Electric Brakes and Mud

[Ainsley]

Dear All, thought I'd share a recent experience for your potential benefit.
The electric brake on my 2008 D3 began screaming and would not unlock. Next day managed to get it to unlock, took it to the Darwin LR service guys and they nodded wisely at me and said LR had recently brought out an alert for them to tell them this was a reasonably common fault, and after they adjusted a few things gave it back 'fixed'.
Without the long story - it was not fixed, which I discovered the next morning when the fault re-occured. Unfortuntaley, beinga Saturday, the service department was not open, and I was due to drive to Alice Springs that afternoon. So, when the brake eventually un-locked, I left it unlocked and drove South using chocks until I could get it into the Sutton Motors in Alice Springs, who are LR dealers, and who turn out to have a lot more knowledge about them than the guys in Darwin.
There is a fault in the electric brake which you would normally only expect to see at about the 60,000km point, not the 12,000km point I am at now. The root cause of my problem was the amount of mud we have around Darwin, which gets up into the brake calipers and clogs it all up. The electric brake can't force the calipers to move in all the mud and gunk, hence the screaming noise and the locking on. Took an hour to pull everything apart (many thanks top the guys in Alice Springs, as I didn't need the stress of a locking hand-brake right at the start of my holiday to visit Uluru and Kings Canyon), and then he had to readjust the brake cables etc and I was good to go again.
Hence, for those unfortunate enough not to have experienced too much rain and mud yet (stand-fast the poor guys on the East Coast who recently got way too much), if you have been driving in mud and the hand-brake screams as you try to unlock it ,and it takes you ages to actually get it unloicked, ask the service guys to look at pulling the unit apart to clean out the mud - my unit was apparently full of it.
Hope that helps some of you out there. I'll pass on my info to the guys in the service department too, for the locals here in Darwin.
15115

[WhiteD3]

It's happened to me a number of times and has either rectified itself within an hour or so or I've had it into LR for them to clean it, at no cost I might add.:)

[PhilipA]

Great design for an off road vehicle.
You would think they would have picked that up in muddy old England.

Ah well I will just have to soldier on with my 93 RRC handbrake which works perfectly without being adjusted for 9.5 years.

BUT I do have to pull it on manually with great personal effort.

Regards Philip A

[djambalawa]

seems to be a very common problem - was just reading some of DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Electronic Park Brake - Fit for Purpose? (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic14861.html)

bit of a worry... I'll have a d3 in Darwin too soon... hopefully I won't have to worry about that problem! :eek:

Anyone know the CEO of Tata? He needs to read that forum.. :o lol...

[Forest]

You just learn to not use the handbrake when off road. Once u change this habit u will be better off.

If handbrake does lock on, there is a manual override that will unlock the handbrake. No need to get stuck!

[Jamo]

Not sure about the km thing. It can happen at any time in the car's life.

It's annoying, but it's not too hard a job to clean shoes and drums out yourself.

[schmoogene]

thanks ainsley...someone has to school Darwin Mitsubishi. i'm dreading the day it has to go in....might try and find an independant.

so yes we here in Darwin love rolling in mud so, i've been looking at the cleaning of the drums. what's involved? i don't usually like tinkering with brakes.

[amaruskanic]

On the D2 the handbrake actually worked on the transmission shaft. Is this the case still on the D3? Just wondering where the mud is actually accumulating to cause the issue in case I need to clean it someday.
Andrew

[ozscott]

It seems that these D3 electric breaks (pun intended) are starting to show up as being a pain in the backside. Why the hell cant manufacturers add the tech that works and actually adds to the driving experience and leave out the toys that dont?

Cheers

[stig0000]

its not hard to pull the rotors off to get to the park brake, its just that there is a proses to put them back on agen an set them back, im shour there is a thread on here telling you how to do it, but if you realy like i could pm it to you,

[Jamo]

On the D2 the handbrake actually worked on the transmission shaft. Is this the case still on the D3? Just wondering where the mud is actually accumulating to cause the issue in case I need to clean it someday.
Andrew

On the D3 the EPB activates a set of drum brakes inside the rear disks. The brakes can be adjusted without removing the rear disks, but not cleaned. To clean it's off with the wheels and the off with the disks.

Mud can get inside causing the system to get out of adjustment.

As an aside: If you're doing more than 10kmh when you activate the EPB, the abs module tells the system to apply force to all four disks, thus changing from a park brake to an emergency stopping brake. If the disks fail, then the systmen will apply the drum brakes but at a controlled rate.

[PCH]

I've had EPB problems (all the bongs and messages) and I have no confidence that it can be fixed and made reliable. I rarely use the EPB around town and just leave it in Park unless I'm parked on a slope when I will use the EPB. When off-roading how can you safely not use the EPB? I would never get out of the D3 on a steep slope with it left only in Park. This is when you really need the EPB to work :mad: .

I wish the D4 comes out with a more relaible system. A simple mechanical sounds good to me.

Chris

[Bigbjorn]

Try parking brake Mark 1. Usually available at no cost from construction sites.

[ozscott]

Are you talking about the wife or a lump of 3x2

[Bigbjorn]

I was thinking of a house brick.

[garryc]

On the D3 the EPB activates a set of drum brakes inside the rear disks. The brakes can be adjusted without removing the rear disks, but not cleaned. To clean it's off with the wheels and the off with the disks.

Mud can get inside causing the system to get out of adjustment.

As an aside: If you're doing more than 10kmh when you activate the EPB, the abs module tells the system to apply force to all four disks, thus changing from a park brake to an emergency stopping brake. If the disks fail, then the systmen will apply the drum brakes but at a controlled rate.
Jamo got it right :) The gearbox that tensions the cables to the EPB drum brakes has a tension sensor or travel sensor. If mud or sand get in between the brake shoes and the drum the gearbox tries more tension and the override clutch screams. This highly technical setup allows the EPB to apply more tension so that if it is applied and the car still moves it can apply more tension to the brakes :D clever but not too good out bush. I have cleaned and adjusted mine twice, once with mud and then with sand :( With the sand the EPB brakes jammed on solid and would not release. The trick was to turn off the ignition and back on and then reverse slowly and apply the EPB. After a couple of goes it cleared the jammed brakes but the clean and adjust was still needed because of the screaming clutch :angrylock: But the EPB is great on hillstarts fully laden :D

[garryc]

It's happened to me a number of times and has either rectified itself within an hour or so or I've had it into LR for them to clean it, at no cost I might add.:)
Just remembered that a member in our club with a RRSport says that he gets the orange EPB light on when travelling on dirt roads. He uses a high pressure sprayer to clean the EPB brake area and that seems to fix it ;) Maybe that would work for cleaning out the mud without a dismantle :confused: but be careful with the high pressure sprayer around brake hoses and tyre sidewalls :)

[kiewacat]

My 6 month D3 came up with an EPB error message a few weeks ago, and shut the engine off as I was towing. Taken back to the dealer, who told me I was making it up, and I had just ran of diesel (tank was 2/3 full, and I suspect siphoned off at their dealership overnight). So last weekend, EPB fault almost caused car to catch on fire. Red hot, lots of heat damage. No error messages this time, and no clue there was a problem except for a momentary vibration from the right side of the car. Thank god I pulled into a truck stop. How do I trust the car again? Stranded towing horses, twice in 5 weeks.

[kiewacat]

Really useful info - thanks. But has anyone else had their EPB come on for no reason whilst driving? I've been towed off twice for this in five weeks, and only have done 22k on the vehicle. It sounds like mostly the fault is happening when the EPB has been applied, and then won't disengage?

[Dingmark Jim]

In Jan '08 family and I were driving the muddy road between Bourke and Wilcannia along side the Darling river (it had just opened after being flooded for the first time in about 7 years). Right rear parking brake dragged but it was masked by the wonderful stability control and the fact that the road was slippery. Not only did it get the brake drum red hot, but it melted the tyre sidewall and started the brake lines and rubber parts of the fuel fill line (on a petrol V8:eek:) smouldering. Some of the steel park brake parts were partially melted. Details and pictures are on the Disco3.co.uk site. On the positive side, there was a very long tow back to Dubbo, free hotel and rental car paid by Landrover Assist. Took the dealer there about 3 months to get a new back axle, replacement fuel line bits, etc back together. Got a new tyre out of it too but had to pay flights back and forth to home (Perth - each flight about the cost of a new 19" tyre). The best news out of this is there has been absolutely no problem with the park brake since despite thick salty mud flat packing the back end full, lots of sand, and other fun contaminants.

[CaverD3]

Never had a problem with mine. :D
My light came on once after a very deep river crossing but that was along with engine fault and transmission lights. :angel:
Mud or fine sand is the issue. Use as little as possible when off road.