recovery points standard?

[as0l0]

Hi guys,

I'm going to expose myself as a n00b on my first post, but so be it.

I picked up a new 110 about 3 weeks ago. Does it come with recovery points as standard?

I'm looking to go on the Eureka sand course in April and they say recovery points are required (and fair enough too).

[Grover-98]

I know the discovery doesn't and I'm fairly sure the Defender doesn't either. ;) as for rear recovery you can use the pin in the tow bar thats what i do :)(when recovering others :p)

[one_iota]

It depends on the definition of "recovery".

The Defender comes with points fixed to the chassis front and rear for tying down the vehicle for transport.

A dynamic recovery by winching or (worse) a snatch strap is another matter as the forces imposed on the standard points could lead to tears or worse.

If your driving off road is likely to get you into a stuck position then you will need more than the standard provision.

The usual routes on the front are via bull bar points or "jate rings" and on the rear by hitch receivers designed to fit into the tow bar.

May I suggest that you avail yourself of the "Search" facility on the forum. It makes for interesting reading. :D

There has been a couple of recent threads on this subject in the Defender section.

By the way welcome to this place. :)

[as0l0]

ripper post, thanks for the direction.

[leeds]

Hi guys,

I'm going to expose myself as a n00b on my first post, but so be it.

I picked up a new 110 about 3 weeks ago. Does it come with recovery points as standard?

I'm looking to go on the Eureka sand course in April and they say recovery points are required (and fair enough too).


Firstly welcome.

Second there is no such thing as a silly question, but there is such a thing as a stupid answer!

The lash down eyes are NOT suitable as recovery eyes.

Make sure you buy good, rated recovery items from know respected places.

Join your local Land Rover or 4 x 4 club and do not be afraid to ask questions.


Regards


Brendan

[as0l0]

yeah, nah, so checking around a bit it seems like it's not too easy to actually get recovery points. every 4wd place (in perth) seems to shy away from the Defender, but one of them pointed me toward British Parts. Anyone had any dealings with them?

[Hoges]

British Parts (presuming you're talking of the UK outfit)

Jaguar | Land Rover spare parts at British Parts UK (http://www.britishparts.co.uk/)

...I've just put an online order in ---about $1,300 worth for P38 bits. Total cost of delivery to Australia is $85. Local dealer and Karcraft quotes for same parts were in excess of $2,400...go figure.

Phoned Brit Parts a couple of times (3cents/min using dicsount phone card from Woolies) ...staff VERY helpful...they are sending stuff all over the world every day.

Recovery points:
there's good "physics" principles why the best recovery points are those attached to where the front/rear control arms join the axle.

see Technical Review of ADR (http://www.yican.com.au/ADR/TechADR.html)

Tried to contact them several times but to no avail. Soooo went to Bullivants the cable people and bought a 3m off cut of 10 mm multistrand elevator cable. Got them put a heavy duty swage it around a thimble at each end and made a simple bridle which bolts to the suspension as per the above ref URL.

If I am thinking of getting into harms way it only takes 5 mins to attach....all up cost was about $50. ...fits front or rear equally well.

cheers

[as0l0]

actually, there's a place in Perth called British Parts. British Parts (http://www.britishparts.com.au/)

thanks very much for the extra info *thumbs up*

[as0l0]

oh, i see now. Jate Rings are something I can just go and buy and fit in a few minutes. Is that correct?

Jate Rings (http://www.landroverstuff.com/jaterings.htm)

[dmdigital]

In Perth you've got Rovacraft. They should have access to most of what you need.

[as0l0]

Hey guys,

Can I ask for one more bit of advice on this?

I have 2 options available to me.

1. Wait for 6 weeks to get the JATE rings

2. Have a 4wd place (northern 4wd) swap the tie down points out for recovery points that are intended for a Prado. 4wd place says they are 100% confident with the solution

Am I better of waiting for the JATE rings?

Thanks for getting me this far.

Brad


Edit: and I'd go for this one on the back

http://www.scorpionracing.co.uk/OFFROAD/Products%20images/cats/rec/reyes/Rreyes2.jpg

[XSiV]

For the rear you can get an alloy block with a large shackle attached that goes in the square hole that your towbar sits in. It is easily removable when you are no longer offroad.

you can get them from tjm.

[Hoges]

Hi Brad
at the risk of being "flamed" :)

I mentioned in a previous post the reference to ADR Technical...what this shows clearly is that to recover a bogged vehicle by applying force where the radius arm meets the live axle is more effective than applying the force to the chassis...you are exerting an "uplift" force at the wheels rather than trying to pull the chassis off the suspension...

see also YiCaN introduces Axle Direct Recovery. Website:www.yican.com.au (http://www.yican.com.au/ADR/ADRMain.htm)

So

My suggestion is that you accurately measure the distance between the centres of the two bolts holding the radius arm to the front axle.

Get a local machine shop to cut you two brackets from 5/16th steel plate which is drilled to fit both bolts and has a larger hole at the front to take a 4.5T shackle.

You can then purchase a 3-4 T rated swaged 9mm or 10 mm x 3m lifting sling from a crane or elevator suppliers (about $50)

This makes an excellent bridle to pull evenly. If you wish you even clamp the middle part of the bridle 500mm each side of the centre to make a "noose" through which the towing rope is attached....as per referenced article pictures

The beauty of this arrangement is that it takes only a minute or so to attach the shackles to the permanently located brackets and you have instant, mechanically sound recovery points...

[XSiV]

Nice idea Hoges, would it not be worth getting a cable rated a little bit heavier just to be safe ie 6-8 T. How much is the elevator cable you mentioned rated at? I was thinking of heading off to Bullivants and obtaining some offcut like you described.

Just buying a cable lifting sling might be a whole lot simpler though.

Thinking about it, if you attached the brackets like you mentioned you could simply attach a tree trunk protector strap with a couple of shackles instead of the cable sling.

[as0l0]

Hiya Hoges,

I'm so far behind in knowledge that your first post didn't even register in my brain. I still have almost no clue about the specifics of what you're saying, but I can now see a way to figure it out. Very much appreciated.

[Spenboyd]

gday mate there are quite a few good options in Perth, Rovacraft you already know of but also ORE in Midland, speak to Jeremy and Central 4WD in welshpool carry rated 'tow' points that you can recover off.

There is a Guy called Russ at Opposite Lock in Myaree who is a bit of a Landy guru as well

It is always a good idea to use a bridle between the two rated tow points when recovering.

oh and welcome

[as0l0]

Thanks for the tips Spenboyd. Looks like I've had a stroke of luck. Local Land Rover shop can get JATE rings in 2 weeks. That means I can go do my Eureka course and then have a good proper think about the posts here. Will be 1 million times better than attaching a Prado part to my Defender.

[Hoges]

Thinking about it, if you attached the brackets like you mentioned you could simply attach a tree trunk protector strap with a couple of shackles instead of the cable sling.


I preferred the steel cable because dragging the tree protector through mud/sand etc causes abrasion -> weakening of the strap.

Bullivants are an excellent source. The steel cable sling I got was rated at three tons (min).

I'm not a fan of snatch straps...too dangerous, lotza damage in the wrong hands. Can't always trust the bloke in the other vehicle. what's more they put enormous stresses on both vehicles.

Slow and steady pulling + lifting "by the bootstraps" is much easier.
Put it another way, when you put your back into trying to shift a bogged car, the usual reaction is to try to "lift" and "push/pull" at the same time.


When you think about it, the rolling force needed to shift a vehicle is a lot less than the weight of the vehicle... Think about the advert of the car towing the B747 out of the hangar..

6-8Ton for example is way past the structural limit of the tow hitch of normal 4WD vehicles.

JATE rings look terrific /tough! on big army trucks etc they're probably the right choice. However when affixed to our type of vehicle they don't overcome the inevitable problem of a shearing force created through the suspension /chassis linkages as the chassis is pulled one way while the bog retains the wheels...

Same criticism of using the towbar...it doesn't get over the need to pull the vehicle up by the bootstraps as it were....


A simple rectangular bracket of 8mm steel plate rounded off at each corner say 100 mm x 60mm with a hole at one end for the front axle/radius rod bolt and a (slightly) larger hole for the shackle (leaving plenty of "meat" around each hole) should do the trick...leave the bracket in place, just connect the shackle /sling when needed!

cheers

[Hoges]

PS : asOIO

I would be keen to hear how you find your new 110...for noise/ride etc. Been lusting after a dark blue one for sale here in Bris. However SWMBO just getting used to the P38. But the Def110 is a REAL "shed on wheels" ...and every boy needs a shed! :D;):twisted:

[as0l0]

As a car, it's noisy and has a horrible ride...but this is exactly what I was looking for. I used to drive trucks and loved the job, but it never paid enough for me to stay in the industry. Driving the Defender is about as close as it gets to having your own personal truck.

It's not good at anything (on road) and you really have to drive it all the time. Once again, exactly what I wanted.

I don't know if it's better or worse than previous Defender models since I have nothing to compare to.

I've been wanting a Defender for around 5 years before I finally got one. I have a feeling I got one just in time since they will probably wreck it with the upcoming rebuild.

[Hoges]

Excellent! thanks ;) :twisted:

[XSiV]

PS : asOIO

I would be keen to hear how you find your new 110...for noise/ride etc. Been lusting after a dark blue one for sale here in Bris. However SWMBO just getting used to the P38. But the Def110 is a REAL "shed on wheels" ...and every boy needs a shed! :D;):twisted:

If you want a 'Shed on Wheels' you can't beat the 130. You still have 5 seats but you can load a tonne and a half of shed stuff on the back. ;).

Just as noisy and 'fun' to drive but you can customise the back to any need you have. I don't think I'll ever change vehicle unless some catastrophy forces me to.

[as0l0]

hey guys,

my JATE rings arrived today, but they did not arrive with JATE ring bolts :eek:

apparently it should be a piece of cake to get suitable bolts from coventrys, but just wanted to warn anyone who's ordering JATE rings and expecting the bolts to come with them.

[discowhite]

hey guys,

my JATE rings arrived today, but they did not arrive with JATE ring bolts :eek:

apparently it should be a piece of cake to get suitable bolts from coventrys, but just wanted to warn anyone who's ordering JATE rings and expecting the bolts to come with them.

your probably supposed to use the exsisting bolt for tie down points?
if not any 6-7'' long M10-12 12.9 grade cap head bolt will do;)

cheers phil

[as0l0]

your probably supposed to use the exsisting bolt for tie down points?
if not any 6-7'' long M10-12 12.9 grade cap head bolt will do;)

cheers phil

i was thinking that the tie down bolts would be rated, or even strong...but thankyou very much for the tips. *thums up*

[discowhite]

i was thinking that the tie down bolts would be rated, or even strong...but thankyou very much for the tips. *thums up*

there deffinatly strong enough, there a 8.8 grade metric bolt. i like the cap head as its a higher grade, it cant hurt to have a higher shear strength.

cheers phil

[scarry]

When i went to ARB to enquire about a bull bar, they were certain i can be pulled straight from the bar...
does anyone do this or agree with this?

[malsgoing130]

i had to winch a mate (jeep) up the face of a very soft dune over the past week end, and after having read this thread was a bit concerned about the strength of the ARB bull bar. Had my 10000lbs warn on the last coil on the drum as wellas thru a snatch block hooked back onto a shackle thru those small "recovery" eyes on the bottom of the bar. It worked like a charm- read this as the bar is still connected to the vehicle and the eyes are intact. Snatching might be a different issue though!
Mal

[scarry]

Hmm interesting. The ARB dealer was no if's or but's about it. He said you can pull from it no worries..
yes i guess snatching would be anothe game..

I have seen guys put some sort of Jate ring protruding straight from the bar itself. I wonder if they recover off those too :eek:

Thanks anyway my friend

[malsgoing130]

Just another thought, many years ago the ARB cataloge front cover was a Hi Lux suspended from a Helicopter by its bull bar recovery eyes. Now my thinking is because that was a non airbag bull bar probably the closest you will get to a defender type bar, it should do the same job, the only thing that could let you down are the bolts?
I am going to reinforce mine as they are a little stretched.
Mal