wondering defender

[stig0000]

hey all,, im all out of idears, my mate has a defender 04 like mine an after we went 4wding, his car wonders realy bad at highway speeds, its allover the place, if your not paying attention you will end up in the next lane,:(:(, he has jiven it to me for a colpe of days to sort it out an iv had a look at all the balljoints an ther fine, he also has had a wheel alingnment if that would fix it,

it dident, so iv tightend up his steering box an thats now perfict, but it still wonders realy bad??

any idears what it could be?

[justinc]

Is it steering from the rear?
I have had several later 110's with loose upper A frame bracket bolts and even 1 with lower trailing arm bolts loose. Never been tightenend since manufacture and missed the PD, as some had REALLY flogged bushes and couldn't be tightened enough:mad:
Another culprit is the panhard rod bushes, I bet those are loose aswell...

JC

[stig0000]

Is it steering from the rear?
I have had several later 110's with loose upper A frame bracket bolts and even 1 with lower trailing arm bolts loose. Never been tightenend since manufacture and missed the PD, as some had REALLY flogged bushes and couldn't be tightened enough:mad:
Another culprit is the panhard rod bushes, I bet those are loose aswell...

JC
yer thanks mate, he has had the A frame bushes replaced an the balljoint replaced about 15000km ago, along with a panhard rod;);), but it has happend very fast, only since 4wding, an its defenetly coming from the front end,

[Blknight.aus]

assuming its properly aligned, its got decent and correctly inflated tyres and the swiv pins are correctly set.

its the suspension bushes or the panhard rod bushes.

***on the edit***

if hes bumped it onto something like a tree stump he may have punched the radius arm bush at the chassis.

[stig0000]

assuming its properly aligned, its got decent and correctly inflated tyres and the swiv pins are correctly set.
.

thats exacaly what it feels like, running with very low almost flat tyres, but they are set right, idk tho about the swivel pins;), how do you cheak them;)

[justinc]

yer thanks mate, he has had the A frame bushes replaced an the balljoint replaced about 15000km ago, along with a panhard rod;);), but it has happend very fast, only since 4wding, an its defenetly coming from the front end,

15,000km? Definately time to recheck the bolts. TIGHT, TIGHT, TIGHT.
Also, I forgot to mention the steering column unis, is there excessive play in the steering aswell at rest?

JC

[Blknight.aus]

jack it up and give it the rim rock test as if you were doing a bearing play check.

IF thats all good jack the wheels up and drop the rods off the arms and try to turn the wheel if they dont twist smoothly and evenly then the preloads out.

tho Id consider it odd to find the swivs out on something thats only of 04 vintage unless its been fairly well abused or used on lots of corrugations.

my moneys on a collapsed bush somewhere..

as a side,


is it lifted?

[shano79]

I would also be checking to see if the track and steering rods havent been damaged. On military vehicles this is a very common and a small bend can be cause similar problems.

[stig0000]

assuming its properly aligned, its got decent and correctly inflated tyres and the swiv pins are correctly set.

its the suspension bushes or the panhard rod bushes.

***on the edit***

if hes bumped it onto something like a tree stump he may have punched the radius arm bush at the chassis.

no i was with him the hole time, an it wasent very hard stuff we were on, there was one bit that was rutted an you had to hit it sorta hard cos the diffs were touching, it was all soft mud tho so nothing hard we hit,

no its not lifted, it has never done this befor an has come all of a suden,, its been uesd but not abused,,

[JDNSW]

As above plus a couple of extra points.

It will be something allowing the wheels to move independently from the steering wheel, or possibly a bent tie rod. Things to check:-

1. tie rod ends - no play on any, including on the pitman arm.
2. Panhard rod - use a lever to try and move them or watch them while steering is moved with the wheels on the ground and engine running. Bolts should be tight, clamping the centre tube. Check the mounting brackets are not cracked
3. Steering box secure. Check all bolts.
4. Pitman arm secure on pitman shaft.
5. No free play between steering wheel and box.
6. Front radius arms. Check for free play on axle bushes with a lever. Ensure bolts are tightand brackets not cracked. Check free play on chassis mounts using a lever. Check for cracks on the outrigger, and ensure the nut is tight.
7. Swivels. Jack both front wheels off the ground and put on axle stands. With brakes held on by a helper, check for any vertical play. If there is any at all, swivels need attention. While doing this, sideways play will check tie rod ends and pitman and steering box mounts, possibly even panhard rod problems. Any increase in free play when brakes are released indicates a wheel bearing problem. While you are at it check for loose wheels or cracked wheels, and also look at the possibility of a fractured tyre carcass. The actual swivel preload is checked by disconnecting the tie rod and drag link, and checking that the swivels turn smoothly and with steady resistance. Should need about 15lbs pull on the tie rod eye to move them with the seals installed - if it is something like that this is not the problem. If it just flops as soon as the tie rod and drag link are off, you need to adjust the preload, even if it is not the only problem.
8. Axle housing. Inspect for being bent or cracked or loose or broken bolts attaching the swivels.
9. rear axle. Check lower links both ends for worn bushes or loose bolts or cracked brackets. Use a lever or have the vehicle rocked back and forth with the handbrake on, looking for movement. Most likely problem is the rear end of the lower link onto the axle.
10. A-frame. Check ball joint and bushes, again, looking for movement with a crow bar.

The problem could be any of the above, or a combination of several of them.

John

[stig0000]

thats a great list,, thanks heaps,, il start at the top an go from there, im hopeing its just a loose bolt, an a easy fix

[harro]

Damaged steering damper?

[JDNSW]

Damaged steering damper?

If a damaged steering damper caused wandering, it would be because it was covering up another fault before it was damaged. The steering damper is intended to reduce steering kickback when a wheel hits a bump. Defenders do not rely on it for anything else, with primary damping at the swivels.

John

[harro]

If a damaged steering damper caused wandering, it would be because it was covering up another fault before it was damaged. The steering damper is intended to reduce steering kickback when a wheel hits a bump. Defenders do not rely on it for anything else, with primary damping at the swivels.

John

Good points John but speaking from experience if the operation of the damper is resticted by damage as in bent or the sleeve damaged or somthing caught between the sleeves this will restrict the steering from self centering and the vehicle will tend to wander.

Cheers.

[rick130]

no i was with him the hole time, an it wasent very hard stuff we were on, there was one bit that was rutted an you had to hit it sorta hard cos the diffs were touching, it was all soft mud tho so nothing hard we hit,

no its not lifted, it has never done this befor an has come all of a suden,, its been uesd but not abused,,

I know you've said it's been wheel aligned since, but the stock tie rod and drag links are about as strong as a piece of spaghetti and one bump off-road and they bend, giving chronic amounts of toe out which makes any vehicle wander and follow all the little undulations and camber changes on the road.

[JDNSW]

Good points John but speaking from experience if the operation of the damper is resticted by damage as in bent or the sleeve damaged or somthing caught between the sleeves this will restrict the steering from self centering and the vehicle will tend to wander.

Cheers.

Yes. I admit I had not thought of damage that restricted movement.

John