snowy mountains video

[jimbo110]

Landrover series 1 promo video of the snowy mountains project, uploaded from one of my very old VHS tapes.

YouTube - Snowy mountain project landrover promotional film (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_QwzDyL4-g)

[UncleHo]

G'day Jimbo110 :)

Have you thought to make a copy of this available to our Administrator "Incisor" as he is/was compiling a DVD of the 60th and other early Landrover history:)

cheers

[bussy1963]

i have a dvd of snowyhydro scheme called "operation adaminaby" if anyone is interested. Let me know

[pohm66]

The vid mentions that LRs were soon to be under licence here...did it actually happen and who made them???

or did the Tojos start infiltrating due to parts supply issues?

[101RRS]

CKD models were assembled by the Pressed Metal Company in Sydney.

Garry

[UncleHo]

G'day Folks :)

Yes, they were built up from CKD kits at Pressed Metal Corp (PMC) in Enfield Sydney, it was a wholly owned subsiduary of BMC and Later Leyland Australia, which went on to become JRA Jaguar Rover Australia, they also built bus and truck bodies on BMC Austin, Morris,and Leyland chassis you have probably travelled in a PMC bodied bus at some time or the other, they also bodied rail motors in the 50's/60's :)


Annand & Thompson also imported Landrover vehicles direct from UK for many years


cheers

[ivery819]

G'day Folks :)
Pressed Metal Corp (PMC) in Enfield Sydney, it was a wholly owned subsiduary of BMC

As I understand the situation (in about 1948) PMC was originally part of the Larke Neave and Carter Group as was Grenville Motors and Larke Hoskins. They, together with BMC Australia had many Directors in common until the mid to late 1950's and were essentially owned by two families.

[Rangier Rover]

If you go to the snowy visitor centre they seem to harp on about the Toyotas that replaced the series one Land Rover that were there before any roads. :mad: The truth has been masked:angrylock:
The Snowy is how the Rovers made it here in the first place. Also why three series 1s were purchased on this farm. Two are still here.


Tony

[101 Ron]

I have some where a Wheels Magazine of 1956.
A article in it tests the landrover.
They went to a depot and selected one from a Hundred in the holding yard and test drove it on the roads of the time around the snowy mountain irrigation scheme.
No mention of Toyota then !
I also have old photos in a book and other than landrovers , Dodge power wagon were used extensively.
The trucks in the area were mostly Two wheel drive commercial trucks of the time, chained together like a train in convoy in snow conditions.
Surprisingly I find little use of WW11 ex army vehicles......maybe they were still being used by the army at the time.
I understand the snowy project finished in 1974.
Toyota's could only have been used in any sort of numbers after 1970 as the numbers imported before then was low.

[ivery819]

MOVED TO HERE (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/72705-snowy-mountains-video-2.html#post910114)

[101 Ron]

Another interesting thing is the Toyota FQ15 4x4 and the 6x6 version.
The FQ15 is a 3/4 to 1 ton vehicle the first of which were imported in 1958 and a copy of the post war Dodge M37 ( Miltiary version of the power wagon)
Production stopped about 1970.
It was totally infearer to the vehicles it was copied from.
Four speed transmission with no low range, poor springs etc.
The strong point of this vehicle was the Toyota F110 motor which is a near copy of the chev blue flame.
The thing I am getting at around the time of the snowys construction toyota trucks could have been much better and thats why you dont see any to day.
The Dodge power wagon with two speed transfer and long travel springs was used.
The one thing which I also find with the very early Jap stuff is good build quailty and body constrution just like today and they still cant build a good leaf spring

[ivery819]

IIRC
The first 13 Landcruisers were imported in 1958 by Les Theiss who was a contractor on the Snowy Scheme. They went on general sale in 1959.
This meant that for at least 10 years the Authority used Land Rovers and NOT Land Cruisers. As far as I'm aware the actual Snowy Mountains Authority ( as opposed to their contractors) never had more than a few ( if any ) Landcruisers right up until the end of the construction phase (early 70's).

The Dodge power wagons were a mighty vehicle and used by the original surveyors and hydrographers and stream monitors. They carried a ton of equipment (survey,measurement and camping) into remote mountain areas long before there were any roads. The Land Rovers didn't have sufficient payload.
Some of the other vehicles used were:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/1220.jpg
1949 One of the first seven
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/1221.jpg
Eucumbene Dam site 1958 ___2 months before completion
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/1222.jpg
The mighty Antar Jan 1954 near Munyang
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/1223.jpg
An Austin 4X4 descending into Tumut 1 c1953
(These are frequently incorrectly identified as Dodges

You'll notice

NOT A BLOODY TOYOTA IN SIGHT

[jimbo110]

G'day Jimbo110 :)

Have you thought to make a copy of this available to our Administrator "Incisor" as he is/was compiling a DVD of the 60th and other early Landrover history:)

cheers

I have started going through my old videos and digitising them. This was 3 minutes from a 1 hour video I borrowed from the local landrover club in the mid 90's. Lots of series 1 stuff and the change to series 11's. From memory I also have some of the promo films of the early Camel Trophy events, including the Aussie event, but I do remember the sound is not that flash on some of them, and they are not that long like the later, '87 on productions. If Dave wants them I have no problem processing them onto DVD and posting them over:D. You tube has reduced the quality of this one, the original I have is quite clear, like watching an old movie.;)

[jimbo110]

For those interested in Dam building at about the same time over here, this is a very good watch:

These New Zealanders - TVNZ ondemand (http://tvnzondemand.co.nz/content/these_new_zealanders_benmore/ondemand_video_skin)

I was born in Otematata a few years after this film was done as Dad worked on the Dams:D

[pohm66]

hey this is turning into a good history lesson.:).. just what we need to know if the Tojo guys want to get into a debating match....

Just a shame that from the great start LR weren't able to recognise / capitalise on the head start they had here in Oz.:(

Had heard that Theiss brought the first Tojos for the Snowy Scheme but didn't realise the timeline and numbers involved.

Is it true that Theiss went to Toyotas because of parts supply issues????

Paul

[ivery819]

Theiss went to Toyotas as part of his more grandiose plans to set up the National Franchise for Toyotas. He just happened to have some contracts on the Snowy at the time. As far as I'm aware the trumped up parts issue was part of a dis-information campaign that came later. So was the story that he especially imported Land Cruisers for use on the Snowy. His main ambition was to get in first with the Japanese marque. The main reason that he succeeded and the Toyotas started to sell was that Land Rover started to become subject to the whole BMC/British Leyland debacle. Toyota took over the 4 wheel drive market in Australia because British Leyland didn't want it ! Not because Toyota had the better vehicle.

[V8Ian]

Toyota could't get there 'til Land Rover made the roads for them :tease:

[JDNSW]

Theiss went to Toyotas as part of his more grandiose plans to set up the National Franchise for Toyotas. He just happened to have some contracts on the Snowy at the time. As far as I'm aware the trumped up parts issue was part of a dis-information campaign that came later. So was the story that he especially imported Land Cruisers for use on the Snowy. His main ambition was to get in first with the Japanese marque. The main reason that he succeeded and the Toyotas started to sell was that Land Rover started to become subject to the whole BMC/British Leyland debacle. Toyota took over the 4 wheel drive market in Australia because British Leyland didn't want it ! Not because Toyota had the better vehicle.

What has to be remembered was that until the early seventies, if not later, Rover was unable to produce enough Landrovers to meet demand. This is what gave Toyota and Nissan an opportunity. (Jeep did not count - they were in the dollar area and there was almost no sales to and fro between the dollar and sterling area.) In particular, the re-equipment of the Australian Army with Landrovers to replace the jeeps used up till then, meant that Australia's total allocation of Landrovers went to the army for about six months. Which meant that if you were anyone else, you had to either wait or buy something else.

Rover operated on the assumption that there was nothing else, but Theiss was prepared to take the risk and import Landcruisers. When he started in 1958, they were no real competition (no low range, and numerous other shortcomings), but Toyota was prepared to change rapidly (as a far bigger company than Rover, they were able to) and by the mid sixties when I first used them, they were in many ways competitive. Rover, seeking to meet this problem, merged with Leyland in 1967, apparently unaware that Leyland planned to take over the whole British motor industry. By 1972 it was apparent that the advvantages Rover sought from the merger were not going to happen, and the next ten years were pretty dismal for Landrover.

In the Australian situation, the shortage of Landrovers, in the first half of the sixties in particular, gave Toyota their toehold, and one thing gave them a major advantage - a better power to weight ratio. Add to this a longer wheelbase (121" in the FJ45) and better load carrying (1 ton vs 0.75 ton), and you could ignore the semifloating axles, three speed gearbox, awful steering, awful fuel consumption, terrible carburetters, broken wheel studs, failing alternators, water leaks, dust leaks, upholstery that disintegrated in Australian sunlight, seat frames that collapsed under Western weights etc.

Also helped that unlike with Landrover, the dealer actually tried to sell it to you, and the after sales service really was service. (The company I worked for at the time re-equipped with Landcruisers in 1965, to replace the two wheel drive International 120s and Holden Utes that failed to cut the ice - which in turn had replaced the Landrovers they had decided were too expensive to maintain in about 1962 - I drove a FJ45V from 1965 to early 67 when I was not driving my own S2 later 2a)

John

[UncleHo]

G'day Folks :)

I will add a little more to what JD said, Theiss Bros.was a major contractor on the Snowy Scheme as they were one of a very few that had earthmoving equipment, which they had salvaged from Ex US military bases in the Pacific, first with a borrowed barge, then with an LST, (Landing Ship Tank) as the US military just walked away from their bases at the end of the war, leaving or dumping millions of dollars of gear,from hand tools to bulldozers, Theiss salvaged this equipment(just went from Island to Island and collected it) and that is what made them the leading earthmoving contractors in Aust, most other equipt was hired through C.H.E.P. (Commonwealth Handling Equipment Pool) which was also ex Lend-Lease or Military equipt. in 1957 Les Theiss went to Toyota Japan to try to get the Australian Distributorship of Toyota vehicles in Aust. he succeeded, and part of the deal with the Govt was that for every 1 vehicle brought in 2 vehicles worth of spares had to come in, that is what sold them in Aust, SERVICE, something that BMC/Leyland and Landrover never has been able to come to terms with:( Arnold Glass (Capitol Motors Sydney) took up the Nissan/Datsun franchise, 1959/60 under the same 2 spares for 1 vehicle deal. that effectly killed the British Car in Australia.

Hope that is of some interest

cheers

[Mick_Marsh]

To settle a discussion (not argument) with the boss.
How many Landrovers were used on the Snowy Scheme.
He's a Landcruiser fan.

Oh, and does anyone know where I can get a job?

[easo]

Toyota could't get there 'til Land Rover made the roads for them :tease:


To settle a discussion (not argument) with the boss.
How many Landrovers were used on the Snowy Scheme.
He's a Landcruiser fan.



Just quote him the above line and ask him how many L/C are hoisted on a pole to celebrate their efforts in building those roads.

Easo

[Mick_Marsh]

Will be passing through Keith after easter in the Mercs. Must remember to stop off at the pole and point it out to him.

[copba]

Overlander magazine have been doing little history articles lately, they've done J##p, Toymotor, and LandRover that i've seen.

In the Toymotor one they claim Les Theiss bought 13 Landcruisers in 1958 from B&D motors in Melbourne, who was the importer at the time. Apparently the 13th was a spare parts car. He then went on to become the distributor for QLD, and NSW from 1961.

Funnily enough they forgot to mention that for every 1 Landcruiser there must have been a dozen Rovers used. :(

Toymotor have really latched onto this story of 12 vehicles, which somehow "built the whole Snowy Mountains Scheme".
Just shows the power of advertising, and never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

[fc110]

Knew a surveyor who worked on the Snowy before LRs were invented. Was still an enthusiast for them. Said to me once, "We were really pleased when we got Landrovers", asked why? "The LRs didn't complain about going downhill!" Before any TRACKS, let alone roads, they had a lot of trouble with the horses & the incredible terrain. These were the guys that did the basic topographical work, which led to the roads, the rest is history.

[PAT303]

To settle a discussion (not argument) with the boss.
How many Landrovers were used on the Snowy Scheme.
He's a Landcruiser fan.

Oh, and does anyone know where I can get a job?

1345 LR's,13 LC's. Pat

[PAT303]

If you go to the snowy visitor centre they seem to harp on about the Toyotas that replaced the series one Land Rover that were there before any roads. :mad: The truth has been masked:angrylock:
The Snowy is how the Rovers made it here in the first place. Also why three series 1s were purchased on this farm. Two are still here.


Tony

Toyota put money into the Cooma visitor center and threatened to pull it if photo's of LR's or Jeeps were put up or mentioned in any way.It was home and hosed by the time LC's got there. Pat