New Defender towing

[A G]

I am looking at a new defender as a vehicle to tour Australia towing a 2 ton van. Whilst the dealers say they will walk away with that van, they make no comments if they can run with one. Wondering from existing owners.

1. How do they go towing this weight?

2. What sort of fuel consumption?

3. Problems I can expect from a new defender (Puma)

4. How do you go about services once out in the bush with limited dealers now left.

and any other information you can provide

[Blknight.aus]

it'll do alright but wont be uber fast.

it'll run between 12+15l/100km depending on your boot size

search the forum and you'll find threads covering this but to highlight a few
1. leaking vac pump
2. potential transmission problem
3. fuel system issues
4. front diff hitting the engine sump
5. brake lines + resivior chafing

plan your route so that you can get you mandated dealer servicings done at one of the dealers Australias big but its not so big that you can drive across it keeping near the main highways without being within cooee of somewhere that is a landys authorised service agent.

[PAT303]

My old ones tows OK,up hills it won't keep up with a V8 cruiser but it doesn't drink 20ltrs per hundred either.Don't worry about dealers,everyone in Kal goes to Ultra tune,it's an owner operator shop and the bloke who runs it gives better service and knows more than any dealer I've ever been too and you will get parts quicker for your LR than you will from tojo or nissan,I know that because I have three LR's at home and five tojo's at work,Toyota have a very limited store of parts at dealers so in the west most parts are a week ago in the east.You can get the puma chipped too and the retail price and running costs are alot cheaper than any jap 4wd. Pat

[PAT303]

All the above troubles are known and would not be an issue on a 09 vehicle. Pat

[dullbird]

have a look at the 07 defender sticky recalls and bulletins that will highlight some of the problems that have been found and delt with

[PAT303]

Honestly if we all believed the troubles non Land Rover owners claim none of us would be LR owners.I'm still waiting for my Defender and Disco to spontanously combust and they have 700,000k's between them. Pat

[BilboBoggles]

All of those issues no longer exist on the MY09 model. (I've got one and can confirm that.)

Only problem I've got is that the body panels on one side are not aligned properly. But that's a feature of the olde defenders too.

[camel_landy]

All the above troubles are known and would not be an issue on a 09 vehicle. Pat

+1...

M

[camel_landy]

Honestly if we all believed the troubles non Land Rover owners claim none of us would be LR owners.I'm still waiting for my Defender and Disco to spontanously combust and they have 700,000k's between them. Pat

:D

Need to take comments from doom & gloom mongers with a pinch of salt...;)

Although the engineering guys do work VERY hard to make things perfect, you have to be realistic and expect one or two niggles.

M

[dullbird]

I think he is asking if there are any problems to look out for

So not sure why we got on to the whole people not owning landrovers crapping on about them....:lol2:

[PAT303]

Because thats were the rumours start. Pat

[dullbird]

Because thats were the rumours start. Pat

maybe pat but he never came in saying I heard this and I heard that he asked if they had any problems:)......

I think it was a general question just like it is in any other section....when someone is or is seriously considering buying a landy

[JohnR]

We have an 07 and the only problem that caused us any serious concern was the vacum pump leak. All fixed and no other serious stuff.
We tow lots of things from race cars to heavy camper trailers box trailers with dirt and no issues. We can easily cruise at 115kph without any drama's. Highway towing delivers between 11-12 L/100, so prity good.
LR Servicing has been great for us as well.
Don't listen to all the scare mungers they are great cars.

Cheers,

[solmanic]

...We can easily cruise at 115kph without any drama's...

That would be in the Northern Territory wouldn't it John ;)

[JohnR]

Depends....... There are 110kph speed limits in Qld and our Cops tend to be nice enough to abide by the ADR's that state a speedo can be incorrect by 10% therefore if you stretch the limits of how much you can get away with I still could have gone another 6kph faster! :D

Or maybe I did :wasntme: who knows they didn't catch me :angel:

Cheers,

[dmdigital]

1. How do they go towing this weight? Won't bat an eyelid. I towed a 1.5t Kimberley 4500km with a brand new Puma. 680km of this was dirt track

2. What sort of fuel consumption? Averaged 13.6L/100km. This was when the car was brand new.

3. Problems I can expect from a new defender (Puma) See other posts

4. How do you go about services once out in the bush with limited dealers now left. Get a good collection of contacts (eg. AULRO.com), subscribe to GTR and print it out. If you are really worried get a diagnostic unit that will let you view and clear ECU faults. I am one of the more remote members

[Ruslan]

Hi A G,

1. How do they go towing this weight? - I towed a 1.5t Kimberley 4500km with our 2004 TD5 in October last year. Tombraider's ECU upgrade, Vortex muffler. Never missed, going long up-hill... umm sweet, sometimes like nothing on tow hook; our friends V8 Landcruiser and Patrol GU both with Kimberleys far far behind.

2. What sort of fuel consumption? - Averaged for the trip 11.3L/100km. This is sitting between 90 and 100 km/h

4. How do you go about services once out in the bush with limited dealers now left. - Do it youself if you can't wait to get to nearest dealers workshop.

A new Puma should be the same or better, I think.

[uninformed]

so what happens if a die hard landy owner craps on them....do i get run out of town :p

i cant comment on the engine or gearbox, i have a 300tdi defender.

i can say, the chassis is more than upto it, the running gear (diffs/axles and transfercase) will be fine... be warned though the axles and diff are known to be weak links in the LR drive train. the transfercase is known for its stoutness.

having a low first gear of 63-1 will be great for slow speed manovering of the trailer, steep climbs/decents and the ability to be able to safely use low range on the road without transmission wind up is a great benefit.

wind nose may be a little high depending what you are use to.

brakes are pretty good, but i would think the caravan will have some sort of braking. Electric is good

if the headlight wiring is still the same, look for the wiring kits that "drivesafe" does on here. they are a great improvement.

i would aslo recommend installing a EGT gauge...


cheers, Serg

[briann]

Serg
Please give more detail on the EGT gauge you mention. What are you measuring and why. Where do you get the instrument and where is transducer mounted?
Brian

[uninformed]

Serg
Please give more detail on the EGT gauge you mention. What are you measuring and why. Where do you get the instrument and where is transducer mounted?
Brian

ThermoGuard Instruments (http://www.thermoguard.com.au/)

EGT = exhaust gas tempreture, which can give an idication of how hot the head is running, which wont show up on your water temp gauge, untill its too late....

its more complex than that, but go to that link and search EGT's on this site, there will be lots...

Serg

[rick130]

so what happens if a die hard landy owner craps on them....do i get run out of town :p

<snip>

cheers, Serg

Naa, we just sentence you to driving a Hisux for a couple of weeks :D

[uninformed]

for all those of you that are towing with defenders, even older ones.

how many have EGT gauges?

sendor before or after turbo?

how many are still using the stock tempreture gauge?


YES THEY WILL TOW IT, but all this talk about it being a walk in the park, or like theres nothing there is BS.

Serg

[dullbird]

for all those of you that are towing with defenders, even older ones.

how many have EGT gauges?

sendor before or after turbo?

how many are still using the stock tempreture gauge?


YES THEY WILL TOW IT, but all this talk about it being a walk in the park, or like theres nothing there is BS.

Serg

:lol2: think you will find there are a fair few on here with egt guages...thats what most drive off

[uninformed]

yep im sure there is, thats i asked.

i want to know what the EGT's are when towing 1.5tonne at 115km/hr

Serg

[incisor]

from memory my 300tdi did upto 580 up a loong hill where speed varied from 125kph at bottom to 95 odd kph up the top pulling just under 2 tonnes of trailer and about 400kg in the back of the truck

[uninformed]

from memory my 300tdi did upto 580 up a loong hill where speed varied from 125kph at bottom to 95 odd kph up the top pulling just under 2 tonnes of trailer and about 400kg in the back of the truck

was it stock?

was the sensor before or after the turbo?

was it summer or winter?

Serg

[dullbird]

and what colour pants inc :D

[discowhite]

the ones he wares on the inside or the outside:eek:

cheers phil

[uninformed]

just trying to get ALL the facts guys....

i just dont believe the "towed 2 tonnes like it wasnt there" statements...

i also wonder about the one where a LR a LC and a Patrol all towed kimberly's, the landrover averaged 90-100km/h AND left the LC and Patrol way behind....what does that make their average speed then...may just be more to it than the defender out towing them...

Serg

[discowhite]

i agree with serg

the 90 with all its chipping etc will dose tow heavy loads really well but its still limited by the EGT's it had all the power in the world to pull the load at 110kph up hills but the EGt's would have screamed over the safe limit.
on the other hand i have a mate with a 4.2turbo GQ who often tows cars up the waterfall way, he has stopped on 2 occasions now after smelling a ''hot metalic'' smell to find the turbo housing glowing bright orange:eek:
he isnt concerned either way.....

cheers phil

[rick130]

i agree with serg

<snip>
on the other hand i have a mate with a 4.2turbo GQ who often tows cars up the waterfall way, he has stopped on 2 occasions now after smelling a ''hot metalic'' smell to find the turbo housing glowing bright orange:eek:
he isnt concerned either way.....

cheers phil

I've read of stock GU's registering 700*+ post turbo :eek:
MTQ claimed they'd found that on a couple of GU's prior to modding the turbo and pump timing. It actually sounds like they were retarded a fair bit so it wouldn't mean piston temps were too high, but still...

[rick130]

And while I'm relatively happy with the way my 300Tdi goes, (3" exhaust, fuel turned up so that 720* can be exceeded on a long climb, 80mm hose feeding the air cleaner from the snorkel, etc) and it's loaded with gear every day, there's no doubt our stock GU does the towing and carrying thing just that little bit easier.
The Landy is a little faster (more power) and the Nissan hangs on about the same or a little better on hills (more torque, much larger capacity) and is obvioulsy better at the bottom end and in engine braking.
The Nissan is only using 7psi boost and a very restrictive exhaust.
I have to keep an eye on both water temps, and obviously an eye on the Land Rover with EGT's.
Funny thing is that the 300Tdi is actually better at idle and stall speed, but when it stalls it's instant.

[discowhite]

And while I'm relatively happy with the way my 300Tdi goes, (3" exhaust, fuel turned up so that 720* can be exceeded on a long climb, 80mm hose feeding the air cleaner from the snorkel, etc) and it's loaded with gear every day, there's no doubt our stock GU does the towing and carrying thing just that little bit easier.
The Landy is a little faster (more power) and the Nissan hangs on about the same or a little better on hills (more torque, much larger capacity) and is obvioulsy better at the bottom end and in engine braking.
The Nissan is only using 7psi boost and a very restrictive exhaust.
I have to keep an eye on both water temps, and obviously an eye on the Land Rover with EGT's.
Funny thing is that the 300Tdi is actually better at idle and stall speed, but when it stalls it's instant.

the TD5's the same! but the new jeep diesel is worse:eek:

cheers phil

[uninformed]

I've read of stock GU's registering 700*+ post turbo :eek:
MTQ claimed they'd found that on a couple of GU's prior to modding the turbo and pump timing. It actually sounds like they were retarded a fair bit so it wouldn't mean piston temps were too high, but still...


i heard that nissan was doing this on the 4.2td to reduce emissions. retard the timing which will increase EGT which will reduce emissions. they werent making the same power as before and probably not as efficent either...

Serg

[Redback]

from memory my 300tdi did upto 580 up a loong hill where speed varied from 125kph at bottom to 95 odd kph up the top pulling just under 2 tonnes of trailer and about 400kg in the back of the truck

Wish my EGTs were that low on a long uphill, mine get up too 650+, I usually have to back off the throttle or go back a gear to keep the revs up and use a trailing throttle, to get them down into the mid 500s, which slows my progress somewhat, I drive by my EGTs now, cruising on the freeway with no hills it sits around the 380 to 400c.

Chipped TD5 Disco

Baz.

[dmdigital]

Funny how little towing information there is posted here about new Defender. The new engine and gearbox make for a different tow vehicle to the older ones.

[discowhite]

well you tow dont you? wheres your info??:p

cheers phil

[Redback]

Funny how little towing information there is posted here about new Defender. The new engine and gearbox make for a different tow vehicle to the older ones.

Yeah what he said below:p


well you tow dont you? wheres your info??:p

cheers phil

Baz.

[justinc]

I've read of stock GU's registering 700*+ post turbo :eek:
MTQ claimed they'd found that on a couple of GU's prior to modding the turbo and pump timing. It actually sounds like they were retarded a fair bit so it wouldn't mean piston temps were too high, but still...

I just fitted a new engine to a GU (ZD30), it was pulling 760 upstream unladen up a moderate hill in about half a km:eek: on a test drive:eek::eek:

It felt like it would easily see 800+, and the owner pulls a 20ft van , so EEEKKKK:eek::eek::eek:

He watches it like a hawk now, and is stunned at how much heat there must've been there when towing with the old engine...

Getting back to the original Q, the customers I have with '09 models are VERY happy, you couldn't prise them from the drivers seat for anything.
They all report excellent fuel economy, and at least one of them actually loads it right up AND beats it to death in the bush regularly.

I'd say go for it!!

JC

[uninformed]

it would be great to see some EGT's from the new puma towing.

Serg

[discowhite]

ok then, so why dont the 300tdi's see the same EGT's as the TD5's? i would have thought that the newer more suffisticated engine would have been more efficent at lowering EGT's??


cheers phil

[rick130]

ok then, so why dont the 300tdi's see the same EGT's as the TD5's? i would have thought that the newer more suffisticated engine would have been more efficent at lowering EGT's??


cheers phil

I don't think that's the case Phil, mine used to hit 623* bone stock going up a hill and I wasn't towing (but it tared out at around 2650kg).

I haven't done any decent towing since I fitted the pyro all those years ago, but I well remember towing the big neddy back from Tamworth once (float 1000kg, horse over 800kg and yes, he's he's been weighed :D + 100kg+ in tack, etc.) and it was flat to the floor the whole way to sit on 90-100km/h, and obviously it died in the backside up the hills so I was rowing down the gears to keep revs up.
The EGT's would have been over 600* the whole way, at least it was only 120km trip.

[Redback]

I have to confess that I have had the EGTs at 725c, it was the over temp alarm that made me notice this (set at 720c) of coarse I quickly backed off too bring them down, but it's so easy to do when towing a load and my camper is only 1.3/1.5ton.

Now apparently 750c is the max, I'm assuming that this max is for long periods at and over this temp is what will do long term damage and not the occasionly time you get up that high:confused:

Baz.

[discowhite]

[quote=rick130;929010]I don't think that's the case Phil, mine used to hit 623* bone stock going up a hill and I wasn't towing (but it tared out at around 2650kg).

without a trailer on, both LRH's modded 300tdi rangie and my brothers 300tdi disco will sit at least 200deg cooler than the 90 at the same speeds. and i havent really herd any 300tdi owners with high EGT temps?
it just seems to be easier to get a TD5 hotter quicker than a tdi.

cheers phil

[rick130]

[quote=rick130;929010]I don't think that's the case Phil, mine used to hit 623* bone stock going up a hill and I wasn't towing (but it tared out at around 2650kg).

without a trailer on, both LRH's modded 300tdi rangie and my brothers 300tdi disco will sit at least 200deg cooler than the 90 at the same speeds. and i havent really herd any 300tdi owners with high EGT temps?
it just seems to be easier to get a TD5 hotter quicker than a tdi.

cheers phil

Geez, that's the difference between measuring pre and post turbo :confused:

Some reckon it's easy to get a false reading in the 300Tdi as the EGR port can shield the probe somewhat from the bulk of the gas flow, also a 3mm probe will register faster than the 6mm most of us use.
Does any of that marry with the other two setups ?

[discowhite]

ide have to check, i run a VDO system and analog gauge the other 2 both run the thermoguard and digital gauge. my probe is 6mm and so is the thermoguard.. maybe its just in the gauges?

cheers phil

[A G]

About this time last year whilst driving between Forbes and Peak Hill in NSW I saw a green Puma towing a Tvan and travelling relatively fast. From a look on this stite it could have been Grizzly Adams returning from Cape York. Although the Tvan does not weigh 2 ton .

I thought more people would have been able to give some sort a feedback as to the towing ability of a new Landrover.

[JohnR]

About this time last year whilst driving between Forbes and Peak Hill in NSW I saw a green Puma towing a Tvan and travelling relatively fast. From a look on this stite it could have been Grizzly Adams returning from Cape York. Although the Tvan does not weigh 2 ton .

I thought more people would have been able to give some sort a feedback as to the towing ability of a new Landrover.

I Did! :D

Cheers,

[dmdigital]

well you tow dont you? wheres your info??:p

cheers phil


Yeah what he said below:p



Baz.

It's back at post #16 of this thread.

[Michael2]

Hi AG. I can't comment on the PUMA, but my 300Tdi Defender tows alot better than my Range Rover Classic, even though it has a smaller motor.

A while ago it powered up a steepish hill without dropping from the 80kph speed limit, towing a tandem tipper trailer. The weighbridge at the tip that day had us at 4,500kg (vehicle & trailer). So I don't think a new PUMA would have trouble with 2,000kg.

[discowhite]

It's back at post #16 of this thread.

what about EGT's? youve got all the bells and whistles on the 110, or just not that one??

cheers phil

[dmdigital]

what about EGT's? youve got all the bells and whistles on the 110, or just not that one??

cheers phil

Don't worry it's on the list, just not high on the list. I don't think the EGT is that essential provided I don't flog the engine whilst towing. From my experience so far, it tows so well I'm not overly concerned about the EGT.