Burt - Series IIA 88"

[Jock The Rock]

Gday

Ill start from the start.

Back when I was a little kid (about 10) my old man bought a Landy. A Series III 109" Troopy Diesel. From that moment on I wanted one :) and became hooked.

When I was 12 with the help of my old man and relatives I bought Burt, hes a 88" Series IIA Petrol. I had huge plans for him, but being 12 I didnt have a very big back pocket :( and these plans were just dreams.

In the end he ended up as dads. But last year I felt sorry for him sitting in the paddock, having not been started for a fair while. So I had a good old chat to the old man; and ended up swapping my mountain bike for Burt.

(Dad was in a car accident a couple of years ago and now has fairly stiff joints, the bike had dual suspension so was softer for him to ride)

After much fiddeling and tinkering I had old Burt back to normal, roaring around the paddock. It was only going up a hill that I realised only the front wheel was spinning. After closer scrutiny I found one back axle had snapped. So I posted up here. And luckily Andy-M had a spare diff complete, so I put that in and Burt was away again.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-2-2a/61214-replacing-rear-diff-salisbury.html

Ol' Burt will be an ongoing very very slow restoration project. I dont plan on going back to original original; but Ill stick with the 2.25 Petrol and just do a general clean up panel beat job.

But first question... what year is he?

His VIN is 24305923b

From a few websites Ive been able to find this info:

Model: Land Rover, Series IIA
Body type: Basic or Station wagon
Wheel base: 88in
Engine: petrol
Model years: 1962-1971
Destination: Completely knocked down (CKD), right-hand drive (RHD)
05923 Serial number
B Design: One significant design modification
Suffix used from March 1963 till April 1966

But I wouldnt mind knowing exactly what year he is :) Can someone more knowledgeable than me work it out please :) If you need any photos of anything just say and I can take some tomorrow

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/08/565.jpg

More pics here

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-2-2a/60952-correct-me-if-im-wrong-series-ii.html

Thanks for reading and I hope to keep you posted. Should be done in about 10 years :D

[grill]

hi mate'..
i just read from the Haynes book about the chassis numbering n identification..
its difficult to track what year is it your landy series II, because your Vin number:24305923b in categorize as the 1962 - 1979 years
this is a 8 digit chassis numbering system with suffix letters:
by reading the first, second and the third digits you can indicated the model and spesification:
if the first three digit: 241-354 is a series II models
if the first three digit: 901-965 is a series III models

and the last 5 digits (starting with 00001) indicate teh serial number...
and these 8 digits type identification year have no identification digit of the year model manufacture...

different that the previous year indentification number type:
1948-1949, 1950-1953, 1954-1955, 1955, 1956-1961 they all have the identification of the year model manufacture..
in the 1962 - 1979 year they dont have the identification of the year model manufacture, and after that in 1980 - date years they al have the conventional Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)..

im sorry i cant help you too much mate'..
but i'll lookin for the answer how to identification year model manufacture of the 1962-1979 year...

(source of information from Haynes restoration manual land Rover Series I, II, & III, page 285 - "chassis numbering")

best regards,
daniel prasetyo martopo... :)

[grill]

Hi again,
I have just discussed about your series II landy with my dad (he knows a lot better than me about landy) to track the year of manufacture.
First he was impressed with your sII, and so do I,
According to our observation from some of your photos compare with land rover literatures and manual books that we have, your land rover series II was the 1962 or the 1963 model.

Here are some recognition that we found:
Engine Room:
- The radiator of your sII is the early model (late 1958 - 1963), and it had a year code/number in the upside of the radiator (with circle shape).
- It seems the exhaust have been replaced with the late model sII model (sIIa).
- Did the brake master is a Compression barrel (CB ) type? Because it should be like this model for a SII.
- Charger system should use Generator (dynamo) with regulator voltage in this landy type.
- Carburator should be the solex model/type.
- Timing point at flywheel
See more on the Haynes restoration Manual land rover series I, II, & III (H622), page 167 ERM-14, ERM-15
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/990.jpg
ERM-14


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/991.jpg
ERM-15




Bulkhead/cabin(dashboard):
- the panel, steering wheel, turn switch, push horn at steering wheel on your sII landy indicate that its an early model
for late 1958 untill 1960 push horn at outer column with bracket.
- ventilator mechanism for 1961-sIIa should be like in the book Haynes restoration Manual land rover series I, II, & III (H622), page 250 , picture D-12. (we cant see clearly in your landy)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/992.jpg
D-12

- wiper motor is correct according sI until sII 1964

Body:
- like we saw on the pictures of your landy, your body is sII (not sIIa) so it wont be more than 1965. it can be recognize from the chrome ring lamp that you have.
- you can recognize again from the mounting for “rear check strap” sII at the chassis, should be like in the Haynes restoration Manual land rover series I, II, & III (H622) page 92 CR-1, or page 93 CR-2. not like in page 94 – C-7 which are a sIIa model.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/993.jpg
CR-1


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/994.jpg
CR-1


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/995.jpg
C-7



Our conclusion is, your land rover sII is a 1962 model year or 1963 year, from the character we catch from the photos and the books…
My dad has a tip, if you want to increase the power and acceleration of your landy (if it is 2286cc petrol), we’ve been modifying the engine by using petrol defender camshaft, and cylinder head must use the ratio 1:8. it’s a great result, you should try it mate’…

Well, we hope this will help.. :)
sorry if there are any mistakes.. :D


Regards,
Daniel prasetyo martopo & Martopo Sudjarwo

[JDNSW]

The above probably is fairly good at identifying it as 1962-3. But if it that date is a Series 2a, which replaced the Series 2 in 1961. The headlight type is not diagnostic, as the older type remained on Australian assembled 2as until the headlights moved into the guards (and are easily swapped anyway).

Vent levers are similarly easily swapped, as are a lot of other parts, including carburetter and exhaust manifold (often swapped as the newer one is a major improvement!).

While the change to the Defender (actually 90/110) camshaft is probably a good idea it is not terribly practical - this engine was never sold in Australia, as the only engines sold in coil spring Landrovers before 1992 were the V8 and the Isuzu diesel, and after that only the 200Tdi diesel. It is probably feasible to import one from the UK, but it would be expensive.

John

[Phoenix]

Go on, taker her back to original, it is acutally fun, especially as they near completion!!

Nice swap by the way. I'll have to come out and have a look at the old girl one day!

[Jock The Rock]

Thanks for the detective work fellas, I might head out today and have a closer look at that radiator to see if I can find a number and take some more photos of the interior and engine bay


Our conclusion is, your land rover sII is a 1962 model year or 1963 year, from the character we catch from the photos and the books…

Well, we hope this will help.. :)
sorry if there are any mistakes.. :D


Regards,
Daniel prasetyo martopo & Martopo Sudjarwo

I was just thinking if its either '62 or '63 wouldnt it have to be a '63 because that suffix "b" was only used from March 1963 till April 1966

So it must be a 1963?



Go on, taker her back to original, it is acutally fun, especially as they near completion!!

Nice swap by the way. I'll have to come out and have a look at the old girl one day!

Ill see how I go with the original bit ;) will be a lot of work.

Yeah sure that would be good, send me a PM when your free and Ill see what Im up to

This is the rest of the collection, an old photo my blue Defender should be in that line up as well

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/08/566.jpg

[UncleHo]

G'day Jock The Rock :)


Don't take the Haynes book as gospel in regard to ID as this is an english publication and it gives ID's to UK manufactured vehicles (Home Market) yours would probably be a PMC assembled vehicle and would have minor differences, IE, wiper motor shapes, Aust used what was available in stock until this stock was used, the Radiators were Australian Radiators, (usually NATRACORE) Starters and generators were often Lucas Aust.

But that said, with a 24305923b I would put it as a 62 build for the 63 model, there should be a PMC body plate on the inside of the cab on the firewall ahead of the gearlevers, this will give the Body No *****and the Car No 88-****** these would match. It will have the 2.25litre 7:1 comp ratio motor, and would have been fitted with a Solex Carby,(probably has a Holden BXOV-1 on it now,59-65) the screen vents might be the older screw out type, it would have been POSITIVE earth originally, but may have been changed to NEG. earth, some gauges may not be connected as they would read opposite to they're original set-up, an easy fix, you will get a lot of enjoyment out of bringing it back up to scratch,keep the Holden Carby as it is much easier to work on :) and parts are still available, or you could fit a webber 34ICH (direct Landrover replacement ex UK)

Hope that is of some help:D

cheers

[grill]

g'day uncleHo... :)

thanks for your advice about the Haynes..to be honest, that was our concern too about the vehicle manufacture, because Haynes refers to the Uk manufacture...and as far as i know the landrover in Australia have a so much different than the UK's, right?..thx for the input... :D

regards,
daniel prasetyo :)

[Andy-M]

G'Day Jock

Let me know if you need any chassis bits, you can have what you want off my spares one if the bits are O/K. Since the price of steel dropped it has Just stayed in the yard.


Cheers Andy.

[Jock The Rock]

G'Day Jock

Let me know if you need any chassis bits, you can have what you want off my spares one if the bits are O/K. Since the price of steel dropped it has Just stayed in the yard.


Cheers Andy.

Thanks mate :) hopefully dont need any spring hangers :o :D

Ill let you know


G'day Jock The Rock :)


Don't take the Haynes book as gospel in regard to ID as this is an english publication and it gives ID's to UK manufactured vehicles (Home Market) yours would probably be a PMC assembled vehicle and would have minor differences, IE, wiper motor shapes, Aust used what was available in stock until this stock was used, the Radiators were Australian Radiators, (usually NATRACORE) Starters and generators were often Lucas Aust.

But that said, with a 24305923b I would put it as a 62 build for the 63 model, there should be a PMC body plate on the inside of the cab on the firewall ahead of the gearlevers, this will give the Body No *****and the Car No 88-****** these would match. It will have the 2.25litre 7:1 comp ratio motor, and would have been fitted with a Solex Carby,(probably has a Holden BXOV-1 on it now,59-65) the screen vents might be the older screw out type, it would have been POSITIVE earth originally, but may have been changed to NEG. earth, some gauges may not be connected as they would read opposite to they original set-up, an easy fix, you will get a lot of enjoyment out of bringing it back up to scratch,keep the Holden Carby as it is much easier to work on :) and parts are still available, or you could fit a webber 34ICH (direct Landrover replacement ex UK)

Hope that is of some help:D

cheers

Think I might make an executive decision to call it a '62 :p has a nice ring to it. I have a thing for even numbers, the volume on the CD player is alway set on an even number. I do beleive the term is obsessive compulsive ;)

Cant wait to get into it. Might try and find a shed I can rent :)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Jock

I can't help you a real lot more on the chassis number 24305923b other than what you have already deciphered.

However several things I can tell you is that the vehicle doesn't seem to be recorded in the NSW books and that vehicles with chassis numbers 14 numbers before Burt and 63 numbers after Burt were both sold to NSW customers in April 1964.

(And in case anyone is confusing you, Series IIA Land Rover have 8 digits and a suffix letter in their chassis number, just like Burt, while series II Land Rovers have 9 digits with no suffix letter and the 4th digit indicates model year)

Hope this assists.

Diana

BTW. You may find that a Salisbury in the rear will cause problems of prop shaft angles.

[Jock The Rock]

Jock

I can't help you a real lot more on the chassis number 24305923b other than what you have already deciphered.

However several things I can tell you is that the vehicle doesn't seem to be recorded in the NSW books and that vehicles with chassis numbers 14 numbers before Burt and 63 numbers after Burt were both sold to NSW customers in April 1964.

(And in case anyone is confusing you, Series IIA Land Rover have 8 digits and a suffix letter in their chassis number, just like Burt, while series II Land Rovers have 9 digits with no suffix letter and the 4th digit indicates model year)

Hope this assists.

Diana

BTW. You may find that a Salisbury in the rear will cause problems of prop shaft angles.

So it could be a '64 then, but more likely that it was made in '63 or '62?

Yeah I read about that, and ended up putting a standard diff back in :)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

So it could be a '64 then, but more likely that it was made in '63 or '62? ...<snip> No it was an Australian assembled (CKD) which would have come out of the PMC Enfield NSW assembly plant. The CKD vehicles contained components manufactured in the UK and components manufactured in Australia, particularly body components. It would be wrong to date a vehicle at the time one component, like an engine, was manufactured in the U.K. The build date is the day it comes out the end of the production line at Enfield and has its chassis number stamped.

My understanding was that in the early days of SII/SIIA when there was little competition from other marques like Land Cruiser, as a Land Rover was produced at PMC it was sent to a distributor for sale. When I review the Grenville books* for 1962 - 64, there are occasional notations in the header like "April production" with the vehicles in that batch being sold in May, similarly "Dec-Jan" and the vehicles are sold/distributed in February-March. So my read of your chassis number is that the vehicle would have probably been built in March 1964 but possibly as early as December 1963.

It does seem that the suffix periods for Australian assembled vehicles is about 2 months behind the equivalent suffix in the UK. This would be because the components that the suffix relates to are manufactured in the UK and need to be shipped to Sydney for final assembly of the vehicle.

What I don't find helpful is determining a vehicles age using it's fittings 44 years later as a basis for what it had when built by PMC/Rover.

A classic example is the firewall vent regulators. The SII had screw regulators which you could adjust proportionally and screw up tight to seal the vent from dust and rain. The SIIa had a lever arrangement with pre-set knotches, these didn't seal very well. In the LROC-S during the 1960s and 70s many members with SIIa vehicles would grab the SII regulators when ever they could get them to retrofit their SIIa.

Another issue is the steering column, when someone had a worn steering box they would often grab a complete box, column and steering wheel from another vehicle.

Hope this helps .

Diana

* Grenville Motors NSW was a division of LNC Industries, PMC at the time was also a division of LNC Industries.