Engine Cover Bolt Issue

[DiscoStew]

Just had the car serviced on Tuesday and this afternoon the TD5 decided it didn't need coolant anymore so emptied it all out, I believe from the overflow outlet as it is all over the driver's side wheel arch and under the engine.

I couldn't find any broken hoses but did find a bolt (in picture) that looked like it is not sitting properly in place and in fact can be jiggled about but not actually removed. This bolt is on the driver's side and holds the engine cover in place.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/1269.jpg
Called RACQ and they confirm that this bolt is installed incorrectly, looks like a spring washer has been used instead of a flat washer. He could not remove it without breaking the engine cover so could not see what sort of damage has been done. His conclusion is that it is impossible (read highly unlikely) that anything could have caused this damage except mechanic's error. I am not sure what the connection between the bolt and the coolant is, I guess something to do with pressure issues, but RACQ were quite convinced that this is the root cause.

Before I contact the mechanic tomorrow and say "you stuffed it, you fix it" does anyone think there are other possible causes like something going bang inside the engine block breaking the bolt off?

This is a major pain as I had a big weekend coming up with GCLRO down at Crystal Creek this weekend and I doubt that this will get remedied in time. Bad enough that I missed the club meeting tonight.:mad:

The picture below is an engine bolt on the passenger side. Notice it does not use a spring washer.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/1270.jpg

[crump]

dunno about the Disco but on the TD5 Defender all those bolts do is hold on the acoustic cover.

[foz.in.oz]

As far as I can make out from your pictures the bolt you are refering to holds the acoustic (plastic) cover in place. This bolts into a metal bracket and unless it's about 4" long and has punctured your cylinder head there should be no connection between this and losing coolant. Behind this cover on the drivers side however there is the cooling/heat exchanger for the fuel. May be something has let go here.

[Graeme]

The nut is supposed to be encapsulated/welded to the fuel cooler bracket but it breaks loose. I used an angle grinder to cut off the bolt head on mine.

[DiscoStew]

dunno about the Disco but on the TD5 Defender all those bolts do is hold on the acoustic cover.

That's what I thought but the RACQ guy thought otherwise. I suspect you are right but because he couldn't get the cover off he couldn't really do any diagnosis, apparently. Or maybe he became so focussed on that he didn't look elsewhere.

I am assuming that given it is obvious that the coolant was expelled externally then it is unlikely to be the dreaded head gasket issue?

[scarry]

Doesnt sound good to me.....if coolant is blown out overflow

Did they replace the coolent on the service,maybe systm was not bled correctly:(
Was the service done by LR specialists,if not dont go back,if so we all need to know.

[Tombie]

Fuel cooler hides under that side....

[BigJon]

If you undo all the other ounting bolts for the acoustic cover you should be able to work the cover off over the head of the bolt (there is a rubber washer that the bolt head will pull through). Then you can see what needs doing to fix the problem.

[Bundalene]

Fuel cooler hides under that side....

Tombie, you give a lot of information in most of your replies with so few words. Allows heaps of lateral thinking without trying to pinpoint any unknown solutions. Keep it up !!!!! :cool::cool:

Erich

[dane h]

had a similar experience with my td5. That bolt is into a caged nut. They are ridiculously expensive and if like mine broken by the dealer at service time. Something like $35 for a nut if its a genuine part! The difficulty in welding the thing in place is all the rest of the plumbing adjacent ... almost impossible.

I now operate with these loose as yours. no impact and cover has stayed in place for the past 50,000k with no problems

doesn't help your coolant loss though

[trev]

Absolutely no connection with coolant loss.As said,only an acoustic cover.
The drivers side bolt is notorious for shearing the welded nut off.
You can remove the cover over the bolt head by prising around it.As said it is inside a rubber grommit which can be popped out without breaking the cover.
There are 2 other bolts holding it in place, but a cheap fix is to simply leave the bolt out and thread a cable tie through the hole and tightening it up.
If you need to remove the cover just cut it off.
Your coolant loss problem lies elsewhere.

Trev.

[Tombie]

Tombie, you give a lot of information in most of your replies with so few words. Allows heaps of lateral thinking without trying to pinpoint any unknown solutions. Keep it up !!!!! :cool::cool:

Erich

Giving an Exact diagnosis is impossible at this point, but I try to promote what youre saying!!!

Heres a pic.....
http://gallery.me.com/rovertech/100145/IMG_0081/web.jpg
Where the plastic clip is that's holding the black plastic tubing.. Look directly right of that, its the nut the bolt threads into.

Directly below that area, the metal cylinder you see is the Fuel Cooler...
The end seals (O'rings) often leak.... I'd bet thats your coolant leak...

It hides under the inlet manifold as seen in this pic below:
http://gallery.me.com/rovertech/100145/IMG_0077/web.jpg

[DiscoStew]

Doesnt sound good to me.....if coolant is blown out overflow

Did they replace the coolent on the service,maybe systm was not bled correctly:(
Was the service done by LR specialists,if not dont go back,if so we all need to know.

Sorry for the delay in responding but I lost access to the PC for a while, thanks for your replies.

The coolant was the only thing they didn't change:) oh the irony

They also put on a new fuel block. As I am new to this stuff I am not sure if this is located near the fuel cooler, which was mentioned by Tombie.

Yes they are LR specialists which is why I travel a bit to get to them. They come highly recommended by many on this forum and I am not here to bag them. As often said, anyone can have a bad day, it will be how they respond that counts. Timing is annoying as I really want the car for the weekend.

So far the consensus is no connection between bolt and coolant which doesn't surprise me. Could be just a coincidence. The only other clue I have is that the cap to the coolant was loose so perhaps when they checked it to see if it needed changing they didn't put it back on properly but in that case I would expect a lot more splashing around the engine bay at that level. Also, as I wasn't home when this happened and the neighbour came over to check it out with my wife he may have fiddled with it.

[Tombie]

Sorry for the delay in responding but I lost access to the PC for a while, thanks for your replies.

The coolant was the only thing they didn't change:) oh the irony

They also put on a new fuel block. As I am new to this stuff I am not sure if this is located near the fuel cooler, which was mentioned by Tombie.


So far the consensus is no connection between bolt and coolant which doesn't surprise me. Could be just a coincidence. The only other clue I have is that the cap to the coolant was loose so perhaps when they checked it to see if it needed changing they didn't put it back on properly but in that case I would expect a lot more splashing around the engine bay at that level. Also, as I wasn't home when this happened and the neighbour came over to check it out with my wife he may have fiddled with it.

The Fuel Reg is just behind the back of the cooler, and the end of the cooler is susceptible to cracking back there...

Its possible, that the replacement triggered an aged cooler hose / fitting to crack or fail.

[crump]

If you undo all the other ounting bolts for the acoustic cover you should be able to work the cover off over the head of the bolt (there is a rubber washer that the bolt head will pull through). Then you can see what needs doing to fix the problem.
and then dont bother putting the cover back on again, as it all it does is hide things.

[DiscoStew]

Been back to mechanics.

Yes, as we all thought/knew, that bolt had nothing to do with the problem so minus one point for RACQ (but they get it back for towing my car to Redcliffe from Ferny Grove). $20 for a new nut and bracket.

The fine folks at the mechanics spent some serious energy trying to find the problem as quickly as possible even though even Blind Freddy could see that nothing they did at the service could cause this problem. So full points to them for that. Pressure test held steady at 20lbs, no leaks were found anywhere. Problem has not reoccurred. Conclusion is that the only thing that they cannot test is the coolant reservoir cap so it probably had a malfunctioning valve, maybe triggered when they checked the coolant during the service. This is apparently consistent with the coolant escaping via the overflow nozzle. Replaced cap for $50 and will now keep an eye on it.

If I gave the impression that I had lost confidence in the mechanic then I apologise to them and others, as I had not. I did not trust my own instincts enough to ignore the RACQ advice when I wrote the post. I was confident that even if they had caused the problem they would have fixed it and they responded better than I could have expected.

[davros]

If it blew the colant out the cap from over-pressure my bet is on the head gasket... or perhaps a failed radiator cap. Usually you will have noticed some slow coolant loss between services though. :(

[davros]

Have a look where the overflow is directed, mine left coolant stains on the side of the acoustic cover.

Dave

[scarry]

Those LR specialists you went to are great,i go to them as well:)

Its worth the drive

[DiscoStew]

If it blew the colant out the cap from over-pressure my bet is on the head gasket... or perhaps a failed radiator cap. Usually you will have noticed some slow coolant loss between services though. :(
While the head gasket has not been ruled out the complete lack of a drop in pressure seems to decrease the chances of that being the problem. There were two experienced LR specialists working on this problem and we did discuss the possibility of the head gasket but their instinct was the "radiator" cap was the likely culprit.

It is not my =daily driver and in fact I hadn't driven it for a while. My wife has now informed me that she has noticed extra fluid on the ground but just thought it was air conditioning condensation. I will be more rigorous in checking coolant levels between services. I have just strapped a 20l container of water into the cargo area just in case:D


Have a look where the overflow is directed, mine left coolant stains on the side of the acoustic cover.Dave

Yes it almost certainly was expelled via the overflow. The spray is localised to that area.


Those LR specialists you went to are great,i go to them as well:)

Its worth the drive

Yes I agree but three times in one week starts to stretch the bosses' patience (both the one at home and the one at work). I am certainly not complaining about the 2 man hours of effort that they put in this morning for free. The dealer would have charged me $140 per hour for that and probably convince me that it was the head gasket just so it looked like they found something.

[stevo]

In relation to the bolt on the right hand side, mine failed awhile back bolt would not undo just spin, anyway finally got it off and went to repco to get a "speedy nut" I think that is what they are called, a U shaped peice of metal with a thread on one side just slides over the bracket and $4 for two.