12v compressors.

[Blknight.aus]

getting a little impatient in my old age, I cooked up this.. (ok its specially done for the cape trip)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/04/1139.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/04/1140.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/04/1141.jpg

on a battery thats sitting at 12.5 and drops to 11.3 when its running the startermotor without the clutch pulled in. (no idea what it hits when its loaded) filling just the air tank in the middle (which is a recycled 2.5kg gas bottle)

0-60 psi in 30 seconds
60-100 in 1 minute
100-125pis in 1:30.

(and thats with some slight leakage on a couple of the fittings that I havent gooped closed yet)

draws a few more amps than your average 12v compressor tho. and yes, it will run a 1/2 inch drive rattle gun.

all thats left is to re plumb it from the test config so the electrics are on, add the belt tensioner and find a "shooter" tank for it to fill.

[EchiDna]

looks the goods Dave, a great start :)

Two comments - have you considered re-orietating the gas bottle horizontally under (or over) the mechanical bits? might make it a better "shape" for storage...

lastly, you should install an over pressure vent valve in the tank outlet, that an an oiler of some kind are the only things missing IMHO...

[Blknight.aus]

no requirement for an oiler the compressor has an oil housing underneath, thats why a while back I was chasing a very specific sort of ex aircon compressor (this is mostly the end result)

the blow off valve will be mounted on the pressure switch assembly that Ive ratted from a 240v compressor that was sacrificed to other bodges. (even then its not really required as the compressor stops pushing at about 175psi and the weakest item in the system is the red hose at 300psi)

the tank was mounted vertically for a few reasons

I intend to drill and fit an Auto drain valve to the bottom of it (the tank is only ment to be a wet tank/reserve for the time it takes to move from one tyre to the next)
making a frame to mount it elsewhere ment welding on the actual pressure vessel instead of the mounted flanges (and added weight)
how it is if you pick it up by the tank handle it balances quite well
If I sit it as is on the side sponson of fozzy its out of harms way and wont interfere with lashings.


the main idea is that the little air tank is a wet tank for when Im using it to fill bigger tanks (the shooter tank) or run rattle guns and to allow constant running of the motor between tyres on the CCC trip.

[EchiDna]

ah ok, all makes sense now :)

so what compressor is it? built in oiler etc? I assume it is a York or similar?

[Blknight.aus]

thats the one, york 2 pot recipricator.

the scroll ones are a bit more effecient and flow better but need the oiler on the inlet and grease conversion.

oh one other reason that the tank is where it is is that thats the distance the belt let me set the motor and the compressor at and the gap was just the right size for the tank with a couple of inches of movement back on the motor so I can sneak it inwards to replace the belt.

[EchiDna]

what's next? onboard arc welder? :)

Jon's Place/Jeep Page (http://www.huv.com/jon/jeep/Welder/on-board-welder.html)

or maybe a portable one:
Jon's Place/Jeep Page (http://www.huv.com/jon/jeep/Welder/portable-welder.html)

[DeeJay]

I'd be really interested in how this goes over time. I have had the parts for quite a few years to do a similar setup - using a starter motor from a small Jap car, but I was told that starters are designed for short usage under high load and are'nt the best for the job.
I've been looking for a 12v motor for some time now, but if yours performs, then i've been badly informed.

[bcr2734]

I brought a S3 SWB years ao and is a project quietly gaing steam. Anyrate i fould when i brought it , it had a air con fitted to the 2.25 petrol motor. belt running onto it from motor. I was going to get 2 truck air tanks like a Iveco 4500 series ( due to them being short and alloy) and plumbing up the system up.

Question is why have it portable when u could fix it and have Air fitting at each end of car ( e.g suzi coil fitting from a truck)and a 5 mtr lead to do everything?

I'm sorry if has been explained at another thread or i have stuffed up your idea.

Cheers


Brian

[big guy]

Why????????


Good to see you recycle but would you be seen using that contraption.

Full marks for engineering though.

[Sprint]

why not? it works, is costing dave very little, and is built to his requirements, not built to someone elses design where compromises are made to get it to fit

[Blknight.aus]

why is it portable...

Just in case... :)

no really thats the portable one and I did it for a few reasons


Its only a prototype to make make sure the concept is sound, I have a second compressor that will be mounted to fozzy

If i dont get time to finish fitting the permanant version to fozzy I still have a kick ass compressor

I made it while I was on EX, I dont think it would have been appreciated me lugging fozzy to the ex and back just to fit a compressor

With it being portable its not limited or stuck on my vehicle, if fozzy dies then the compressor can be moved and used.

[bcr2734]

good reason.

[big guy]

Good reason.

[Blknight.aus]

so far its got about an hours worth of run time for various tests and the total rounded costs are as follows.

second hand 12v 2.25 startermotor nada (I had one kicking around)
new 12v 100amp solenoid $15
cable and connectors $15 (some parts were leftovers and the clamps are off of an old set of jumperleads)
second hand compressor control unit nada (came on a 240v compressor that came free with fozzy)
Steel for fabrication $30ish including all the bolts and the leftover offcuts
2x large hose clamps $10
various air fittings $20
second hand aircon compressor (Nada TY AULRO)
out of date Gas bottle (nada again I had one)

so for $90 odd you can go buy

http://www.autobarn.com.au/AB_images/products/images/prod_1197594457.jpg

or for that and a little elbow grease you could produce

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/913.jpg

That monstrosity... which sucks about 70 amps and pushes enough air to run a rattle gun


ITs bare bones but it works just like a real compressor....

All it needs now is a safety cage for the belt (probabley not gunna happen) and the safety relief valve.

given where Im planning on mounting it The cage isnt a big priority and just for poops and giggles Ive run it in full idiot mode with just the compressor and the gauge on trying to blow something up after 10 minutes the gauge was just shy of pegged and not moving.

Since Ive gotten it this far Ive managed to get a slight leak on one of the fittings so Im not stressed about leaving it fully charged and the sun heating it till it bursts, it leaks from 140psi-0 in about 5 minutes.

[John W]

Looks great and would be a fun project. Wondering about the safety of the LPG tank. Would think that LPG is nowhere near the 140 psi that you are playing with but I expect that the tank design is probably way over engineered for LPG anyway ? For a hose or fitting to blow at 140 psi no big deal but if a tank went there would be real potential for grievous bodily harm.

[John W]

Ignore my previous post, talking through my A.., just looked up the data. LPG at 100 deg F is about 175 psi so the LPG tank should be just perfect.

[DeeJay]

If you have used the original gas bottle fitting/s it will have a 250 PSI relief valve there as standard.
The bottle is made - originally- to take around 400 psi. before something gives.
It doesn't look like you have welded on the barrel, so no problemo....

[Blknight.aus]

tested today.....

25 mins worth of tyres....

about 3 minutes to take 4 7.50r16's from 16psi-32.

the cheapy jumper cables that I sacraficed to make the battery connections from got very very un cold, the cable had started to get warm to the touch and the startermotor had also started to warm up, but I could still touch it.

Might bite the bullet and make the connections up out of some real wire instead of the piddly 70a stuff I started with along with permanantly mounting it to the vehicle.

I realise that sort of defeats the portability bit of it but Im not comforatble with setting fire to batteries if the current clamps go melty.

[Aaron IIA]

Just read the BBQ LPG bottle.
T.P. 33MPa
Which converts to about 2300 Psi.
The LPG bottle will be able to hold the pressure.

Aaron.

[Blknight.aus]

only 2300psi...

damn, thats only over engineered by a factor of about 16 times....

anyone got a small high pressure boiler I can get a long term loan of?

[Randylandy]

did you considder coupling the motor directley to the pump or was it just too much a hassel?

[Aaron IIA]

That would probably result in the compressor being too high geared. Also, belts are very good at accomodating minor mis-alignment.

Aaron.

[Slunnie]

Just about all single unit compressors run the pump directly off the electric motor shaft. Probably end up being faster pumping at low pressures and slower at high pressures - I guess up to 50psi roughly is where you would want it to be fast rather than 140psi. It's probably belt driven to test the concept though, especially if Fozzy is to have the pump engine driven.

[Aaron IIA]

What ratio you use in any application is all about torque matching. The starter motor may power the compressor in direct drive, but this will use far more electricity, in a less efficient manner. As it was stated as getting warm to the touch in the geared down mode, it will get hot in the direct drive mode. The proprietry brand air compressors that operate in direct drive mode have a much lower swept volume, so needing less torque. They then increase the speed to get any discernable amount of compressed air. This home made compressor is no toy. It will be able to provide a serious amout of air at a decent duty cycle.

[lardy]

dave you being a go for it kinda guy in the metalology dept can you make a tig/mig welder utilising the power on a truck without compromising your ability to move after ie will it blow your sparks, might be a question more for the reme (oops wrong country) raeme boys, i seem to remember seeing an article on such a feat of diy engineering

[lardy]

with ref to compressors and for the hard of thinking er ...that's me, if the compressor produces say 100 psi(just a figure) would that convert to 100 psi into the holding tank or do you get loss in conversion at all just i never have had a compressor.

[Blknight.aus]

did you considder coupling the motor directley to the pump or was it just too much a hassel?

Yes and Yes


That would probably result in the compressor being too high geared. Also, belts are very good at accomodating minor mis-alignment.

Aaron.

Correct in both cases as well as DOR of the statermotor was the wrong way for the compressor if it was direct drive (not that it really matters for a york recipricator)

[Blknight.aus]

with ref to compressors and for the hard of thinking er ...that's me, if the compressor produces say 100 psi(just a figure) would that convert to 100 psi into the holding tank or do you get loss in conversion at all just i never have had a compressor.

Without getting all rocket surgeon on you.

Technically pumps dont make pressure, they make flow. Pressure is the result of a resistance to that flow.

Ignoring all that crud. Yep in that particular setup because I have no check valves or pressure regulators whatever turns up on the output side of the compressor in theory (which means ignoring the losses caused by flow and restrictions within the system) turns up at the end of the hose I plug into the QD on the bottle.


dave you being a go for it kinda guy in the metalology dept can you make a tig/mig welder utilising the power on a truck without compromising your ability to move after ie will it blow your sparks, might be a question more for the reme (oops wrong country) raeme boys, i seem to remember seeing an article on such a feat of diy engineering

its very easy to setup a welder off of a vehicle, in particular 24v vehicles and now fozzy since I have 2 700CCA batteries with some "Im not messing around here" interconnect cables in parallel with each other.

In my case I just hook the batteries up in series (which means rerouting one cable and disconnecting another) and using my jumper leads Im good to go for stick welding and IF i could get my hands on a wire feeder Mig welding (It could in theory do tig but I cant tig, yet.) If I ever get my hands on one of the alternators I really really want I'll convert fozzy to 24v and air start with the ability to throw about 120A at 30v.

as for blowing the electronics up.....

its Fozzy, what electronics? ATM the radio isnt even wired up.



Just by the by and don't tell anyone but Technically speaking I am one of the RAEME boys.

[Slunnie]

What ratio you use in any application is all about torque matching. The starter motor may power the compressor in direct drive, but this will use far more electricity, in a less efficient manner. As it was stated as getting warm to the touch in the geared down mode, it will get hot in the direct drive mode. The proprietry brand air compressors that operate in direct drive mode have a much lower swept volume, so needing less torque. They then increase the speed to get any discernable amount of compressed air. This home made compressor is no toy. It will be able to provide a serious amout of air at a decent duty cycle.
Hot to touch isn't a guide though. The old ARB would get hot enough to melt the hoses and burn you, the new ARB compressor gets even hotter, flows more air and uses half the amps and will air up a couple of cars without a break. Don't get me wrong, and I think Kudos to Dave and its not about anything - I'm always a fan off getting stuff done and innovation such as this. If its a prototype, then its probably not all that relevant how hot the starter gets anyway if its going to be engine driven.

[Blknight.aus]

thats the kicker, most of my prototypes for proof of concept wind up as final design and retire to full service.

[Redback]

I got a Big Red about a week ago, bloody good compressor and a bit cheaper than the new ARB AND it's a Thomas need I say more:D

Baz.

[JDNSW]

Just one point you might think about Dave. Starter motors probably only turn about as many times in the life of a vehicle as this one will in a couple of hours operation. If it is the motor I think you are using, it has plain bushes for bearings, and these will not last very long in this type of service.

The only case I can think of where a starter motor was used for a vaguely similar purpose was to wind cable reels - and it was necessary to replace the bearings with antifriction ones.

John

[Blknight.aus]

its already clocked about 3 hours and Ive now got plans to make the earth for the soleniod through a thermo switch @70 degrees to shut it down on over heat.

if you're thinking its an old series 2.25 petrol starter motor your right and yep I know that the bushes arent going to be up to "forever" ops.....

I'm sourcing up a replace ment motor and will rebearing it for V2 which will probabley see this thing also having a hydraulic pump on it as well as the air compressor.....

[Jock The Rock]

Hey Dave that thing is sweet

I have only just seen this thread

Once I get my pay I'll be out to get my compressor :D

[Blknight.aus]

I got a Big Red about a week ago, bloody good compressor and a bit cheaper than the new ARB AND it's a Thomas need I say more:D

Baz.

sure you do, how much did it cost?

can it run a rattle gun?

[Redback]

sure you do, how much did it cost?

can it run a rattle gun?

Doesn't need too, yours will, I'll just borrow it:p

$370 it cost, with 10mtrs of hose.

Your pretty good with your hands Dave, looking at your creation, what's the chances of a solar panel tracker;):D

Baz.

[Blknight.aus]

not imposable depending on how big you want it and what you need it to do.

A dish tracker module is the best bet then use a small picaxe controller that uses 2 inputs to read 2 LDR's to workout the best orientation then drives the module to suit.

I'm starting to move away from solar and I'm starting to think about playing with VAT wind generation.

[Blknight.aus]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/315.jpg

blows tubeless tyres back on in seconds, fills in 4 minutes and gives me enough air to rattle off all wheel nuts.

also holds enough air to take a 15x10 from 0-30psi. without the compressor running.

[HBWC]

Blknight.aus good work on the bead blaster very handy tools should of made the y pice screw on so you could stuff rag in it to shoot the next doors cat when it pees in your garden i know i use to with the one off my work truck (back when i could walk)

[Blknight.aus]

it does screw off to make it easier to stow and carry around as well as to allow the fitting of a line launcher that I've yet to make.

[HBWC]

how did you make the t pice at the tank end as thar would make a good reserve tank when not in use as a blaster

[Blknight.aus]

making the T setup was easy the bottom piece starting from the tank is made from

brass3/4 BSP male-3/4 BSP male joiner
brass3/4 BSP female-female-female t piece

from that hangs
brass3/4 BSP male-1/2 BSP female reducer
brass1/2 BSP male-male-male T piece with
plated 1/2 BSP Female-Nitto female QD and
plated 1/2 BSP Female-1/2 BSP female full flow Ball-cock valve
plated 1/2 BSP Male-Nitto male QD.

standing from the other side of the 3/4 BSP female Tpiece is
brass 3/4 BSP Male-3/4 BSP male joiner
plated 3/4 BSP female-3/4 BSP female female full flow Ball-cock valve
(all of the above is thread sealed with loctite 567)
and the Y pipe is welded onto a black 3/4 BSP male-3/4 BSP male joiner

I have a 3/4 black plastic irrigation bung in the end of the 3/4 ball-cock as a dust cap and a 1/2inch pipe cover over the male nitto ATM.

the original concept of the whole thing was always to have a second larger tank hooked up to it using the smaller tank as a wet tank and a "surge" tank to stop the motor loading up and when going from one tyre to the next while using it as a tyre inflator.

[The Mutt]

You got me thinking again about the York I have, I was looking at hanging off the Isuzu, but maybe I could install it under the back as a seperate unit keeping the Firestone compressor as a backup (I have been told it's from the same factory as the ARB unit).

The Firestone is too slow for air tools and can be painfully slow when operating the air springs.

Now where did I put the old starter motors? from memory there were three of them here somewhere.

I kept the air tank from my first electric compressor, might use that to suppliment the 10 litre tank already under the body if there's room.

Glenn

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I've only just seen this Dave. Very impressive :)

[bblaze]

what about driving a compressor off the pto, I reckon it would tuck up nice under there. any thoughts Dave?
cheers
blaze

[isuzurover]

Dave, from personal experience, the hose between the york and the tank will eventually fail due to heat. It would be a good idea to replace that section with high temp air hose (looks like black rubber hose) or copper.

[Blknight.aus]

that is high temp air line (150 degrees operating temp from memory) and as its done the cape trip, and was only a prototype that hasnt busted yet, Im not too stressed about it...

Eventually the startermotor might get replaced with a 6hp winch motor

[101 Ron]

The Most Powerful DC Air Compressors in the World (http://www.oasisoffroad.com/)
Home-Made Endless Air - Australian 4WD Action Online Forums - the 4WD, 4x4 and offroad truck community. Get the latest tips, news, reviews, images and video clips.

[Blknight.aus]

Might has become a Must....

after just over 50hrs worth of work

the stater motor gave up in most spectacular, nearly set fire to the 160l fueltank, fashion.


Very exciting start to the day.

The fault lies with the air pressure regulator switch siezing in the on position which let it build up I dont know how much pressure as the pressure gauge pegged at 200psi.

Once the compressor stalled the motor it was just a case of inevitability that the poor much abused series starter motor turned into a very very very effecient heater drawing the pair of fully charged n70's down to below 8volts.

must have taken me about 3 seconds once the volt gauge dropped off the end to be stopped fire exinguisher out and be working at the back to try and kill the feed.

none of the main wiring melted and the batteries have tested good.

anyone got a spare stater motor?

[rar110]

Dave

I think Breen from the forum was planning to import a bulk lot of 6hp motors.

Diff is going great and vibration from front shaft gone. thanks.

[Blknight.aus]

still works.....

[Sprint]

still works.....

you did that just to rub it in, didnt you.....

[Blknight.aus]

yep... :) that and Im planning on redoing it with a small diesel engine.

[Sprint]

i'm guessing youve found a small (5-ish hp) horizontal shaft diesel engine somewhere????

[Blknight.aus]

yep, 7 hp, plan is to mount it up doing a tri drive

one for air, one for hydraulics and another for about 150A worth of 24V alternator

[Sprint]

why 24v?

[Blknight.aus]

thats what the free 3000W inverted I got for nearly free runs on.

[Barefoot Dave]

G'Day Dave.
Thanks for a great tutorial. Only questions is: What vehicles are the best source for the york compressor?
Cheers, Dave.

[Blknight.aus]

very old ones.....

thanks to the generosity of some AULROians who didnt want to be named I have a couple of compressors left over.

Im also about to set about modding the wifes disco with an EX tdi ac compressor and feeding its air inlet off of the the crank case ventilation so it gets plenty of lube, stay tuned.

[Barefoot Dave]

very old ones.....

thanks to the generosity of some AULROians who didnt want to be named I have a couple of compressors left over.

Tease! Any surplus to requirement?
What's the next best?

Like your thinking for the oiling. You'd need a catch can post compressor for a clean exaust, though?
Dave.

[Sprint]

out of curiousity, what is the new setup going to weigh, and how portable is it going to be?

[Blknight.aus]

lots and not very...

it will also be preforming double duty as

12v charge
24v charge for the inverter power
air compressor
hydraulics for the winches
(maybe aux drive into the back of the Tcase)

[Jason F]

Hi,

I've installed a set of 38 Class locomotive horns and a 3' truck horn all operating together via a solenoid from my steering wheel button (emergencies only of course). A quick touch of the button and only the electric horn operates as per normal, hold it down and the compressed air horns come in. I have a truck air cylinder fitted to hold the air. Problem is I have to top it up with air from the local garage. I have tried many electric compressors over the years to automatically top up via a solid state pressure sensor on the tank, but all electric compressors have melted down (total rubbish). Does anyone know if it is possible to fit a mechanical compressor on the same belt as the airconditioning compressor? and what product I should be fitting?

[slug_burner]

google endless air

or convert an air conditioning compressor to supply air to your tank.