An unpleasant occurrence

[justinc]

Forgot to post this up last week,

We had a 110 Tdi rock up with a unusually high oil level, the owner said he started it one morning and got a funny smell from the exhaust, and when he checked the oil it was a full 50mm above full, and he was concerned that I had overfilled it with oil as we had serviced it about a month or so ago. I pulled the stick and sure, it was way up there but it wasn't the right colour....:( I then checked the expansion bottle, which was empty.:(

Please leave your vehicle here sir while we investigate further. Another:(.
It was then he added that yesterday it was difficult to turn over in the morning, like the starter was stuck...:eek: (I'm explaining the horrors of hydraulic locking a diesel engine to him at this point:o)

So,

Head checked out fine, in fact spent 12hours on the test bench at 300kpa. Ditto head gasket. We then wandered round to the local engineering firm who profile cut from a Tdi head gasket a blanking plate to test the block. After getting the plate back and surfaced we fitted it to the block face, filled the system with hot water and were about to add some compressed air to about 15psi when we noticed goldfish swimming around in pot number 3:eek:
The piston was at BDC and there was a steady stream of water dribbling in through a pinhole just above the piston crown.:mad:

Time for another block:mad:

This vehicle is owned by a lovely bloke, loves his landy and it has taken him, his wife and caravan all over OZ in their retirement. It has been regularly serviced, always had coolant/ inhibitors, only travelled 178k.


I'm not sleeving it because other bores may also have a problem in the future.
It'll need a block, rings and pistons to 10thou because the block I'm giving him(I have about 4 of them :o) needs a rebore anyway. basically a short motor.

What a waste! I'm tipping manufacturing/ casting fault/ impurity/ bubble.

Anyone else come across an 'old faithful' Tdi do this??

JC

[cewilson]

That's a new one to me - poor bugger!

[long stroke]

Bloody hell, never heard of that;)

[Sprint]

not unheard of, i've seen a couple of engines where the block had a hairline crack that when at operating temp would open up enough to let water either into the cylinder or directly into the sump, at least this one was considerate enough to be clearly visible!

[Reads90]

I have heard of the same problem back in the early 90's with a 200 TDi but that was due to me over heating the engine. The heater pipe came off on the motorway and dump all the rad water on the passenger foot well at 130kph and cooked the engine
This caused very simular to what you have . And a pin hole that was letting in water into the 4th piston . Need a new short engine which was the only way to sort the prolem out

Are you sure this engine has not been cooked at some point

Normal the TDi's are bullet proof and the main thing that kills them is over heating

[Blknight.aus]

Thats a first in a TDi for me unless its been over heated and then butchered back into motion. Ive seen TDi bores that have been overheated, siezed and then tow started which has bulged the bore and cracked it but theres plenty of evidence that thats happened when you pull the engine down.

[rovercare]

Thats a first in a TDi for me unless its been over heated and then butchered back into motion. Ive seen TDi bores that have been overheated, siezed and then tow started which has bulged the bore and cracked it but theres plenty of evidence that thats happened when you pull the engine down.

Not without pics you ain't:p

[justinc]

Definately not been hot, the bores otherwise are perfect. Head is perfect and gasket wasn't blown. I have been servicing this vehicle for about 80k now, and believe me it has been well driven also. The hole is a perfect round pinhole, and is easily opened further with a sharp pick:eek: Definately looks like a casting bubble/ fault.:mad:

Like I said, it seems like a very rare and unpleasant occurrence for a Tdi.

JC

[rovercare]

JC gets away with not providing pics;)





Cause I have to host them and post them:wasntme:

That's a shame for him, but atleast now, it should be good for another few hundred thou:)

[justinc]

JC gets away with not providing pics;)





Cause I have to host them and post them:wasntme:

That's a shame for him, but atleast now, it should be good for another few hundred thou:)

Thats also because in this case there isn't much to see unless I have a VERY good camera, the hole is right down at the bottom of the bore, which would explain why the sump filled up when the engine was stopped with the piston at TDC, and hydraulic lock happened after the engine was stopped at BDC.

Yes, the 110 should see him out now, after this job. Not the most exciting way to spend $$ though as a self funded retiree:mad:



JC

[Blknight.aus]

any chance its corrosion from the wet side thats done it in?

[justinc]

any chance its corrosion from the wet side thats done it in?

A possibilty I had entertained Dave, BUT, the block edges in all the water ports are in beautiful condition, the cast iron as a whole is still un stained with rust, and the ally parts are in un-oxidised condition. It has had coolant from us regularly(Every 20K, plus the odd 'P' gasket and replenish in between) and until we started looking after it, had been well dealer serviced as far as I could make out. If it was any kind of corrosion/ electrolysis I would still bet that a casting fault was there in the first place to allow it to eat through so quickly.

JC

[Blknight.aus]

given its that clean, any chance its had an overzealous acid flush put through it? (there must have been a defect I agree but what was the accelerating factor)

[Slunnie]

How did the Goldfish get in there? :eek:










:D

[Blknight.aus]

jumped out of the windshield washer bottle.


duh.....

[justinc]

How did the Goldfish get in there? :eek:









:D



Well, they're gone NOW, the cormorants ate them, silly!!:p:p:p


JC

[justinc]

given its that clean, any chance its had an overzealous acid flush put through it? (there must have been a defect I agree but what was the accelerating factor)

Not sure, I know I've never done it. I guess now is a good moment to mention the OTHER time I've come across a casting defect. It was in a 1998 FL1 2 litre diesel. it had a drip, like a leaking core plug, coming from the front of the engine, (against the firewall side.)and it was a steady drip. On further investigation it appeared to be an external leak THROUGH the cast iron block:eek: I touched it with a small screwdriver and a piece of cast dropped out and the leak became a 'run' . After a while and a consultation with the owner, I decided that the best method was to see how 'big' the effected area was with the view to plugging it, as the only other fix was replace the block:o. In order to get back any kind of wall thickness, I had to die grind it out to about 10mm, then tap a 12mm thread and fit a screw in plug and copper washer. This repair is still fine, after 5 years or so. In that case, it was most certainly a casting'bubble'.

JC

[rick130]

I'm pretty sure Serg/Uninformed said he'd seen something like that (maybe two ??) in a workshop in Brisvegas (Ricks ??) after his Defender did the head and cooked itself a year or two back.
Basically ****ty casting quality/core shift.

Must be a UK (or Holden :lol2: ) thing.
I've actually seen a similar thing on some AP Racing disc rotors :eek:
I started using DBA rotors cast here after that......

[mark2]

At least the owner can be sure its in capable hands.....

[Chucaro]

We have problems of this sort in the cast iron in a few John Deere 3530 (circa 1978).

[BigJon]

Do a search on cavitation with regard to Navistar V8 diesels. (early F250, etc)

Very common for pin***** holes in the cylinder walls. A mate of mine did a lot of research following a failure in his. He now drives a Landcruiser...

[justinc]

Well,

After a good look at the water ways (as much as I could see in there) there is definately a fair bit of sediment, rusty and 'muddy' sediment, in a compacted layer at the bottom of the water jacket. It is quite thin, but there all the same. It just goes to show that all the flushing and good coolants mean nothing if it's early life has been neglected. The service book showed regular servicing on his travels around OZ while under warranty, a few other workshops for a year or so and then us up till now.

I reckon judging by what I have seen, a mixture of poor casting,(Thin and possibly bubbled?) and early cavitation/ corrosion are the prime suspects.

The coolant I drained out was bright green and clear, and was flushed last 20K ago, at last service when a 'P' gasket was done and Timing belt.

Radiator will be recored now too, 189K and 13 years the fins are getting soft.


New block will be back on Wednesday from the machinists and it'll be reassembled and back on the road hopefully by Friday:)

JC

[PAT303]

A mate of mine bought a new troopy that filled the sump with coolant driving out of the dealer that had waifer thin bores and we had lots of trouble with Prado's a few years ago with coolant use that was traced to porous heads.It just happens. Pat