Am I expecting to much??

[DiscoBaz]

Hi All, just got my 200tdi disco back from the workshop after spending a small fortune on it:( Had the head shaved and valves ground after the head gasket blew after getting it to hot up at Bribie a while ago, also had the radiator rodded to be safe, injector pump was rebuilt due to it seeping diesel and the timing belt + pullies were replaced as they were due. The car seems to run a lot quieter now and it dosnt blow the black smoke anymore:D The disco has 385,000 on the clock so i suspect it was due for some major work sooner or later. After having now driven it for some 300 odd ks i have noticed it is leaking oil from around the tapet cover and the water pump where it bolts on, as well there is a slight dampness of diesel under the fuel injector pump that was rebuilt. Is this all to be expected or should it be that after all the work it should not leak at all?? I was kind of hoping for some increase in power with the injector pump being rebuilt though the car seems to be as slugish as before on initial take of.
Any thoughts on this matter from people who are more knollegable than myself would be greatly appreciated thanks in advance:)
DiscoBaz

[Peppercorn]

What sort of sump pressure does it have? The oil leaks sound a bit premature to me unless the Tappet cover has been done up too tight, but that does'nt explain the water pump.

It sounds to me like you may have a bit too high sump pressure? If so you may have new piston rings as your next job??

[DiscoBaz]

Thanks peppercorn does checking the sump pressure require specialist tools? And what would be fine and what is to high pressure? Dosn't sound good though:( I hope like hell its something else:)

[justinc]

Injector pump leaks can be from delivery valves at the rear of the pump, where the pipes to the injectors screw on. I have had a few leak in the past when refitting pumps. They have to be quite tight and sometimes the seat on the valve and the ball flare on the pipe don't quite match and they need a nip up to reseal. They make quite a mess when they leak though:(
The rocker cover leak, could be the old gasket was reused? It may have gone hard and require replacement, Or as previously stated may be just installed too tight. The water pump, is it leaking wtaer? or oil from around the front timing case joint? And as for the sluggishness, I would say that the pump may well have been tweaked beforehand,(Hence the black smoke) and when the diesel pump shop set them up they are set back to factory specs, which for a 200Tdi is pretty woeful:( The fact it is quieter also could point to the timing being slightly retarded, which will make it very underpowered and 'flat'. A quiet Tdi is usually a retarded Tdi. OR, it could be that the valve clearances were astronomical and they are now correct...
Either way, I would take it back at first opportunity and show the shop these leaks, and ask if they can do a performance tweak to regain some more go out of it. The 200Tdi runs 11Psi ex factory, and is quite capable of 15 to 16 psi with minor wastegate and pump mods:twisted:
They are a good honest engine and second to the Isuzu 4BD1 I reckon for appeal.:)
JC

[long stroke]

Hi Justin:) any idea where i could get my pump tweeked? (200tdi)
Can you do it your self?
Sorry about the hijack:angel:

TIM.

[justinc]

Hi Justin:) any idea where i could get my pump tweeked? (200tdi)
Can you do it your self?
Sorry about the hijack:angel:

TIM.

Hi Tim, check out IanP's (leo109) 'Thermoguard instruments' web pages he has a tuning guide for the 300Tdi, same pump basically and wastegate adjustments are easier on the 200Tdi as you can actually get to the wastegate to adjust it:D

JC

[long stroke]

Hi Tim, check out IanP's (leo109) 'Thermoguard instruments' web pages he has a tuning guide for the 300Tdi, same pump basically and wastegate adjustments are easier on the 200Tdi as you can actually get to the wastegate to adjust it:D

JC

Thanks justin:thumbsup:
Great sight!! credit to you leo109:)

CHEERS TIM.

[Peppercorn]

Sorry mate, I didn't make myself very clear.

All engines have sump pressure. When a piston travels up for compression, it requires the piston rings to seal against the cylinder wall so that all the gases are captured for the explosion. this is true for petrol or diesel.

Sump pressure occurs when the piston rings allow the compressed gases to pass by between the rings and the cylinder wall and then entering the sump area. This is called "Blow By".
Every engine has a small portion of blow by, even new ones. As an engine ages the "blow by" can increase.
The way this "blow by" is tackled is by fitting a hose from the intake manifold (on a non turbo engine) because the vacuum in that manifold sucks the gases and excess pressure that has been created because of the "blow by". On your engine I think you'll find a pipe which attaches to the vacuum pump and to the tappet cover.

The problem starts to become bad when the "blow by" becomes so bad that it pressurizes the sump over and above what the vacuum can handle. This problem basically means that there is more + pressure in the sump and when it builds up enough it starts to force oil out of all the gaskets and seals!

This problem can only be solved by replacing the worn rings!

The way you can test how bad the "blow by" is is by removing the oil filler cap while the engine is idling. There will always be some + pressure that will come out of there. But if it is really bad you'll know it or an experienced friend will.
I hope this helps you understand?

[justinc]

Sorry mate, I didn't make myself very clear.

All engines have sump pressure. When a piston travels up for compression, it requires the piston rings to seal against the cylinder wall so that all the gases are captured for the explosion. this is true for petrol or diesel.

Sump pressure occurs when the piston rings allow the compressed gases to pass by between the rings and the cylinder wall and then entering the sump area. This is called "Blow By".
Every engine has a small portion of blow by, even new ones. As an engine ages the "blow by" can increase.
The way this "blow by" is tackled is by fitting a hose from the intake manifold (on a non turbo engine) because the vacuum in that manifold sucks the gases and excess pressure that has been created because of the "blow by". On your engine I think you'll find a pipe which attaches to the vacuum pump and to the tappet cover.
The problem starts to become bad when the "blow by" becomes so bad that it pressurizes the sump over and above what the vacuum can handle. This problem basically means that there is more + pressure in the sump and when it builds up enough it starts to force oil out of all the gaskets and seals!

This problem can only be solved by replacing the worn rings!

The way you can test how bad the "blow by" is is by removing the oil filler cap while the engine is idling. There will always be some + pressure that will come out of there. But if it is really bad you'll know it or an experienced friend will.
I hope this helps you understand?

Not on a Tdi, these use the speed of the intake air passing a specially shaped fitting in the intake pipe to the turbo that generates a low pressure via bernoullis principle. This is where the 'positive' crankcase ventilation comes from in these engines. It also allows a fair bit of oil mist to circulate through the intake system as the factory seperator on the rocker cover is pretty useless at preventing this, a Provent is a good addition to a Tdi.

Excessive blowby on a Tdi is easy to check, at idle with a warm/ hot engine, remove the filler cap and let it sit on top of it's position while the engine is idling. It will generally flap up and down very slightly, but if it jumps around and you witness smoke or fumes and oil droplets then it isn't a good sign. Also, huge leaks from rear main and front crank seals are a give away sign.

JC

[Peppercorn]

Thanks for that JC. I was speaking generally as I hav'nt had much to do with the TDI diesel at this point in time.

I'll have to check this out.

[DiscoBaz]

Thanks for the advice tonight, I'll try the filler cap test tomorrow and let you know the results. I,m showing my ignorance now but what is a "Provent"? Is it like the catch can things they sell at the spare parts shops?

[mike 90 RR]

what is a "Provent"? Is it like the catch can things they sell at the spare parts shops?

I did a search for you and came up with this

http://www.cfpfilters.com/downloads/product_info/Mann/provent.pdf

Mike

:)

[abaddonxi]

Thanks for the advice tonight, I'll try the filler cap test tomorrow and let you know the results. I,m showing my ignorance now but what is a "Provent"? Is it like the catch can things they sell at the spare parts shops?

Manufactured by Mann-Hummel, search here for Provent, lots of threads.

You can buy them from Sydney Filter Services -
Sydney Filter Services supply filters for trucks. (http://www.sydneyfilters.com.au/)

A bit out of your way.

Edit: And here's the Mann-Hummel page -
http://www.mann-hummel.com/industrialfilters/index.html?iKeys=22.1.252.1.1&cScr=75&v_pbid=19&v_pid01=44

Cheers
Simon

[jmkoffice]

Hi All, just got my 200tdi disco back from the workshop after spending a small fortune on it:( Had the head shaved and valves ground after the head gasket blew after getting it to hot up at Bribie a while ago, also had the radiator rodded to be safe, injector pump was rebuilt due to it seeping diesel and the timing belt + pullies were replaced as they were due. The car seems to run a lot quieter now and it dosnt blow the black smoke anymore:D The disco has 385,000 on the clock so i suspect it was due for some major work sooner or later. After having now driven it for some 300 odd ks i have noticed it is leaking oil from around the tapet cover and the water pump where it bolts on, as well there is a slight dampness of diesel under the fuel injector pump that was rebuilt. Is this all to be expected or should it be that after all the work it should not leak at all?? I was kind of hoping for some increase in power with the injector pump being rebuilt though the car seems to be as slugish as before on initial take of.
Any thoughts on this matter from people who are more knollegable than myself would be greatly appreciated thanks in advance:)
DiscoBaz
DiscoBaz, you spent good money having a workshop do work for you. If the job has not been completed properly i.e. oil and fuel leaks where parts were removed and replaced for the work performed - take it back and have them rectify it under warranty. Don't tolerate poor workmanship, this applies to anything you pay for.

Cheers

[DiscoBaz]

Thanks for the help with the provent guys much appreciated, looks like a great idea but might have to wait a while after just dishing out for the last lot of work but I'll be puting it on my "needs" list:) I did an oil change on it today and checked the leaks, on closer inspection it appears only to be seeping at the tapet cover and the injector pump is leaking where the lines connect at the back, as you said justinc:). I did the oil cap test as well, when undone it bounces up and down a little but nothing drastic, I couldnt see any oil or smoke coming out when running. When I turned the engine off and then removed the cap I could see some whispy whitish smoke in the tapet cover? I called the mechanic today and explained the situation and he happily agreed to have a look at it tomorrow:) And yes I think I'll be finding out how much the pump tweek will be!! Thanks for ALL the help and comments it has helped heaps today:):)

[DiscoBaz]

just thought Id let you know the mechanic fixed the leak at the back of the injector pump yesterday and looks as though he has fixed the leaks at the tapet cover there is however the slightest weep of oil at 2 of the injectors. While poking around I discovered that the viscous fan is not working properly and olso one of the thermal fans was not working either:( the thermal was an easy fix after dismanteling it and discovering that one of the brushes was sticking, all fixed now:) the viscous fan will be a trip to the wreckers in a hunt for a xe-xf replacement and a little time to trim the blades down. Oh it never rains it pours:/

[justinc]

just thought Id let you know the mechanic fixed the leak at the back of the injector pump yesterday and looks as though he has fixed the leaks at the tapet cover there is however the slightest weep of oil at 2 of the injectors. While poking around I discovered that the viscous fan is not working properly and olso one of the thermal fans was not working either:( the thermal was an easy fix after dismanteling it and discovering that one of the brushes was sticking, all fixed now:) the viscous fan will be a trip to the wreckers in a hunt for a xe-xf replacement and a little time to trim the blades down. Oh it never rains it pours:/

Discobaz, This works well up in QLD, but I wouldn't do the cut down XE XF fan replacement trick in mild temps, as the viscous clutch is designed to work with the large diameter falcon fan, with the small Tdi one it will hardly slip at all. This will lead to power sapping on hills etc, as the fan will be turning when not really required. It is however a good alternative because it is 1) cheap and easy to get, and 2) will draw air in hot temps really well.
BTW, don't try any fuel tweaking without a pyrometer!
JC