flex the 101

[101 Ron]

I found these pics someone took of my 101 on another site.
It was at Wobat flat (Yalwal about 2 year ago).
It is interesting how the thing flexes up in these pics as poor as the flex of a 101 is.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/276.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/797.jpg
I ran out of wheel travel here and had to transfer the winch cable from rear to front.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/798.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/1035.jpg
Just some more pics of the same trip
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/799.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/800.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/801.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/802.jpg

[rovercare]

Just add some diff locks, no more winching on those widdle steps:twisted:

[101RRS]

These might help - and will definitely drain the bank HST Parabolic Suspension Systems (http://www.parabolicsuspension.com/landrover/lr101.htm)

[Grover-98]

These things have got nothing on Pinzgauers :twisted:

[101RRS]

These things have got nothing on Pinzgauers :twisted:


Different vehicles for different tasks - the Pinzgauers replaced 101s in the UK and the MOD have found they are not up to the task that the 101s were designed for.

Both are great vehicles in their own ways.

Garry

[werdan]

These things have got nothing on Pinzgauers :twisted:

Maybe but I know which one I prefer to listen too. va-va-vroom!:D:D

[101 Ron]

Pinzgauers are great vehicles.
But they lack wheel travel too.
Pinzgauers have diff locks to make up for the lack of wheel travel.
The 2.5 and 2.7 petrol motors work very hard to move a pinzgauer around.
The english ones with the diesel motor should go OK, but liquid engine cooling and extra torque of the diesel I think would push the original design to the limits.
the main feature in were the pinz beats the 101 is in the portal axles giving impressive clearence whisle the 101 has a salisbury plow just off to one side.
I am finding diff locks are not every thing as I have one in the back of the 101.
Suspension flex if done right stops a vehicle tipping over into holes and allows bounce up over rock shelfs etc, as well as the extra traction with out locking things up.
There have been a few times I have almost rolled the 101 through the suspension not following the terrain............luckly the 101 as I found out many times has a very very low centre of gravity and the phoo in the drivers seat when it happens is proof of it.

[Grover-98]

The pinzgauers lockers certainly do help! and the 2.5 petrol is a great motor in the bush plenty of down low torque and the 68:1 gear reduction and portal axles plus also an incredibly low center of gravity thanks to some smart work such as a motor laying on its side. It is also very strong and things such as drive shafts are all protected in in tube chassi.

It is a each to there own situation, but at the end of the day you 101 is very nice! :)

[djam1]

How much weight did you have in it??
Put a ton in the back and do it all again

[Grover-98]

How much weight did you have in it??
Put a ton in the back and do it all again

They have a center of gravity rating higher then 45 degrees even with a ton in the back! and still have 14" clearance with the ton in the back and we have had easy a ton in it and the motor worked fine :) Its much better with a load for traction!

They have a climb ability of 73 degrees! (no i didn't get this mixed up with %!!!) but as it says in the book depended on traction obviously and thats with a load of a ton!

James.

[101 Ron]

Grover ........I am a steyr Damiler Puch fan and have driven a pinz and followed one around many times.
I learnt how to drive in a Halfinger.
The haffie in the movie .........call of the wild ......was my old mans.
so I know the deal.
The point I was getting ,the the pinz is heavy reliant on the lockers.
The 101 kills the pinz for power and torque.
The portals kill the 101 for diff clearence .
Both vehicles lack wheel travel.
Yes the 101 needs lockers because of the above.( currently got one on the back and getting one on the front)
The 101 is easier to work on (in general terms) and very light with high payload etc.
Low low of the 101 is 78 to one ...so very similar.
Both vehicles in the real world have the same gradiblitly.
Yes it comes back to personal views and real world requirements.
The vehicle I think tops both vehicles is the Tatra 503 4x4.
It has a 3.5 litre air cooled v8, portals ,lockers and the compack forward control lay out.
I dont think there is any in australia.
The back bone chassis and swing axles was copied from Tatra.
Also in the real world I find a cruiser or patrol with lift and lockers and crawer gears is very hard to stop with light loads.
The main thing is to remember is the volvo 303 s , landy 101s, and steyrs tatras and the like were doing it for miltiary when the jap 4wds were still using three speed gearboxes and and alot of these vehicles are still doing it decades later.
ron
.

[Grover-98]

Grover ........I am a steyr Damiler Puch fan and have driven a pinz and followed one around many times.
I learnt how to drive in a Halfinger.
The haffie in the movie .........call of the wild ......was my old mans.
so I know the deal.
The point I was getting ,the the pinz is heavy reliant on the lockers.
The 101 kills the pinz for power and torque.
The portals kill the 101 for diff clearence .
Both vehicles lack wheel travel.
Yes the 101 needs lockers because of the above.( currently got one on the back and getting one on the front)
The 101 is easier to work on (in general terms) and very light with high payload etc.
Low low of the 101 is 78 to one ...so very similar.
Both vehicles in the real world have the same gradiblitly.
Yes it comes back to personal views and real world requirements.
The vehicle I think tops both vehicles is the Tatra 503 4x4.
It has a 3.5 litre air cooled v8, portals ,lockers and the compack forward control lay out.
I dont think there is any in australia.
The back bone chassis and swing axles was copied from Tatra.
Also in the real world I find a cruiser or patrol with lift and lockers and crawer gears is very hard to stop with light loads.
The main thing is to remember is the volvo 303 s , landy 101s, and steyrs tatras and the like were doing it for miltiary when the jap 4wds were still using three speed gearboxes and and alot of these vehicles are still doing
it decades later.
ron
.


Well said And yes the back bone is derived from Tatra...even if the Pinzgauer is harder to work on being military it is still easier then most thats the brillient part of all of the above mentioned vehicles they are built properly to a excessive budget! I like to think our Pinz wont give us too many dramas :angel:...And the Haflingers are a great little off roader! very fun!

[101 Ron]

Playing around at Easter on the family property.
this is about as good as the flex on a 101 gets.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[101RRS]

Its better than a D3.:D

[easo]

Very impresive

[101 Ron]

The weather was half OK today and I needed to post some thing so the 101 fan club wouldnt get bored.
Gazz in WA mentioned the rear shocks in a101 limit rear wheel drop .
I had to check his out for myself.
as said before the 101 is a good piece of gear off road ,but lacks wheel travel and so it picks up wheels when needed most.
I removed the nuts holding the lower rear shocks to the axle tube and measured the bump stop clearence and shocker upwards travel.
140mm on both .....so no problems there.
The downwards travel of the shock was only 56mm as what Gazz had indicated.
The question is how would longer travel shocks affect the wheel travel of a 101 if fitted and what effects do standard shocks have on 101 off road performance.

[101 Ron]

I disconnected the rear shocks and went for a drive to one of my test places.......a nice ditch to lift wheels on.
With the lockers my 101 delivers the goods traction wise . but I know from experience a flexible suspension means a stable vehicle with less chance off roll overs and better performance.
The 101 is a bit front end heavy being a forward control vehicle and so if the front axle finds a wobat hole on one side .the vehicle will follow and want to tip over.

The same spot I drive my 130 defender over and it is hassle free.
The Defender also has a similar payload and it just flexes over nice and level.
My 101 has had the front sway bar removed years ago.
The 101 is unladen.
This what I found.

[101 Ron]

These pics are at the same spot without moving the vehicle.
The 101 has two wheels taking the weight with the rear right completely off the ground to try and max out spring ,bump stop and shocker travel.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1241.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1239.jpg
Front left with good front flex and shocker bottomed out at max travel
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
Front right bottomed out on bump stop.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1245.jpg

[101 Ron]

The front is working very well and the fact is any more flex would break the the twin front leaf parabolic springs.
The rear is a different story.

[101 Ron]

Remember the rear shocks are dis connected.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1242.jpg
The remaining bump stop travel on left hand side.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1248.jpg
The bump stop travel on the lefthand side,
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1247.jpg
Bump stop rear right handside
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1244.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1243.jpg

[101 Ron]

I checked the remaining shock travel on the rear to the axle anchor point with the rear wheel hanging in space and they were the same.
therefore in a unladen state the short downwards travel of the rear shocks do not inhibit wheel travel...........but the stiff springs do.
In a fully laden state there would be advantage in longer travel shocks , or disconnecting them.
Therefore people who thinks their 101 will flex more with a load in it will be wrong as the front flexs well to the max unladen and the rear will not flex any more or less with or with out weight due to spring stiffness and and then shock travel when laden.
The way to get more flex from a 101 is from the rear by both softer springs and longer travel springs.
the problen is the twin leaf rear springs are extremely difficult and super expensive to reproduce in a softer version and there is also little rooom to find room for a longer shocker by moving exsiting shock mounts.

[101 Ron]

That is the end of todays lesson.
the bright idea I came up with is to try and fit a set of the softer front springs on the rear and get equal flex that way.
front and rear springs are different lenghts and so the quick end of a good idea.
Ron

[DODGE]

Gday ron

After that initial chat we had i tried the same thing at work. i removed the shocks then put a bus lifter under one of the rear wheels and lifted it until it flexed and lifted the other rear wheel of the ground and yea the springs dont allow much travel. oh well back to the drawing board.:confused: but like you said i find the front works well off road. im waiting for my tax return then the rear will be getting a locker. got shown up by a landcruiser on weekend, didnt like that until i drove circles around him in deep water.

Cheers gaz

[101 Ron]

I am thinking if the standard leaves can be ground down a bit to solfen them up abit.
The problem is you need a spare set of springs to be game enough to try it.
A set of front springs in the rear could fit with mods .......as the lenght is slightly shorter.(30mm)
To get over the shocker travel problem if you do manage to get the rear to flex would mean longer shocks and the only way to get that would be by lifting the suspension a bit as so longer shocks would fit.
It is in the too hard basket at present.
A locker on the back makes all the difference as this is the end that is lifting.
Gazz what way are you going....ARB or Detroit.

[DODGE]

Gday ron

Will go the detroit in the rear. was playing around with a aftermarket shock that we have for the buses and by cutting off the top pin and welding the ring on it still alows for enough upward travel and plenty more downward. its the same diameter as the 101 shock. will get some pics and measurements during the week.

Cheers gaz

[101 Ron]

Any info on the shocks would be good if you can post it.
After having both the ARB and the Detroit .... they both have good and bad points.
The detroit is a breeze to fit and requires no wiring or hoses etc.
It does put more backlash in the drive line.
Other wise it works great in the 101.
I would be carefull with the detroit offroad with a fully loaded vehicle as to not to strain it ....ie carefull driving.
The ARB is alot more work to fit .
The Detroit shines in mud , snow and sand as it works without affecting steering.
The ARB shines on rock work as you lock it in before you need it, whisle the Detroit may want to unlock and lock back in underload and therefore places strain on itself hopping over rocks etc.

[101 Ron]

I am getting another ARB diff cover for the rear diff this time.
As with these covers it is very easy to grind the bottom of the diff housings and it supprizing how easy it is to get a bit more clearence and do a big improvement in shape to the bottom of the housing for little time and effort.
The main advantage of the cast iron cover is it will not leak oil or peel back back after the grinding sort of work.

[101 Ron]

If all goes to plan Garrycol and my self will be going on a weekend run in our 101s and with alot of other landys and jeeps too).
I will give him a go of my 101 with the lockers and different gear ratios with overdrive and see what he thinks.
It will be a big run for garry as he will have not much time for a shake down after rego......plenty of help will be around if he needs it..
It is all happening in about a month.

[clean32]

OK read every thing now i want one

[DODGE]

Sorry to go off topic but how much are the alloy diff covers? just curious. pitty im over the other side of the paddock that run would be great. didnt know garry had got his licensed. be a good run to iron out the bugs.plenty of pics hey.:D

cheers gaz

[101RRS]

Sorry to go off topic but how much are the alloy diff covers? just curious. pitty im over the other side of the paddock that run would be great. didnt know garry had got his licensed. be a good run to iron out the bugs.plenty of pics hey.:D

cheers gaz

Not yet he ain't :(.

Everyday is a surprise in the electrical department:mad:. Yesterday I found that the reason I didn't have a oil pressure light is because there is no oil pressure sender :(. I have a spare but the fittings on the oil pump have been changed. I have put in a cheap oil pressure gauge so at least I have an idea of what is going on - will fix the oil pressure light later. Still haven't got high beam - hopefully just a relay. LPG gauge always shows full even though the tank is empty. Plus I have a push switch (cannot remain on) on the console that is connected to the 12v system and operates a solenoid in the LPG system and I have absolutely no idea what it does.

Yesterday the starter motor started playing up big time and will need to come out for a servicing. Also the bearings at the top of the steering column are loose but that will have to wait for another day. Did I also say that one of my new wheel cylinders in the front left wheel has started leaking.

Other than that - I am putting in an after market heater as mine is dodgy, then put the canvas on and I am right to go.:)

Only a few days work but I have to work outside and it is cold here so that restricts things a bit.

The ARB covers are about $230 but you should be able to a lot better - I got mine for less than $200.

Garry

[101 Ron]

OK read every thing now i want one

There is always one for sale some where.
The main requirement to own one is to be a full on landrover nut.
They were a fantastic vehicle for their time and have a brillant mixture of army design and parts from the Landrover bin.
They are mostly very good and very strong design.
Age is the thing working against them now and the fact many have had hard lifes after army service because of the utility of the vehicle.
I have mine much to the way I want it now and only when I get too old to climb in and out of the cabin will I pass it onto the next person.

[101 Ron]

My diff cover cost 215 dollars and the main reason of it was I found with hard rock work offroad the one on the front is easy to dent.
Most 101 owners may not need one , but it is good insurance.
They are not alloy....but very heavy cast iron.(will take a extremely good thump)
Most rovers have the salisbury at the rear and it is not as much as a issue.
The cover needs abit of grind to clear the steering slabiliser anchor bracket on the front (or trim the bracket).
Fitting on the rear the anchor for the brake proportioning valve rod with have to be trimmed or the cover ground back a bit.
I may have a added problem of a very close clearence between the diff cover and the LPG tank.

[DODGE]

off topic again but good to here its mobile garry. my heater is a pearler. dont even use the fan. the covers sound good ron. apart from the factory fitted oil leaks,no brake booster and smoke on gear change all is good.

cheers gaz

[isuzurover]

The front is working very well and the fact is any more flex would break the the twin front leaf parabolic springs.
The rear is a different story.

I think you are underestimating the parabolics there. They should be able to flex quite a bit more than that without any reliability issues. Genuine LR springs are made from very good steel IME.

Looks like some longer front shocks would help a lot. You could possibly also move the bump stop up slightly (or shave it if they aren't too expensive to replace).

EDIT:
These parabolics flex a lot better - and didn't break from all accounts.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[tas101fc]

looking at those pics Ron the problem seem to be axle droop more than anything.

Mabye some longer spring hangers with lateral suport will let the wheel drop more and give a little more clearence before hitting the bump stop!!

Would not recommend a full on lift as such as it hard enough to get in the cab as is.

Good to hear you and Garry Col are getting together for a trip you 2 will hit it off as you are both top blokes.

ps garry you must work on the 101 with one hand and type on the laptop with the other as you are giving the forums a flogging both AULRO and 101 Club.

Cheers TAS101fc:)

[Grover-98]

I think you are underestimating the parabolics there. They should be able to flex quite a bit more than that without any reliability issues. Genuine LR springs are made from very good steel IME.

Looks like some longer front shocks would help a lot. You could possibly also move the bump stop up slightly (or shave it if they aren't too expensive to replace).

EDIT:
These parabolics flex a lot better - and didn't break from all accounts.
http://www.difflock.com/buyersguide/newproducts/gone2far/109_2.jpg

Wow i want that amount of flex out of the 80! so longer shocks parabolics and shaved bump stops aye...;)

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/277.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1484.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1483.jpg

[rovercare]

Nice pics......needs more wheel travel, or atleast some:D

Would be an eery feeling in a cab over?

[Grover-98]

Nice pics......needs more wheel travel, or atleast some:D

Would be an eery feeling in a cab over?

Yeap! it is a very different feeling, i have a Pinzgauer but it is the same kinda vehicle in the way it behaves offroad... and this morning we discovered its limits and laid it on its side :(

[101RRS]

and this morning we discovered its limits and laid it on its side :(

No major damage I hope - pics????

Garry

[Grover-98]

No major damage I hope - pics????

Garry

No terminal damage was done to the Pinz just a couple new dents which is a little bit of a shame as is was in such perfect condition, and the only real damage was my phone which was destroyed in the process due to a jerry filled with water leaked and flooded my phone :(

And it was mums first time 4x4ing... i think it will be a while before we get her back in the Pinz!

I didn't take photos as i was more concerned to get people out and get the Pinz back on its feet but there were many others filming and taking photos so i will be sure to post them up as soon as possible.

James.

[101RRS]

Who was driving? If you - are you in the bad books??;)

Garry

[101 Ron]

F/C Landies and Pinz and some others have a habit of falling over cause the suspension doesn't follow the ground very well.
A rigid chassis doesn't help as well.
I know with the 101 after some close calls not to let the front wheels drop in to any big holes going down hill on one side or the other as the vehicle will tend to follow.
It is hard to have a high payload for vehicle weight and a suspension with a lot of flex.
I if possible try to attack a obstacle head on.

[Grover-98]

Who was driving? If you - are you in the bad books??;)

Garry

Dad was driving at the time so no bad books for me, but he did comment i should of naved for him rather then letting someone else who doesn't know the vehicle. But this was something we knew was going to happen in time im just happy he was the first to do it so when i have my first fall in the Pinz he wont be able to get cross with me :)

So i have come up with a couple rules for the Pinz, only dad or myself nav for it from now on and we will use a strap on the rear corners to help hold it from going over so easy :)


Ron- We also try to tackle things as square as possible usually as we dont have to worry about clearance.


James.

[101RRS]

In my limited offroad use of my 101 thus far I have felt the light back end skitter around, particularly going downhill. Seeing your pics in the other thread and Ron's pic has reminded me to be careful and read the road with wheel lift in mind.

Garry