Urgent Help Rangie sleeping on roadside tonight!!!

[British Bulldog]

Hey All
My 85 rangie is sleeping on the roadside tonight and I am very scared :eek: whether it will be there tomorrow. The reason it is sleeping there and what I need help with is on the way home the after market tacho which is connected to the coil started smoking I know its bad for its health. Then the car had no go it would not rev it just rolled to a gentle stop. So first things first has it got fuel? YES. Second do we have spark at the plugs? NO. So after this find do we have spark from the coil? NO OK do we have power at the coil? YES So in theory (which is never right) its the coil. So the wife brings me the coil from the spare rangie. Plug it all in and start again. Spark at plugs? NO Spark at coil? NO Power to coil? YES So what the, could it be two dead coils? The spare one I know has a large crack in it but was working but not sure of its condition now. So the big question is my theory right a dead coil or could it be the electronic ignition module (please say no) or worse the dizzy system has died (please say no). If its the coil what is the best to buy and from where.
Please help urgently before I have only two chassis rails left.

[abaddonxi]

Did you disconnect the tacho?

Cheers
Simon

[British Bulldog]

Yes was the first thing I did.

[BigJon]

Sounds like you have power at the coil, but possibly no negative switching happening.

I suspect the electronic ignition module...

[British Bulldog]

I have power to both sides of the coil while its trying to start.

[big guy]

Fuses??

[British Bulldog]

Which ones I have yet to understand the fuse box. Its the one inside on the passenger side of the dash.

[350RRC]

Hi,

At least you can sleep well knowing that no-one will want to steal a RRC.

cheers, DL

[barney]

can the racv tow it home for you?
sounds like the coil to me, but if the ignition module is clagged, you wont get any spark either.
you should be able to test the coil by hooking up the positive to a power source and connecting the negative wire to it and flashing it on earth, this should produce a spark from the high tension lead to earth as you are simulating the switching pf the ignition module.
either way, you could be in for a long session trying to find the fault.
first thing though, disconnect that tacho before it cooks your whole electrical system.
best of luck

[British Bulldog]

If the module was dead would i still power to the coil or not?

[barney]

yes.
you have 12v going to the positive of your coil the whole time the ignition is on. the distributor via the hall sensor, switches the negative from the coil, completing the circuit to earth.
everytime a spark jumps out one of the leads, the coil is being enrgised and de-energised. that is how it generates the spark, it's basically a transformer where 12v is transformed into 50,000v or whetever.
normally, transformers will only work on AC voltages, the thing works by the constant reversing of the voltage,as it builds up in one direction a voltage is produced, then as it collapses and runs the other way, an opposite voltage is produced. that's what the "A" stands for in AC, alternating!
so if you put a steady DC voltage on to a coil, you get nothing unless it goes on and off, that is why the distributor switches it on and off via the negative tab of the coil, and this is the point you connect your tacho to (when it's not stuffed)

[British Bulldog]

Hey barney so what are exactly saying its the coil ignition module or the dizzy that has died?

[BigJon]

It could be either of those things, but more likely to be the module.

The distributor tells the module when to turn the coil on and off.

Is your ignition system standard or aftermarket?

[BigJon]

I have power to both sides of the coil while its trying to start.

Should have 12v on the +ve side and a switched +ve on the negative side.

[British Bulldog]

Standard I believe just the ignition module under the coil.
By the way people its not the coil as I went to super not so cheap bought a brand new one still no spark. So its not the coil. So it must be the module where is the best place to get one and how much

[British Bulldog]

Hey guys
I have got it home I ended up getting it towed. So far I have replaced the coil and ignition module with ones from rover parts. Guess what still no spark. I got the newer module and coil as he said it would be better. So now the only thing that is left is the dizzy. Is it rare for these to die and do they die suddenly or would you notice something before they die. Is there anything else it could be before i go and fork over another $265 as I have already spent $130. Thanks for all your help so far.

[mike 90 RR]

Hey guys
I have got it home I ended up getting it towed. So far I have replaced the coil and ignition module with ones from rover parts. Guess what still no spark. I got the newer module and coil as he said it would be better. So now the only thing that is left is the dizzy. Is it rare for these to die and do they die suddenly or would you notice something before they die. Is there anything else it could be before i go and fork over another $265 as I have already spent $130. Thanks for all your help so far.

All there is in that Dizzy is a "electro magnet" ... The "Star spindle" rotates and as each point of the star lines up with the magnet ... It closes the circuit ... that gives the pulse to fire the coil

Do you have a Haynes manual? .... As it explains it perfectly
You can use a Multi meter to test & see if the "electro magnet" is working


Also the gap between the "Magnet & the star" has to be set ...have you checked it ... should be ...

Feeler gauges (non Ferrous)
Imperial ... 0.008 to 0.014 in
Metric .... 0.20 to 0.35mm




Just a thought
Have you checked the Rotor Button? ... These can fail even when new .. Swap it for the other one that you have

Have you looked at the Dizzy cap ... I would not expect this to Totally stop spark ... So doubt if this is a problem

Have you checked that Power is actually getting to the Coil? (multi meter)


Best of luck

Mike
:)

[barney]

it's not a magnet as such, it's a hall sensor. as the spike on the dizzy spindle passes across it, it generates a very tiny current which acts as a trigger to switch the ignition module.
although it has to do with moving magnetic fields and different metals, it's not a magnet, that would be too slow to react.

[mike 90 RR]

it's not a magnet as such, it's a hall sensor. as the spike on the dizzy spindle passes across it, it generates a very tiny current which acts as a trigger to switch the ignition module.
although it has to do with moving magnetic fields and different metals, it's not a magnet, that would be too slow to react.

Thanks, Barney .... :)




I got the newer module and coil

Did you hook up the positive and negative terminals up the correct way to the module? .... As it will not function (work) if you have reversed it

Recheck the wire connection

On my RRC ....
I also upgraded from a 2 pin module to the 3 pin module ... and hooked up the positive and negative terminals to the module the wrong way ..and it did not work ... So I reversed it and then fired up (worked)

Note .. if it is the 3 pin module that you got ... The middle pin has no wire connection ... just the 2 outside ones


ANOTHER THOUGHT
Also you said that you melted the Tacho wires ... Have you checked the wire loom going to the Dizzy from the coil ... for other shorted wires?

Also there is that capacitor that bolts to the coil ... Disconnect it .. just incase it has shorted


Hope it helps

Mike
:)

[Waxenwane]

Give me a call on 0415850907, if you can be bothered getting to Cheltenham on Saturday or Sunday I have some solutions to get you going again.
For a lot less than what you have paid so far.

[British Bulldog]

Thanks Waxenwane I will give you a call Sunday morning if that's all right I would today but I have been roped into working the V music festival at the show grounds
Regards
Kris

[British Bulldog]

Hey guys this saga still continues. After getting a lumenition system of waxenwayne and fitting that up and still no go due to the module being dead I decided to go back in time and fitted up the points dizzy that I had sitting around. Now it almost starts once then just cranks. I have got spark from the coil but very weak only about 1mm. And there is no spark from any of the leads. The dizzy cap, leads, and spark plugs are only about 3 months old. Anyone got any ideas what could be causing such a little amount of spark coming from the coil which is brand new and its the same with the old one as well. This is driving me nuts, I am really considering getting it going and selling it to buy a diesel 60 series cruiser for reliability.
Cheers Kris

[cucinadio]

Did you disconnect the tacho?

Cheers
Simon



:eek:....:confused:......in the name of an unnamed red head ...
......"please explain"..............;)


cheers

[British Bulldog]

Yeah the tacho was smoking when this whole problem started.

[PhilipA]

Did you get 7 volt coils?

On earlier Rangies they usually have 2 + leads to the coil. one is 12V and only powers while starting and the second is a resistance (white)wire which feeds 7V to the coil all the time the engine is running.

You know it is coil negative terminal Low tension T to Dizzy .

Other than that maybe you have yet another bad coil.

Regard sPhilip A

[Waxenwane]

I suspect you are using an electronic ignition issue coil, you need an earlier model.

[British Bulldog]

Thanks for that Wayne the lights just went on which coil should I use is a Bosch gt40r work and would I need to use a resistor as well.

Thank You so much

[Blknight.aus]

if youve got the points dizzy in

run 1 wire from the battery to the + side of the coil and crank it over.

if it doesnt start and run then (assuming fuel and all else is well)

disconnect the coil

run a small light between the battery and the dizzy points lead and turn it over slowly (by hand on the fan or a spanner on the nut of the alternator) if the light doesnt blink theres something wrong with the points.

hows the battery voltage while cranking?

[slug_burner]

gooroos, any chance the dizzy is now incorrectly aligned? That should not affect the health of the spark but will stuff up timing and make staring a problem.

Where abouts in the wild west are you?

[Waxenwane]

Thanks for that Wayne the lights just went on which coil should I use is a Bosch gt40r work and would I need to use a resistor as well.

Thank You so much

Sorry for the late reply, I've been getting the Range Rover ready to go, last minute trip.
First of all check what the run and start voltage is at the coil to determine if you need a resistor, i:e at start it should be around 12 volts and depending on your wiring the run position may have 9 volts or 12 (been a while since i've seen a standard Rangie ignition system) From memory I dont think they ran a ballast resistor so I would think a GT40 coil over a resistor model.
Using the coil that you have maybe the reason the Lumenition system fried. They where designed to be used with the standard points setup coil, it's something to do with lower voltages and less drain I'm told.
Anyway I have another Lumenition module if you wish to continue or just bring it back. (after Easter)

[mike 90 RR]

I'ld do as Dave suggests first ...

If you can't get spark ... Hot Wire it (the coil) ... Then you will know what to do

Mike

[British Bulldog]

Hey guys its going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:):):): ):)

It was the wrong coil and the points were wrong but swapped those out. I highly recommend British Car parts in Nth Melb he is a really good guy with lots of knowledge. I also got Ace mobile mechanics out to fit the second lot of points and time it for me for piece of mind. Now this guy is a piece of work charged. He charged me $123 for nothing really. He asked the what the timing should be I told him 10 degress BEFORE TDC which he told me he had set it to. He also had no feller gauges or dwell meter to set points gap. After he left I drove it home and it wouldn't go above 50kmh and was running like a bag of crap. So got home lifted bonnet No 8 spark plug was ripped off he had left it lying amongst the pulleys. So off I go to not so cheap got a new one put it on. Still running rough as so I check dwell miles out reset still running terrible. I checked timing this is the total tool factor here it was set to 12 degress AFTER TDC. Reset timing to where it should be adjusted idle and guess what it runs smooth as.
So lesson learnt don't pay mechanics they have no clue do it yourself.
But its going PARTY. Thanks for all the info and help guys you lot are the best.
Cheers Kris:)

[mike 90 RR]

Hey guys its going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:):):): ):)

Glad it worked out for you ... :)

Mike

[350RRC]

From memory I dont think they ran a ballast resistor so I would think a GT40 coil over a resistor model.


Hi,

What confuses a lot of people is that the older ones with a resistor coil use a separate resistor wire, i.e. there is no ballast resistor hanging off the coil.

It's white with a pink trace (pink will have faded) and inside is a silvery coloured wire, rather than copper.

The 12 volt starting wire to the coil comes from the starter motor and is white / purple.

cheers, DL