ABS Module - Need your Thoughts

[JayBee75]

Guys, I have the three amigos problem, thought it may have calmed down and was just a once in a while situation, however in tipical british electrics style it's frequency varies as much as my current married sex life.

Definately has been diagnosed as a shuttle valve switch failure via range rov.

Ladas has kindly offerred to help me put in the switch kit that I can purchase for $120, I was about to order this and take him up on his very kind offer.

However have come accross this option that I could do in the UK:

Land Rover Discovery ABS Pump/Module ECU WABCO - eBay, Land Rover, Car Parts, Cars, Parts Vehicles. (end time 27-Feb-09 03:13:54 AEDST) (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=390031644186)

(I apologies up front if I am not allowed to post links)

Not sure of the postage but would get my unit reconditioned for around $600 all up, much better than the $1800 I have been quoted here locally.

My question is has anyone done the reconditioned option? What was the result? likewise the switch option? As I have heard mixed results.

Really not sure whether to bite the bullet and just get the unit done.

Any opinions would be appreciated!

Thanks

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Untill reco-ing the wabco's become a LOT more common than at present( I havent heard of one on here yet---)
I'd take Ladas up on his kind offer---

[Grumbles]

I was unaware of anyone in Oz reconditioning the Wabco units. I Looked hard when mine went and could find no -one. Overseas sounds good [and cheap] but the time delay is unacceptable [for me anyway]. The $1800 sounds reasonable compared to vehicle off road delays and the price of a new unit.

[simonl8353]

IMHO, The offer from Ladas would be the go.
You could get a quote from Jobson Electronics in Carlton Vic Jobson Electronics - 189 Elgin Street Carlton VIC 3053 (http://cyberspot.com.au/jobson/) but I do not have any intel on them.

[mike 90 RR]

I'd take Ladas up on his kind offer---


IMHO, The offer from Ladas would be the go.

x3 IMHO ...

[Blue Meanie]

I suggest that you get them to check continuity between the two pins that the shuttle valve switch connector plugs onto on the bottom of the ABS modulator and the two pins that connect to the loom on the side of the modulator (pins 8 & 9 from memory). I had a new SVS installed but it didn't fix the problem. When I got around to investigating myself, I found that the earth pin on the base of the modulator would lose continuity with pin 8(?) if I pressed it directly into the modulator although it didn't wobble at all so you wouldn't pick this up by just testing for looseness. In the end I by-passed the internal wiring in the modulator and spliced wires from the SVS straight into the loom. I've had no problems since. So its worth checking this while the modulator is out rather than fitting the new SVS and then finding it hasn't worked.

[Graeme]

Has the modulator been given a good bleed? It could be sticky shuttle valves rather than an electrical problem.
I use a piece of wire with a spade terminal on each end to temporarily replace the ABS pump relay so that I can bleed the brakes and modulator properly.

[zzsteve]

I use a piece of wire with a spade terminal on each end to temporarily replace the ABS pump relay so that I can bleed the brakes and modulator properly.
Hi Graeme and colleagues,

How is this done? Is it as simple as bleeding in a conventional sense? i.e. fill reservoir, depress pedal and bleed at each slave cylinder nipple - but with the pump running? Does the pump make it unnecessary to depress the pedal?
(So many questions...sorry)

TIA
Steve

[Graeme]

I don't touch the pedal as the pump does the job. Do it with the ign OFF and be careful the reservoir doesn't run out of fluid due to the volume that can be drawn-off. I refill the reservoir after each wheel and only run the pump when I have the bleed tube ready. Never have I had it so easy to bleed brakes!

[JayBee75]

Has the modulator been given a good bleed? It could be sticky shuttle valves rather than an electrical problem.
I use a piece of wire with a spade terminal on each end to temporarily replace the ABS pump relay so that I can bleed the brakes and modulator properly.


Some very good points, I think at the last major service Rang Rov changed the fluid so I assume that would be the same senerio?

It's funny it has been going off all the time in the past week, there are times when it will go off when I touch the brake pedal, other times just while I am driving along without touching anything, and then yesterday I went over a bump and it went off. Today, nothing.

I think it seems like a sticky switch as it seems so tempremental. Also seems to be worse in hot weather.

After the posts the other day I had already ordered the switch from british 4wd so I am going to try that first, if it does'nt work, which with ladas 's help I'm sure it will! The bleed and checking the continunity of the two pins would be next then I assume, however that sort of thing starts to get out of my league, and the biggest challenge I have at the moment is time.

[Zute]

I'm going through the same thing at the moment. My lights are now at the stage of staying on all the time. I've been reading everything I can find on this. Seems to me, like this is an age thing and will start to become more frequent with D2's.
I'm amazed at the new skills I'm learning since becoming its guardian.:(

[Graeme]

Some time ago I had the lights coming on more and more frequently so pulled the switches out & checked them and the 2-post connector but all seemed fine. Put it back together & bled the system and all's been well since. Maybe the 2-post connection was a bit suspect.

[Skiboy]

Graeme et al

Just got quoted $2700 for the ABS module - the 3 amigos!?#

Is this the issue you guys all had?

Where is the 2 post electrical connection that is being discussed as the possible bad earth - my problem is on and off - Land rover reset the computer after the lights had been on for a month and now comes on and off.

Skiboy

[ecka]

Hi
Had mine repaired by Bruce Davis,new abs valve kit part number-swo500040 parts and labour $1449.25 that was last year,no trouble since.
Ecka.

[JayBee75]

Probably good timing this thread came up again.

I ended up purchasing the switch to replace in my ABS module from british 4WD, however have not had the chance to have a go at changing it.

In the meantime the lights are pretty much permanently on now, funnily enough went 4Wding last weekend and they did not come on! minute back on the road back they came.

The unit now makes a grinding noise when TC is activated (when lights are off, eg system is working) and when hill descent is enagaged makes a similar sort of noise like something is not lubricated. Seems like the issue may have now expanded past the switch itself? Any thoughts?

To add to it meanwhile I have managed to get my hands on another spare unit, however do not know if it's has the 3 amegios problem or not.

My dilemma is, do I change the switch in the spare unit anyway (just in case), or even get the spare unit reco'd prior to putting in the car and replacing the unit that's in there? I don't want to put it in and find the same issue.

I can get the unit reco'd in the UK (yes OS) for $400AUD plus postage, so am trying to work that out, but at this stage still cheaper than $1400.

Next question is I am ****house at bleeding brakes, how hard is it to change the units over yourself, as I understand it needs a bleed?

Any help opinions or comments welcome!

[Graeme]

For bleeding, see my earlier posts this thread. It really is a simple task.

[Skiboy]

I am told that the later ones ARE repairable - quoted $1k for the parts plus labour for this.

The earlier ones ARE not repairable according to the Landrover specialist on the Gold Coast. Hence $2,700 to fit a new one to my 99 D2.

For a 100,000 km that in 5,000 km and 6 months I have had head gaskets, radiator, o2 sensors and air meter done I am not a happy camper.

My SS (red of course) 6sp 5.7L after 130,000 km of flogging the behind out of it had only needed tyres (4 sets) and oils (ie reg maintenance) (including towing a 2ton caravan regularly)

There is something really odd if they can be repaired in the uk for $400 AUD plus freight but I am told $2,700 please. I believe in commerce and a fair margin but that is crap.

So what years-models are you guys getting reconditioned?
Skiboy

[feral]

Before you all commit to spending thousands of hard earned cash, have you looked and searched for everything on the shuttle valves?

There has been numerous threads over the last couple of months and the trend was that the shuttle valve's are only needed to be replaced.

Look here

http://www.hummerknowledgebase.com/brakes/absmod.pdf


And here

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/74344-abs-3-amigos.html



There are only three parts which make up the modulator.
1. Shuttle valves - $120
2. Connector Plate - $1200
3. Valve Plate - HEAPS.......


Your modulator collects dust more than anything else. Why would it wear out so much that it requires a TOTAL rebuild and at great expense?

The shuttle valves fail due to lack of use. Everything else should last a lifetime.

I replaced my shuttle valves and the problem was solved. The next problem area is the Connector plate and there is no evidence of any problems with the valve plates.

Spend your $120 on shuttle valves and then take it from there.

I think a total rebuild is just not needed.


EDIT: My D2......January, 1999 build.

[Skiboy]

Dear Feral

I nearly died when I was told the cost - it crossed my mind to get out of land rover all together today. But my brother reminded me that the capital cost was low - more than made up for with the repair cost it would seem though.

Anyway it seems someone is having a lend of me then - which is what I thought - hence I dashed to this site for the good goss.

And reading this it would seem more than one person has be had on this one.

I will go the $120/$145 route as mine seems intermittent. Hence cannot be a major failure – car only done 110,000 km!

The tutorial you posted the link for is great - most helpful. Even tempted to fix myself – no sure about the bleeding and how to know I have done it correctly.

I think I will buy this part - take it to my regular (NON LANDROVER) mechanic (who used to own a Rangie so loves looking after me) and NOT pay $2,700 to the local independent (i.e. non Landover dealer but specialist Landover only mechanic) who said my Oct 99 D2 ASB could “not be rebuilt” and that the NEW unit would only be guaranteed for 20,000 km and would cost $1,000 to repair if it failed.

Unless I am misunderstanding something here you guys are saying my Oct 1999 build unit CAN be rebuilt with a small relatively cheap part.

Skiboy

[JayBee75]

Before you all commit to spending thousands of hard earned cash, have you looked and searched for everything on the shuttle valves?

There has been numerous threads over the last couple of months and the trend was that the shuttle valve's are only needed to be replaced.

Look here

http://www.hummerknowledgebase.com/brakes/absmod.pdf


And here

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/74344-abs-3-amigos.html



There are only three parts which make up the modulator.
1. Shuttle valves - $120
2. Connector Plate - $1200
3. Valve Plate - HEAPS.......


Your modulator collects dust more than anything else. Why would it wear out so much that it requires a TOTAL rebuild and at great expense?

The shuttle valves fail due to lack of use. Everything else should last a lifetime.

I replaced my shuttle valves and the problem was solved. The next problem area is the Connector plate and there is no evidence of any problems with the valve plates.

Spend your $120 on shuttle valves and then take it from there.

I think a total rebuild is just not needed.


EDIT: My D2......January, 1999 build.




Appreciate your logical comments Feral.

I have done alot of investigating into this company in the UK, and they rebuild all types of ABS units, all informtion says these guys do a great job. It will cost me all up $650 landed back at my door for the rebuild.
I just don't want to get this spare unit put in to find it's also stuffed.

Is there anyway to test the unit whilst it's not in the car?

I will have to get someone to put it in as I cannot bleed brakes for ****.

The other option which i am interested in peoples thoughts, is to change the shuttle valve switch in the spare unit anyway before I put it in the car? I have the siwtch here, instead of changing the ones that's already in the car. I really think the unit in the car has other issues, as it's noises are gradually getting louder.

[JayBee75]

Dear Feral

I nearly died when I was told the cost - it crossed my mind to get out of land rover all together today. But my brother reminded me that the capital cost was low - more than made up for with the repair cost it would seem though.

Anyway it seems someone is having a lend of me then - which is what I thought - hence I dashed to this site for the good goss.

And reading this it would seem more than one person has be had on this one.

I will go the $120/$145 route as mine seems intermittent. Hence cannot be a major failure – car only done 110,000 km!

The tutorial you posted the link for is great - most helpful. Even tempted to fix myself – no sure about the bleeding and how to know I have done it correctly.

I think I will buy this part - take it to my regular (NON LANDROVER) mechanic (who used to own a Rangie so loves looking after me) and NOT pay $2,700 to the local independent (i.e. non Landover dealer but specialist Landover only mechanic) who said my Oct 99 D2 ASB could “not be rebuilt” and that the NEW unit would only be guaranteed for 20,000 km and would cost $1,000 to repair if it failed.

Unless I am misunderstanding something here you guys are saying my Oct 1999 build unit CAN be rebuilt with a small relatively cheap part.

Skiboy

SkiBoy, this is the communication I got back from the company in the UK if it's any help. I just provided them with the serial number. They also indiacte if its tested and found not be be faulty they just cahrge a small testing fee, so all you are up for is the postage, so then I ask whether it's worth it?

Hi there,

We can remanufacture your unit if you send it in to us.

Address:
ECU Testing
23A Church Street
Eastwood
Nottingham
NG16 3HP

Tel: 01773 535638 9am-6pm Monday-Friday & Saturdays 10am-4pm

Please make sure you include your name, address and telephone number with your unit when you send it. The typical cost of remanufacturing this type of unit is £195 +vat, all rebuilds come with a 2 year warranty. We recommend you send your unit Via FEDEX / UPS Express or another equivalent courier service. The rebuild would normally take around 2 - 3 days to complete, you can pay via credit/debit card or PayPal once the rebuild is complete. Return Postage to Australia would be £50 via UPS Express.
If you want to prioritise your unit then please fill in, print and then submit this test form: ECU test form (http://www.ecutesting.com/ecu_test_form.html) remember to include the printed copy with your unit.





The cheapest I have seen here is $1300 which I think is very cheap, to my local LR repairer who tells me it needs a full rebuilt (whatever that means) they charge $1800
I think at teh price you have been quoted, they are loosening your belt and bending you over.

[JayBee75]

Aside from the descitption that Feral has provided earlier in the post with the ABS links, there was a post somewhere on the forum where one of the guys did a step by step picture breakdown of changing and tesing the abs modulator on a repair they did for their D2.

It also showed heim soldering points on the shuttle valve to either bridge the connection or keep the circut permanently connected? Not sure.

However does anyone know eher this post was, I cannot find It!:mad:

[Timka21213]

??????????? ? ?????? ????, ????. - ????? ? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ????????? 2. (http://community.livejournal.com/ru_diagnostic/1718.html)

description in Cyrillic (Russian), sorry for that; but some pictur are there

[rabs999]

I posted a while back that I had similar issues with the three amigos and the fault codes said the Wabco was stuffed (mines an '02 D2 V8).

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/75476-3-amigos-deported-finally.html

I got a fully reco'd unit installed for $1300 kiwi which I thought was pretty good. I think you PM'd me about it JayBee75? So far it hasn't shown and signs of causing trouble (touch wood).

The UK deal looks sharp tho, adding the hour and a half of labour it took to install mine, which including the bleed and system test, it makes for a reasonably affordable fix. No doubt there will be more cases such as mine popping up to provide some reasonable reference with regards to reliability and cost.

[JayBee75]

Hey Rabs, Yes the UK option is still there for me if required. At nearly 50 pence to the $ it's the highest it's been for some time, so even more beneficial. This will be my choice if my next action does not work.

I actually have got my hands on a spare unit so I am investigating either just putting that in, as it tested fine, or still try the switch first in the one in the car.

Will let you know how I go. If all fails then one of the units will be off to the UK. Might even get the wife to take it on her trip in June, ontop of picking me up my CDL lever!:D

[Urban Panzer]

Hey Rabs, Yes the UK option is still there for me if required. At nearly 50 pence to the $ it's the highest it's been for some time, so even more beneficial. This will be my choice if my next action does not work.

I actually have got my hands on a spare unit so I am investigating either just putting that in, as it tested fine, or still try the switch first in the one in the car.

Will let you know how I go. If all fails then one of the units will be off to the UK. Might even get the wife to take it on her trip in June, ontop of picking me up my CDL lever!:D

Just for interest, I have used that company several times for rebuilt / fixed VAG ABS modulators. So far been excellant service from them.



Will let you know how I go. If all fails then one of the units will be off to the UK. Might even get the wife to take it on her trip in June, ontop of picking me up my CDL lever!:D

Any chance she can bring a D2 ARB Winch bumper this way ??? :D:D:p

[JayBee75]

Just for interest, I have used that company several times for rebuilt / fixed VAG ABS modulators. So far been excellant service from them.




Any chance she can bring a D2 ARB Winch bumper this way ??? :D:D:p

LOL,

Thanks Urban Panzer, yes also checked them out myself, have a lot of family in the UK, so my cousin looked into them for me, as well as my communication with them I was very impressed.

ARB bar hey, Not sure if that will meet the luggage limit requirement. I am already treading carefully as she is bringing back a CDL lever from Ashcrofts for me, and along with the Sahara bar I have just got and a few other things, I am doing well for someone who is not meant to spending money on this car!

Cheers
JB

[SteveT]

I don't touch the pedal as the pump does the job. Do it with the ign OFF and be careful the reservoir doesn't run out of fluid due to the volume that can be drawn-off. I refill the reservoir after each wheel and only run the pump when I have the bleed tube ready. Never have I had it so easy to bleed brakes!

Hey Graeme could you be a bit more specific on how to do this like which pins you attach the spade bits too?
I am going to replace my ABS module with my mechanic and would like to bleed the system afterwards (his scanner can reset codes but not bleed the module)
thanks in advance
Steve

[Skiboy]

JB and Others - all good stuff.

My mechanic (non LR) says he can get a new unit for $1800 plus fitting.

What is the web address/email of the UK mob that are reconditioning these? As my truck has only done 110,000 km I doubt it is stuffed - it is the electronic faulty bits that are the problem (shuttle valve sends out a fault signal)

I am not sure I want to fix it as I went serious 4x4ing two weeks ago with 2 comp trucks and one with double maxi lockers (my rangie ute comp truck) and the D2 traction control kept up with them (to everyone's surprise).

So I was left wondering if I have a real fault or just a fault signal?

What is the risk of NOT "repairing" or replacing the ABS unit?

Skiboy

[SteveT]

Firstly I changed the shuttle valve unit in my module no luck lights back on 1 week later same code.
I am now trying this option.
I paid money into their account on the 20/5/09
Land Rover Discovery ABS Pump/Module ECU WABCO - eBay, Land Rover, Car Parts, Cars, Parts Vehicles. (end time 23-May-09 19:17:16 AEST) (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=400049470177)
I paid a total of $666 as I am not going to send my unit back keeping it here as a spare.
They still offered me the 2 years warrentee

The break up was
Unit: GBP 195
Postage via UPS : GBP 60
Non return of my unit: GBP 70

total : GBP 325 or AU $666

I will let you all know how long it takes to arrive and of course the result after we have fitted it.

Steve

[Skiboy]

Steve

I will be very interested to hear your results as am seriously considering the same solution - it seems the most cost effective and reasonable solution. Esp as the new one I was offered for $2700 fitted would only have 6 months warranty!

I have emailed the UK supplier to find out the time line if I send them mine and wait for its reconditioned return.

I have also asked for info on the subsequent failure rate of the reconditioned units.

If these are any good then we need to let all D2 owners know as this is a major find.
Skiboy

[SteveT]

Steve

I will be very interested to hear your results as am seriously considering the same solution - it seems the most cost effective and reasonable solution. Esp as the new one I was offered for $2700 fitted would only have 6 months warranty!

I have emailed the UK supplier to find out the time line if I send them mine and wait for its reconditioned return.

I have also asked for info on the subsequent failure rate of the reconditioned units.

If these are any good then we need to let all D2 owners know as this is a major find.
Skiboy

Well the ABS module arrived today 6 days after I paid for it that is pretty good considering the weekend plus a public holiday in the UK actually it is quite amazing me thinks!!
I will have to wait till next week till my mechanic can fit it for me.
Will let you all know how it all goes
Steve

[russ55]

All.........for what it's worth.......

my ABS and amigo's diagnosed to rear RHS wheel sensor. Cleared faults- all OK. Cause- non-genuine pads, plenty of dust causing brake squeal and the frequency of the squealing freaks out the sensor.

It's as good an answer as I've heard.

[SteveT]

Well the ABS module arrived today 6 days after I paid for it that is pretty good considering the weekend plus a public holiday in the UK actually it is quite amazing me thinks!!
I will have to wait till next week till my mechanic can fit it for me.
Will let you all know how it all goes
Steve
Well I got to fit the recon modulator Thursday last week I must say the modulator was well packaged when it arrived plugs in all the right places shrink wrapped and cardboard tubing to protect it all during travel.
Fitted in less than 30 minutes, bled the brakes manually and tried Graeme's relay jumping which works well,but left the mechanics with quiet a low pedal but no Amigos.
I then went home and made up a relay jumper with a switch at the end of 5 metres of 2 core wire which give you 1 man bleeding.
Undo the bleed nipple, flick the switch run the pump, tighten nipple flick switch off ... too easy.
After than bleed and another manual bleed and I had a good pedal back.

So all was good till Saturday afternoon when I pulled into a left hand down car park, I heard the modulator run the brake pedal vibrated under my foot and yes they were back the 3 AMIGOS!
I spent the next 3 days cursing Landrover, the guy on Ebay I bought the modulator from, myself and anyone else who was near.

First thing this morning I went to my mechanic put the test on and it showed " Front left sensor erratic".
Perhaps the new modulator all the bleeding etc. has now found the next weakest link??
Anyway I have removed and cleaned the sensor reset the codes and so far so good.

Sorry to drag this on for so long but I do hope it helps other with this same problem.

In closing I would reccommend this as a good value fix to a very common problem the English Ebay store owner " guyrogers69" supplied a very well packaged Modulator in a very short time with minimal fuss he also gives a 2 year warantee, the best thing of course is the price.... my total was $667.00 delivered and I have kept my old unit!

Now all I have to do is nervously wait and see the Amigos never return again!!

[JayBee75]

Thanks Steve, appreciate the information. I have the UK option as a backup at this stage. I currently have a spare unit which I have tested the switch etc and all are ok, so I am going to put it in when I get a chance and if that fails then I will go the UK option.
Steve can you tell me did you send off a unit and they sent you another? From memory you have the option to reco or have them send you one already reco'd.

Thanks
JB

[SteveT]

Thanks Steve, appreciate the information. I have the UK option as a backup at this stage. I currently have a spare unit which I have tested the switch etc and all are ok, so I am going to put it in when I get a chance and if that fails then I will go the UK option.
Steve can you tell me did you send off a unit and they sent you another? From memory you have the option to reco or have them send you one already reco'd.

Thanks
JB
Hi JB
No i didn't have to send off my unit first but they did ask me to post mine back after fitting, but at 60 pound postage(UPS, I guess there may be cheaper options) and a 70 pound surchage for not returning I took the obvious choice.
BTW still no lights
Steve

[LROCV309]

When I got the three amigos regularly, it was initially diagnosed as a faulty modulator. Before "they" replaced it "they" wanted to run one more testbook (fortunately for me). But "they" couldn't run it because the SLABS ECU was giving them trouble. So "they" replaced it with a proven ECU. Bye-bye three amigos, hello a much cheaper repair bill to fit a new SLABS ECU :)

Cheers,
David M

[danp]

I have the same thing, the three amigo's. MLR say its the modulator, not convinced. Who did you go to for the repair?

[danp]

I don't touch the pedal as the pump does the job. Do it with the ign OFF and be careful the reservoir doesn't run out of fluid due to the volume that can be drawn-off. I refill the reservoir after each wheel and only run the pump when I have the bleed tube ready. Never have I had it so easy to bleed brakes!
Graeme,

Can you please give me a schematic of your bleeding system? ie which pins you have jumped.

Thanks,

Dan

[Graeme]

Hi Dan,
The pins to jump are the wider ones as they carry more current. They are the ones that run parallel to the vehicle.

Graeme

PS Sorry Steve - haven't been back to this thread for a while but I see you worked it out.

[Graeme]

The time had come to get serious about finding the cause of my D2's ABS error. Although there is at least 1 front wheel squealing a bit under light braking and 1 wheel sensor is 950 ohms (min acceptable resistance) and the others are right at 1K, the required 3K resistance across the open shuttle valve switches is sometimes open circuit after running the ABS pump for a short burst and 3K at other times. Hence there has to be a faulty connection inside the modulator that sometimes gets fixed by the vibrations. This time I'll have to be sure I find the fault and fix it properly.

[zzsteve]

the required 3K resistance across the open shuttle valve switches is sometimes open circuit after running the ABS pump for a short burst and 3K at other times. Hence there has to be a faulty connection inside the modulator that sometimes gets fixed by the vibrations.

Just been there...
All solved by two wires bypassing the internal socket and pin arrangement. Connect each of the 2 brown wires from the microswitches to pin 6 and a ground wire on the plug respectively. 3, 2 and 1K now measured with no, moderate and severe brake pedal pressure, and best of all, adios amigoes.

Cheers,

Steve

[Pedro_The_Swift]

PICS!!!

[gofish]

I had constant 3 amigos problem for ages. Replaced pads & problem did not occur for about 3 mths. It has now started to come back & I am wondering if changing the rotors (well worn- machined once already) would help. Also "heard" that if you engage HDC it can help "free-up" shuttle valve. I am slightly spanner-impared but thought it was worth a mention.

[Nicky]

I had constant 3 amigos problem for ages. Replaced pads & problem did not occur for about 3 mths. It has now started to come back & I am wondering if changing the rotors (well worn- machined once already) would help. Also "heard" that if you engage HDC it can help "free-up" shuttle valve. I am slightly spanner-impared but thought it was worth a mention.

"exercising" the shuttle valve via the HDC down a steep slope every few weeks/months seems to keep the 3 amigos away for me.

[Graeme]

Just been there...
All solved by two wires bypassing the internal socket and pin arrangement. Connect each of the 2 brown wires from the microswitches to pin 6 and a ground wire on the plug respectively. 3, 2 and 1K now measured with no, moderate and severe brake pedal pressure, and best of all, adios amigoes.

Cheers,

Steve
That should be pins 8 & 9 (pin 6 is unused). The 2K reading is when 1 switch is open and the other closed which is a fault condition.

[zzsteve]

That should be pins 8 & 9 (pin 6 is unused). The 2K reading is when 1 switch is open and the other closed which is a fault condition.
Quite correct. Shuttle switches are between 9 and 8 (6,7 & 8 are all tied to ground on the circuit I have). My problem was episodic amigos almost at random in an '02 D2. Perhaps they were associated with bumps and sometimes braking. Speed sensors seemed OK and earthing of the modulator was also OK. With no brake pedal pressure the resistance between pin 9 and 6 (or 7 or 8 or earth) was infinite. Pumping the pedal brought on a mix of values down to about 1K. The diagnosis is therefore the switches - or was it?
It is possible to remove the switch assembly underneath the modulator without cracking the fluid lines (pic 1). The three socket head screws are easy to find and undo.
Embarrassingly, the switch assembly was full of sand but the switches seemed well sealed and testing resistance across the 2 pins gave 3k, 2K and 1K with no switch pushed, 1 pushed and both pushed in. No fiddling could make it go open circuit. The problem must be the pin connections and/or internal wiring.
I soldered 2 wires onto the brown leads coming from the switches (circled in pic) and ran them out 2 existing holes on the plastic plate (arrows in pic). Leaving the socket connected internally was to be a mistake.
The external leads were connected to pin 9 lead in the harness and the other to ground. Now, I had a 50% chance of bridging the switch internals correctly and of course it was wrong (ask me how). Quick reversal of the wires and all was good. 2 weeks now of no amigos, spinning it up on the gravel driveway confirms ETC still going. makes me wonder how many ABS modulator faults which don't get better after replacing the switch assembly are really internal connection faults.
HTH
Steve

[Pedro_The_Swift]

while this has been done previously,,
its ALWAYS good to hear someone take these things on,
rather than give up and "replace",,:cool:

oh,, and Ta for the pics,,,,:D

[Graeme]

I like the positive connection afforded by hard wiring from the switches directly to the harness, but as I'm hoping to be selling the vehicle at the end of the year, I think extra external wires might be off-putting to a prospective buyer so will endeavour to correct the faulty connection internally.

[Graeme]

I found and fixed my D2's ABS modulator fault this afternoon. The post for the pins for the shuttle valve switch wire sockets would loose contact on 1 wire with the main harness socket if the post moved a little, suggesting faulty contact at the circuit board. I dug out the sealant directly behind the base of the post and resoldered the pins. After reassembly and checking that it was now fixed, I refilled the hole with new sealant and refitted the modulator, bled the brakes then gave the modulator a rigourous ABS and TC workout.

Resoldering can be done without disconnecting any pipes or removing the shuttle valve switches, but by only removing the modulator from its mounts enough to get access to the sealant below the front mounting stud, although disconnecting the brake lines to the wheels may give better access. It would be very worthwhile for anyone who has intermittent (or permanent) open circuit on the shuttle valve switch circuit to resolder these joints and see if that fixes their problem.

Pics of the resoldered joints:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/157.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/14556)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/158.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/14557)

[zzsteve]

Well done! Need to look at this on mine tomorrow.
Now a bleeding question:
If I bleed by shorting the pump relay, does it have the same effect as a "testbook" bleed? Put another way, do you have to open up the internal solenoid operate valves for a total bleed of all brake fluid channels in the modulator?
What do you think?

TIA

Steve

[Graeme]

Steve,
I have studied the WSM fluid flow diagram in the modulator and am completely satisifed that running the ABS pump will circulate fliud through all passages. This is not the case if bleeding is achieved by pressing the brake pedal or via a pressurised feed from the top of the reservoir. Running the pump draws fluid through passages that do not get bled by conventional methods.

[JayBee75]

I found and fixed my D2's ABS modulator fault this afternoon. The post for the pins for the shuttle valve switch wire sockets would loose contact on 1 wire with the main harness socket if the post moved a little, suggesting faulty contact at the circuit board. I dug out the sealant directly behind the base of the post and resoldered the pins. After reassembly and checking that it was now fixed, I refilled the hole with new sealant and refitted the modulator, bled the brakes then gave the modulator a rigourous ABS and TC workout.

Resoldering can be done without disconnecting any pipes or removing the shuttle valve switches, but by only removing the modulator from its mounts enough to get access to the sealant below the front mounting stud, although disconnecting the brake lines to the wheels may give better access. It would be very worthwhile for anyone who has intermittent (or permanent) open circuit on the shuttle valve switch circuit to resolder these joints and see if that fixes their problem.

Pics of the resoldered joints:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/157.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/14556)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/158.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/14557)


Graeme,

Can you elaborate on what side of the ABS modulator you removed to expose the valve switch that needs soldering? Or can you take another picture further out to understand what part of the modulator it is?

Can see the two switch holes that the switch plugs into, just trying to work out where the two points are that need soldering.

I have a spare modulator on the bench at home and will do this ontop of the switch replacement before I put it in.

Thankyou.
JB

[Skiboy]

Ditto to JB's comment above - I would be interested in giving this a go before I send mine off to the UK for refurbishment.

But it is unclear to me what to pull apart to get access to the pins needing soldering.

Thanks
Keith

[Urban Panzer]

Just done this on a friends D2 yesterday, symptoms were shuttle valve switch on nanocom, switch was replaced but only fixed it for a few months, 3 amigos returned in avengance lol.......I removed the ABS modulator and split it down on the bench

after testing the pins at the socket I had an "open" circuit on the other end, where the 2 pins go into the shuttle valve switch. Its encased in plastic, but a hot knife as posted in the PDF file a while back works a treat, got access to the pins re soldered and so far so good.

pins 6 and 9 will test for continuity to the plug as well

Went out in the vehicle yesterday off road in the mud, vehicle has no CDL but got loads of ABS TC and HDC action and the 3 little buggers are still no where to be seen !! :D

a few piccys if it helps anyone for ref of whats what...

heres the unit "split" in half....

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/119.jpg

Heres the front of the "split" half showing the 2 pins where the shuttle valve switch connects to the main body. This is out of the "repair kit" Land Rover do containing the split half and the shuttle valve switches. I bought this kit incase "one day" mine goes wrong, but may never need it now lol

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/120.jpg

And apologies for the blurry piccy, but you should be able to make out the bottom of the 2 pins and see where I removed the plastic to access them for re-soldering, like in the PDF posted earlier in this topic.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/121.jpg



Interesting to see the other end failed "open" on the post above, will keep that in mind if the fault returns or for the next one.

[JayBee75]

Urban, looks like Graeme has actually soldered the opposite side of the pins, eg if you note his picture, there is exterior dirt etc around the plate on the side he has soldered. If you look furtherthe part in which you have soldered on yours in on the opposite side of Graeme's pic.

Are there two different sections to solder? My perception is where Graeme has soldered is where the two pins plug in for the shuttle valve switch, obviously though I must be wrong.

I am really keen to try this so want to get the process right, if anyone is keen may be worth posting a tutorial then we can put it up in the "Good Oil", merley a suggestion though.

Sorry to be pushing further specific's, this is not something that I am knowledgable in however, all these posts are extremely helpful and appreciated.:)

[Urban Panzer]

Yes your right he has.

The Black rod is where the "body casting" containing the rod with the pins on the end is where the shuttle valve switch actually plugs in. This is where my "open" circuit was, at the other end of the rod, is where its soldered to the "board" inside the ali casting, this is where Graeme had his problem.

Its the same piece. It would depend on where you fault actually is. Graemes job is the first one I have seen done on that side / end of the rod. My outer pin was loose in the socket which when wobbled would break the continuity, so thats why I dug away at it to get to where the pins are physically soldered to the black rod.

Heres a couple more piccys which I hope will help..

This is one half of the unit, its where its actually plugged into the car, the pump is on the other half.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/97.jpg

This is the famous shuttle valve switch.... the "cheap" bit. notice the 2 pin plug in the middle.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/98.jpg

and thats where the shuttle valve switch is actually plugged into the ABS unit, it goes "through" the body of the other half, its very self explanitory when you dis-assemble it. One of the 2 pins you see on the end of the black rod is where my issue was.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/99.jpg

Heres where I soldered v where Graeme soldered on the SAME part. I just resoldered the pins into the rod, and Graeme re-soldered the rod back to the internal board.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/100.jpg

Hope that helps a bit more.

[JayBee75]

Hi All I thought I would continue on the back of this thread as there is a wealth of info that I keep referring to, so maybe worth looking at going on the good oil under the three amigo's threads Pedro?

Anyway I finally got the opportunity to do some work on the ABS modulator. Firstly replaced the switch on the modulator in my D2. No Luck...... Tested the switch I removed and it was also registering fine on the Ohms meter.

Next step pull apart my spare modulator make the changes as per the threads above, then swap over modulators on the car.

Not good news. Firstly the spring on the left hand side is sprung off a plastic rod coming out of the unit. The plastic rod has snapped off. Secondly the second picture the plastic prong that comes out with two small pins only has one pin sticking out and connected. The second pin is sitting in the opposite side of the unit, which highlights the soldering that Graeme undertook in the previous post.

I have rendered the unit beyond my ability to repair, as it looks significantly more damaged than the other units that have been posted previously, particularly with the plastic rod holding one of the tensioned springs broken.

The upside is I am heading over to the UK second week of Feb so my plan I think will be to take the spare unit over and swap it with a reconditioned unit from:

Land Rover Discovery ABS Pump/Module ECU WABCO - eBay, Land Rover, Car Parts, Vehicle Parts Accessories. (end time 23-Jan-10 00:15:33 AEDST) (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180373934044&fromMakeTrack=true)

I will have them send the unit to me in the UK, when I get over send them the unit I have locally. Currently with the exchange rate being the best it has been in years (56c) the reco unit will cost me approx $430. Then cost of someone to fit it when I get back.

A bit of a shame really as I was looking forward to having a crack at repairing it myself, however as stated it's beyond my skill base which is limited.

Anyway hope the additional info helps on what we are all seeing when pulling these units apart.
Cheers
JB

[Rosscoe68]

i too bypassed the internal wiring and connectors and hotwired into the loom through the cover of the switch assembly and have had no issues for the last 3 weeks.