300 tdi Fuel Economy - snake oil??

[brianwood]

Hi all, I'm a newbie to this forum, but not to Discos.
Nothing provokes more heated debate than supposed fuel saving devices.
Not sure what to believe myself, but I added some high-powered magnets to the fuel line before the injector pump and I gained an extra 100klms out of each tank of fuel. My last tank of combined driving netted me 960kms
Should I believe? Or how can this be explained. My best EVER previous was 870km

Brian

[Grover-98]

Do you have a picture of the set up of magnets where did you get it from how much and how does it work?

Run a couple more tanks on it and take note of what you get out of the tank...fill up at the same servo and try to keep the driving style the same with the same load i.e if its usually you in the car try keep it as much the same as possible. And same amount of highway/traffic driving.

Then do a test without the system again and see if economy falls.

More info on your set up would be good :)

[jx2mad]

My 300tdi used 10l/100k. I have just had the injector pump overhauled as it was leaking and on diesel I get 9l/100k. I have had gas fitted with a good increase in power and on the gas/diesel combo I get 8.5l/100k city driving and approx 8l/100k touring.

[Grover-98]

I seem to always get 10L/100K but if i could lower this at a low cost i am very interested.

[brianwood]

They were from a seller on ebay. Cost me $29.95
I notice now they've just gone up to $39.95!

Anyway, here's the link with the blurb about them:

<Mod edit - Link Removed>

Please note, I don't endorse these units in any way. I'm just reporting the facts as it happened for me...
I placed both units inline clipped onto the plastic fuel line just before the injector pump.
I did try it for a while on 2 injector lines but it made no difference. I asked the seller and he told me to put it before the injector pump.

[Grover-98]

I have always been sceptical about these kinds of items! And after readingthe site i would need two for my 300tdi and at 39.95 each plus postage that is up too around $90 invested in something which might not work. If it did give me the savings youhave experienced then yes i would get one as it would soon pay for itself.

Have you had any of the mentioned power gain? or less black smoke anything like that? Does the engine run smoother?

Also i am curious as he has ones for Patrols on there for 29.95 what does it matter wouldn't i be able to purchase two of them?

James.

edit: i have just read the site again and 39.95 is for 2 units. So it is an investment of around $50

[brianwood]

Hi James,
Yes I am a sceptic too.
Just cant explain the improvement though.
No improvement in power. Slightly smoother at idle. Exhaust smells a bit different too, whatever that means.
Brian

[Grover-98]

Hi James,
Yes I am a sceptic too.
Just cant explain the improvement though.
No improvement in power. Slightly smoother at idle. Exhaust smells a bit different too, whatever that means.
Brian

And you are getting better economy? as that is my main concern

[brianwood]

Like I say, a conservative 1litre per 100km improvement. (from 10l/100 to 9l/100)
Will pay for itself in 3 tanks.
I don't know why the seller lists them for specific brands. I'm guessing they are all the same...

[waynep]

sorry this whole thread smells a bit fishy to me
new member, no location details entered - only 3 posts, all on this subject ???? and a product type that has been the subject of much spam and false claims in the past.

Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick here Brian, but you can't blame me for being suspicious. Maybe you'd like to fill out your profile a bit, do an entry in the introductions page, tell us about yourself, your rig etc.

[brianwood]

Will do...
I see your point.
Cheers
Brian

[big guy]

Sales tactic??

[brianwood]

Sounds like you guys have been burnt before with dodgy posts.
Nah, I'm not selling anything - was just an innocent post which I wanted to share. Got a reaction from one of my mates too. He just said it was a load of rubbish.
I guess the lesson here is: keep it to yourself???
Then again, what is a forum all about?

[brianwood]

BTW, how do I add stuff about my Disco, you know down the bottom?

[djhampson]

Hi Brian,

Firstly welcome aboard.

I've removed the link because there is a lot of material available from a Google search (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&rlz=1B3GGGL_en-GBAU317AU317&q=magnetic+fuel+saver+do+they+work&btnG=Search&meta=)that says these kind of devices don't work... I don't want to really debate if they work or not (but others are welcome to engage in friendly debate here)

If anyone wants to get the link they should PM me or yourself for it.

To change your signature, click on the User CP link on the menu at the top of the screen.

Cheers,

Dave

[Sleepy]

Welcome aboard Brian,

Yes I've heard those magnets are found on the tip of Bribie Island that broke off this morning. ;)

I'm trying not to be too rude because we all like a good April fools joke. :lol2:

[brianwood]

OK, I'm in the 'User CP'. Where to from here???

[djhampson]

OK, I'm in the 'User CP'. Where to from here???

Ooops sorry - Theres a link to Edit Signature in the left side menu. Then enter whatever you want and click save signature.

[brianwood]

I must have the 'no frills' version or something...
The only things I can edit are:
Email & Password
Options
Avatar
Profile Picture

Brian

[101RRS]

sorry this whole thread smells a bit fishy to me
new member, no location details entered - only 3 posts, all on this subject ???? and a product type that has been the subject of much spam and false claims in the past.

Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick here Brian, but you can't blame me for being suspicious. Maybe you'd like to fill out your profile a bit, do an entry in the introductions page, tell us about yourself, your rig etc.

I agree - this sounds like the same sales pitch that used to go on on other forums to flog these things.

Sorry - is fishy also.

Moderators - can you please investigate and action accordingly - if OK then please advise - if dodgy please remove.

Garry

Garry

[brianwood]

Sounds like I'd make a good salesman eh?

[disco_mitch]

Sounds like I'd make a good salesman eh?

your picture even looks like that of a salesman lol sorry mate had to say it

[Grover-98]

sorry this whole thread smells a bit fishy to me
new member, no location details entered - only 3 posts, all on this subject ???? and a product type that has been the subject of much spam and false claims in the past.

Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick here Brian, but you can't blame me for being suspicious. Maybe you'd like to fill out your profile a bit, do an entry in the introductions page, tell us about yourself, your rig etc.

I have had the same feeling from the start it all seemed too odd...But i don't like to jump to conclusions!

[spudboy]

If it was that easy, Land Rover (and every other manufacturer) would have fitted magnets years ago. Manufacturers spend million of pounds to improve their economy, and wouldn't have overlooked something this simple.

Maybe you pumped up your tyres by 5 PSI and got better mileage or some other factor got the extra 1L/100Km.....

[penno]

Hi Brian and welcome, i put magnetic signs on my truck didn't make any difference
Penno

[Larns]

Yea I'm in the same boat mate, sorry. I don't really belive these things unless there is proof. I do have a mate that put some on his hilux and it dropped fuel consumption for him. He was sold on the idea.
I havn't met anyone that the hiclones work for either, but there are people on this forum that have them and they work for them................

A bit more info on ongoing figures would be welcome. Don't worry about people knocking you though, there are some people that will give you a going over and call you many things just because thay have nothing better to do. Ignore them mate, and welcome.

Cheers

[sclarke]

two words

BULL ****




an engine's design wont allow changes to its economy with magnets, hiclones or snorkles.... well snorkles put in cleaner, sometimes cooler air.

Magnets wont change the properties of fuel, if it was a 100% true fact then every manufacturer in the world would be doing it....

[awabbit6]

Welcome aboard Brian,

Yes I've heard those magnets are found on the tip of Bribie Island that broke off this morning. ;)

I'm trying not to be too rude because we all like a good April fools joke. :lol2:

I don't do my long drive to work anymore so I missed all the April fool's day jokes on the radio this morning.

Unfortunately this one doesn't make up for it ...

[Sleepy]

I'm thinking the S3 Diesel might cope on WSO* though.






*Waste snake oil

Please don't take all this scepticism personally Brianwood, but we've seen them come and go:

Peter Brock's Polarisers
Cyclonic type devices
Hydrogen generators
Magnets
Teaspoons in open beer bottles
Clarkie has seemed to sum it up pretty succinctly.

With three months worth of data under different driving conditions I am happy to be convinced but after a couple of fill-ups I aint.

P.S. Did you play AFL for Richmond?

[V8Ian]

Would it work on a Sarach Orbital Engine :D;):p

[Bushie]

I think he could be onto something :cool:

Electric engines use magnets, and they don't use much diesel :D:D


Martyn

[Disco300Tdi]

Did you play AFL for Richmond?

or own a Ford dealership years ago in Ferntree Gully

[awabbit6]

Would it work on a Sarach Orbital Engine :D;):p

You've gotta use round magnets (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ROUND-1-5-x0-5-neodymium-magnet-magnets_W0QQitemZ310132762294QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH _DefaultDomain_0?hash=item310132762294&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318) on them ...:p

[dullbird]

Would it work on a Sarach Orbital Engine :D;):p

That sounds like the sort of tooth brush i'm after :lol2:

[V8Ian]

That sounds like the sort of tooth brush i'm after :lol2:
mmmmmmm leaving that one well alone........ no 'how big is your mouth' remarks from me :D:D;):p:wasntme:

[Bigmark]

Ill judge for the rest of you guys.
If it talks like a duck and walks like a duck--
ITS A DUCK !!!!!!

Mate , you look like a salesman, talk like one too- got all the cute answers.
Never joined this forum until amazingly just now, why not join ask a few disco questions.
I might just pop around to a few other vehicle forums to see your trail.

[Andy-M]

I will back Brian 100% as a honest person who only started this post with the best intentions to share his opinion on a product.

Brian lives down the road from me and has been helpfull in the past with Disco information. He is definatly not a "snake oil salesman", although I did buy a bullbar off him once :D (at a good price, thanks Brian).

I may not have a lot of posts under my belt but I have been on the forum for a fair while now and am prepared to back Brians reputation as a honest helpfull person as much as I can.

Sometimes if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it may be a SCUBA diver with a snorkel in its mouth.:p



Cheers Andy

[Panya]

What we should be asking is can we get better fuel consumption from snake oil - and how to process snakes to extract the oil...

[brianwood]

Thanks Andy...
I think everyone got a bit carried away on this one.
Yes it is an honest post. I've put my introduction in the introductions forum. Am a proud D1 owner, and as Andy observes, there are 3 in our street, so it sure is Landy Country.
I'm not selling anything - although given how well the guy on ebay seems to be doing (nah, won't go there...)

Cheers, an hi to everyone

PS. Did I miss something in my life??? How do I post something honestly without looking dodgy. I can't see in anything I said that I was trying to sell something???

[brianwood]

Thanks too Larns, appreciate the welcome.
Yeah was talking to my wife last night about the burning at the stake I got. She just laughed. The other thing I didn't mention which is different is I've started putting Wynns EDT in my tank (and NO I'm not selling this either, blimey)
But I don't think the Wynns stuff is supposed to increase economy. Any ideas???

[Bigmark]

Hey Brian and andy, hate to tell you this but there are no metal particles in fuel so its not going to work- in fact you would have less fuel economy due to the extra weight and stupidity. I mean how could you actually come to the point where you pay someone for this sort of thing- you are the type of people that salesman like or are you the salesman.
Come on are you the Smart salesman or the stupid consumer.

[101RRS]

Come on are you the Smart salesman or the stupid consumer.

Definitely not the former as no one is convinced.:)

Garry

[spudboy]

Thanks too Larns, appreciate the welcome.
Yeah was talking to my wife last night about the burning at the stake I got. She just laughed. The other thing I didn't mention which is different is I've started putting Wynns EDT in my tank (and NO I'm not selling this either, blimey)
But I don't think the Wynns stuff is supposed to increase economy. Any ideas???

Hey Brian - don't give up! This site is full of sceptics (I am one) but the info you'll get here on Land Rovers (and a lot of other topics) is excellent. Just an unfortunate early topic to be posting :D

I see you have another post about your Disco so am guessing you are a real LR owner.

In a week this topic will have died and everyone will have moved on.

Keep posting.

Cheers
David

[brianwood]

I'm probably wasting my time trying to reason with someone like bigmark...
But you'd be a fool to think that magnetism only affects metals
Ever heard of MRI? Magnetic Resonance Imaging is used by health professionals to scan a patient surrounded by a strong magnet. Most people I know aren't made of metal...
And that's just one example

[spudboy]

MRI works on us because of the hydrogen atoms in our body and their propensity to line up when subjected to a magnetic field.....

[brianwood]

Thanks spudboy.
I'm guessing the same hydrogen atoms in a hydrocarbon chain (ie diesel) have a similar propensity to polarise when subjected to strong magnetic fields???

[spudboy]

Best you don't go there!!! Let this one die ;)

[isuzurover]

Brian, a 1L/100 difference (10%) could easily be due to the placebo effect.

It is claimed these magnets ionise the molecules. This is physically impossible, you need ionising radiation to do that.

[brianwood]

Thanks Ben,
Am happy to accept that.
I admit the sprook about these products is very unscientific, and the question left unanswered is: if they work, why don't cars come out with them already???
Interestingly, they claim that gas burns a different colour when magnets are placed around the gasline. What accounts for this I wonder? I haven't tried it, so don't know... Be a good one to test on a Bunsen burner in high-school

[isuzurover]

Thanks spudboy.
I'm guessing the same hydrogen atoms in a hydrocarbon chain (ie diesel) have a similar propensity to polarise when subjected to strong magnetic fields???

Brian, bringing up MRI is a great help to DISPROVE any such device.

MRI's work by applying a VERY STRONG magnetic field (think 1000x these magnets) to re-align the "spin" of H atoms within selected molecules. The instant the field is removed, EVERYTHING RETUNS TO THE WAY IT WAS BEFORE.

That is how MRIs can produce images - the megnetic field is pulsed, and the (temporary) realignment produces a measurable radio frequency emission.

So even by the time the fuel got to your fuel pump, any slight change would have been lost.

[Tank]

Uhh!, tell me if I'm wrong, but wasn't yesterday the 1st of April, AKA April Fools Day, good one Brian and welcome to the Forum, Regards Frank.

[mojo]

Uhh!, tell me if I'm wrong, but wasn't yesterday the 1st of April, AKA April Fools Day, good one Brian and welcome to the Forum, Regards Frank.

I was thinking the same thing ... if this was a joke it worked, well done Brian! :D

[Andy-M]

Hey Brian and andy, hate to tell you this but there are no metal particles in fuel so its not going to work- in fact you would have less fuel economy due to the extra weight and stupidity. I mean how could you actually come to the point where you pay someone for this sort of thing- you are the type of people that salesman like or are you the salesman.
Come on are you the Smart salesman or the stupid consumer.



Bigmark, I don't know about magnets nor do I have any on my TDi fuel line.

I was just letting people know about Brians character. It would be a shame if he decided not to post topics he is interested in or believes other may find informative.

If you have an opinion either for, or against a product, debate the product not the person.





Cheers Andy

[Zute]

I remember reading about magnets being used to kill bacteria in diesel. This was done the same way Brian's magnets are placed. People claim it works, think I read about it in 4x4 Australia Mag.
Welcome to the forum.



Disclaimer: Zute has no association with 4x4 Australia magazine.

[brianwood]

Here's a couple of excerpts from the patents office:

Background of the Invention

Hydro carbon fuels lack stability and the variability of the stability of these hydrocarbon fuels fluctuates due to storage conditions, refining methods, transportation methods, as well as environmental conditions resulting in a clustering of molecules. As the clustering of molecules increases the burn ability of the fuels decreases. Fuel efficiency drops, maintenance issues increase and an over all lack of efficiency besets the systems using these fuels as their energy source. Some of this activity is compounded through introduced bio-organisms such as bacteria, molds, fungus and other microbial activity. But much of it is the result of a polymerization and agglomerations of the organic compounds in the hydro carbon fuels. The problem has been on how to prevent and or correct these issues and stabilize the fuels until they can be burned.

Claim
A magnetic hydrocarbon treatment device and method for magnetic treatment of hydrocarbon fuel flowing through a fuel conduit for greater fuel efficiency and reduced emissions, comprising:means for pulling the positive charged carbon atoms to the outside of the pipe while pushing the negatively charged hydrogen atoms to the center;means for permitting the application of the magnets in a uniform and consistent manner to the fuel conduit;means for correctly positioning and maintaining the magnets in their proper relationship to the fuel line;means for greater fuel efficiency and reduction of harmful pollutants;means for separating the carbon and hydrogen elements for greater fuel efficiency and lower pollution; andmeans for the reduction of the emissions of the flu gases eliminating many of the pollutants emitted into the atmosphere.




I'm guessing from this, that the crappier the fuel is, the better the product will work. Probably explains some claims it does work, while others it is immeasurable...
Site: Magnetic hydrocarbon treatment device and method - Patent (http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080290038)

[brianwood]

Thanks Cooper,
Nah appreciate the banter and stuff. Not keen on the personal attacks though...
Wasn't meant to be an April Fools Joke, but I think it turned out to be a corker!

[isuzurover]

Here's a couple of excerpts from the patents office:






.....


To get a patent you don't have to prove that your idea works, just that it is new. There are LOTS of patents for "free energy" devices, which we all know don't work.

[brianwood]

I knows it...
But, it gives their reasonings - not any proof as such...

You know, I got a similar caning when I bought my first Landrover 5 years ago. The Toyota mob told me what a fool I was buying such an unreliable brand...

Tells you a bit about me - I don't really care what others say, I'll find out for myself. Its been the best vehicle I've ever owned in many respects. And yes, the D1 is less reliable than the 80 I had, but I enjoy working on it. So who's right and who's wrong?
Maybe there's no answer to that...

[sclarke]

Brian,
Do you accually have a Disco??? if so, What year and any pix of the Magnets on the lines???

[brianwood]

Yes I do. As my neighbour Andy testifies in this thread...
I've got a post in the Introductions forum...
Have just fininshed a camper trailer which I want to put pictures on this forum, so will include D1 then...

[Tank]

Thanks Cooper,
Nah appreciate the banter and stuff. Not keen on the personal attacks though...
Wasn't meant to be an April Fools Joke, but I think it turned out to be a corker!
Brian, no offence meant or implied, enjoy the Forum, Regards Frank.

[brianwood]

Thanks Frank,

Yeah, I think I'll just let this topic die a natural death...

[JohnF]

I have a friend named Colin who swears the magnet improved his fuel consumption. I was so convinced that I refused to spend money try it on my RR. Possibly I have wasted lots of needless money on petrol since that time. Other things like Hydrogen, and Acetone have me very convinced, but have not had the money to try them as I am spending it all on my Petrol.

[Panya]

Brian you have to be given points for persistence! Welcome to the forum and don't be put off I think all of these comments are in good humour not in any way wishing you ill. As a matter of interest to help you make your mind up a very logical write-up on this topic of which I know nothing... Fuel saving gadgets - a professional engineer's view (http://www.fuelsaving.info/magnets.htm)
I thought it well written and certainly difficult to fault from my perspective. Makes you think and the comment right at the beginning of this thread about testing your circumstance for a longer period with good record keeping before and after would propbably allow it to go down without so much scepticism! Let's face it I sometimes think if I speak nicely to the banana car it'll be less likely to go wrong!