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View Full Version : WT??....MERCEDES-BENZ has finally signed-off on a $350 million contract with the Aust



cucinadio
19th April 2009, 11:49 AM
MERCEDES-BENZ has finally signed-off on a $350 million contract with the Australian Defence Force that it has been working on for five years.

MotiveMag Forums: Aussie Army buys G class (http://forums.motivemag.com/zerothread?id=4105128)


without being two negative..it seems it almost defeats the purpose of all the loss doesn't it .:(.....BLOODY WOMBATS....

cheers

occcccy
20th April 2009, 02:10 PM
They sure to be better than a crusier

Occy

blitz
20th April 2009, 03:42 PM
I dont know anything about them, though I would have thought that if so many countries have them for their armies then it would have to be a capable vehicle.

Now I guess I will be burnt at the stake for herecy

Lotz-A-Landies
20th April 2009, 04:07 PM
...Now I guess I will be burnt at the stake for herecyBut maybe burnt at the stake for heresy

Tommy
20th April 2009, 04:53 PM
Searched the MotiveMag forum for Land Rover under - Discussion Forums - Car Forums - Land Rover. Guess what..

No Topics Found

No topics exist in this forum for this timeframe (365 days). You may change this timeframe in the select box below.

:(

blitz
20th April 2009, 08:29 PM
But maybe burnt at the stake for heresy


dyslexic fingers

cucinadio
20th April 2009, 08:39 PM
They sure to be better than a crusier

Occy



:D:D:D:D:D....:p...:angel:

cheers

cucinadio
20th April 2009, 08:43 PM
I dont know anything about them, though I would have thought that if so many countries have them for their armies then it would have to be a capable vehicle.

Now I guess I will be burnt at the stake for herecy


:twisted::twisted::firedevil::firedevil::firedevil ::firedevil::firedevil:....:D

Slunnie
20th April 2009, 08:47 PM
They will be be good.

I think that it will be a really good move for the ADF to be honest. I love the Landys but the G-wagon will be more capable, stronger, reliable, complient with emissions and equally as versatile as the Defender. Despite the early worrys with the Mogs, they have proven themselves well, and the g-wagon has been around for a long time already. Hopefully if there is a world war that the Benz factory isn't the first to get hit!

Blknight.aus
20th April 2009, 08:55 PM
dont hold your breath.....

it aint going well.

Ralph1Malph
20th April 2009, 09:17 PM
To be sure they are a good beast.

LR did not tender for any of the categories for a number of reasons. One of which was the inability of LR product to meet a few of the mandatory specifications, one being the resistance or surviveability to mine blasts. There were other criteria too, that stopped quite a few other tender suspects including toymota and mitsa****y.

There is a push within defence to become increasingly integrated with other armies around the world and the fact is more first world / nato countries have the g bunger than those with defenders.
We are still talking 4-5 years before they will be in general use, although the first batch for user trial arrive late this year.

I have no doubt that LR and many other manufacturers will respond to the newer requirements set by armies all around the globe.
Cheers

rick130
21st April 2009, 08:20 AM
<snip>
one being the resistance or surviveability to mine blasts.
<snip>
Cheers

Interestingly the UK Army has fitted/is fitting all the XD Wolfs in Afghanistan with alloy wheels to reduce blast damage when hitting IED's and mines. (<edit>1700kg load rating too)
There was a post on LR4x4 about a week or so back.

<edit>

thread Wheels on Army 'Defenders'. - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=32706)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42775000/jpg/_42775989_landrover416_pa.jpg (http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42775000/jpg/_42775989_landrover416_pa.jpg)

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eBKdWG6PWaqj/610x.jpg
(http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eBKdWG6PWaqj/610x.jpg)

blitz
21st April 2009, 08:22 AM
Now I know I will be burnt at the stake - I like the look of em

rick130
21st April 2009, 08:22 AM
dont hold your breath.....

it aint going well.

You aren't biased though, are you Dave ?? :angel:

What is the latest inside skinny ?

rick130
21st April 2009, 08:25 AM
Now I know I will be burnt at the stake - I like the look of em


I've always liked the G Wagon, but God they are heavy, and way back in the mists of time when i was an apprentice, a customer had one (he had a farm around Goulburn somewhere ) with the 300 diesel and I swear it was as slow as a 1200 Kombi....

Phoenix
21st April 2009, 08:26 AM
mm, any more goss for us dave?

blitz
21st April 2009, 12:47 PM
Cant find a lot about them, heavy, reliable, a grey import in Aust.

PAT303
21st April 2009, 12:54 PM
I've always liked the G Wagon, but God they are heavy, and way back in the mists of time when i was an apprentice, a customer had one (he had a farm around Goulburn somewhere ) with the 300 diesel and I swear it was as slow as a 1200 Kombi....

That will be there undoing.They are very slow,have no wheel travel and are too complicated for the job.It won't take long for the maitenance crews to start bitching about niggling faults once moisture gets into them.Anyone can fix a perentie,the G's need a technition. Pat

LR V8
21st April 2009, 03:58 PM
sorta related.... maybe silly question....

can you push start an auto diesel ?

Pete

B92 8NW
21st April 2009, 04:07 PM
sorta related.... maybe silly question....

can you push start an auto diesel ?

Pete

Depends on the type of autobox. Funnily enough if its a Mercedes diesel auto, like the one in my sig, yes. Full instructions are given in the manual.

Tdi auto Disco? no. No output shaft driven pump.

LR V8
21st April 2009, 04:15 PM
well that's a relief... thanks mate

Pete

medic455
21st April 2009, 10:21 PM
sorta related.... maybe silly question....

can you push start an auto diesel ?

Pete

.....with a TANK.......:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :woot: :woot:

jerryd
21st April 2009, 11:25 PM
I remember reading an article a month or so ago, that said the Australian Army were going to rebuild all their Landrover vehicles and run them for another twenty years.

This was because Mercedes vehicles didn't meet the requirements of the army. I'll have to try and find the article

3toes
22nd April 2009, 03:39 AM
Why would you attempt to push start an auto? You just reach in with a large insulated screw driver and short across the starter motor contacts. There is enough charge in there to turn the motor over and start it. Have done this a few times over the years on both Fords and Holdens. Sure beats pushing it.

zulu Delta 534
22nd April 2009, 06:56 AM
The G Wagen isnt actually a Mercedes product, but rather a Mercedes backed Steyr product. A relation of the Haflinger and Pinzgauer so to speak. They are in common usage throughout many armies in the manual configuration, but I believe that the only country to use them as automatics happens to be our next door neighbours, New Zealand. They have reportedly had massive problems with the auto version, not because of the auto itself, but because they are the only NATO country to use them hence there is no parts availability back up. This is pretty important to a military body.
I seem to recall some vague rumours of the NZ purchasing 'Head Honcho' leaving NZ and coming to Aus, but I dont know enough about this to go much deeper, but all the little facts joined together make for a much more 'sus' larger picture.
Perhaps we should simply wait and see.
Regards
Glen

cucinadio
22nd April 2009, 07:10 AM
The G Wagen isnt actually a Mercedes product, but rather a Mercedes backed Steyr product. A relation of the Haflinger and Pinzgauer so to speak. They are in common usage throughout many armies in the manual configuration, but I believe that the only country to use them as automatics happens to be our next door neighbours, New Zealand. They have reportedly had massive problems with the auto version, not because of the auto itself, but because they are the only NATO country to use them hence there is no parts availability back up. This is pretty important to a military body.
I seem to recall some vague rumours of the NZ purchasing 'Head Honcho' leaving NZ and coming to Aus, but I dont know enough about this to go much deeper, but all the little facts joined together make for a much more 'sus' larger picture.
Perhaps we should simply wait and see.
Regards
Glen



yhea, but it's making for bloody good conversation.....:D

cheers

malsgoing130
22nd April 2009, 10:27 AM
I've always wanted a G wagon, lots of standard diff locks etc and a pretty simple vehicle. That was then 15-20 years ago. Now? too many electronic gizmos on the motor gear box etc, hope they supply 5 litres of petrol and a box of matches with them so that our troops can set them on fire when they fail :twisted::p
Fenders of any sort can be field stripped bits replaced and got moving really fast. Even I with no real machanical expertise have managed to strip the gear box and trans case off the vehicle and get it back together in 4 hours by my self.
Being from Africa and knowing how military supply deals are done there, I hope no one received a little brown envelope with a christmas bonus to get the deal thru :angel: Any how good to see our tax money hard at work.

i also seem to recall Tata having done a deal with the indian Millitary for 3000+ vehicles, dont think they are too fussed about a complicated 1200 vehicle deal.
Mal

PAT303
22nd April 2009, 11:08 AM
You have hit the nail on the head. Pat

Blknight.aus
22nd April 2009, 04:51 PM
the latest info (and this is some months old now)

yes the landrover has yet another life of type extension. AFAIK its end date is now 2025. The OTRL has been extended the replacement is allegedly going to start phasing in in 2015 as complete unit roll overs, as a unit gets its (whatever they gets) their landies will be removed (I think there will be some overlap to cover training)

The reasons I have heard.

1. mercedes doesnt want to get stung like LR did with the perenties
2. The G wagon is not cutting the mustard in all the fields (they do some things better than the Perentie some things worse)
3. What the ADF wants and what mercedes wants to provide for the price Aint the same beasty.
4. Mercedes cant make the delivery numbers in the time frame.
5. Mercedes wont standardise in the way that the ADF wants them to
6. Mercedes is baulking at the hidden costs of delivering on the contract.


all of those points are the rumor control that I keep hearing. My money says that 1,2 and 5 are the big killers.

scarry
22nd April 2009, 04:58 PM
Maybe it will end up like the submarine contract,one big expensive mess,but you would think they would learn from their mistakes.......hopefully!

PAT303
22nd April 2009, 05:22 PM
Just buy Wolfs and change them every 3 years. Pat

Ralph1Malph
22nd April 2009, 06:41 PM
I've always wanted a G wagon, lots of standard diff locks etc and a pretty simple vehicle. That was then 15-20 years ago. Now? too many electronic gizmos on the motor gear box etc, hope they supply 5 litres of petrol and a box of matches with them so that our troops can set them on fire when they fail :twisted::p
Fenders of any sort can be field stripped bits replaced and got moving really fast. Even I with no real machanical expertise have managed to strip the gear box and trans case off the vehicle and get it back together in 4 hours by my self.
Being from Africa and knowing how military supply deals are done there, I hope no one received a little brown envelope with a christmas bonus to get the deal thru :angel: Any how good to see our tax money hard at work.

i also seem to recall Tata having done a deal with the indian Millitary for 3000+ vehicles, dont think they are too fussed about a complicated 1200 vehicle deal.
Mal

Times have changed and we can not revisit the past!
Yes, they are complicated BUT they are heaps more reliable. This is where the fancy maths are done....believe it or not, an infrequent major breakdown is far more preferable to frequent minor ones.
Trust me, we are sick of our 20+ year old fenders breaking down with niggly poxy failures:mad:. Why is is that ford can now offer 60, 80 even 100 thou km warranties, when they didn't when I bought my first XD? I remember spending most w/e working on my HQ but hardly ever lift the bonnet on my present car? (D2 excepted:p).
Defence now spends a huge amount of money and effort on proving and documenting reliability and holding manufacturers to it! This just might be one of points raised by Blknight;).
Similarly, we spend a lot of time developing maintainability metrics in conjunction. For example, if a component is time consuming to fix, hard or expensive to diagnose or a PITA to work on, we will insist that it is wholly replaceable within a short timeframe with basic tools. It's public record that the bushmaster power pack (engine, trans complete) is swappable in less time than your lunchbreak.

Yes you have to be a technician now, but you also need far less of them and see them far fewer times. Believe me, thats a good thing as they are a special breed!:twisted::twisted:

Ralph

Blknight.aus
22nd April 2009, 07:00 PM
you must take a bloodly long lunch break....

book time is 4 man hours for a pack change.

with 5 blokes and a dead eye crane operator Ive seen it done in 45 minutes.

the amberly record for a drive in drive out major service including pulling the pack/trans, doing the valves, drain/replace all oil/filters, full grease up, batteries out and load tested and re-installed. is just over 3 hours with 3 greasers spinning spanners and a crane operator.

Ralph1Malph
22nd April 2009, 07:39 PM
you must take a bloodly long lunch break....

book time is 4 man hours for a pack change.

with 5 blokes and a dead eye crane operator Ive seen it done in 45 minutes..

Spot on!
We turned 'em over in the Middle East in around 1hr give or take, providing the qd's gave us no troubles!:eek: And that was using a HRV crane, no gantry!

That being said, we didn't do many which kinda reinforces my argument! Lots of oil sampling and temperature measuring. :)

Cheers
Ralph

Blknight.aus
22nd April 2009, 08:54 PM
You aren't biased though, are you Dave ?? :angel:

What is the latest inside skinny ?

I know that the bias question was ment to be in jest but...

the reason why its not going well is that the rover fleet is aging and its already maligned enough by just about everyone without having to deal with whats going to come up now that its already past its designed life and is going to have to be nursed along for another 10 years.

and we're going to wind up with users who will deliberately thrash them to break them to try and get them gone so they can have the newest toy to play with...

we're already getting chassis and bulkhead cracks and not just in the ones that have been consistantly overloaded.

PAT303
22nd April 2009, 09:56 PM
Thats a good point,I have seen it many times over the years,people wrecking machinery so that they get the newer gear.I doesn't matter what you get,the grass is always greener elsewhere and the people that use them don't own them,don't pay for them so don't care about them.With mine machinery,more and more of it is fitted with controls that stop any type of abuse such as not selecting a gear with the revs above idle,not selecting a forward gear while the wheels are turning backwards and vise versa and speed limiters and over rev cut-outs.The new G's won't be any better than the 110 and Merc will but heads with the ADF over damage from abuse. Pat

cucinadio
22nd April 2009, 09:59 PM
l guess we will just have to wait for the white paper to come out hey ...

cheers

LOVEMYRANGIE
22nd April 2009, 10:11 PM
As I now work for Diesel Motors CV(Mercedes Benz) here in W of A, we should be seeing some of them thru the yard for pre delivery. No one is sure yet what capacity they will be built to yet when they hit our workshops, but will take some pics when it all goes ahead.
Will be interesting to say the least.

The one good thing with the change is that theres going to be a few ex military Landies up for grabs! :D

Bad thing is that there wont be any more after them :(

medic455
23rd April 2009, 08:11 AM
I know that the bias question was ment to be in jest but...

the reason why its not going well is that the rover fleet is aging and its already maligned enough by just about everyone without having to deal with whats going to come up now that its already past its designed life and is going to have to be nursed along for another 10 years.

and we're going to wind up with users who will deliberately thrash them to break them to try and get them gone so they can have the newest toy to play with...

we're already getting chassis and bulkhead cracks and not just in the ones that have been consistantly overloaded.

Yep............:mad: the "Drive it like you just stole it" outlook is alive and well out there.(and I hate it, Every time I go back to work after RDO'S there are vehicles that need to be put of the road with un-reported problems caused by user indifference) and the standard answer always seems to be "It's not mine so who cares"