Tomcat Style Build

[jazzaD1]

gday,
i have a 1984 range rover that im planning on turning into a bowler tomcat style machine, that is a space frame type roll cage on the rangies 100" chassis

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/1459.jpg

i want to use it to go off road racing in the mallee shield, and for fun 4 wheeling on occasion

does anyone have any advice about tackling this project and if it would be ridiculously difficult to road register it at some point (even club rego)

i was originally thinking of bobtailing the rangie to save weight and putting a 350 chev and 80 series axles in it

now im considering the tomcat build as they look great, are very strong and light, and very stable at high speed due to the lower centre of gravity, plus with a chev v8 in it (max 6000cc for the class) it will be pretty quick (a production bowler wildcat has roughly 300hp, not too hard to coax from a 350)

http://www.tomcatmotorsport.co.uk/forsale/advert17.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/1460.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/1461.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/08/1014.jpg
dont get me wrong i know it wont be in the same league as a newer wildcat (spaceframe chassis etc) but i reckon it would be a heap of fun

ive got a jd2 bender on order at the moment and ive heard 2" CDS tube is roughly $25 a metre

the fibreglass panels might be a struggle, especially the air scoop to the rear mounted radiator but it will certainly be alot lighter and more agile than a range rover

tell me what you think guys

the attachment is a completed cage primed up, this guy bought his skeleton from bowler but it couldnt be that difficult to mock something similar up

[discokid]

My rear hoop is a similiar shape to the picture on my racer.

As it doesnt fit into any of CAMs standard rear hoop designs I had to get in re engineered and homoligated. The cost of that alone put me off ever doing another.

Id also check specifications of the square tube used etc as its all governed by CAMs and no the UK standard.

[jazzaD1]

My rear hoop is a similiar shape to the picture on my racer.

As it doesnt fit into any of CAMs standard rear hoop designs I had to get in re engineered and homoligated. The cost of that alone put me off ever doing another.

Id also check specifications of the square tube used etc as its all governed by CAMs and no the UK standard.


thanks discokid, what would be the way around the engineering etc, i have no problems modifying the design, like i said, tomcat 'style' build, if i have to change things to make it cams legal, no worries

[mcrover]

Yeah I was going to say get as much info from CAMS now and make sure you understand it 100%.

The consulting engineers are normally pretty happy to explain things and answer dumb questions :eek:

The fibre glass work is pretty simple once you get into it, just make the panels out of ply, plastasine and wax (the plug) first and make a shell and fill it in.

If you want to be really clever you can make a mould from the plug and then you have an endless supply of replacement panels....which you will most likely need a few of :D

[jazzaD1]

cool the fibreglass thing doesnt seem so daunting now, ive downloaded the cams manual, and have a hard copy on the way

ill be joining the bendigo car club (closest one that caters for off road racing) and they have a cams representative, he will be the bloke to ask i reckon

[Hay Ewe]

Why try to build your own space frame and fit it to a chassis when you can buy the space frame and appropriate attaching brackets from Tomcat?
Tomcat Motorsport - Home Page (http://www.tomcatmotorsport.co.uk)

All the hard work is done, they have exported to Australia according to the their website.
Also, if the tube is $25 a meter, and you make a few mistakes, it might not take too long to get to the point where purchase of an new frame is worth it.

They must have some kind of approval because in the UK the can be considered a rebodied vehicle and as you are goign to be using an exisitng range rover and therefore the chassie, wouldn't that be the same.

There is a mob in Brisbane way doing the same with Hummers, they take a Nissan Patrol, remove the body, install their look-a-like hummer body but because its a re-bodied Patrol, there are not too many difficulties. these can be purchased as a kit as well.

I think that I read some where that the TomCat frame is FIA approved, indeed there was one in the 2009 Dakar. Whilst CAMS is not the FIA, I would imagine that if it meets FIA it would meet CAMS.

there is also this mob North Off Road Vehicle Developments - Design & Manufacture of Competition Vehicles, Roll Cages & 4x4 Accessories (http://www.northoffroad.co.uk/) that have thier own space frame that uses freelander style panels

I look forward to following this thread as I have similar ideas at the moment as well......

Hay Ewe

[discokid]

Yes if it meets FIA regs you can get it passed by CAMS thats what I had to do

Im just pointing out costs as I was supprised at what the total cost of my cage inc homoligation was when all said and done. Let alone building a whole car

Best place to start is the CAMs regs for extreme 4wd (old class 8)

[jazzaD1]

Why try to build your own space frame and fit it to a chassis when you can buy the space frame and appropriate attaching brackets from Tomcat?
Tomcat Motorsport - Home Page (http://www.tomcatmotorsport.co.uk)


i have considered that, it would be a hell of a lot easier but i was concerned about shipping costs and taxes etc

does anyone have a rough idea on the cost of shipping the cage from the UK to Australia?

[Hay Ewe]

No, but it too was something that I considered.
There are a number of options, and as they (Tomcat Motorsport) have sent them places, they may have prefered or recomended shippers.

I am sure that there are shippers who wait for enough 'stuff' to fill a container and then send it. I think that they are called 'Consolodated'

Thinking about it, I think that the next path to investigate would be calling an international moving company (e.g. Wridgways?) (the type of companies that people use when they emmigrate) and see what they offer.

When I moved from the UK in 2002 It cost me about GBP250 from memory. We boxed everything up, they picked it up there and delivered to an adress in Brisbane. It worked on Volume but as you space frame is lots of space, it might be different.

This is what I would be doing if I was in a position right now to be looking at this project.
Hay Ewe

[jazzaD1]

thanks for that, ive just sent an email to tomcat motorsports and should find out soon
250GBP is not bad, i know a whole car is about $2500AUD from japan but i think that is 1 car per container rates

[Hay Ewe]

Any News from Tomcat motorsports?
Hay Ewe

[jazzaD1]

yeah, i heard back, he said they have only sold one tomcat to an australian and it went to sydney so that is all he knew about, rough cost was 2000 GBP, bit rich i reckon

my plans have changed anyway due to some common sense, for my first season of racing at least i am going to use the range rover as it is body wise, might make some fibreglass copies of the bonnet, tailgate, and roof and make polycarbonate windows to save weight

does anyone else have any weight saving tips?

it will be kept at near standard height, with maybe a rear radius arm conversion to aid stability at speed

the class i will be racing in allows a capacity of 6000cc or less, if you use forced induction, you must multiply your capacity by 1.7, so the 3.5 just scrapes in under forced induction rules (calculated capacity 5950cc)

i was originally considering an m90 supercharger to begin with but would rather do something different by setting up a remote mount turbo placed up into the floor of the rangie behind the passenger seat, with a side air intake (maybe a panel pre filter to protect from dust)

i will be converting it to megasquirt with EDIS coil packs as i have done in my disco, much better for tuning than carbies and a distributor,

i am also trying to work out how to mount the radiator in the back also, with a ducted inlet and exhaust for the air passing through the radiator as well as a set of thermo fans

they call the class extreme 4wd so i may as well do something far from normal

i am attempting to get the beast roadworthy so i can register it before i transform it, so it is not totally illegal to drive out to the local national park or whatever, and id avoid a $550 fine for unregistered driving.

the idea behind the turbo, is to give the 4wd a bit more poke but not enough to send me hurtling into the nearest tree whilie im still learning how to race properly, a 350 chev would be more likely to see me rolled over etc in my first season

if anyone else has any suggestions about the racer id be glad to hear it

[V8Landy]

To save weight cut it into a ute. Put an external cage and twin turbo it.:twisted:

[jazzaD1]

i would but tray back vehicles are not allowed for safety reasons, i could put a fibreglass tub on the back but they look terrible i reckon

[Hay Ewe]

I think that is a much better idea, if it gets trashed then there is less outlay to cry over.....

With better and tuned suspension set up it is possible to go faster than bigger engines because you are smoother and more / better contact with the ground.

personally, the thought of all the effort to put in a big engine does not appeal due to the volumetric size and the brackets, mounts etc, me, I would stick withe the 3.5 V8, overhaul it, tune it, twin turbos and intercoolers.

super chargers require power from the engine to run and you have to mount them some where, which is extra weight, so do turbos, but its sort of using wasted energy and then passing the air through intercoolers will increase the volume of the air intake system

also you need to improve your engine air filtration, maximum air availibity with as much filtration as you can (dont use K&N). the air box can never be too big.

the remote turbos sound like a good idea but will the weight of the ducting brackets etc make it worth while from a weight saving exercise?

do every thing you can to save weight, weight is only useful on road rollers. remove glass, sound proofing radio system, un-needed electrical wires. fibre glass type panels will be good. interior stuff that does not need to be there, rear seat.

they say that vehicle balance is important too

you are going to keep the body standard at the moment, me, I would give a really good clean and polish up, with the engine mods above and running gear it could turn out in to quite a sleeper that in town looks as though it never goes off road. :cool:

does that give some ideas to start with?

[Hay Ewe]

oh yeah, 2000GBP, that must have been for a complete vehicle,
yeah a bit steep considering

[Hay Ewe]

Oh yeah, and another, a 350Chev is likely to be heavier than the 3.5 V8 so will increase the difference between axle loads front and rear making it harder to balance, to get a better balance you would need to move the engine aft, towards the center of the vehicle and that would bring all problems.

also, wil be heavier so the front suspention system will require more work, more cost, more tuning due to the extra weight, I imagine that it would be harder to steer due at speed, needing to change the dirrection of all that inertia.

you could improve the balance by carrying spare wheels in the aft

Hay Ewe - trying to work but thinking about this

[Hay Ewe]

Hay there,
how is your progress going?
how did you go with the tubo matching and placement?
Interested in teh radiator set up as well
any photo's?

Hay Ewe

[badnews]

hmm well i come from derbyshire and know drew bowler and have built a few tomcat style cars in the past with a friend dave horrabin and he won the welsh hill rally in one. i don't get it over here the laws are stupid in the uk there is no problem at all to build such a car and they are a lot less trouble than you'd imagen. i would love to build another over here but as it will be a complete arse to get it registerd i won't bother. the only way round it is to build a 90 style but then you have the cage issue's all over again. in the uk all you need in a sva test to register this kind of car thats if you want it on a q plate. all the ones we did kept there oringal ID plates and took it for the mot (saftey cert) and away you went as long as it was up to spec. australian laws suck big time for the moded car also the import laws are just as bad all this to save the aussie car market from competion meaning that cars here are behind the times in so many ways including safety due to the goverment stoping the competion importing far better cars. so no competion 1 airbag 2 if you are lucky :(:(

[badnews]

a lot of these ran rear mounted engines requireing the axles to be fliped over and new mounts welded in palce. the weight moved back makes them awsome to drive and heaps better for comp safari

[Slunnie]

Oh yeah, and another, a 350Chev is likely to be heavier than the 3.5 V8 so will increase the difference between axle loads front and rear making it harder to balance, to get a better balance you would need to move the engine aft, towards the center of the vehicle and that would bring all problems.
The LS1 is aluminium.



I tend to think that a 350 will be more drivable that a turbo setup and less likely to send you into a tree as the engine is responsive and power is a given rather than coming on and off depending on the conditions. Its also a lot simpler, there are plenty of upgrades for down the track and there are heaps around.