Injection pumps

[Junosi]

Hi, during my web travels I've found some interesting information on the bosch VP(electronic) and VE(manual) fuel injection pumpts that I thought I'd share - as I wish I'd found some of it earlier myself.

Bosch part numbers explained
eg 0 460 404 973 L (my freelander pump)
eg 0 460 414 xxx VE (disco 300tdi pump)
V=distributor type pump E=Axial(R would mean radial)
VE and VP pumps start with digits 0 460 4
the 6th digit is the plunger size eg 9=9mm,0=10mm,1=11mm
the 7th digit is the number of cylinders eg 4, 6 or 8 etc
not sure on the remaining 3 digits but they don't seem important.

Its possible to convert your VP setup into a VE setup - lots of pros and cons to do this but the choice is there which is nice to know and not too difficult. You'd lose your *drive-by-wire* pump and revert back to a trusty old throttle cable. Also looked fairly simple to upgrade from a standard(for a manual)10mm head to an 11mm or even 12mm. Bigger head = more power (and smoke ?) If you're miles from a testbook dealer and want to service your own pump its worth thinking about imho.

Think this site has been linked elsewhere here but worth linking again - its a google translation link from a french site showing the innards of the pump in detail.
Translated version of http://www.forum-auto.com/pole-technique/section12/sujet293129.htm (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forum-auto.com%2Fpole-technique%2Fsection12%2Fsujet293129.htm&sl=fr&tl=en)

Cheers, Clark

[Junosi]

Worked out a whole bunch of new info this morning. One part that would seem CRITICAL to me if you're replacing your pump is the pumps direction of rotation - the VE pumps only work in one direction - I don't think it'd get destroyed turning the wrong way, it just wouldn't deliver fuel.

I'll use my current (broken) Freelander XEDi pump as an example:
It has 0 460 404 973 L 720 on the side of it - which matches code VE4/10E2100L720 (see table below)

It turns out the last three digits of the VP37 marry up to another bosch part number that gives more information. The new code breaks down as follows:
VE = VE type pump (VP is still a VE pump)
4 = number of cylinders
/10 = 10mm plunger
E = electronic governor (F=mechanical)
xxxx number = governor controlled RPM (I assume this is pump rpm not engine rpm)
R = clockwise rotation (L = counter clockwise)
xxx-x number = production number

So I'm guessing with my Freelander 0460404973L720 that pretty much any of the 0460404 pumps below that have L rotation (counter clockwise) would work, although personally I'd probably choose one with a slightly higher rev limiter if you're intending to up performance. Also going to try an 11mm head in mine sooner or later

Glad I found this stuff out as I've been ebay bidding on one that rotates the wrong way as it turns out :eek: - a 992 from another 2di Rover 825

I'll list all the 10mm plunger VP37's I've found- haven't seen any VP37's with lower than 961 as the last 3 digits yet.
0 460 404 961 VE4/10E2250R728-4
0 460 404 962 VE4/10E2100R701-4
0 460 404 963 VE4/10E2100L694-1
0 460 404 964 VE4/10E2250R640-3
0 460 404 965 VE4/10E2200L736
0 460 404 966 VE4/10E2250R728
0 460 404 967 VE4/10E2100R701-3
0 460 404 969 VE4/10E2075R638-3
0 460 404 970 VE4/10E2250R590-3
0 460 404 971 VE4/10E2250R510-3
0 460 404 972 VE4/10E2100R724
0 460 404 973 VE4/10E2100L720
0 460 404 974 VE4/10E2100R715
0 460 404 975 VE4/10E2100R707
0 460 404 976 VE4/10E2100R701
0 460 404 977 VE 4/10 E 2075 R 700
0 460 404 978 VE4/10E2250R590-2
0 460 404 979 VE4/10E2075R696
0 460 404 980 VE4/10E2100L694
0 460 404 981 VE4/10E2100L688
0 460 404 982 VE4/10E2250R590-1
0 460 404 983 VE4/10E2250R530-1
0 460 404 984 VE4/10E2075R650
0 460 404 985 VE4/10E2250R510-1
0 460 404 986 VE4/10E2075R638
0 460 404 987 VE4/10E2250R640
0 460 404 988 VE4/10E2100R635
0 460 404 989 VE 4/10 E 2250 R 600
0 460 404 990 VE 4/10 E 2250 R 590
0 460 404 991 VE4/10E2100L585
0 460 404 992 VE4/10E2250R530
0 460 404 994 VE 4/10 E 2250 R 510
0 460 404 995 VE4/10E2250R440-1
0 460 404 997 VE4/10E2100L450
0 460 404 998 VE4/10E2250R440

Clark

[djhampson]

Thanks for the info Junosi :twobeers:

[101RRS]

I'll use my current (broken) Freelander XEDi pump as an example:
Clark

What has made you decide that there is actually something wrong with your pump?

Garry

[Junosi]

I took it apart (for fun:D) it had swarf and other crap in there that I'm sure wasn't meant to be there and a badly scored piston. The hydraulic head/piston wasn't holding pressure. I reckon someone before me has tried to start it with a dry pump maybe - I can't explain the damage otherwise. I'm going to have a crack at rebuilding it myself with a new replacement 11mm head and feed pump for $120 USD and a $24 USD rebuild kit with seals etc in it. Meanwhile I'll get a second hand rep 10mm pump from the UK I think, they're criminally cheap there. I want a spare pump anyways to do some vege oil experiments which is pretty much what I bought the flandy for, well that and some lpg injection experiments. I'm a curious soul.

Clark

[101RRS]

You are right - the pumps are really cheap in the UK - though I did miss a good one in Jan in Melbourne for $99.

Let us know how you go - you do need to ensure the electronics in the pump are Ok though as they can get expensive.

Garry

[Matplat]

If my pump is really loud, is it an indicator it is on its way out? when I pull into my garage it is almost louder than the engine! on a td4....

[101RRS]

If my pump is really loud, is it an indicator it is on its way out? when I pull into my garage it is almost louder than the engine! on a td4....

I do not know about TD4s as they are a completely different engine to the L series freelander engine. However as the TD4 is a common rail the pump just has to keep the common rail charged at a high pressure - the ECU controls the injectors - as such it is a much cheaper and simpler pump - just has to deliver high constant pressure.

I understand that compared to the L series pump - the TD4 pump is less than half the price.

Garry

[Matplat]

good to know!

[Mully]

Weeellll.... my TD4 pump in the rear died about 8 months ago and they told me $2-2.5k to swap it and the one in the engine bay. Ouch. They could only get the rear one so for a little over $1k I'm on my way.

Yesterday (yes, in peak hour again) she dies and they tell it's now the one in the engine bay and the charge will be $2500 thanks.. this time just for one pump. What the flip?

I've had the 2003 TD4 10months and it's gotta go. Trade price is $10k with a working pump or $8k as is... what a drop... they were going for $18k when I bought it.

The 300TDi never gave me this sort of grief.

Anyone got any yellow paint? :-)

Is there a decent pump in Oztralia anywhere under $1k.

Cheers.

PS: hope this is an isolated case.

[101RRS]

Sure they are not quoting you for an L series pump? I understood the TD4 injection pump was half the price of a L series - I am surprised at the cost of the lift pump - seems high.

[Mully]

Definitely a 2003 model and they have seen a lot of it... sadly.

Mega price for sure... after questioning I was told it's about $1700 for the pump and since posting here I've found one NIB in Oz for $600AUD so will be going in again tomorrow... can't believe what we patriots get charged.

[mills rover]

can anyone answer this question for me ?
ive pulled down my 200 tdi and rebuilt it but when i removed the injector pump i was suppose to lock the pump so it couldn't be turned well i didnt do it now im not sure if it did get played with . So now when i have to refit the pump how do i know if its set right with the timing of cam and crankshaft is there something on the injector sproket that will tell me that or someother way of telling ? Or can i take it somewhere and get them to check it to make sure its ok and it didnt get spun around

Thanks guys any help will be apreciated
i should have read my workshop manual prior to removing it

Andy

[101RRS]

Andy,

You have posted this in the Freelander section which most likely will not a lot of coverage as most landy people are Freelanderphobic :D.

I suggest you move your post to the technical section or to either the Defender or Discovery 1 section as is appropriate for your engine.

But you should be able to set the engine up and then the pump up so that all is in alignment when you reassemble - it should be in your workshop manual - I am sure some of the mechanics on the forum will pick up on this and help you out.

Cheers

Garry

[Junosi]

... can't believe what we patriots get charged.

Totally agree. I gave up on the aussy vendors - both used and new. Had a quick look on british ebay and there's an under bonnet pump there for £180 ($360AUD) if that helps. Still puzzles me why the low pressure pumps on these things cost so much - cause they can is the only answer I came up with.

[101RRS]

Still puzzles me why the low pressure pumps on these things cost so much - cause they can is the only answer I came up with.

Particularly when lift pumps are not actually needed as evidenced by the suction bulb system used in the L series diesels.

Garry

[Mully]

Yeah it bites big time. Even after telling them I was being raped they are immovable so I've now traded the Freeby in. I could get it home and sort it myself but to be honest, in another 100 thou or so I'd start sweating again.

It has been a great ride and she'll be missed but now it's back to the bigger trucks... this time the TD5.

Thanks to all here.

[101RRS]

The question is of course was the pump actually knackered. The TD4 being common rail, the injector pump just runs at a constant high pressure and does nothing else unlike other diesel pumps.

When I was looking for a pump for my L series I was quoted by the local stealer (but not actually provided by Land Rover) $1700 and when I asked the guy to double check that it was not a TD4 pump he said it was correct as the TD4 pump was $750.

Anyway - I am surprised with your issues as the TD4 has an excellent reliability record and is the best and most reliable version of the FL1.

With your new TD5 you will have to invest in the center difflock activation mechanism as one of your first jobs.

Good luck with it.

Garry

[Mully]

Hey thanks Gary. Yeah it was a beaut little truck I have to say... excellent donk in it. It did have a nasty little leak that was only going to get worse but hey, what's new?

I was reading last night about the diff lock on the TD5.... what a thing to take away! Will definitely look at getting that back, it saved my butt once in the 300TDi.

Cheers!