Pics of LPG setups on EFI V8's wanted.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi people

I have a 4.6 EFI/Motec with dual fuel with a AirRod converter/regulator on my RRc, I also have the mixer plate off an '89 RRc which fitted to the front of the MAS.

Today I was removing a 4.6 from a D1 to use in my SIIB project. The donor vehicle has an Impco gas system where the converter and regulator are two different components.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/1704.jpg

I don't want to go to either the expense or complexity of injected gas but I want the best and hopefully simplest system available for when I am travelling. (Things always fail at the worst possible time and in the worst possible location, thank you Mr Murphy) I have been advised that SprintGas converter/regulator are the most trouble free.

Can people post some pics of the LPG system on their V8's so I can get a better understanding of whats out there and I can get a suitable system for my SIIB conversion?

Diana

[Lotz-A-Landies]

O.K. So no one has an LPG system on an EFI V8.

The Impco system will be too awkward under the restricted space in the f/c engine bay (same space as the seat box in the 110, without the space where the fuel tank and battery box usually are) so will have to look elsewhere! :BigCry:

[up2nogood]

I'm using a Gas Research LPG carburettor on a Thor manifold. Separate Century convertor. But then I have lots of room, so no dramas.

But it's still in bits, still working out how to blank off the EFI injector holes. So a pic wouldn't be worth two knobs of goat poo.......

[scarry]

Diana,sorry cant help you with set up on LR's,as i have no experience,but this may interest you.I have a number of Mitsi vans on LPG,& we are finding the Lpg Sprint Gas (not injection),Only seem to last around 130000 k's approx.The converter then needs replacing,and sometimes the computer.

My gas man has also had problems with every Sprint Gas injection system he has ever fitted,injector problems.:(

He is now using Impco.

We have now gone to Hi aces,& they are fitted factory with Landirenzo injection systems,so far,no problems.They also use less LPG,even though they are heavier,&bigger.

Hope the above is some help....

[rovercare]

But it's still in bits, still working out how to blank off the EFI injector holes. So a pic wouldn't be worth two knobs of goat poo.......

Welch plugs;), yep, they come that small:D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

... I have a number of Mitsi vans on LPG,& we are finding the Lpg Sprint Gas (not injection),Only seem to last around 130000 k's approx. The converter then needs replacing,and sometimes the computer.

My gas man has also had problems with every Sprint Gas injection system he has ever fitted,injector problems.:(

He is now using Impco.

We have now gone to Hi aces,& they are fitted factory with Landirenzo injection systems,so far,no problems. ...Thanks for that information, interesting about the SprintGas .... I got a report similar to that about the AirRod converter-regulators (when my diaphragm failed), was told that SprintGas was usually the one fitted as a replacement and it was the industry standard for Taxis.

My problem with Impco is having the space for two components the same size as the AirRod one. The forward control has a wheel on either side of the seat box and with the V8 the remaining engine bay will be very crowded, with additional items like the gear lever replicator mechanism which runs over the top of the engine.

Will investigate Landirenzo!

[up2nogood]

Welch plugs;), yep, they come that small:D


Sweeeeeeeeet! Was thinking that would be a good solution that didn't involve welding!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I'm using a Gas Research LPG carburettor on a Thor manifold. Separate Century convertor. But then I have lots of room, so no dramas. ..... Not an option, if I want to have dual fuel as there is still no LPG in lots of places and it will never be in places where you have to pump from drums like the fuel dump on the Canning stock route.

[up2nogood]

Not wrong. The Disco I'm doing is a daily driver/ highway and 'close to fuel' runner. No damn way I'd go the CSR, etc, in it.

Long distance is a diesel Bushy.

If you're sticking with dual, and want it simple, the good old mixer ring in front of the efi throttle body is simplest. You will also need a switchable/programmable distributor as LPG and petrol use different advance curves. This is the main reason why people say their car is gutless on LPG, or pings on petrol. The Italian sequential LPG systems are flash, and work best, but they're electronic so have more goodies. Still, I don't believe they're unreliable.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Yes I happy with the LPG system on my RRC, it uses the gas ring you speak of coupled to the AirRod converter regulator. The engine management is Motec as my RRc was a carby unit and Cooper's in St Peters (didn't fit the gas) have activated the switchable option in the M48 programmable ECU (usually used for running nitrous) to change the curve.

I have 87 Kw on LPG and 94 Kw on unleaded using their rolling rack Dyno.

[V8Landy]

Try here

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery/74810-lpg-thread.html

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Thanks Brett

I hadn't seen that thread before.

Several of the setups use the same mixer ring as on my RRc, but I also noticed that the first one still had the crankcase breather connected in the original position after the LPG mixer. This was also the situation on the donor Disco 1.
My LPG fitter was very concerned that I not use that port to the extent that I had to have a fitting made to move the breather before the mixer ring.

One wonders if this is why so many people have backfire problems on V8s with LPG (when I have had none)?

Diana

[V8Landy]

Interesting, Have you got a closeup of the fitting and where it is attached.???

[bee utey]

All series 1 Disco's and V8 classics don't need the crankcase breather shifted, because they don't use PCV valves like Australian cars. The fumes always create positive pressure in the crankcase, so no LPG can enter the breather. P38 engines are different, they need the breather shifted. I have done a couple of Bosch injected cars with sequential Zavoli/M.G.A. systems, they seem to be running well.

[p38arover]

I have the system I pulled off my 4.6.

A venturi on the EFI manifold and the Landi Renzo SE81 converter suitable for large engines.

See http://p38arover.com/lpg/Landi_Renzo_SE81.max (it's a PaperPort file, you'll need the downloadable viewer).

[redbuba]

I have had a sprint gas system put on my D2 2000 at ezy gas in jan (injected) and it has never worked properly. They have had the car for more than 6 weeks over up and till now and blamed all sorts of things. The car at first run OK only on petrol but when you change to gas it trows everything out and will not even run properly on petrol. Has any one Have any ideas. Thanks Benny

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I have the system I pulled off my 4.6.

A venturi on the EFI manifold and the Landi Renzo SE81 converter suitable for large engines.

See http://p38arover.com/lpg/Landi_Renzo_SE81.max (it's a PaperPort file, you'll need the downloadable viewer).Thanks Ron

Do you still have the bits and what are you going to do with them.

Along the same lines - does the P38a have a MAS and is the venturi on the MAS or on the plenum?

Diana

[p38arover]

Thanks Ron

Do you still have the bits and what are you going to do with them.

Along the same lines - does the P38a have a MAS and is the venturi on the MAS or on the plenum?

Diana

Hi Diana. Yes, I still have the bits and I want to get rid of them. The venturi screws onto the plenum. The P38A has a MAF sensor.

I also have an OMVL R90/E two stage converter.

Ron

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Thanks Ron

We may have to do deal, but is the plenum on the P38a the same as on the D1 and RRc?
Can I fit the dougnut/venturi after the MAS on a D1 system? (This is the whole reason for this entire thread and I'm still no wiser.)

Diana

[p38arover]

Thanks Ron

We may have to do deal, but is the plenum on the P38a the same as on the D1 and RRc?

I can measure the P38A plenum tomorrow if you like.


Can I fit the dougnut/venturi after the MAS on a D1 system? (This is the whole reason for this entire thread and I'm still no wiser.)

I had a venturi fitted on the plenum on my 4.6 '86 RR (but that used a Haltech EFI system and a MAP sensor, not a MAF).



I

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Thanks again Ron -

If you can measure the plenum (or the dougnut you have from the 4.6) that would be great.

As you would have read from the start of this thread the engine is going into a SIIB and there is not enough room for the system in the first image to fit under the seatbox (where the engine is). The system also had a history of back firing, which may be the flame trap, or the position of the PCV into the plenum after the LPG was introduced. Whatever the reason, either way I am not content to use that LPG system in the project vehicle.

My hope is to use a dougnut similar to that on my 4.6 Motec/EFI RRc, but using the standard Disco 1 ECU and MAS has me a little out of my knowledge base.

Diana

[bee utey]

Hi Guys, All EFI engines to 1998 use a 72mm diameter at the manifold. You can only use a mixer ring at the manifold when you have a MAS without moving vanes. Ergo, to use an early 3.5 litre mechanical vane sensor you need a plate mixer before the MAS and a backfire protector valve after it. If you are using the later type (3.9, 4.6) MAS you should be using a mixer ring of around 45mm bore size. Otherwise strangulation results! 80% of backfires are due to poor ignition timing, plugs and leads. 10% are because of poor petrol start relay adjustment/wiring. The other 10% are mechanical failure.
Lean mixtures and high throttle openings cause high ignition voltages to induce sparks at other cylinders. Proper electricals can reduce backfires to very occasionally only.