Prospective Defender buyer - Wisdom Required

[Penft]

I am trying to work out the best defender for me. I live in Canberra and often head into the Brindabella’s and down the South Coast on weekend trips away. I plan to head to the Cape this time next year and will be doing longer trips (eg, across the centre, Birdsville track….) on an annual basis.

I am torn between a second hand TD5 and a new Puma. I have done lots of reading on this, and other forums and both cars appear to have pros and cons. This forum offers access to both TD5 and Puma owners who use the defender for the same thing I’m planning too.

Based on your experience, or if you had your time over (assume limit of around 55k), would you purchase a new Puma adding bulbar, snorkel and roof rack etc over time, OR would you buy a second hand 2004 - 2006 TD5 with up to 100,000k’s (possibly already with bulbar, roof rack snorkel) and upgrade the ECU, add long range tanks, onboard water, cruise control, aftermarket spare wheel holder, maybe shelving system in rear…….etc.

As it is relevant, I will not be towing a caravan or camper.

Thanks in advance.

Tyler

[Chucaro]

Welcome Penft to the forum

Just in case that you are interested I spotted 2 new 2008 130 Defes in the Bundy dealer for less than $ 50000 with tray on the road :eek:
I am happy withg my Tdi300 but the 130 looks very nice :cool:
The Defenders are very capable machine from the box so do not rush in the add ons

Cheers

[dmdigital]

I have a 300Tdi and a Puma and I owned a Td5 Disco. The Puma is excellent and has a lot more get up and go than the Td5 in the Disco did. That said the Td5 wasn't bad either, but it does have turbo lag. I can't compare gearbox's because the Td5 D2 was an Auto for starters and secondly even a manual D2 is a different beast to a Defender. I will say the more I use the Puma off road the more I like the gearing rations over the Tdi.

Have you driven either? That would be a good start.

Personally I like my Puma for a number of reasons and I'd buy one again, but the Tdi has more "character".

[SVX37]

Hi Penft,

I pick up my new Puma tomorrow! 1 more sleep! I too like DM TD5 also owned an auto D2 TD5. I loved the thing but agree the turbo lag was a downfall. In my test drives, I too like the 6 gears to give a more even spread for off road work and highway cruising. I am not trying to sit on the fence here, or try to be biased either, cause ultimately it is your decision to make and be happy with. Look at it this way - either way you will own a Deefer which is a very special 4WD. There is some real bargains to be had from dealers at the moment for stock in showrooms (not as good a deal if they have to order one in for you). My decision would be to buy a new or near new Puma for the money you have budgeted. But if you decide the other way, you will still have a very capable 4WD. Have fun!

[Penft]

Thanks for the responses

Thanks for your thoughts dm_TD5. I have not taken any Defenders for a drive yet, however I did drive a friends D2 TD5 with a manual box about 18 months ago so I understand what you are saying about the turbo lag. I plan on taking both the TD5 and a Puma for a spin before I take the plunge however you can only experience so much during a test drive and you seldom gain an appreciation for what its like to live with a vehicle day in and day out. One of the wonderful things about this forum, I can learn from others experiences and/or mistakes.

SVX 37, as you have pointed out there are some good deals kicking around at the moment that gets the old grey matter going (none in Canberra mind). I need to stay grounded and consider all my options and not rush into the purchasing the wrong vehicle for the moment.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Well here's my take one it...

Drive them both and then see what you think.

A few thoughts...
1. The Puma gearbox is better than the R380 and the gear ratios are better.
2. In standard form the TD5 engine is better they way it delivers the power / torque (aspecially when loaded).
3. The TD5 **may** be more reliable - contensious but I know quite a few people that have recurring problems.. Water getting into the fuel system is one.
4. The Dash - I like the Puma dash much more than the 2002 onward TD5, but the TD5 dash gives more opportunity for storing stuff.
5. Seats - The Puma ones are much better. Many however have no problems with the TD5 ones.


At the end of the day I suspect you wont go wrong with either and as with all used vehicles, pay more attention to the condition and previous use than to the engine variant.

Make sure you look past the cheap bling that people add onto vehicles to make them more appealing. The old addage of buying the best kit and doing it only once is never more true than with Land Rovers.

If you can find a TD5 for good money with proper quality kit on it thats been well looked after then that would probably get my vote, if not, then a standard Puma may be the way to go and you add the quality bits on as time goes by.

For the record, I drive a preparred 110 TD5 Double Cab (one of the last TD5's made).

Hope that helps.
Jon

[JLo]

Penft
Don't you hate having to make decisions like this! Adding to confusion is the advice from a bunch of people all with different opinions and ideas about what is better.

My 2 cents woth...
I went from a 200Tdi to a TD5 and the difference was, comparatively, astounding in engine performance, so I would expect that going from a TD5 to the Puma would be as different again. (Haven't driven one yet because I have to get back into the TD5 afterwards).

I believe the aircon in the Puma is better suited to our climes.

If you have a search around this site for threads on mods to ECU etc, you start to see that this leads to other reliability issues that don't arise if you leave it standard and you don't want these cropping up on trip.

I am happy with the TD5 performs fine as it is.

Cheers
JLo

[wally]

Tyler, I've had four 300 Tdi Defenders, a Td5 Defender and a Td5 Disco. I love Defenders and I simply wouldn't be without one. The Disco was nice to drive but it gave me heaps of trouble. I personally wouldn't have another Td5. I like Tdis and I'm sticking with them. If I had to choose between a Td5 and a Puma I'd go the Puma.
Great choice anyway. Whatever you get you're going to love it.

[scott oz]

I've had a TDI 200 Def and Disco and now have a TD5 Def.

I love the TD5 Def but if anything happens to it I'm going for a 300TDI Def like the simplicity of the motor and electronics.

Haven't driven a Puma but the TD5 is now a proven motor with the faults identified.

[JohnR]

My $0.02 worth. I have had both TD5 Defer and now a Puma. I have to say the TD5's have stood the test of time that we simply do not know about the Puma's yet. The TD5 used to really frustrate me with the turbo lag, I never chipped mine and I am guess that this would have removed this issue. The Puma on the other had is great out of the box, I am not concerned about mechanical issues with it as it is all covered un warrenty and we have extended ours for a further 4 years. LR have really been looking after us with this car and we are really happy with their attitude to any faults big or small.

The interior of the puma is light years ahead of the TD5 and should not over looked as this is where you spen most of your time and it has to be coomfy and ergonomic (I know strange word to use in regard to a Defender).

I think the bottom line is the TD5 is a great car but you would be buying a minimum 3 year old car with unknown history (no matter what the previous owner says) and it would not hold any warrenty's by now. The puma is also a great car and would come with warrenty and if you were to get a 09 model a lot of the faults that people have mentions are already ironed out.

Your choice dude but which ever way you go you are buying a ledgend!

Cheers,

[tempestv8]

Might as well as add to this thread based on my viewpoint as a Discovery II V8 auto owner. :angel:

Today I got a chance to test drive a brand spanking new 2009 Defender 110. It had only 150 kms on the odometer when the keys were handed to me. With the 1/2 hour drive around the inner city area, I was able to make the following observations.

Firstly, the not so good bits:

1. Build quality very consistent with previous years Defenders, i.e. you can see daylight at the bottom corner of the front doors. Looking at the side mirrors, it looks like the 2nd row doors were not properly shut. But when I got out to slam the rear doors shut, they were already tightly shut! :D

2. Internal rear vision mirror vibrates and it's hard to see the traffic behind you. ;)

3. Airconditioning vents only from the center - there are no side vents near the doors. I use the vents to dry my sweaty palms and now I have to crossover my right hand to the other vent....:( A/C is noisy even with the minimum fan speed but there a lot of other noises anyway.... :p

4. Synchros are slow so a quick shift from 2nd to 3rd can create a slight feeling of tear crunch through the gear shift. :mad: I thought that the new 6 speed gearbox won't have the problems like the 5 speeders in the TD5, but I guess not.

5. Still noisy even though transmission tunnel is quieter than TD5 (due to use of steel instead of aluminium). A stone flicked up from a tyre onto the wheel arch and scared the crap out of me because I thought a rear window had broken, the clunk was so loud! :o

6. High general road noise levels make driving at 80 km/hr seem fast. :p I think on a long drive, this can cause accelerated driver fatigue. Hand me those Land Rover ear plugs please!

7. Clutch pedal slightly heavy but at least clutch action is progressive and easy to modulate. At least I'll get better calf muscles one day.

8. Front driveshaft now has a Double Cardan joint on the front driveshaft like Disco II. Bad bad bad. Just ask any well informed Discovery II long term owner why.

9. Hard to modulate the temperature control with the a/c temperature dial - turn it warm then it gets hot, turn it back to where it was, but it doesn't go back to the cool temperature it was at.... Very vague. Will drive any one batty if you are very particular about achieving a specific temperature.

10. If engine stalls, it's not possible to restart the engine just by turning the key from it's "ON" position to "crank" position - you need to turn it completely off first before it will allow you to crank the engine. So not so nice if you stall the engine right in the middle of the intersection and just try turning the key to "crank" to get engine restarted quickly. A stalled hill start is another scenario where one needs to restart the engine quickly (unless you don't mind unassisted brakes)


Then the good parts:

1. Airconditioning is nice and cold and not trying to freeze my kneecaps, like the TD5 ones do! Yay! :-)

2. There is a large tachometer - Yay! Even though my ears will tell me what revs the engine is doing, it's nice to have accurate information for smooth gear shifting purposes.

3. 2nd gear starts on the 6 speed gearbox are effortless. 1st gear handy for towing starts.

4. PUMA diesel is noticeably more refined than TD5, at idle, at full load, at all times, really. I reckon this motor will also be more reliable in the long term as there's no oil-in-loom issues to worry about, or loose oil pump bolt. :angel:

5. Ride quality superb for a vehicle with this much load carrying capacity. Probably even smoother with a load in the back.

6. Center cubby box is now fully lined so doesn't look like a plain timber box as in the TD5. Just feels more "finished" than before.

7. Excellent anti shunt control means blipping the throttle produces no driveline shunt. Good for drivers with lousy smooth driving technique, aka jerky right foot.

8. Impressive, almost ridiculously slow speed in 1st gear, low range (coming from an auto driver). Would make descents in steep conditions a breeze. Love it!!

9. Availability of 3rd row seats (not sure if this was previously available in the TD5). This can be very useful.

10. ECU is mounted on firewall, high up in engine bay. Much better than under the driver's seat in the TD5 where it can be flooded.

11. Wheel arch flares are now not colour coded - which is a good thing for me, although this may be one of those features that keep coming and going on Defenders. Some models in the past have painted flares, some do not. Don't know why there's this inconsistency.

12. Turbo lag, if present, is negligible. The vehicle will lug around in 4th gear at engine idle speeds and come up to normal cruising speed without complaining too much.


Summary:

Would I buy one? Probably not - I'd save my pennies for the D3. Sorry, Deefer fans! :twisted: I think I'm too used to having more comfort and refinement.

Cheers,

Lawrance

[clean32]

Get an ISUZU County for Say 10K spend 10K and you will have some thing worth leaving to your Kids

[dmdigital]

1. Build quality very consistent with previous years Defenders, i.e. you can see daylight at the bottom corner of the front doors. Looking at the side mirrors, it looks like the 2nd row doors were not properly shut. But when I got out to slam the rear doors shut, they were already tightly shut! :D
That will be a door alignment issue, mine are fine

3. Airconditioning vents only from the center - there are no side vents near the doors. I use the vents to dry my sweaty palms and now I have to crossover my right hand to the other vent....:( A/C is noisy even with the minimum fan speed but there a lot of other noises anyway.... :p
Good and bad here. Good is that there is a very low air flow movement with only A/C switched on and no main fan on. Great in a hot climate! There are also now side vents to the front windows, they work well

5. Still noisy even though transmission tunnel is quieter than TD5 (due to use of steel instead of aluminium). A stone flicked up from a tyre onto the wheel arch and scared the crap out of me because I thought a rear window had broken, the clunk was so loud! :o
I love watching people's reaction to stones hitting the rear guards. It sure gives you a fright if you don't know about it!


6. High general road noise levels make driving at 80 km/hr seem fast. :p I think on a long drive, this can cause accelerated driver fatigue. Hand me those Land Rover ear plugs please!
I don't believe it is any noisier than a D1 Tdi

8. Front driveshaft now has a Double Cardan joint on the front driveshaft like Disco II. Bad bad bad. Just ask any well informed Discovery II long term owner why.
If they do then this is something after mid 2008, because mine doesn't:confused:

9. Hard to modulate the temperature control with the a/c temperature dial - turn it warm then it gets hot, turn it back to where it was, but it doesn't go back to the cool temperature it was at.... Very vague. Will drive any one batty if you are very particular about achieving a specific temperature.
Three things I miss from the D2: Climate Control, Variable intermittent wipers and cruise control

11. Wheel arch flares are now not colour coded - which is a good thing for me, although this may be one of those features that keep coming and going on Defenders. Some models in the past have painted flares, some do not. Don't know why there's this inconsistency.
Bet you drove a White one, the other colours all have colour coded flares

Lawrance, you also need to play with the anti-stall, traction control and low-range 1. Next add 1.5 tonne of trailer behind it off-road and crawl through a washout using full articulation. Fantastic!

[tempestv8]

Hi Derek,

Yes, it was a white one. So I guess that explains why the flares are not coloured, yet other non-white ones that I've seen are body coloured. Thanks for clarifying this point.

I'll have to go and have a look at the front propshaft on that model that I drove. I may have been mistaken re the DC joint on the front propshaft. Which would be a good thing since it is a sore point with the Discovery II.

Will report back when I get a chance to consult the LR oracle that I know! :D

Lawrance

[Penft]

Thank you all for your input.

I’d be interested to learn if the defender Lawrence drove had a double Cardan joint (having just done a search of the forum you could even say that I’m very interested.)

A few people have suggested the 300, 200tdi’s and the Isuzu. To be 100% honest with you, if I were in this position 5 – 7 years ago, wouldn’t even hesitate – they would get my vote also. I guess I have reservations about the overall wear on all components and rust regarding the older fenders. No doubt I’m dismissing some that may even outlast my eventual purchase, but without intimately knowing the service history and the higher mileage, I feel it is more like a lottery.

There are plenty of threads on this site about 300, 200 and Isuzu v TD5, Puma. When I started looking at defenders I considered older models also, however at the end of the day I’m no mechanic so if anything goes really pear shaped, I wont be the one working on it so the simpler motor does me little favours (except maybe cost - although one needs to consider availability of parts for older examples in years to come – potentially at least). The older examples will work better for others, but not for me I believe.

ECU engines are here to stay (whatever make or model, 4WD, Wagon, Hatch back etc) and for me, with my limited mechanical experience, I may as well benefit from the improved performance engines with ECU offer. I also don’t believe it unreasonable to expect that with proper maintenance, I should receive largely trouble free 7 years / 150,000k service from a new Puma or 04-06 TD5...........

Am I being too optimistic????

[dmdigital]

No I think you have a fairly balanced view. Some wit will probably jump in about 7 years of trouble free motoring, but to date with 4 Rovers I have had very little issues. The only fault I had with my Td5 D2 was when the DC failed without notice at 125kph south of Alice - OK it wasn't a minor fault either:eek:

[tempestv8]

Hi Penft,

I've got my wires crossed - I thought I saw what looked like a DC but I was wrong - the Defender does not have a double cardan joint on the front propshaft, so it will not have any of the DC issues that Discovery II owners face. The negative about this is that a suspension lift of 2" could cause driveline vibrations to be introduced.

If I had to choose between a Puma motor vs a TD5, I'd pick Puma. Not because it is the "latest", therefore greatest, but because the TD5 will eventually suffer from the engine oil in wiring loom problem. I guess it isn't really that expensive to get it replaced, but I do like the driving characteristics of the Puma motor heaps better. The TD5 will easily stall when off boost, not to mention the poor location of the ECU, if you are one for deep river crossings.

Cheers,

Lawrance

[spudboy]

Hi Tyler,

Good first up question & welcome to the forum.

I'd lean towards the puma myself. It is a whole generation newer in terms of comforts and civilisation inside the cabin than a TD5. Quieter at 110Km/h, probably mainly due to the higher 6th gear. One thing I miss (which is pretty silly) is the opening vents at the front, as you can't just get fresh air coming in any more, you have to use the fan.

We have a TD5 130 and a Puma 110, and the missus prefers the Puma, due to it being more civilised and more like a normal car than the 130.

You could get a new Puma, bung on a bullbar and snorkel, and that would be about all the mods you'd require for a fantastic touring vehicle. No need to muck with the suspension or tyres or locking diffs. It goes brilliantly straight from the factory. You'd have 3 years warranty too.

That's my thoughts anyway - good luck. Nice dilemma to have really :)

Cheers
David

[jddisco200tdi]

Tyler,

You haven't said what your current vehicle is ? I think you have to drive a defender to really know whether you will be able to live with it day to day, and the Puma one is definitely quieter and more refined.

I changed from a 200 Tdi Disco to the puma defender and the 15 year old disco was quieter.

Regards

John D - Defender 110 2.4

[BilboBoggles]

I was perfectly happy with the TD5 Defender until I bought the PUMA. The difference in drivability between the two is great.

BUT - The TD5 is better off road - it has better articulation out of the box. The sway bars on the PUMA make it go round corners on rails, but don't help articulation, you also apparently cannot legally remove them.

In my experience some new defenders take a bit of sorting out before they are done, ie when you first get them they tend to need dealer intervention on various things if the first year or so. After that they tend to settle down. So if you get a "new" PUMA then you should bank on having to get things sorted out in the first year or so. (My PUMA has needed 3 diffs, and a complete body strip and rebuild). Whereas a "sorted" TD5 is likely to remain so for quite a while. (My TD5 also required 3 diffs, 2 gearbox rebuilds and a 2 week strip and rebuild of the body work in the first year or so, but is now chugging past 170,000ks)

So if you are not going to buy a PUMA then don't drive one. If you want a sorted vehicle then get a TD5 from a fussy owner.

[dullbird]

I was perfectly happy with the TD5 Defender until I bought the PUMA. The difference in drivability between the two is great.


BUT - The TD5 is better off road - it has better articulation out of the box. The sway bars on the PUMA make it go round corners on rails, but don't help articulation, you also apparently cannot legally remove them.

In my experience some new defenders take a bit of sorting out before they are done, ie when you first get them they tend to need dealer intervention on various things if the first year or so. After that they tend to settle down. So if you get a "new" PUMA then you should bank on having to get things sorted out in the first year or so. (My PUMA has needed 3 diffs, and a complete body strip and rebuild). Whereas a "sorted" TD5 is likely to remain so for quite a while. (My TD5 also required 3 diffs, 2 gearbox rebuilds and a 2 week strip and rebuild of the body work in the first year or so, but is now chugging past 170,000ks)

So if you are not going to buy a PUMA then don't drive one. If you want a sorted vehicle then get a TD5 from a fussy owner.

I think you will find its illegal to remove them of a td5 also..and a discovery;)

I would like to see a comparison between both vehicles that are stock....as on paper the puma should be better.

[tempestv8]

I wonder if the traction control on a PUMA is improved compared to the TD5 110. I didn't realise that the sway bars are thicker on the current model. This would indeed limit axle articulation more.

I also note that the rear wheel arches on PUMA are redesigned - maybe it's me, but it does look like there's less clearance on the PUMA model compared to the TD5. Anyone know for sure?

[dmdigital]

The TC is fantastic after the D2's. It really works well. Having not driven a Td5 Defender with a vengeance off road I don't know how it compares to its TC. The anti-stall in low first also is very good.

The wheel arches are redesigned for the 3rd row seats. Having compared them to my Tdi's there's not a lot of difference for wheel clearance. The two annoying things are the raised lock for the back seats and the indentation along the wheel arches in the storage area.

[Lightweight]

Interesting topic, and at the moment exactly the dilemma i find myself in. I owned a 300Tdi for nearly ten years, and was sad to let it go. Amazingly capable vehicle that took me a lot of places. I sold it and bought a TD5 D2, which I am just about to sell to get back into a Defender. I test drove a Puma with 10K's on the clock last week, nearly bought it on the spot, dealer didn't want to bargain...

I am still battling the same question... Do i buy a late model TD5... or get a new Puma. I wish there was an easy answer. I really like the idea of a few years warranty, the new motor etc, but there are a few well setup TD5's around that I know are very capable vehicles.

I was very surprised at the power of the Puma, it was very smooth from low revs and had plenty of pull right through the rev range, gear shifts where much smoother than the TDi and overall it felt a much tighter package.

[solmanic]

I look at it this way - between Canberra & the Cape there is a lot more highway than 4WD track to traverse. I had a Td5 before the Puma and would not, for an instant go back to a Td5 for highway cruising. Without any modifications the Puma is just that much smoother and quieter on the road. Also you can't beat the A/C setup in the Puma which would also be a welcome bonus when traveling up north, even in winter. IMHO to make a Td5 Defender as pleasant to drive on the highway you would need to spend serious money on sound proofing, ECU upgrade, overdrive gearing and aftermarket air - and you would then have quite a bitzer. And that's before you consider less important things like the random chaos that is the pre-07MY dashboard.

Off-road, I think they are just about equally matched. The Puma does have a far more aggressive anti-stall function than the Td5 which I love whilst some others are not so fussed about it.

The other thing you can't beat is the new car warranty and knowledge that every scratch and dent in your beloved Defender was put there by you.

[Penft]

Well John D (sigh) My current ride….. ride(s) to be more accurate are;

A 2008 SS-V Holden ute (for sale in the market section). I ride a Suzuki TLR1000 (my daily commuter) and 92 4.2 GQ Patrol (don’t judge me.)

The ute – hindsight is a wonderful thing – fun for a few months, sure. Would I buy another one – No. Awesome vehicle YES, just not for me.

The bike – well they are a bit like defenders, you either get, understand, and love them, or you don’t! - I’m never parting with my baby.

The Pootrol – it’s an honest vehicle. I’m not going to ‘bash’ it as that would be unfair. The non-turbo 4.2 (electric free) diesel has 335,000k on the clock and just keeps on plodding along without fuss or fault. It has a 4” lift and 33” tyres. (I will not be performing such drastic mods to the fender – don’t need too! I’m sure the stock defender is more capable then I).

The pootrol is very capable off road. The seats are very worn, uncomfortable and offer little support. (Less comfortable it would seem then the defenders I have sat in.) It doesn’t corner, brake, accelerate or change direction in a hurry. I also doesn’t keep up with traffic. Guess it’s a little like the TDI of the Nissan world – without the character or charm. Solid truck though.

When I bought the Pootrol I was looking at defenders but was scared away by ‘reliability woes.’ I made the same mistake many others do – listening to people who have never owned or driven one!!

Anyway, as they say – you live and you learn.

Good to hear about the DC. Thanks everyone. It is great to see people including the reasons, pros and cons, why they prefer one over the other, and I must say that I am encouraged that no one has said to avoid either at all costs!

Tyler

[dullbird]

I look at it this way - between Canberra & the Cape there is a lot more highway than 4WD track to traverse. I had a Td5 before the Puma and would not, for an instant go back to a Td5 for highway cruising. Without any modifications the Puma is just that much smoother and quieter on the road. Also you can't beat the A/C setup in the Puma which would also be a welcome bonus when traveling up north, even in winter. IMHO to make a Td5 Defender as pleasant to drive on the highway you would need to spend serious money on sound proofing, ECU upgrade, overdrive gearing and aftermarket air - and you would then have quite a bitzer. And that's before you consider less important things like the random chaos that is the pre-07MY dashboard.

Off-road, I think they are just about equally matched.
The Puma does have a far more aggressive anti-stall function than the Td5 which I love whilst some others are not so fussed about it.

The other thing you can't beat is the new car warranty and knowledge that every scratch and dent in your beloved Defender was put there by you.


Does the TD5 even have anti stall? judging by my own experience I would say no and if it does then it is bloddy crap...because most people I off road with have TD5's get them on a steep incline going slow they stall out all the time.

[dmdigital]

Lou, you are correct the Td5 doesn't have anti-stall. It's a function of the ECM which of course is different in the Puma to the Td5. They both share the same alarm and ABS systems. The Puma also has a basic BCU.

[BilboBoggles]

I think you will find its illegal to remove them of a td5 also..and a discovery;)

I would like to see a comparison between both vehicles that are stock....as on paper the puma should be better.


MY MY03 T5 Did not come with sway bars.

[spudboy]

Lou, you are correct the Td5 doesn't have anti-stall. It's a function of the ECM which of course is different in the Puma to the Td5. They both share the same alarm and ABS systems. The Puma also has a basic BCU.

I reckon the TD5 does have anti-stall in low ratio. My 130 will drive itself up reasonably steep slopes very happily on no throttle, but it is nowhere near as good/agressive as the Puma anti-stall.

[dullbird]

every landrover will do that to a degree!

its whether it will tackle an obsitcal in the middle which causes it to need that little bit extra opmh to get over without throttle.

But don't be fooled people you can stall the defender also! in low 1st.....but it takes a very steep incline to do so

[solmanic]

Does the TD5 even have anti stall?


Lou, you are correct the Td5 doesn't have anti-stall.

Now I thought the Td5 didn't have anti-stall but someone on here corrected me that it in fact does (albeit different to the Puma). You are right though, it is very weak compared to the Puma. There have been a lot of threads here and overseas where it is mentioned, for example here (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/53523-defender-td5-anti-stall-tc-action-vid.html) and here (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/56324-anti-stall-traction-control-defender.html).

[SVX37]

And that has really answered the original post - you've nailed it in one Solmanic!

[dullbird]

Now I thought the Td5 didn't have anti-stall but someone on here corrected me that it in fact does (albeit different to the Puma). You are right though, it is very weak compared to the Puma. There have been a lot of threads here and overseas where it is mentioned, for example here (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/53523-defender-td5-anti-stall-tc-action-vid.html) and here (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/56324-anti-stall-traction-control-defender.html).

I watched those video's and you know what my mate did exactly what that td5 did in a 300tdi except he was going up a very muddy hill he was determined to climb it on tick over it took him over 30mins (only a short hill) but he did it... now I know 300tdi's don't have anti stall;).

I'm sorry i'm not convinced if TD5's have anti stall how come I have witnessed them stalling A LOT.