So I looked at this disco today

[vk2icj]

HI All

Just looking for some advice from disco owners. I went and looked at a Disco today. First off let me say I'm looking for a tourer not a rock basher. I want to get into some remote touring in the next year or so. I currently belong to a 4 wheel drive club that is very active in these things. Ok I looked at a 1995 Disco TDI 5 speed manual with 240,ooo on the clock. 2 owners. The log book is stamped every 8000 to 10000 k by a land rover dealer until about 140,ooo k in 2002. Supposedly the first owner then started using a private mechanic near his home to service for the next 5 years or so. A year or two ago the motor blew a head gasket and the owner sold the disco to one of the mechanics at the shop for repairs on another of his cars or some such plus some coin exchanged hands. At anyrate at that time the mechanic was going to do some 4 wheeling but never got to it and now has decided to sell the car. The mechanic changed the timing belt pullys and all about a year ago when he did the head gasket. The mechanic says he has the service record at the shop on the computer for the disco and can print it out for me if I want including the invoice for the timing belt as they used genuine LR parts. I drove the disco (very smooth copmpared to my MQ Patrol) and it went well. I didn't see any smoke on startup however it was warm when I got there as the mechanic uses it as a daily driver. I saw a small oil leak at the front of the block and one of the oil hoses on the driver's side was a bit leaky. The body looked good with some scratches and some paint fading. There was a very very very small amount of surface rust around the "Alpine" windows bottom. Tyres were ok but highway tread and just legal. All and all it looked and drove ok to me. He is asking $5000. I've seen on ebay some for a bit more and some for a bit less so I'm thinking that this is middle of the road. Whats your thoughts,, OHH and the air con was nice and COLD.


Thanks

Chris

[McDisco]

Sounds like you are checking the right things and documenting its history. One of the best things you can do..

Angus

[Chucaro]

I am on my second Tdi 300 vehicle, the first was a Disco 1998 manual and now a Defender.
I like them very much.
There are 2 things taht you have to keep the eye on the 300, One is the timing belt and the other the engine temperature and water level.
If you get one get that alarm for heating and water level and the engine will be protected.

Regarding the Alpine windows, this is a common problem on them. If you get this unit I would inspect the panel from inside and replace the rubbers

Cheers

[justinc]

Also, that model year suffered from the input gear and mainshaft spline wear issues badly. Make sure this has been addressed or you will be the one to part with about 2 to 3 K to fix it:mad: It is characterised by excessive drivetrain backlash etc, and can only be accurately assessed with the PTO cover removed and either looking in with a good torch etc, or just remove the gear out the back of the PTO hole and inspect that way. Having travelled 240K, I would've expected it to have been fixed by now, either that or it'll break any second:eek:

JC

[Utemad]

Just on the rust issue.
The alpine windows rust out from under the rubber. So if you can see rust below the rubber then I'd say the rust under the rubber would be pretty bad.
Try pressing hard on the rubber itself and listen for crunching noises. If you hear crunching then it is very rusty in those spots.

Also check the front footwells for rust under the carpet.


Also, that model year suffered from the input gear and mainshaft spline wear issues badly. Make sure this has been addressed or you will be the one to part with about 2 to 3 K to fix it:mad: It is characterised by excessive drivetrain backlash etc, and can only be accurately assessed with the PTO cover removed and either looking in with a good torch etc, or just remove the gear out the back of the PTO hole and inspect that way. Having travelled 240K, I would've expected it to have been fixed by now, either that or it'll break any second:eek:

JC

Mine is a 94 model and does not have the cross drilled gear as JC mentioned. However mine does have an oil feed plate which is shown in the RAVE manual as a factory part. When I checked mine at about 170k kms or so all parts looked new. No idea if this was done after sale but it was certainly done before I got hold of it 2.5 years ago.
Not really going anywhere with this other than all is not lost without the cross drilled gear :)

If it all checks out then $5k seems like a good price for a 300Tdi Disco from what I've seen.

[Chucaro]

Also, that model year suffered from the input gear and mainshaft spline wear issues badly. Make sure this has been addressed or you will be the one to part with about 2 to 3 K to fix it:mad: It is characterised by excessive drivetrain backlash etc, and can only be accurately assessed with the PTO cover removed and either looking in with a good torch etc, or just remove the gear out the back of the PTO hole and inspect that way. Having travelled 240K, I would've expected it to have been fixed by now, either that or it'll break any second:eek:

JC

Just wonder if this apply to the Disco only or is a problem on the Defe as well?

[Utemad]

Just wonder if this apply to the Disco only or is a problem on the Defe as well?

It's an R380/LT230 issue. So yes Defender too.

[Chucaro]

On the log book of my Defender when it have 30000 km on the clock LR Australia fitted a new transfer case and gearbox. Just wonder if the job was related to this problem?

[JDNSW]

On the log book of my Defender when it have 30000 km on the clock LR Australia fitted a new transfer case and gearbox. Just wonder if the job was related to this problem?

Quite possibly, although I would have thought it was a bit low mileage for it to have shown up - I seem to remember figures around twice that, but could be faulty memory!

John

[justinc]

Just on the rust issue.
The alpine windows rust out from under the rubber. So if you can see rust below the rubber then I'd say the rust under the rubber would be pretty bad.
Try pressing hard on the rubber itself and listen for crunching noises. If you hear crunching then it is very rusty in those spots.

Also check the front footwells for rust under the carpet.



Mine is a 94 model and does not have the cross drilled gear as JC mentioned. However mine does have an oil feed plate which is shown in the RAVE manual as a factory part. When I checked mine at about 170k kms or so all parts looked new. No idea if this was done after sale but it was certainly done before I got hold of it 2.5 years ago.
Not really going anywhere with this other than all is not lost without the cross drilled gear :)

If it all checks out then $5k seems like a good price for a 300Tdi Disco from what I've seen.

Correct , I'd forgotten about the oil slinger. I have fitted some over the years on low km ones that hadn't worn yet. LR was supposed to be fitting them during normal service up until 1996MY AFAIR (Scouse or Bigjon can confirm this?)but lots were seemingly never actually fitted to the customers vehicles due to slack dealer workshops or the vehicles never going back there for servicing etc. Either way, It is essential the gear etc is checked prior to purchase. If a oil slinger is fitted, as Utemad says the gear wear will be nill, it worked really well.

JC

[101RRS]

Correct , I'd forgotten about the oil slinger. I have fitted some over the years on low km ones that hadn't worn yet. LR was supposed to be fitting them during normal service up until 1996MY AFAIR (Scouse or Bigjon can confirm this?)but lots were seemingly never actually fitted to the customers vehicles due to slack dealer workshops or the vehicles never going back there for servicing etc. Either way, It is essential the gear etc is checked prior to purchase. If a oil slinger is fitted, as Utemad says the gear wear will be nill, it worked really well.

JC

My very early update (delivered Apr 94) never had the oil slinger fitted. The problem was just starting to show up when I sold it in 2006 with just 100,000km on it - was looking at options at the time.

So not all fitted and I suspect most were not. The problem also applied to earlier gearbox/transfer case variations.

Garry

[justinc]

Just as an example, a 145K R380 from a wrecked 1995 110 that we recently sold (Fitted now to Defender=1st's 130) I fitted an oil slinger to when it was just 40K old. We had a look before it went into Adrians 130 and it was as new:)

JC

[vk2icj]

Thanks for the info.

Ok so exactly what do I look for or ask the owner about? Can I see this oil slinger and if so where is it located? Does anyone have any pictures? justinc you mention that you can access the PTO cover to verify if the update has been done. Exactly what would I be looking for or asking about. Thanks again you guys are a wealth of information.

Chris

[justinc]

Thanks for the info.

Ok so exactly what do I look for or ask the owner about? Can I see this oil slinger and if so where is it located? Does anyone have any pictures? justinc you mention that you can access the PTO cover to verify if the update has been done. Exactly what would I be looking for or asking about. Thanks again you guys are a wealth of information.

Chris

Hi Chris,

The PTO cover is a round ally cover plate, about 200mm diameter at the rear of the Transfer case. undo the bolts, and the outer cover will come off with a little prising as it is usually glued on with a silicon type sealant. You then can see if an oil sliger is fitted as it will be a aluminium plate completely filling the hole basically with a small slot at 12 o'clock. If the slinger isn't there, you should be able to see the splines for the PTO engagement sleeve at the end of the input gear. If you look inside that, you can see the condition of the mainshaft splines and input gear splines by rotating the handbrake drum side to side, you can then see how much wear there is by how far the gear rotates before the shaft moves. Alternatively, and the best inspection method by far, is to put the transfer case in neutral, remove the rear bearing plate (Sandwiched between the PTO cover and the transfer case) and remove the gear altogether by pulling and rotating. Then you can really see if it and the mainshaft is in good nick, and whether it has any holes drilled etc etc.

JC

[Chucaro]

Thank you for the explanation Justin, now I have to wait to be there and see you done the inspection in "Rustic" :D

[Utemad]

These are pics of the oil feed plate etc when I inspected mine.

PTO cover
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/210.jpg

Bearing holder thingo - this was an absolute mongrel to remove. It was glued on extremely well.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/211.jpg

Oil feed plate
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/212.jpg

Output splines good as new
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/213.jpg

Input gear good as new
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/214.jpg

Input gear
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/167.jpg

[vk2icj]

Geeze that looks like a big job for a pre purchase inspection lol is there no easier way to tell? Is this something that can be done on the side of the road quick (well hour or so) and then put back together with the owner being ok with?

[justinc]

Geeze that looks like a big job for a pre purchase inspection lol is there no easier way to tell? Is this something that can be done on the side of the road quick (well hour or so) and then put back together with the owner being ok with?

Actually, the owner being a mech must have some idea what they are like, IE if the drivetrain backlash is excessive in a pre 1996MY D1 or Defender then I would Immediately suspect the mainshaft splines. Why not ask him if he has had a look, or would he mind removing the cover and letting you know what they are like? After all, he wants to sell the vehicle doesn't he? And it is perfectly reasonable for you to want to know what they are like as it is such an expensive thing to rectify.

JC

[Utemad]

Is this something that can be done on the side of the road quick (well hour or so) and then put back together with the owner being ok with?

If you have a closer look at the pictures your question will be answered ;)
Well actually it was the car park at work.

For someone who knows what they are doing then it can be done in less than an hour so long as the bearing holder plate thing is reasonably easy to remove as I found that to be the hardest thing to remove. I actually tried three times over a few separate times to remove it. In the end getting it free with a hammer and lump of hardwood.

Although as JC said, the seller is a mechanic. Ask him to strip it and send you photos or even do it and have it in bits for when you go over.

[slug_burner]

My splines let go at about 110k km despite having been dealer serviced. This was followed by the input gear and laygear going at about 150k km. The later was most likely due to some towing in 5th.

[vk2icj]

Ok well I emailed the fella and asked him about the gears. I haven't heard back from him yet, but I might give him a call tomorow. Interesting you bring up towing slug burner as the owner told me that the Rover spent the first so many years of it's life towing a caravan around the area. This input gear PTO thingy would be very important for a Disco that has done some towing. Early in the thread someone stated crossed drilled What is that about? Would I be just looking for worn gears or was there a replacement set or something that looks different from the one utemad posted.

Chris

[Utemad]

Input gear
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/167.jpg


Early in the thread someone stated crossed drilled What is that about?

See the smooth area between the bearing on the left and the teeth on the right. The cross drilled gear has two holes drilled right through in a cross pattern which leaves you with four holes to let the oil in/out of the splined area.

This link to the Ashcroft site has some great info and pictures.
Ashcroft Transmissions (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_28.html)

[vk2icj]

Thanks Justin

Yes that site has heaps. I was just reading a bit.

Identifying your Unit

The LT 230 was fitted to all 5 speed Defenders, all Discos and the RR Classic up to 1988. The serial number will be stamped in one of 2 possible places, either on the bottom left of the main casing or on the earlier vehicles right at the bottom of the left hand side face of the main casing obscured by the exhaust pipe in which case you will need a knife (to scrape the muck off) and a mirror. You are looking for Eg. "28D123456E, we are interested in the first two and the last, i.e. we call this a "28E"

Did they mean 1998?

If so is this a way without opening the Transfer case to see if the cross drilled gear is inside or is that simply stating that it can be retro fitted to that model of transfer case?

also

We can supply both the earlier (26th tooth) and later cross-drilled (26th and 28th tooth) input gears.
To identify which type you need you will need to look at the your transfer case serial number. The last letter of this will denote whether your vehicle is able to accept the later cross-drilled type. A transfer box with the suffix A or B will only accept the earlier 26th tooth, non cross-drilled type (FRC5428). A transfer box with the suffix C onwards will accept the later cross-drilled type. To see how to identify your transfer box number please look in transfer box introduction.
Suffix A or B use a FRC5428,
If you have a 200 Tdi Disco or Defender or a 300 Tdi defender these all take a FTC5089.


Since we are talking a 300 tdi disco as noted above does that imply that they all had the cross drilled input gears to start with?


Chris

[vk2icj]

Just out of curiousity as I'm learning heaps on this here was this problem specific to MY1995 or did it span several years? Is there a Disco MY that had this problem corrected at the factory or some earlier year where they used better parts.

Chris

[Utemad]

Just out of curiousity as I'm learning heaps on this here was this problem specific to MY1995 or did it span several years? Is there a Disco MY that had this problem corrected at the factory or some earlier year where they used better parts.

Chris

I think MY97 was the first to get the cross drilled part. Not 100% sure.
Before that all LT230s would have been susceptible to wear without the oil feed plate.

This thread has tended to focus on just this one problem however I am sure there are other things you need to look at with the 300Tdi. Like the fact it is missing 4 cylinders :wasntme::burnrubber:

[justinc]

Very funny Justin:D:D:D

I remember a friend of mine asked me to do a pre purchase inspection on a 2 year old Zetec 2 litre Focus. Nice little thing. He rang me and asked what I thought of it. I said it was a nice car but had a few missing components. 'What's missing, let me know and I'll negotiate a lower price with the used car dealer:mad:!!' said he, to which I replied 'A turbocharger and rear differential':p:p

JC