Are these Suitable as Recovery points?

[Jock The Rock]

Gday

Just asking to see if these are suitable as recovery points or are they similar to the little tabs bolted to the chassis and only to be used for tying the vehicle down?

Im guessing they are alright to use but just wanted to check

Thought I better ask rather than find out the wrong way ;)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/497.jpg

Note: I no longer have an ARB bar, but I have a TJM which is very similar and has the same sort of thing

Thanks for your help

(I hope this isnt to stupid a question but theres only one way to learn and thats to ask questions I reckon ;) :( :) )

[long stroke]

If you use an equaliser strap i think they'll be fine;)

[one_iota]

I asked this question of the ARB mob and was told yes....I reckon a vigorous recovery would test that answer.

Better than nothing and with an equaliser strap the test is halved.

[long stroke]

We got winched up a VERY steep slippery rutty hill, using only the county tie down points at the front:eek:
Show's how effective an equaliser strap is:cool:

TIM.

[MacFamily]

Personally Jock I wouldn't..If it dosent have a rating stamped on it I dont use it for snatching.Is there a rating (kg) stamped on the bar near those?

But my advise Jock is ring your local/nearest ARB dealer and ask them.

[one_iota]

We got winched up a VERY steep slippery rutty hill, using only the county tie down points at the front:eek:
Show's how effective an equaliser strap is:cool:

TIM.

My Disco was pulled out sideways from a difficult situation by two hand winches and the welded tie downs with an equalizer on the front and a shackle on the rear tow hitch. It did the job...but it was a very slow operation and not a snatch strap job.

Everything has its limits. A front snatch recovery would test that.

[long stroke]

My Disco was pulled out sideways from a difficult situation by two hand winches and the welded tie downs with an equalizer on the front and a shackle on the rear tow hitch. It did the job...but it was a very slow operation and not a snatch strap job.

Everything has its limits. A front snatch recovery would test that.

We won't be testing the limits:D
Just made these:cool:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/73596-last-minute-recovery-points.html

TIM.

[Scallops]

I asked this question of the ARB mob and was told yes....I reckon a vigorous recovery would test that answer.

Better than nothing and with an equaliser strap the test is halved.

Funny - I have the same bar and was told they are NOT rated recovery points by ARB and they should not be used. That was the concensus at MR automotive too. So I installed proper RP through the chassis.

[Jock The Rock]

Just to confirm I am asking for a TJM bar, but I only had a clear picture of an ARB bar. Ill check to see if there are any ratings tomorrow morning

I also just bought on of these. It comes with a recovery hook so Ill bolt that onto the chassis when I get a chance

Snatch Strap Recovery Kit RRP $329 Bargain @ $139 Kit 4 - eBay 4x4 Accessories, Exterior, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 23-Feb-09 07:01:58 AEDST) (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=150326582898)

Thanks for the info

[Utemad]

I've used those eyes on the ARB bar for snatching before. They are meant for the hilift jack adapter though.

I have an equaliser strap to use between them but never have. As the three or so times I've been snatched in the Disco it was more of just a pull over an obstacle up a hill. However the equaliser straps are a PITA. As when you are in need of a snatch on a hill you don't really feel like climbing out and setting it up. Generally you are in a fairly precarious spot.
I think I might set it up next time and tie it out of the way so it is there waiting just in case.

[one_iota]

Funny - I have the same bar and was told they are NOT rated recovery points by ARB and they should not be used. That was the concensus at MR automotive too. So I installed proper RP through the chassis.

I forgot to add the sceptic/sarcastic emoticon to my post.

A couple of recovery hooks "properly" mounted to the top side of the bar in line with the chassis rails would be a better solution. I reckon that the ARB tabs would bend like a cornflake packet cut outs in the real world. I think that they are intended for keeping the winch cable hook when not in use and nothing much more.

[lochie]

I have used the eyelets on a ARB bull bar to tow a damaged Deefer 90 odd K's out of the Simpson Desert to Birdsville. The eyelets had been strengthened by the addition of a welded plate.This was carried out by Ritters - the bar is still in use 10+yrs later.

[Reads90]

I used my ARB for some serious snatching and double line winch work in my old winch challange 90 . I fitted two swival tow eyes as you can see in the picture. They worked really well and gave you a good place to attc with a shackle. Also more of a chance of seeing these in mud than the eyes under the bumper :) BTWi have always used the two eyes on the front of the bumper with the Hi lift for jacking the car up ( with the Hi lift defender adapter)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/485.jpg

[Tusker]

I have seen those eyes rip open.. but that was an early bar. These days they have a reinforcing ring.

There's a fair bit of leverage involved, using these can twist/rotate the the bar a fraction. Again I've seen the top rail back against the bonnet on a Disco. That thing seemed to be a sloppy fit.

Far better to fit some dedicated recovery points on the bar as close to the chassis legs as you can. Or some Jate rings.

Regards
Max P

[Jock The Rock]

I used my ARB for some serious snatching and double line winch work in my old winch challange 90 . I fitted two swival tow eyes as you can see in the picture. They worked really well and gave you a good place to attc with a shackle. Also more of a chance of seeing these in mud than the eyes under the bumper :) BTWi have always used the two eyes on the front of the bumper with the Hi lift for jacking the car up ( with the Hi lift defender adapter)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/485.jpg

Hey mate

Where would I find a couple of those swivel tow eyes?

Thanks

[Reads90]

Hey mate

Where would I find a couple of those swivel tow eyes?

Thanks

i got thoses from scrap iron racing

http://www.scorpionracing.co.uk/OFFROAD/Products%20images/cats/rec/reyes/Sreyesgroup.jpg

http://www.scorpionracing.co.uk/

[Wortho]

As has been said they are Hi-Lift jacking points and for putting your winch cable hook when doing a double line pull, they were not designed as recovery points nor are they advertised as recovery points, Snatching and winching are two very different things.

[JohnR]

From ARB: They are designed as straight pull recovery points and should not be used for a sideways recovery for fear of twisting a chasis rail. I do think they say this just to cover their ass. Because any lateral load on one chasis rail by itself has potential to do damage no matter how good your recovery points are.

As for recovery it is the same as any standard lifting practices a straight lift (pull) is allways the best but if you can share the lift this also halves the load on any given point. Therefore if posible use a sling between the points to minimise possible damage.

There is no way of saying that you will never do damage as there are allways too many variables to give a generic rule but I use these points with confidence and the proper gear.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/04/1157.jpg

Cheers,

[tony]

What a load of never mind, I have use those eyes both with and without a strap between them for years, both as winch points and snatch points,

they will bend side ways if you pull at an acute angle, the top of the bar will be pulled towards the bonnett if the bar isint bolted up FT,

I'v never seen one rip out of the bar,

but fit a nice set off swivel eyes looks much cooler....

t

[Scallops]

From ARB: They are designed as straight pull recovery points and should not be used for a sideways recovery for fear of twisting a chasis rail. ...

That was the quote from the young kid on the showroom floor - I rang the State manager to confirm their comments and was categorically told - NO - not to be used as recovery points. The manager then contacted Cooper's Plains ARB to instruct them to stop giving customers erroneous info about using the winch hook rings as recovery points.

[Reads90]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/04/1157.jpg

Cheers,

BTW really nice looking defender

[leeds]

Have no idea about ARB winch bumpers and their recovery points. In the UK we have a Devon 4 x 4 winch bumper on the Disco and on the 110. This is a close up of the eye on the Disco winch bumper

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/437.jpg

Are the ARB ones constructed the same way? Or are they just welded to the bumper?

If bolted and welded I would say they were recovery points. If just welded to the bumper winch hook retaining eyes.

I will inspect the eyes on my 110 as I assumed that they were recovery eyes but will check it out.

Regards


Brendan

[JohnR]

That was the quote from the young kid on the showroom floor - I rang the State manager to confirm their comments and was categorically told - NO - not to be used as recovery points. The manager then contacted Cooper's Plains ARB to instruct them to stop giving customers erroneous info about using the winch hook rings as recovery points.

Heh Dan, I get the feeling he's covering his ass in this world of littigation that we live in. I am just guessing but the costs involved in getting NATA to aprove them as rated points would add a lot to their development costs. So it is probibly a lot easier to recomend another product that has already gone through this process. If you look at the way they are constructed, it is good. I have had some fairly hefty pulls from these points and not one indication of stress at all.

What we need is an engineer to give a "rough" estimate of the breaking point of this thickness flat steel with a pipe welded into it for strength. Then if you put a safety fact of 10 onto the estimate you would get an idea of where we stand. Of course you would also have to look at the sheer point of the bolts holding the bullbar on to ensure it was not less. But then again most other points will be mounted off these same bolts anyway. Know any good engineers???? :p

Tony makes a good point though... The swivel ones look bling :D :cool:

Cheers,

[philco]

interesting thread, y not just get the local welding guy to weld on some 8mm steel angle or plate to those points and give it more strength?? if you are really worried it will break.

[Grover-98]

This thread was a good read! i have a TJM bar with these eyes. When i got underneath and had a look there is no welding the eyes are at the end or what appears to be an extension from the Chassie rails to the bull bar. There are a significant amount of bolts.

After reading this thread i have heard yes do it no dont its up to you etc...

So should i go for it use an equaliser strap to spread the load, should i be replacing the bolts with some 8.8 HT?

Cheers James.

[leeds]

This thread was a good read! i have a TJM bar with these eyes. When i got underneath and had a look there is no welding the eyes are at the end or what appears to be an extension from the Chassie rails to the bull bar. There are a significant amount of bolts.

After reading this thread i have heard yes do it no dont its up to you etc...

So should i go for it use an equaliser strap to spread the load, should i be replacing the bolts with some 8.8 HT?

Cheers James.

My reading of the above then if you have an off direct in line pull then you stand a chance of bending/twisting the recovery eye. Could the recovery eye be welded to the bumper/bar? Would help eliminate the twisting effect.

Using a bridle strap spreads the load between the two eye reduces the loading on each eye. However if I remember triange of forces correctly there will be a inward force between the eyes. So if recovery force is high enough you might bend the long recovery eyes inwards as well.

Regards

Brendan

[JamesH]

I've got one of these ARB bars and I asked if they were recovery points and I was told by ARB they'd be fine but a bridle strap would be a good idea. Not worth the aper it is written on, I know.

It's a shonky answer if anything goes wrong but I am satisfied becasue I now have the bridle and don't do the kind of four wheel driving that sees me up to my door handles in mud (sounds fun but I just want my new insurance company to get used to me after my write off). I'd hope not to get seriously stuck. More than likely it will be on a beach somewhere "lightly bogged" if I need to be snatched.

Maybe one day I'll have the car in at ARB getting something done and I'll ask them to chuck some jate rings on while they're down there but until then those hi-lift rings and a bridle will do for me.

PS Leeds the ARB bars that we are talking about are replacement bars. The SOE front bumber is removed and the ARB bar takes its place..

[RMB3218]

I've got a pair of jate rings of my 07 Fender, which I no longer have. Anyone interested PM me.