Plane tragics???

[V8Ian]

Do any plane enthusiasts know what the four engined military jets, buzzing around RAAF Amberley, are?

[Treads]

Do any plane enthusiasts know what the four engined military jets, buzzing around RAAF Amberley, are?

How big are they?

[B92 8NW]

If its a turbofan, C-17 Globemaster, turboprop then AP-3C or Hercules...

unless they've come from elsewhere.

[FenianEel]

Your probably looking at the C-17 Globemasters I'd say
Awesome aircraft, not sure they "buzz around" though.:D
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/425.jpg

[JDNSW]

If they are very big and high wing C17 Globemaster or a visiting C5a

Otherwise, possibly the most likely is the 707 tankers if they are still operating.

John

[V8Ian]

Your probably looking at the C-17 Globemasters I'd say
Awesome aircraft, not sure they "buzz around" though.:D
http://www.airforce.gov.au/aircraft/images/globemaster/c17-cut.jpg
That's them, I'm sure they "buzz" my house. I wasn't aware that we had taken delivery of ant yet. There is about 100 acres of construction happening, largely for the C17 s. Surely they are not the replacement for the Carrabou (sp?).

[V8Ian]

How big are they?
Big and low enough to make one duck!!:o:D:D

[JohnF]

Surely they are not the replacement for the Carrabou (sp?).


The Aircraft magazines in our local Library say that the Alenia [not sure of the spelling] CJ27 Spartan is the most likely replacement for the Carrabou, but has not been ordered by the government as yet.

One day recently I was at Coolongatta beach when a C17 with all girl crew did a number of very low fly-overs, looking as if they were barely above the tallest skyscrapers. Read the next day in a local Paper that this all girl crew were doing practice touch and goes at the local Coolongatta airport.

[FenianEel]

That's them, I'm sure they "buzz" my house. I wasn't aware that we had taken delivery of ant yet. There is about 100 acres of construction happening, largely for the C17 s. Surely they are not the replacement for the Carrabou (sp?).

Not the Caribou! They'd fit a few of them inside.
They take about 4 times the payload of a C-130 Herc.
Had 4 of them since Nov 06, at 36 SQN Amberley, and there's more to come.
Blknight had a post on here, of him loading one up once.
I think BBC also had pics of them landing on the dirt strip in Tarin Kowt.;)

[Phoenix]

They have ordered 4 more beechcraft to replace teh caribou. That's like replacing a peacock with a sparrow!!!

the C-27 spartan would be a good replacement because it has common parts with the hercs, but they seem dead set on not ordering replacements at the moment.

But I suppose replacing the F-18 and F-111 is taking the lion's share of the $$$ at the moment.

[V8Ian]

So will the C17 augment the Caribou and/or its replacement?

[V8Ian]

Read the next day in a local Paper that this all girl crew were doing practice touch and goes at the local Coolongatta airport.
That's what they seem to be doing here.

[Phoenix]

The C17 augments the existing airlift capacity I believe.

[juddy]

No the beeachcraft are there to keep the piolts and ground crews up to date etc, and fill a gap until replacements are found. The c130 H models are 25 year old and need relacing too, The Airbus A400m would be good but its been delayed again, and theres even reports that the UK may pull out.

[JohnF]

:angel: :
They have ordered 4 more beechcraft to replace the caribou. That's like replacing a peacock with a sparrow!!!

The C-27 spartan would be a good replacement because it has common parts with the hercs, but they seem dead set on not ordering replacements at the moment.

Not only common parts but common cockpit with the Herc 130J is an build option, as far as I have read, which means that one pilot can fly either of these airplanes, with the same cockpit layout.

Nothing will really replace the short strip preformance of the Caribou--lands and takes of in 300 meters [or is that feet] if I am correct, while the Alenia C27 Spartan needs 600 Meters, twice the leangth of airstrip for the spartan.

The beechcraft are supose to be just a stop gap meassure, to get the maintainance crew use to a Turbo Prop instead of the piston engines, and modern avionics instead of the old fassioned ones in the Caribou.

On top of the piston engines in the Carabou, Landrover is the problem for the old Caribou . When these planes were first ordered they had to carry Landrovers. But later model landrovers were made a bit wider so would no longer fit inside the Carabou according to one Aircraft magazine article in the local Library, which is a Landrover transport Problem.

[V8Ian]

Nothing will really replace the short strip preformance of the Caribou--lands and takes of in 300 meters [or is that feet] if I am correct,
And its increciblely low stall speed.

[JDNSW]

As indicated above - there is no such thing as a Caribou replacement! There are various proposals that may partly replace them, sounds rather like the DC3 replacement problem thirty-five years ago. (It may come as a surprise but as late as the early seventies, more than 50% of the world's scheduled flight legs were operated by DC3s, all of which were at least thirty years old. There never was a direct replacement - what really made replacement necessary was that the US military used the majority of the stockpiled engine parts during the Vietnam war, making them too expensive to operate, coupled with the relatively higher cost of avgas compared to kerosene, particularly after 100LL replaced 100/130. Their functions were replaced by a variety of aircraft, but many places lost out on their air services. Most of the replacements meant much more restricted airfreight for example, and either a lot more or a lot fewer seats - small cramped aircraft or fewer flights.

Apparently Canada is looking at reopening production of the Buffalo, to replace their Caribou, with the engines replaced by turbines, probably not the ones in the Buffalo (GE) but the PW150. Viking Air reportedly hold the type certificate. (Buffalo was the relatively less successful turbine version of the Caribou)

John

John

[Phoenix]

:angel: :

Not only common parts but common cockpit with the Herc 130J is an build option, as far as I have read, which means that one pilot can fly either of these airplanes, with the same cockpit layout.

Nothing will really replace the short strip preformance of the Caribou--lands and takes of in 300 meters [or is that feet] if I am correct, while the Alenia C27 Spartan needs 600 Meters, twice the leangth of airstrip for the spartan.

The beechcraft are supose to be just a stop gap meassure, to get the maintainance crew use to a Turbo Prop instead of the piston engines, and modern avionics instead of the old fassioned ones in the Caribou.

On top of the piston engines in the Carabou, Landrover is the problem for the old Caribou . When these planes were first ordered they had to carry Landrovers. But later model landrovers were made a bit wider so would no longer fit inside the Carabou according to one Aircraft magazine article in the local Library, which is a Landrover transport Problem.

Actually it's only the 6x6 land rovers that are wider, the 4x4's still fit ;)

[V8Ian]

Is the Buffalo as versatile and nimble as the Carrabou?

[Phoenix]

I can't rememebr the specs, btu the 2 aren't far different if I recall, still both old aircraft now though.

[PhilipA]

In my time many years ago the Caribou was called

Tac TSR ie Tactical Transport Short Range

and the Hercs etc are Tac TLR ie Long Range.

So the missions are very different between a Caribou and a Herc.

AFAIK the Caribou is the last piston engined plane in military service anywhere in the developed world.

They ran out of cylinders many years ago and Hawker deHavilland were re casting them in Sydney. They tried re-engining them with turbines but apparently it was not feasible due to airframe limitations or something like that.
BTW I saw a turboprop DC3 on the tele somewhere recently so now someone is doing that.
If this is all old news I hope the plane buffs will keep their sneering at a subdued level.

Regard sPhilip A

[JDNSW]

Is the Buffalo as versatile and nimble as the Carrabou?

Buffalo is a turbine engined Caribou - but they redesigned it at the same time, and it put on weight, badly. Maximum takeoff weight is up by six tonnes (about 30%), but empty weight is up by three tonnes, and maximum speed cruising speed is up about 20%. Since it has about twice the power of the Caribou, a good proportion of the extra payload will need to be fuel, but the extra power should give similar performance out of short fields. Overall dimensions are only slightly larger, but the fuselage is wider and slightly longer.

Although of very similar configuration, it does not have the distinctive wing bend at the engines like the Caribou, and the tailplane is on top of the vertical fin instead of part way up.

John

[Bigbjorn]

BTW I saw a turboprop DC3 on the tele somewhere recently so now someone is doing that.


I remember reading long time ago now about a US firm that was reworking aluminium big block Chevs to aviation configuration to replace turbines in smaller aircraft. Apparently the overhaul cost of a turbine was greater than a new modified aluminium 454.

Smoky Yunick had arranged the loan of a turbine to go into his legendary "capsule car" for the Indianapolis 500. That was until he was advised that the loan was free but the engine company expected him to pay $25,000 to $30,000 for a post-race overhaul. An Indianapolis Offy was just under $10,000 at the time, and he already had a good Offy. Guess what went into the capsule car.

[scanfor]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but does anyone know what this aircraft is and why it's flying a grid search pattern off North Stradbroke Island?

It has "Rescue" painted on the side and it looks like a Dash 8.

[V8Ian]

As already stated, there is no direct replacement. The very slow stall speed made these aircraft accurate when they unloaded, sans landing; it also minimized cargo damage upon landing.

[V8Ian]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but does anyone know what this aircraft is and why it's flying a grid search pattern off North Stradbroke Island?

It has "Rescue" painted on the side and it looks like a Dash 8.
Something to do with sunken containers maybe? Could be a search exercise.

[VladTepes]

When I went to the Amberley Air show - they had several C-17s there (Aus and US) but the one scheduled to give a flight demo was broken ! It was one of our new ones too ! Hope it has a good warranty !


Plane tragics see also www.qam.com.au (http://www.qam.com.au)

[Gooseneck]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but does anyone know what this aircraft is and why it's flying a grid search pattern off North Stradbroke Island?

It has "Rescue" painted on the side and it looks like a Dash 8.

It's a Dornier 328. Used for SAR.

[V8Ian]

When I went to the Amberley Air show - they had several C-17s there (Aus and US) but the one scheduled to give a flight demo was broken ! It was one of our new ones too ! Hope it has a good warranty !


Plane tragics see also www.qam.com.au (http://www.qam.com.au)
Small claims Court will sort it out:p