starting issues

[2_door]

okay guys, have a curly one for you.

for the last week or so, the love of my life (thats my 2 door) has been very tempermental when I want to start it.

It was whirring at times but not engaging the starter motor and sometimes there was just nothing, not a click, nothing.

So I thought of the obvious and replaced the starter motor yesterday and it started first bang, no problems. Yahoo, I'm a genius....but not so quick

Today when I go to start it, its back to is old tricks....whirring sometimes and sometimes nothing not even a click!

so out I get with the voltmeter and SWMBO sitting behind the steering wheel with the look of death, you know the one, WHAT AM I DOING HERE :twisted:

anyway, back to me, the starter relay has power and is switching fine. it tests fine with 12v and you can hear/feel it clicking. so under the old girl I go with my trusty voltmeter and start testing. Yep, have 12v from the battery. Yep have 12v from the ignition switch, yep have 12v for the starter second contact (holds the solenoid in or something).

so, if I have power everywhere, WHY THE HELL WONT IT START :eek:

sorry, lost it there for a sec.

okay, so I start fiddling with wires, checking contacts and then bang, it starts. SWMBO jumps thru the roof and the look worsens...she actually starts the dreaded machine :angel:

so, my question is. What else is there in the starting system could be playing up? the workshop manual shows basically the ignition switch, battery, starter relay and the starter motor. if they all test okay but dont work, then all of a sudden they do for no apparent reason, what could it be????

please explain :(

[Rangier Rover]

okay guys, have a curly one for you.

for the last week or so, the love of my life (thats my 2 door) has been very tempermental when I want to start it.

It was whirring at times but not engaging the starter motor and sometimes there was just nothing, not a click, nothing.

So I thought of the obvious and replaced the starter motor yesterday and it started first bang, no problems. Yahoo, I'm a genius....but not so quick

Today when I go to start it, its back to is old tricks....whirring sometimes and sometimes nothing not even a click!

so out I get with the voltmeter and SWMBO sitting behind the steering wheel with the look of death, you know the one, WHAT AM I DOING HERE :twisted:

anyway, back to me, the starter relay has power and is switching fine. it tests fine with 12v and you can hear/feel it clicking. so under the old girl I go with my trusty voltmeter and start testing. Yep, have 12v from the battery. Yep have 12v from the ignition switch, yep have 12v for the starter second contact (holds the solenoid in or something).

so, if I have power everywhere, WHY THE HELL WONT IT START :eek:

sorry, lost it there for a sec.

okay, so I start fiddling with wires, checking contacts and then bang, it starts. SWMBO jumps thru the roof and the look worsens...she actually starts the dreaded machine :angel:

so, my question is. What else is there in the starting system could be playing up? the workshop manual shows basically the ignition switch, battery, starter relay and the starter motor. if they all test okay but dont work, then all of a sudden they do for no apparent reason, what could it be????

please explain :(
You say it has power everywhere.
Try this... Next time it has a wizzy fit take the small wire off the solenoid on starter and then bridge the big battery contact to the small contact on solenoid. Make sure it is out of gear:eek: A bit dangerous but easily done from under the rangie.

If this works you may have an issue between start Relay and Starter. Is it an Auto?


Tony

[PhilipA]

You have a bad earth or positive connection.
Go through all of the earths and positives between the battery and starter, and include the small earth behind the starter from the cbody to motor.

A quick check would be just to put a start jumper lead from the battery neg to starter body or bolt and see if it starts after failure, and ditto positive to starter pos terminal. That may tell you whether it is an earth or pos problem.
Regards Philip A

[2_door]

You have a bad earth or positive connection.
Go through all of the earths and positives between the battery and starter, and include the small earth behind the starter from the cbody to motor.

A quick check would be just to put a start jumper lead from the battery neg to starter body or bolt and see if it starts after failure, and ditto positive to starter pos terminal. That may tell you whether it is an earth or pos problem.
Regards Philip A

umm, there is no earth wire on the starter :eek: shoud there be :(

it has multiple +ves on the big terminal (from the battery/alt & dash) and a big spade connector and a small spade connector from the starter relay. thats it. no earth wires :( should it?

but this is the way it always has been and it has only just started playing up so I assume there is no missing wire...unless I have lost it on a track somwhere with a stick pulling it off

[Rangier Rover]

umm, there is no earth wire on the starter :eek: shoud there be :(

it has multiple +ves on the big terminal (from the battery/alt & dash) and a big spade connector and a small spade connector from the starter relay. thats it. no earth wires :( should it?

but this is the way it always has been and it has only just started playing up so I assume there is no missing wire...unless I have lost it on a track somwhere with a stick pulling it off
Philip A is correct.. There should be an earth lead or strap going from engine asy to the body and possible to be the problem. Look under the front of foot wells. If earth is dodgy it wont have amperage to crank.

They earth battery to body then to engine. As suggested ...Try the jumper lead from Battery - to engine.

[mike 90 RR]

umm, there is no earth wire on the starter :eek: shoud there be :(

Your OK ... starter motor / solenoid earth's out to the engine ...

[HangOver]

I have a similar problem with my 2 door now and again and its always the earth lead on the battery.
Remove the strap from the earth terminal, clean the battery terminal with a wire brush and the strap with whatever you have, I give it a light file with a round file. Then tighten it up to FT standards ;)

[2_door]

thanks guys. I thought the starter motor earthed thru the engine, but being new to LR, anything is possible when you talk about the dreaded Lucas system ;)

Yes, there are earth straps to the motor and body from both batteries so I dont expect that would be a problem.

will try to start it later to see what sort of a mood its in today :D

[British Bulldog]

Hey mate
Had same problem with my 85 4 door. After two days of pulling half the electrical system apart and playing swapsies with the three satrter motors I had, i found the problem. On the starter motor you have a single lead which comes from the starter motor and goes on to a spade terminal oin top. Try pulling this off and then squash it a little with some pliers and put it back on it will be tight but that is what caused the problem.
It then starterd bang straight away so I replaced this with a new one and have not had a problem since.
Regards
Kris

[PhilipA]

AFAIR , if the small wire is loose , you get nothing at the starter, as this is the trigger from the ign to solonoid.

The problem here seems to be no current available which is involved with the BIG wires and earths.

Regards Philip A

[2_door]

thanks guys for all your help. It started first go today, bloody thing. I think its waiting till I get to the local shopping centre b4 it dies again, I think it likes the attention :p

will keep you updated. I am reluctant to mess around with it while its working :(

[The Mutt]

I had an intermitant starting problem with my Isuzu diesel, (whiring, clicking, nothing) I checked all the wiring everything seemed fine, the earths were good and clean, an auto elec mate ran the starter solinoid wire through a relay and used a larger wire with in-line fuse directly from the battery. He said the wire didn't run sufficient current probably as it was getting old. Hasn't missed a start since.

Glenn

[Rangier Rover]

I had an intermitant starting problem with my Isuzu diesel, (whiring, clicking, nothing) I checked all the wiring everything seemed fine, the earths were good and clean, an auto elec mate ran the starter solinoid wire through a relay and used a larger wire with in-line fuse directly from the battery. He said the wire didn't run sufficient current probably as it was getting old. Hasn't missed a start since.

Glenn

My 4BD1 has had the same mod done. Apparently it is a popular modification in Prince of Darkness Rovers:eek::p

Tony

[2_door]

thanks guys, its been starting without any problems. bloody prince :(

[d@rk51d3]

Had a very similar problem with my '75 2-door just a couple of weeks ago.

Voltages showed ok everywhere, sometimes started ok, other times, no action when you turned the key.


After pulling out the dash, tracing wires and joints.............. it turned out to be a dodgy battery, on it's way out.:p


I wish I had those few arvo's back again.

[2_door]

thanks for the update. I am glad to hear the Prince has left Tassie after a brief visit :D you can keep him up there ;)

[HangOver]

getting back to that engine/gbox earth strap suggestion, where is it supposed to be because I can't find one.

[The Mutt]

getting back to that engine/gbox earth strap suggestion, where is it supposed to be because I can't find one.

Your vehicle may have been setup with the negative of the battery connected to the engine directly and no other earth connection, get some earth straps and add your own from the engine block to the chassis and from the battery negative to the chassis, while it might not help with your starting problem earthing the engine on both sides to the chassis will help reduce stray electrical currents etc from creating radio static that is common on a petrol vehicle, our old 1973 Rangie was that bad I had to earth the end of the exhaust pipe, the exhaust acted like a an ariel transmitting a very annoying static (I didn't believe the guy that told me to add the exhaust earth, I was very surprised when it worked).

With any existing earths that you do have, undo the bolts and nuts, check them over for any corrosion, do a resistance test using a multimeter on the strap it'self if it is insulated wire and replace if needed.

An electrical circuit is only as good as the connections on your vehicle, earth problems are the most common problem found.

I even go as far as running a dedicated earth from my transmitter to the battery.

Glenn

[BigJon]

will help reduce stray electrical currents etc from creating radio static that is common on a petrol vehicle, our old 1973 Rangie was that bad I had to earth the end of the exhaust pipe, the exhaust acted like a an ariel transmitting a very annoying static (I didn't believe the guy that told me to add the exhaust earth, I was very surprised when it worked).


Something else for me to do now :angel:.

[The Mutt]

Something else for me to do now :angel:.

Just add a strap from the rear most clamp holding your exhaust pipe to the nearest bolt on the chassis. Test first with a jumper lead to see if it makes any difference to your vehicle with the radio and transmitter switched on, not all vehicles are electrically noisy.

Glenn

[HangOver]

Your vehicle may have been setup with the negative of the battery connected to the engine directly and no other earth connection, get some earth straps and add your own from the engine block to the chassis and from the battery negative to the chassis,

I dont really have any staring issues, other than maybe once in a blue moon i tighten the battery terminal connectors if it wont start.
You say to earth battery to chassis, I have a strap to the body, should that be sufficient?

[The Mutt]

I dont really have any staring issues, other than maybe once in a blue moon i tighten the battery terminal connectors if it wont start.


Good you don't have starting issues on a regular basis, try putting some Vasaline on the battery posts and connectors, it helps with corrosion etc.


You say to earth battery to chassis, I have a strap to the body, should that be sufficient?

It should be, I usually use the chassis, it's one big long conductor front to rear, I also connect the steel body parts front and rear to the chassis, the reason for my manic addiction to having a good earth is due to problems I've had working on friend's vehicles, a lot of newer cars nowdays have the firewall glued on (Commodore, Falcon, Etc), glue isn't a very good conductor, if a panel shop forgets to reconnect the earth ... headache time till you find the problem!

The first thing I now is check the fuse then I connect a line directly to the battery neg and the other end to the troubled equipment then test for 12v, if that fixes the problem I connect the original earth point directly to a good earth point.

Some people say I'm A.D.D. about earth lines, I prefer paranoid.

One example is the 10mm red and black lines I ran from the battery to the cargo area so the fridge won't have any problems.

Glenn

[HangOver]

a bit of talk about earthing the engine which I thought was a good idea but then i remembered its an alloy block.

So where/how can you earth it?

[d@rk51d3]

Ally may not be magnetic, but it will earth just fine.

[Blknight.aus]

for best results on a landy you should have....

earths to and from the following

battery to chassis
chassis to gearbox
chassis to engine
chassis to engine bay body work ( I generally go for the radiator panel or both wings if I cant get that
chassis to firewall
chassis to rear tub.

where practical I like to make sure that the earth lead for the gearbox or engine hangs off of a starter motor mounting bolt and connects either directly to the battery OR to the same fitting as the initial earth from the battery to the chassis.

If you are an audiophile or are running sensitive radio/computing gear then each one of those should also receive an earth lead back to the battery or the initial chassis point.


Minimum you should have.....

earth strap from battery to chassis
strap from the chassis to the engine
2 straps from the chassis to the body (one front one rear)

you can get away with....

earth from battery to engine
strap from engine to chassis