On-road wet weather tyres

[TeZZaP]

After recently loosing the back-end of my 2003 Defender 90 going down the Kuranda range a couple of times - in very wet and slippery on-road conditions - yes, I was driving very slowly and carefully, but still managed to loose the back momentarily... I was thinking of getting a set of 'proper' on road tyres specifically suited to on-road wet conditions. Can anyone recommend this type of tyre?

[naradataranto]

I had a pair of Perrelli p6000 some years ago and they were amazing. Any good soft compound tire with good groves to quickly wick away the water is what you want but go to a few tyre specialists and ask their opinion.
I found my cooper AT and Toyo Open Country tyres to be hard in compound and a little loose in the wet. Got mud tires on now and wouldnt wish them on anyone on a wet road. No comparison to good road tyres.

[Slunnie]

What size is on it?

[PAT303]

Go michelin. Pat

[big guy]

Michelin XPC if you can get some.
235/70/16.
They are a M&S type and great all rounders actually.
Good in sand when down to 15Psi.

Best of luck.

[dmdigital]

The General Grabber TR that came with the Puma are proving excellent in the wet up here.

[rick130]

In the wet increase your tyre pressures. Truly. It's an old racers trick. ;)

I was always quick in the wet, and all the cars I worked on either won or placed in the wet, and part of that 'trick' was increasing tyre pressures. It reduces the contact patch slightly, helps keep the voids between tread blocks open and as it has reduced the contact patch, also works the centre tread blocks harder to generate some heat in the tyre (may not work in a hard road tyre :D)

The difference between the right and wrong pressure is this.
First time I'd ever engineered a sedan (only ever worked on Formula Fords) was a wet Eastern Ck and I was looking after a Group Nc XU1 Torana. Everyone used the then gun Hoosier treaded racing tyre. I asked the driver what everyone did in the wet, "let the tyres down" :eek: Naa, "yes" and as I couldn't back off anti-roll bars and low speed bump in the shocks and he wouldn't let me increase front toe out nor stand the tyres back up I let his tyres down. I really didn't know the tyre so thought it must respond to this and I could see everyone doing this, including the supposed 'guns'.

When he came in from the race I was roundly abused as it was obvious I was "****** trying to kill him" "it was ****** dangerous" etc. even though he hated driving in the wet, didn't lose a place and was sliding around no worse than anyone else out there. The verbal barrage went on for about ten minutes.

Eff it, I pumped those bloody Hoosiers up, right up :D
The bastard drove through the field passing everybody, keeping it nice and staright and placed :eek:

After that I asked a mate of mine who'd had great success over the years, winning almost everything there was to win in Production Car racing about his experience and he confirmed they always pumped the tyres up when in the wet, didn't matter whether it was a radial or cross ply.

Of course if the tyres are really old hard, nothing short of new rubber will help.

[TeZZaP]

What size is on it?

The current tyres are the ones that came with the vehicle, and I've been pretty happy with them until I moved to FNQ a couple of years ago, the road conditions (both on and off the road) are very different to what I encountered in NSW/Vic/Tassie. Much wetter up here! I was thinking of setting up a specific on-road set and moving my current tyres onto a set that I pop on when I know I'm gonna hit dirt roads.

Current tyres (6 years old but still with plenty of tread);
General Grabber T/R
M+S LT 235/85 R16 120/116Q

[TeZZaP]

The General Grabber TR that came with the Puma are proving excellent in the wet up here.

Interesting, I have the General Grabber T/R on at the moment and they are as slippery as hell (to be fair the Kuranda Range is extremely demanding in the wet, its a major black spot here and regularly takes life's). The alternative is that my Grabbers are getting old, maybe the rubber has stated to harden, they still look good though...

[rick130]

<snip> The alternative is that my Grabbers are getting old, maybe the rubber has stated to harden, they still look good though...

6 years old ?
Definitely.

[TeZZaP]

6 years old ?
Definitely.

I don't much about tyres (shock horror!), what's the life expectancy of tyres then?

[PAT303]

Rick I did the same thing when I raced karts,eastern creek,monsoon conditiions and I pumped the tyres up as hard as I could get them and won by a mile.After 6 years regardless of tread the tyres are hard and have no grip,they are well past thier best. Pat

[PhilipA]

I have BFG Long Trail 205.16 on my RRC. They are different to most as they are made in France not USA.

They have a closed shoulder and good longitudinal drainage channels and are great on wet or dry bitumin. They have an open inner shoulder like an AT.

Long Trails are standard fitment on many US trucks.

If they made them in 235.85x16 , I think they would meet your needs well.
Regards Philip A

[TeZZaP]

So it looks like my tyres are just getting old and hard :(

I'm gonna be down in Cairns this Friday, so I'll pop into a couple of places and see what they recommend, so far on the list I have;

Perrelli P600
Michelin XPC
and a new set of whats on there (Grabbers TR)

I noticed on Michelins website they don't mention P600 but recommend LTX ATs... any one used the LTX ATs?

Thanks all for your input.

[njz]

The Michelin Latitude Tour HP are great in the wet. I run them as purely road tyres. They were great in the sand on Fraser too.

[dmdigital]

6 years old :eek::eek::eek: I'd be replacing them regardless.

I know the Kuranda Range very well and have driven it wet and dry on bikes and in cars and it can get very slippery, especially in the heavier forested sections.

Tyres do hard and you have also got the added issue of the more consistent higher temperatures of FNQ. One of the most common reasons I see for many people blowing tyres is the age of the tyres if they don't do a lot of mileage.

I live in Arnhem land and whilst its not as wet all year round as FNQ its very wet for several months. The General TR's proved good new when I got the Puma in Melbourne winter and have proved good so far up here in the wet. The Michelin are also a good tyre. In very general terms the more aggressive the tyre the worse its going to be in the wet on the bitumen, but of course the better on wet dirt.

[isuzurover]

Tyre age...

IME the rubber compound gets harder and less grippy as it gets older, but long highway trips accelerate the process. e.g. I have a set of MTRs which I bought new in 2003. When new, I could drive as hard as a IIA could manage (with some remaining sanity), and couldn't get them to lose grip on wet bitumen. In 2008 they were still quite supple, but a trip from Brisbane - Perth made them a LOT harder. I won't be replacing them till they are worn out, but I will drive more carefully on wet roads.

[rick130]

FWIW, heat cycles and UV exposure harden tyres.

What happens is that the natural oils present in the rubber evaporate out and how quickly this happens depends on the compound used, but it starts happening from new.

Most all race tyres get thrown away, not because they don't have any rubber left, but they have 'gone off' meaning they've lost their grip levels of a new tyre.
I've thrown away race tyres that had done one meeting of about twenty five laps of practice/qualifying and a ten and a fifteen lap race.
They had plenty of rubber left, but had dropped 1.5 seconds/lap three weeks after the first use. ie. a new set of tyres were 1.5 secs/lap quicker on a dry track :eek:

[TeZZaP]

Tyre age...

IME the rubber compound gets harder and less grippy as it gets older, but long highway trips accelerate the process. e.g. I have a set of MTRs which I bought new in 2003. When new, I could drive as hard as a IIA could manage (with some remaining sanity), and couldn't get them to lose grip on wet bitumen. In 2008 they were still quite supple, but a trip from Brisbane - Perth made them a LOT harder. I won't be replacing them till they are worn out, but I will drive more carefully on wet roads.

Interesting.. we drove the Landie from Sydney to Cairns a couple of years back (towing a boat full of chickens... but that's another story!). Plus my wife would use it to go visit her horse when we lived in Sydney - a round trip mostly on motorway of 150 km at least twice a week... so although overall the vehicle is low milage, a lot of the milage has been highway driving...

[TeZZaP]

Thanks everyone for your input, definitely going to check out getting a new set this Friday... safety first, good grip in the wet up here is paramount!

[camel_landy]

As someone that lives in a country that gets the odd drop or two of rain... ;)

Michelin XPCs get my vote too.

TBH - most good quality tyre compounds will work in the wet. It's more about the compound and size than the tread pattern (though obviously the extreme stuff will make a difference).

The narrower tyres work better as they will cut through the water better where as you're more likely to aqua-plane with wide tyres. (similar principles to the pumping the tyre up comments as you're reducing the surface area.)

I find that even my XZLs aren't too bad in the wet. They're an aggressive mud tyre but they're narrow and a Michelin compound.

HTH

M

[big guy]

Just went through the hills and it was a tad wet on sunday morning, it took me by surprise and my Michelin XPC's just tracked through the corner, where the commodore was actually just putting its tale out in front of me.

I made a couple of calls and XPC's are no longer being made, you may be lucky enough to get some old stock though.
Mine lasted a long time. Truly one of the best tyres I have ever had.

What will I do next???

[isuzurover]

As someone that lives in a country that gets the odd drop or two of rain... ;)

Drop or two is right compared to the rainfall Kuranda gets. About 2-3 METRES per year if I remember correctly - at intensities which would smash UK records.

Not far away is Bellenden Kerr - which gets 8-10m of rain a year!!!!

[camel_landy]

Kuranda gets. About 2-3 METRES per year if I remember correctly - at intensities which would smash UK records.

Ahhh... Yes. I keep forgetting that the northern part of Oz is in the Tropics.

Mind you, we also get the fun & games of freezing conditions here. We had a foot of snow last week, I was out towing 40' trucks up the hills around my place with the Disco :D as the authorities have run out of salt & grit for the roads. When they did put the grit on the roads, we had a day of heavy rain, which promptly washed it all away and then went down to -4c over night. It was like a skating rink here yesterday!!! :eek:

M

[camel_landy]

I made a couple of calls and XPC's are no longer being made, you may be lucky enough to get some old stock though.

We still have XPCs over here. IIRC - Defenders still roll out of the factory with them fitted but usually on steel wheels (i.e. for hard tops, etc...)

I know it doesn't help you but... We get quite a few on the second hand market as people will ditch the XPC in favour for something more macho!

M

[Sleepy]

I was just thinking a similar thing. I have the General Grabbers on my 90 too. They still appear to have plenty of "meat" although lately I feel I am loosing grip. (We haven't had any rain for months down here to really test them!!!). They look as though they still have another 20,000km on them - at least

They are 5 years old.

Time for some new road tyres methinks!:angel:

[big guy]

Camel Landy
you have my vote.

here in OZ, I have been told several tims now that the XPC is no longer made, that may be wrong and if so I be very happy.
Totally agree on running skinny tyres rather than the macho type that are downright dangerous.
Drive safely.

[Tusker]

Pure road tyre, ideal in the wet - have a look at Pirelli STRs.

Regards
Max P

[eksjay]

Although I drive a different car, I can't say enough good words about Pirellis. I had the ATs which they have stopped making. I am now on Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armors (ATs) and they are also very good in the wet. I have used other Goodyears in the past and they [particularly OEM] were shocking.

I thought I would paste the tire rack link as each tyre with the default tyre size for Puma 110s can be compared. [235/85/16]. Some of these tyres might not be available here. Each have a score for wet weather traction and I think if the tyre was lousy, people will want to write about it

I tend to think ATs are probably a better choice for on road than a road-only tyre as the larger tread blocks can wash the water out faster. But then its just me.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare1.jsp'sortValue=1&filterType=all&resultsNumberSelected=Y&displayResults=10&compare=true&compareList=&RunFlat=All&goWhere=%252Ftires%252FCompare1.jsp&sortCode=&width=235%2F&ratio=85&diameter=16&startIndex=0

[TeZZaP]

Ended up buying a new set of General Grabbers, unfortunately they are attached to a nice new Defender 110... most expensive tyres ever! :o

Of course that still leaves me the problem of what to do about the tyres on the 90! Bugger! :angel:

[Sleepy]

Ended up buying a new set of General Grabbers, unfortunately they are attached to a nice new Defender 110... most expensive tyres ever! :o

Of course that still leaves me the problem of what to do about the tyres on the 90! Bugger! :angel:


:Rolling:I'm sure there is a cheaper way to buy tyres ;)
Still, with a Defender thrown in, I s'pose 50 grand is reasonable!!

You could always sell the old tyres - with vehicle attached.:D

[Reads90]

I just picked up a pretty much brand new set of General Grabbers. The ones that land rover fit to a new defenders. Got them cheap and taking the mud tyres off the 110 and putting these on . After all not much call for mud tyres in Brisbane or surrounds :). But should make it quieter and better in the wet

[Gold_TD5]

So what pressures are we all running in our tyres???:)
I know this is a can of worms so just keep your opinion to road use please.
The book says something like 25psi front and 38psi rear unladen;)
I have found the same thing with motorcycle tyres in the wet,
Run a higher pressure, this allows the tyre to maintain it's profile keeping the tread open which works better for water dispersal on the road.
Thanks Lionel