Puma Part Concern

[Scallops]

Hello Folks,

Just thought I'd notify all Puma owners who are yet to experience the Brake Vacuum Pump breakdown....

There was a service technical bulletin update dated 21 April 2009 (listed in the Sticky on this page) - this lists a 2nd version of the modified Brake Vacuum Pump. Amazingly, Land Rover are fitting the old 1st revision part still, even though these are also failing (hence the 2nd revised part), until they use all the stock. :eek:

Apparently - there are about a dozen or so older replacement parts still in the country which are being fitted to Pumas in the meantime before they bother using the new part.

I find it extraordinary that Land Rover are fitting a part that has already become redundant - my original pump failed last week - after the 2nd tech bulletin, but I still have the dud replacement vac pump fitted. :mad:

This is the lowest I've ever seen a manufacturer of anything go. :mad: So now I run the risk of being stranded again because LRA can't be bothered/are too stingy/are plain incompetent/ to fit the right part until they've used their current stock - unbelievable. :mad:

If your Puma has this problem - it would possibly pay to put off getting it fixed until Land Rover can get the new part fitted - what a joke. :(

[Outlaw]

if a second recall has been issued i'd be booking it again (unfortunately) and having it replaced for the correct one!!! No time for being nice.

[Scallops]

if a second recall has been issued i'd be booking it again (unfortunately) and having it replaced for the correct one!!! No time for being nice.

This issue was never a recall though - they only replace them once they fail. I have asked for the new part once available but the dealer is not sure they can do so.

[weeds]

who need brakes anyway;)

[Blknight.aus]

its just the booster vac pump, the brakes still work fine, infact you will notice a big increase in pedal firmness when it totally fails.


of course the fact that it pours your engine oil out onto the fan belt doent help engine longevity....

Be very interesting to see what LR do when one totally fails and pumps all the engine oil out letting the engine sieze.

[scarry]

Now LR Aust deserves a letter about that!
Scallops,how can you tell one pump from the other?,if there is no part no. sticker on it.
I put the numbers off the pump on juniors Puma on your other post,do they mean anything?

Thanks...

[Scallops]

Now LR Aust deserves a letter about that!
Scallops,how can you tell one pump from the other?,if there is no part no. sticker on it.
I put the numbers off the pump on juniors Puma on your other post,do they mean anything?

Thanks...

The part numbers are on the Pump - on mine, these look permanent. Didn't see your part numbers, but if this helps....

The first replacement pump - which I've now got - LR012183
The new pump - which Puma owners will get once LRA have used all the dud ones listed above - LR014973.

I love my Fender but Land Rover is the worst company I have ever come across. :(

[solmanic]

A-ha... this explains the phone call I got today telling me that they had had to re-order my vacuum pump. At least now I know that the new pump will be the latest design since I am supposedly waiting for it to come from the UK. Having said that, I will double check when it goes in next week and tell them that if they are not fitting the latest one, I will take the car home again and just wait until the current one fails completely.

[solmanic]

Just a follow up to that last post - it may not necessarily be a deliberate thing on behalf of the dealer. The call I got today sounded like they didn't actually know until yesterday that the part number had changed. This just means they are slow on the uptake since we here are always looking out for this kind of information, but they only find out when someone higher up tells them...





....or then again, it could be deliberate in which case I know a guy who is "careless" with matches... :wasntme:

[Scallops]

Just a follow up to that last post - it may not necessarily be a deliberate thing on behalf of the dealer. The call I got today sounded like they didn't actually know until yesterday that the part number had changed.

That's just not true - I told them and asked for the new part - got the old part - and it's looking increasingly like I can't get it changed.

[solmanic]

They told me there was a new, new part they didn't know about so I assumed they knew about the first revision but not that it had been revised a second time.

[spudboy]

Is the brake vacuum pump breakdown thing a Km related issue, or corrugations etc, or it just goes? Mine seems OK after 18 months - no brake issues so far and no oil leaks.

[Scallops]

Is the brake vacuum pump breakdown thing a Km related issue, or corrugations etc, or it just goes? Mine seems OK after 18 months - no brake issues so far and no oil leaks.

David - there is no brake issue - even when/if it happens. You just loose engine oil - the actual pump still works.

It happens in dusty conditions - drive tail end Charlie behind half a dozen Land Rovers on a really fine grained dusty track for long enough and it will happen.

Carry a couple of litres of replacement engine oil and you're OK. Trick is to pick when it goes. I could smell the oil - and see it along the edge of the bonnet as little droplets when I stopped.

[Scallops]

They told me there was a new, new part they didn't know about so I assumed they knew about the first revision but not that it had been revised a second time.

That doesn't make sense :p :confused:

[Scallops]

As a follow up - my dealer has contacted me and offered this explanation...

The 2nd revised part is made by another manufacturer, hence the new part number. This 2nd revision is cheaper than the Wabco unit, which is why it is being used now.

The dealer rep went on to say that should an issue occur with my replacement down the line, even out of warranty, then it would be replaced.

If it is the case that this 2nd revised part has been issued for cost reasons only, then I am satisfied to have the part that has been fitted and I apologise for being critical of the support I received from Land Rover.

The dealer rep did say that there has been no issues with the many 1st revision replacement pumps (as fitted to my vehicle) they have fitted, so I will let this issue rest.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

As a follow up - my dealer has contacted me and offered this explanation...

The 2nd revised part is made by another manufacturer, hence the new part number. This 2nd revision is cheaper than the Wabco unit, which is why it is being used now.

The dealer rep went on to say that should an issue occur with my replacement down the line, even out of warranty, then it would be replaced.

If it is the case that this 2nd revised part has been issued for cost reasons only, then I am satisfied to have the part that has been fitted and I apologise for being critical of the support I received from Land Rover.

The dealer rep did say that there has been no issues with the many 1st revision replacement pumps (as fitted to my vehicle) they have fitted, so I will let this issue rest.
I think you would have an excellent case to have this part replaced again until at least 5 years old. Keep your docco!

[scarry]

The part numbers are on the Pump - on mine, these look permanent. Didn't see your part numbers, but if this helps....

The first replacement pump - which I've now got - LR012183
The new pump - which Puma owners will get once LRA have used all the dud ones listed above - LR014973.

I love my Fender but Land Rover is the worst company I have ever come across. :(
Had another look...

There is no LRO number on the pump....so who knows?,anyway will wait & see what happens.
It is on top of the water pump?,hope we are looking at the correct part:angel:

I have always found LR excellent at warranty repairs,no problems ,always very helpful.Its the quality of the workmanship from the workshop that i have found to be the worst i have ever seen.
The vacuum pump stuff up seems to be a bit strange.

Things will only get better,but it is frustrating:(

I found with the Disco's i bought new,once i got a few things sorted under warranty,& then got them serviced elsewhere,the problems seemed to dissapear:)

Funniest thing happened the other day the wife tried to move it,but couldnt find where the ignition keys go,so it stayed where it was:p:p:)

[Rugrat]

Is the brake vacuum pump breakdown thing a Km related issue, or corrugations etc, or it just goes? Mine seems OK after 18 months - no brake issues so far and no oil leaks.

The issue AFAIK is the seal goes. Mine went after 11 months - we were on the blacktop and hadnt been offroad for a few weeks. I think when I washed the engine that grit and stuff worked its way in and stuffed the seal. As Scallops said though - dusty conditions would (logic says) speed the process - yet I don't think dm_td5 has had the pleasure of the failure yet and he's up in the dusty NT :) I'd say I'd lost 500ml to 1 ltr in the time it took to travel 40kms. So a few 5trs of oils would get you home if you not stuck in woop-woop.

[dullbird]

The issue AFAIK is the seal goes. Mine went after 11 months - we were on the blacktop and hadnt been offroad for a few weeks. I think when I washed the engine that grit and stuff worked its way in and stuffed the seal. As Scallops said though - dusty conditions would (logic says) speed the process -
yet I don't think dm_td5 has had the pleasure of the failure yet and he's up in the dusty NT :) I'd say I'd lost 500ml to 1 ltr in the time it took to travel 40kms. So a few 5trs of oils would get you home if you not stuck in woop-woop.

We had had the car a year before visiting Derek and ours died on the return trip through a few dusty conditions Alice had a dust storm when we were there....might only be a coincidence though

[Scallops]

Had another look...

There is no LRO number on the pump....so who knows?,anyway will wait & see what happens.
It is on top of the water pump?,hope we are looking at the correct part:angel:

I have always found LR excellent at warranty repairs,no problems ,always very helpful.Its the quality of the workmanship from the workshop that i have found to be the worst i have ever seen.
The vacuum pump stuff up seems to be a bit strange.

Things will only get better,but it is frustrating:(

I found with the Disco's i bought new,once i got a few things sorted under warranty,& then got them serviced elsewhere,the problems seemed to dissapear:)

Funniest thing happened the other day the wife tried to move it,but couldnt find where the ignition keys go,so it stayed where it was:p:p:)

Mate, they all have the part number on top - its the brake vacuum pump, nothing to do with a water pump. The BVP is, looking from the front of the bonnet, on the RHS near the front at the top - Silver coloured and has Wabco written on it and made in England etc. There are several numbers on it - one starting with LR is the part number.

[Scallops]

The issue AFAIK is the seal goes. Mine went after 11 months - we were on the blacktop and hadnt been offroad for a few weeks. I think when I washed the engine that grit and stuff worked its way in and stuffed the seal. As Scallops said though - dusty conditions would (logic says) speed the process - yet I don't think dm_td5 has had the pleasure of the failure yet and he's up in the dusty NT :) I'd say I'd lost 500ml to 1 ltr in the time it took to travel 40kms. So a few 5trs of oils would get you home if you not stuck in woop-woop.

I drove around Australia and across both the Gibson and Simpson deserts, across the Savannah way and the Gibb River road etc and it didn't go. It's when you are driving in the dust cloud from a convoy of vehicles ahead that mine went. The track mine died on was super fine talc like dust and lots of it - it looked like we were driving through fog.

dm_TD5 can drive on dusty roads for years and not have the problem - drive behind 10 other vehicles in a dust cloud - different story.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I drove around Australia and across both the Gibson and Simpson deserts, across the Savannah way and the Gibb River road etc and it didn't go. It's when you are driving in the dust cloud from a convoy of vehicles ahead that mine went. The track mine died on was super fine talc like dust and lots of it - it looked like we were driving through fog.

dm_TD5 can drive on dusty roads for years and not have the problem - drive behind 10 other vehicles in a dust cloud - different story.

Interestingly I think that shows a bit of a hole in LR durability testing. You'd think they would have driven these things in convoys in dusty environments testing them. Maybe they didn't drive far enough?

[dullbird]

I drove around Australia and across both the Gibson and Simpson deserts, across the Savannah way and the Gibb River road etc and it didn't go. It's when you are driving in the dust cloud from a convoy of vehicles ahead that mine went. The track mine died on was super fine talc like dust and lots of it - it looked like we were driving through fog.


dm_TD5 can drive on dusty roads for years and not have the problem - drive behind 10 other vehicles in a dust cloud - different story.

They do have tarmac in gove you know:lol2:

[Rugrat]

It's when you are driving in the dust cloud from a convoy of vehicles ahead that mine went. The track mine died on was super fine talc like dust and lots of it - it looked like we were driving through fog.



That has hit it on the head - normally the fender is at the pointy end but I did do a couple of trips where we were TEC so drove in the clouds for a lot of the trip. That was the last time we went off-road before the leak occured....:o No more of that - the pointy parts more fun anyway.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

That has hit it on the head - normally the fender is at the pointy end but I did do a couple of trips where we were TEC so drove in the clouds for a lot of the trip. That was the last time we went off-road before the leak occured....:o No more of that - the pointy parts more fun anyway.
Only problem with that is that if you are travelling in a group convoy the positions should change about. it's not fair for one person to be TEC and live in all the dust for a whole trip just as it's not fair for one person so sit up the front for a whole trip.

Landrovers should be able to cope with convoy dust. :o

[JohnR]

How about that. I think we might have found a common cause!!! Mine went after driving in convoy all weekend at Sundown National Park in the dusk and not at the front. It chose to go just as we were leaving the park. WOW I think AULRO maybe should be put in charge of LR R&D?????

:)

Cheers,

[scarry]

How good are LR , Austal that is,spoke to the rep in the service section today & he said they have only ever changed one vacuum pump on a Puma ever.

If its not leaking,they wont change it,even if it is a known problem:(

[RMB3218]

I had the pump replaced 3 times. Each time I was told it was a "new" model

[dullbird]

I had the pump replaced 3 times. Each time I was told it was a "new" model

Probably was new just not revised:D

[JohnR]

How good are LR , Austal that is,spoke to the rep in the service section today & he said they have only ever changed one vacuum pump on a Puma ever.

If its not leaking,they wont change it,even if it is a known problem:(


If it was Southside LR then I know of at least 3 car that have had it done there! Who was it you spoke to there?

Cheers,

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I had the pump replaced 3 times. Each time I was told it was a "new" model

Next time they will give you something that looks like a bike pump and fit it to the passenger floor. They will tell you that if you have to stop quickly you should ask the passenger to pump the pedal. That's teamwork :)

[TimNZ]

Here is a history of the vac pump part numbers I found on another forum:

MY07 LR004380

MY08 LR006872

MY09 LR012183

My pump was replaced in January 09 when it failed with the MY09 type, even though I printed off the Technical Service Bulletin in December 08 and showing it to the Dealers. They told me, "oh don't worry about that, it's a very rare problem."

Cheers,

Tim

[Scallops]

Here is a history of the vac pump part numbers I found on another forum:

MY07 LR004380

MY08 LR006872

MY09 LR012183

My pump was replaced in January 09 when it failed with the MY09 type, even though I printed off the Technical Service Bulletin in December 08 and showing it to the Dealers. They told me, "oh don't worry about that, it's a very rare problem."

Cheers,

Tim


Thanks Tim - I've spoken further with my dealer and they have confirmed those part numbers too. They (nor I) have any record of the MY09 part failing. The latest TSB relating to a 4th part has come about as LR have changed their Brake Vacuum Pump part to a new manufacturer - for a cheaper pump. There is no technical issue with part MY09 LR012183 which I had fitted so I'm happy to have it fitted and, as I did before, I apologise for my earlier comments regarding LRA fitting these.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Those vacuum pumps really suck :eek: :D :wasntme:

[scarry]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://img42.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5170078.jpg)

This is the tag on the vacuum pump on juniors 09 fender,cant see an LR number on it anywhere,or for that matter anywhere else on the pump:confused:

[Scallops]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://img42.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5170078.jpg)

This is the tag on the vacuum pump on juniors 09 fender,cant see an LR number on it anywhere,or for that matter anywhere else on the pump:confused:

Well - I just went down to the carport with a torch, note book and pen - this is what is written on mine....

914 004 005 OXP 111
17C09
LR012183

So who knows? :confused:

[NQExplorers]

Preventative maintenance:

Sorry to bring this up again but I am the second owner of a (November) 2007 Puma - with the following vacuum pump fitted:

914 004 005 OXP
LR012183 31C09
Made in England

It appears from this thread that my vehicle has been updated with the 2009 Pump?

Cheers, Warren.

[Scallops]

Preventative maintenance:

Sorry to bring this up again but I am the second owner of a (November) 2007 Puma - with the following vacuum pump fitted:

914 004 005 OXP
LR012183 31C09
Made in England

It appears from this thread that my vehicle has been updated with the 2009 Pump?

Cheers, Warren.

Yep - you're all good.

[scarry]

If it was Southside LR then I know of at least 3 car that have had it done there! Who was it you spoke to there?

Cheers,

it was valley Austral

[scarry]

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3904/p5170078.jpg (http://img42.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5170078.jpg)

This is the tag on the vacuum pump on juniors 09 fender,cant see an LR number on it anywhere,or for that matter anywhere else on the pump:confused:

Well this has failed,so i wonder what Austral will replace it with?

Will post up details when it is back,also needs exhaust modified to stop bracket rubbing on tailshaft.

Don't we just love these Landy's:angel:

[nikojo]

I think there is now an even NEWER part number for the pump

LR014973

Can other confirm?!?!

Were there problems with the 3rd generation??

[CraigE]

This opens up a legal minefield. If they fitted a part that they know to be faulty and you injure yourself or someone else as a result all hell will break loose.

[PAT303]

^ what Craig said,I can't for the life of me see LR fitting known faulty brake parts to a vehicle.They could be sued to the point of no return,look what happened to Toyota in America,in the region of 3 billion US for thier brake,steering and fire issue's. Pat

[sashadidi]

I know the unofficial LR guys here have used ford parts(cheaper but identical) when these pumps were unavailable for people needing them over holidays etc

[newhue]

It could be a LR thing. I'm pretty sure Nugget has had his air con replaced a few times with the same crook part. Though his is a general warranty and not a recall item, LR told him they where no longer going to replace it as they had a lot of stock of the same bodge part. So it was looking like he was going to be left without aircon. Can't recall the outcome details, but his air con has been fixed and is working again for now.

the mind boggles