Fitting a taco

[willvine]

Hi, has any one fitted a taco to their series 3 2.2.5 Diesel LWB, if so how did you do it?

1: is there a pulse wire somewhere on the alternator or is there a gear somewhere ie off the cam or fuel pump.

2: where did you purchase one and what type.

Any help would be great

cheers
Will.

[Sleepy]

Very good question willvine,

I've been thinking the same thing for my S3D.

[willvine]

Hi there sleepy I was wondering how your ser3 was going looked great in the photos and sounded like you had a great trip home.

yea a taco would be great as it is hard to know if the motor is reving of its nut or if its got plenty left as the noise puts you off a bit, aye.

Will.

[abaddonxi]

Hi there sleepy I was wondering how your ser3 was going looked great in the photos and sounded like you had a great trip home.

yea a taco would be great as it is hard to know if the motor is reving of its nut or if its got plenty left as the noise puts you off a bit, aye.

Will.

Not so much the noise as the raw onions and Salsa.:p

Sorry
Simon

[d@rk51d3]

Not so much the noise as the raw onions and Salsa.:p

Sorry
Simon

:D:D:D

[willvine]

Just got it! :D

thanks, Very funny

[Sleepy]

Hi there sleepy I was wondering how your ser3 was going looked great in the photos and sounded like you had a great trip home.

yea a taco would be great as it is hard to know if the motor is reving of its nut or if its got plenty left as the noise puts you off a bit, aye.

Will.

Yeah the S3 is good - few small issues to address before roadworthy certifcate - Need a new heater and few other bits and bobs.

I have a great spot to warm the taco's just on the transmission tunnel.:p

Now that we have the mexican food sorted, can anyone tell willvine and me how we can fit a tachometer??:D

[B92 8NW]

A "diesel tiny tach". Connects to the injector pipe and senses the pulse.

Tiny-Tach: Diesel Tachometers (http://www.tinytach.com/tinytach/diesel.php)

[Sleepy]

They look good B928NW - I would prefer the clock/analogue type display rather than the digital. I drove a Subaru many years back with a digital tacho (and everything else) and found it hard to keep track of.
I tend to glance at the tacho rather than read it - much easier to do that with analogue.

[willvine]

Thanks for the info on the tiny tach, but I also would rather a analouge style tacho. as the update time is 2.5 seconds, so it would be hard to read on the go. There must be another way?.

Regards
Will.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi there sleepy I was wondering how your ser3 was going looked great in the photos and sounded like you had a great trip home.

yea a taco would be great as it is hard to know if the motor is reving of its nut or if its got plenty left as the noise puts you off a bit, aye.

Will.However when you have one hand on the taco for lunch and the other txt'ing on the phone, one hardly cares what the engine is doing.

Seriously There are occasionally 2" tacho's for Land Rovers on the ebay UK site. You can fit them in one of the three spaces in the centre of the dash.

I have also seen pics of a small tacho fitted into the top of the speedo by an instrument maker.

Diana

[Sleepy]

Got this response from VDO today:

Currant range of VDO tacho’s work from the alternator so alt has to be opened up and signal taken from one of the diodes, best to see a auto electrician about this. Alternative is magnetic type sensor that picks up teeth on flywheel this requires a threaded hole in bell housing. There are 4 different size tacho’s made 52,80,85 & 100mm. some with a hour meter in them.

[willvine]

Got this response from VDO today:

Currant range of VDO tacho’s work from the alternator so alt has to be opened up and signal taken from one of the diodes, best to see a auto electrician about this. Alternative is magnetic type sensor that picks up teeth on flywheel this requires a threaded hole in bell housing. There are 4 different size tacho’s made 52,80,85 & 100mm. some with a hour meter in them.

Cool, nice work paul. Yea I thought there would be a signal generated from the alt then calabrated to suite the tacho. I used to work with diesel boat motors as a apprentice and we used to do some thing like this but i was usually not paying to much attention or still hung over to concentrate :wasntme: I will let you know what I find might pull the alt this weekend as i have got a new radiator to go in tomorrow for sunday fun. there is a bloke in Roseville sydney called (Electric boat parts), just thinking out side of the square, he may be able to help? Will try tomorrow.

regards
Will.

[Sleepy]

Perhaps you could take your camera Will?:angel::)

You could do a tutorial on fitting the tacho and I'll do one on making salsa and warming taco's on you transmission tunnel. :lol2: :lol2:

[willvine]

Hi I found this while searching the forum, a good read!


sorry mate, its a 1987 RR.

and i just found this which may answer my question after I read through it!

Lightbulb Tachos 101 -hold the sour cream
Hi Michael2

FWIW here are my answers.
lets start with the basics
Tachos display rpm. More correctly they are voltmeters showing a voltage relative to the engine RPM and marked in graduations of rpm.

Next wiring diagrams. The tacho will have 4 wires. One is ground (chassis), One is positive 12 volt in our case and will be connected to ignition power (on when engine running), One is for illumination and is obvious as it connects to the base of a bulb holder usually. The last wire is the signal wire. The signal is a voltage that Oscillates (rises and falls) in a frequency relative to the engine speed. the tacho has circuitry to convert this signal frequency to a voltage for display. Internally that voltage will be referenced to eliminate voltage fluctuations in the electrical system.

In a petrol engine this signal is connected to the wire between the coil and points (or equivilent on higher tech engines) In this case the tacho is factory calibrated and has switches to select the number of cylinders (or can be fixed). The incoming frequency is effectively divided according to the number of cylinders. on 4 stroke petrol thefrequency of the signal will be half the number of cylinders times the RPM. Ie in a 4 cylinder engine there will be 2 pulses per revolution of the crankshaft. 4 for a V8, 3 for a v6 etc if it is 2 stroke the pulses per revolution will be equal to the number or cylinders.

In a diesel there are 4 common ways to source a signal for the tacho.
1) Transducer on one of the injector pipes on manual injector systems. Often a piezo crystal that creates a voltage when distorted so the injecton pressure pulses cause the crystal to give out spikes. Signal ratio is pulses=half number of cylinders per revolution
2) Direct connection to electric injector driving wire on electronic type injector systems. Signal ratio is pulses=half number of cylinders per revolution.
3) Directly from the ECU on computerised engine management systems. Signal could be any ratio.
(for the above ifthe diesel was 2 stroke then ratios are doubled.)

4) When all else fails. Connected to one phase of the alternator. Often called W terminal (other phases can be called X and Y). Alternators generate alternating current (AC) internally and then is rectified by a diode network to output direct current (DC) or voltage around 14volts. the W terminal is the out put of one of the phases producing AC voltage so it is a signal rising and falling as each pole of the rotor passes the coils of that phase. Most alternators have 3 phases but it really is not important. Many alternators do not have W terminals but most fitted to diesels do and if not can be modded by a skilled auto electrician. The ratio is pulses = number of poles on the rotor per revolution of the ALTERNATOR. So for ENGINE RPM you need to know the ratio of the crankshaft revolutions to alternator revolutions. This is often displayed in car/engine specs but not in the literature I have here for LR defender 300TDi.

Back to the questions
The tacho "counts" pulses (and converts to voltage) not rpm directly. basically you will end up with so many pulses per engine revolution. This could be something like 17pulses so at 1000rpm the signal would be 17KHz

Yes if a different alternator was fitted then this could change the number of pulses. The number of pulses is dependant on the internals of the alternator. ie number of rotor poles. The number of pulses per engine revolution is proportional to the ratio of crankshaft and alternator pulleys. All the other things on the belt can be ignored. The pulley size for an alternator is chosen so that the alternator will not be driven too fast at engine red line and is almost always much smaller than the crankshaft pulley so the alternator spins much faster as they are more efficient at higher speeds. The same alternator on a small 4 cylinder car may have a larger pulley than on a slower revving V8 or diesel.

The offer from the Speedometer shop seems to be a very good deal. If your tacho works ie moves relative to the engine rpm then they do not need to know all the things you listed. they should have an optical tachometer and stick a small reflective sticker on the crankshaft and rev the engine up to about two thirds of red line and while reading their optical tachometer rpm compare it with what your guage displays. In the side of nearly all VDO guages there is a small hole with a small adjustment screw that can be turned to "calibrate" the display. So id they rev engine to say 2500rpm using their optical tacho, then you turn that screw until your guage shows 2500rpm.
The other way would be to read the signal directly from the altrnator and compare with theoretical value obtained by dividing the crankshaft pulley circumfrence by the alternator pulley circumfrence and multiplying by the number of rotor poles. They could then set the tacho using test equipment inside their workshop.

The pulley diameters can be measured. they can lookup the specs on the alternator to find number of poles and signal pickup type. The tacho FSD may be able to be set using switches. The FSD will be a maximum frequency of the signal connection to show maximum rpm on the tacho. It is often displayed as pulses input frequency coresponding to a display of 1000rpm.

New tachos will have switches to set range but older ones may have a set range.

See this website
http://www.sso.siemensvdo.com.au/htm...home.asp'dsb=4

and these instructions as most newer tachos are very similar.
http://www.sso.siemensvdo.com.au/htm...d=image&id=326


I think yours will just need a tweak of the adjustment in the side of the tacho.

OK is there a limit on posting length?

I hope that makes it clear as mud.

[Sleepy]

The nice fella from VDO sent me this wiring information too.
(Sorry it's upside down :()

[sclarke]

OMG.... sorry i was looking for a pic of a Taco, when i found this.....


http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/taco.JPG

[Blknight.aus]

Id be going the type that clamps a piezo electric sensor to the #1 injector line.....

OOC why do you want a tacho on the 2.25 diesel? its got a full noise limiter built into the govenor so you cant over noise it and when your trying to engine brake it sounds like it going to explode well and truely before it actually does.

[Sleepy]

I've always liked having a taco,....sorry Tacho, whilst driving.

I take it Dave, you haven't got one on Fozzy?

[Blknight.aus]

nope, the only time I do is when I fit it up for diagnostics reasons.

the nice thing about the piezo pulse ones is you can also use them to trigger a timing light.

drop the diesel front pully off, put the petrol one on and then bolt on the timing pointer and you can do your diesel injection timing on the fly rather than the rather ratty static method thats prescribed for the engine.

hell get 4, calibrate them to each other, hook them up to a 4 channel crow with a memory delay and you can diagnose your injector pulse, crack point, duration and the quality of the close off on each injector, its just like doing an ECG on a diesel.

[Sleepy]

OOC why do you want a tacho on the 2.25 diesel?

Dave,
I've always liked the tacho on the td5 to concentrate on keeping it at peak torque when offroad. Being my first diesel I had to learn that "sinking your foot in" wasn't the best option. (Yes, I managed to overheat the brakes (ETC) going up hill :angel:)
Being my first 2.25 D, I had anticipated that the tacho would help me understand the engine a little more. I take it, you just work on decibels.

[Blknight.aus]

no its an entirely different beast to a td5...


youd have to be making a concerted effort to kill it.

But yep I drive all vehicles by the seat of my pants, the gauges should only be a back up to what you already know and to assist in you're initial "calibration"