Warn Winches - 9.5XP, 9.5Ti or 9.5Si ???

[Yorkshire_Jon]

OK guys, whats your thoughts - Pro's / Cons / Experiences....

I plan to put 11mm Plasma on it, not steel and carry an extension in the car.

Also, bumpers - Will any of them fit on the ARB winch bumper?

The vehicle is an overlander, not a competion vehicle.

Regards,
Jon

[TimNZ]

I have a Warn 9.5xp on an ARB bumper, I'm very happy with the warn and have beed well impressed with its performance, Especially at pulling out Jap 4x4s!!

Here is my thread on fitting the bumper and winch:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/57967-fitting-arb-bar-warn-9-5xp-defender.html

Cheers,

Tim

[dmdigital]

Jon, there is also the Warn 9.5 XDC. Cheaper than the others and has the thermal cut out switch and solid state switch box. Better value than the XP.

They will all fit the ARB bar on a Defender, though I'm not 100% sure about the Si as I haven't looked at the spec's on that one.

I've got the XDC on the Puma with plasma rope and the Warn wireless remote.

[Psimpson7]

I have had a couple of XP's and rate them highly in the lowline winch ranges.

I swapped my front one for an 8274 but still have an XP on the rear.

Cant fault it really. XP motor is regarded as being the best off the shelf motor available as well.

only real downside is current draw.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Jon, there is also the Warn 9.5 XDC. Cheaper than the others and has the thermal cut out switch and solid state switch box. Better value than the XP.

They will all fit the ARB bar on a Defender, though I'm not 100% sure about the Si as I haven't looked at the spec's on that one.

I've got the XDC on the Puma with plasma rope and the Warn wireless remote.

The XDC - Hadnt thought of that particularly... Whats the difference (appart from £££s between the XDC and Si?? They both look to have solid state solenoids but the XDC is an awful lot cheaper - reading the spec's there doesnt seem to be an appreciable difference appart from the housing over the top of the Si???

If the answer is nothing / not a lot, may look to the ARB bumper, XDC and warn wireless remote (I can get the wireless remote free, or at least very cheap if I buy a bumper and winch together)...

Is the XDC solenoid pack (or whatever the magic box of gubbins is) detachable from the winch, like the XP?

[leeds]

Hi Jon, just a few more things to think about. The Ti and Si have the 'solenoid' pack mounted above the winch and is non detachable. Personally I prefer the solenoid pack out of the way of too much water and dirt etc. Is there any detrimental effect of having the solenoid pack in front of the radiator on the cooling?? Also the pack above the winch makes the winch more obtrusive on the aesthetic front in my opinion.

Am thinking of installing a simple cover to the front winch to reduce effects of UV as my rope has become bleached. Also considering a cordura bag for the winch extension. Thinking as I type might play with the idea of a combined winch sail and bag for extension rope. When have some spare time might go and play with the sewing machine.

Wireless remote would be useful for solo travel

Regards


Brendan

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Hi Brendan,
Thats always been my issue with the 'i' series as well. I would prefer the solenoid (or WDC) equivalent out of sight.

Interesting point you raise about the cover / UV protection.

Re the wireless... My first thought was to have a forward/backward switch in the cab - then I saw the wireless price if I buy both a bumper and a winch together - hardly seems worth the effort of wiring the switch in!

[dmdigital]

Jon, the XDC solenoid pack is fully resin sealed and separate from the winch. If you look at any of the pic's of the front of my Puma you will see it. One of the lower priority things I need to do is move this inboard to the cavity behind the ARB badge on the bullbar bumper so its out of the way.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/11/667.jpg

[leeds]

Hi Jon, am considering in cab switches for both winches on the 110 when I get round to reorganising the cab probably with use of a mud console.

Would you need two wireless controls for a 2 winch set up? Only have a single isolation switch for both winches. Although tend to leave winches in free spool mode. Some of the wireless controls I have seen are rather small so am concerned about them getting misplaced/damaged on a long trip.

Other thoughts I have had was a long say 10/20 metre extension for standard winch control lead to enable ground anchor placement whilst travelling solo. No problem if you have a winch bitch/prentice with you though:p

Regards


Brendan

[dmdigital]

Brendan, the Warn remote synchronises with the remote's receiver unit. The receiver simply plugs in to the solenoid pack so if you were to wire the two winches from one pack then it would be feasible with a switch to which winch was active. The remote is bright orange and comes with a cradle which is a very positive fit. I'm still to put the remote on the dash it currently floats around in the cubby.

[dmdigital]

The XDC - Hadnt thought of that particularly... Whats the difference (appart from £££s between the XDC and Si?? They both look to have solid state solenoids but the XDC is an awful lot cheaper - reading the spec's there doesnt seem to be an appreciable difference appart from the housing over the top of the Si???

If the answer is nothing / not a lot, may look to the ARB bumper, XDC and warn wireless remote (I can get the wireless remote free, or at least very cheap if I buy a bumper and winch together)...

Is the XDC solenoid pack (or whatever the magic box of gubbins is) detachable from the winch, like the XP?
That's pretty much why I got the XDC - it was a lot cheaper and I couldn't see any difference to make me pay the extra for the others.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

My first thought about the wireless unit was "thats a good idea". Then I thought about loosing it / batteries going flat and thought that the switches on the dash would be a better idea.

I think to start with I'll just have the wireless, then see how I get on and perhaps when I get round to it but a 3 way rocker switch (ON/OFF/ON) in.

Will the wireless remote clip in place inside the centre cubby box?

Brendan,
I think that you'd probably be better off with 2 x 3 way rocker switches (ON/OFF/ON) in a mud console. Especially given that you need to re-do the electrics anyway.

Derek:
Why would you put the solenoid pack (is that whats its called for the XDC??) lower down, behind the bumper rather than higher up under the bonnet? Is the weatherproofing on it really that good? What about when it gets submerged? Any issues?

Only asking beasue that bumper and winch could well be the same configuration as I end up with.


Slightly different questions:
1. Ive been told that with the Warn winches there is no need to fit a dedicated isolater as they are activated via 3 pins on the remote, not 2, hence the old paper clip trick doesnt work. That said the isolator would protect from any winch / cable malfunction causing nasty fires! Whats the concensus? Isolate or not?
2. If the answer to above is to isolate... There must be a better method than to use those large switches that get in your way and have the potential to loose the key! Could the winch not be isolated with a heavy duty solenoid in the battery box and a nice, convenient, low current ON/OFF switch on the dash?

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Ok, done a bit more digging and found these specs:

Model: 9.5XP, 9.5Si, 9.5Ti, 9.5XDC
Motor Size (hp): 6, 4.6, 4.6, 4.6
Line Speed (m/min): 11.6, 18.9, 18.9, 8.8
Rope Length (m) x Dia(mm): 30x8, 38x8, 38x8, 30x8
Weight (kg): 43, 36.3, 46, 39.5

Im guessing the 'i' series are more expensive due to the extra rope length available and faster line speed. Either of which may or may not be important depending on application.

Sorry about the formatting!!

[dmdigital]

Will the wireless remote clip in place inside the centre cubby box?
Don't see why not.

Why would you put the solenoid pack (is that whats its called for the XDC??) lower down, behind the bumper rather than higher up under the bonnet? Is the weatherproofing on it really that good? What about when it gets submerged? Any issues?
From what I've seen when I installed it the whole unit is encased and just has the terminals for the wires on the outside. Couldn't see any opening for anything to get in to it. Hence I don't see mounting it there as an issue.

Slightly different questions:
1. Ive been told that with the Warn winches there is no need to fit a dedicated isolater as they are activated via 3 pins on the remote, not 2, hence the old paper clip trick doesnt work. That said the isolator would protect from any winch / cable malfunction causing nasty fires! Whats the concensus? Isolate or not?
2. If the answer to above is to isolate... There must be a better method than to use those large switches that get in your way and have the potential to loose the key! Could the winch not be isolated with a heavy duty solenoid in the battery box and a nice, convenient, low current ON/OFF switch on the dash?
Solenoid diagram in this PDF: XDC Installation (http://www.warn.com/truck/winches/images/1102/74898-A3.pdf)

[leeds]

Hi Jon, it feels a bit odd talking about winches with you via AULRO on the other side of the world when we are only about 70 miles apart in the UK :p

A few further comments for you. The 9.5 XP has a 6hp motor whilst the others have 4.8hp motors and the gear ratio is all 156:1. Means that the 9.5 is heavier on the current draw which is no problem with your Odessy batteries.

No load line speed is irrelevant for you as your usage is non competitive.

Winch line capacity is of more interest. The 9.5 apparently only has room for 30m x 8mm wire rope whereas the others have room for 38m. Oddly enough the drum diamensions are give as 2.5" diameter and 9" length. Why can the 9.5XP only take 30 metres?? Typo? There is a typo in the spec sheet of the 9.5si as in layer 5 can only pull 649lbs or 3150 kg.

The line speed of the 9.5 XP is about 10% higher then the Ti or Si across the load range but at the cost of a higher current draw.

The other alternatives are the Tabor range from Warn although I can not see a spec sheet on the Warn site

Decisions, decisions!

Regards


Brendan

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Thanks Derek / Brendan, much appreciated.

Brendan, some decisions are easy - Im staying on the Warn path!

With regard to fixing the Warn's in an ARB winch bumper, I know the XP and XDC will fit but the Ti & Si seem to generate confusion - even the ARB site is crap on this. Id rather not have to take a grinder or welder to a new bumper!

So... Anyone know for sure if they will or will not fit?

[dullbird]

Can't you just ring them and ask?

[dmdigital]

The width shouldn't be an issue with any of these on the Defender. The main thing I see as a potential problem would be the fact the ARB bar is a forward mount, not base plate mount (like Mantec bumper). I had to rotate the clutch housing on the XDC to fit it. If you can't rotate the fixed controller bridge on these, then you will be in trouble. I'm pretty sure that ARB said the 9.5Ti was an option though when I bought the XDC.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Can't you just ring them and ask?

Wouldnt that be easy! Problem is here in the UK people are frightened to sell the Defender ARB (legal issues re bull-bars - see below) and therefore information is VERY limited, especially on the new breed of winches, hence the questions. The nearest place that may know are the Germans, my Germain isnt that great and there English is only marginally better!

To my knowledge the UK law states that you can fit these "winch mounts" if the car it is to be applied to does not meet the latest (EU4 I think) safety standards. To that end the Defender doesnt and therefore is OK. Another grey area of UK law is who is responsible in a court of law, should an accident arise and law suit arise due to the ARB, the seller or buyer....

All these things conspire against selling the ARB in the UK, but I can get them easily from Germany - so long as I know what I want / need!

[Yorkshire_Jon]

The width shouldn't be an issue with any of these on the Defender. The main thing I see as a potential problem would be the fact the ARB bar is a forward mount, not base plate mount (like Mantec bumper). I had to rotate the clutch housing on the XDC to fit it. If you can't rotate the fixed controller bridge on these, then you will be in trouble. I'm pretty sure that ARB said the 9.5Ti was an option though when I bought the XDC.

Its a big ask Derek and I know your busy preparing for your trip, but any chance you could make a phone call or two and find out about the Ti?

Ta

[dmdigital]

If I remember during the week I'll give their head office a call.

[dullbird]

Wouldnt that be easy! Problem is here in the UK people are frightened to sell the Defender ARB (legal issues re bull-bars - see below) and therefore information is VERY limited, especially on the new breed of winches, hence the questions. The nearest place that may know are the Germans, my Germain isnt that great and there English is only marginally better!

To my knowledge the UK law states that you can fit these "winch mounts" if the car it is to be applied to does not meet the latest (EU4 I think) safety standards. To that end the Defender doesnt and therefore is OK. Another grey area of UK law is who is responsible in a court of law, should an accident arise and law suit arise due to the ARB, the seller or buyer....

All these things conspire against selling the ARB in the UK, but I can get them easily from Germany - so long as I know what I want / need!


But I thought all you wanted to know was whether a certain type of winch will fit in the ARB bar.....you don't have to ring a uk dealer to find that out ring australia or the states was all I was thinking. They don't have to be close to just find out information. You find out what you want and then buy it from where ever.
If derek can ring head office I don't see why you can't..just don't tell them its for a uk car nt that I would imagine they would even ask, and if they did tell them the car is in oz and that your away with work in the uk

[surfer]

Don't see why not.

From what I've seen when I installed it the whole unit is encased and just has the terminals for the wires on the outside. Couldn't see any opening for anything to get in to it. Hence I don't see mounting it there as an issue.

Solenoid diagram in this PDF: XDC Installation (http://www.warn.com/truck/winches/images/1102/74898-A3.pdf)

I had the Warn 9.5XP winch installed and the control box design is to be flat, So that when doing water crossings the solenoid dont short out.

My 4wd recently was up to the roof in water! The winch and battery were completly covered.
I hooked the winch remote to the box (Under Water) and it pulled the 4WD out!
The 4WD is now written off by the insurance agency.
Oh by the way I did check the depth 3/4 across the creek but the last 3 meters was way over my head!

I would recommend the Warn 9.5XP to anyone that asks, when the brocure says it will work in the most extreme conditions I will say that there bloody right!

Just my 2c worth

Regards

[waz]

The 9.5xp will go into a Defender okay, but the crush cans will need to be modified to fit to a D2.

Waz

[Narangga]

The 9.5xp will go into a Defender okay, but the crush cans will need to be modified to fit to a D2.

Waz

On an ARB Bar?

[Tombie]

A DV9000 sold as Premier Winch in Aus (come up I think in uk) will beat all of them..

I know this, I've had several Warns, a couple of tmax and the premier.

I've stalled the Warns often, but never the Premier...

Premiers external brake won't kill amsteel either... The Warns will and use a sleeve on the inner layers to try and avoid this.

Premiers clutch is far better and won't jam either!

[Tombie]

Some specs:
http://184.72.239.143/mu/3aa3af86-82ab-3adf.jpg

[Tombie]

http://184.72.239.143/mu/3aa3af85-844b-da57.jpg
Warn XP - note the current draw!

http://184.72.239.143/mu/3aa3af83-8471-9682.jpg
And the XDC - don't get much slower!!!

[VladTepes]

tombie - what's amsteel ?

[Tombie]

tombie - what's amsteel ?

Synthetic rope

[Psimpson7]

Not quite sure what you are trying to show there Tombie!

Using your tables the XP smashes the comeup/premier everywhere apart from no load line speed, and current draw (which isnt really that relevant!)

The XP is 15% faster at 9500lb that the CU is at 9000.

Not saying they aren't good, but IME the XP is probably still the best off the shelf low mount winch you can get.

[Tombie]

The difference is 1 ruler length per minute at a far lower current draw.

Not to mention price vs value.

As for quality, I can tell you from experience the DV is built better than the XP...

For a tourer the DV is superior in overall aspects.

The XP was a bitter disappointment when I was running it.
The DV (CU) pulls far stronger (maybe not quite as fast) for far longer.

And yes I've done recoveries with both that had batteries at their limits.

[Tombie]

What the core of what I'm saying is:

They'll do everything asked at a great price for a long time...

And for a tourer, money is best spent elsewhere.

[waz]

On an ARB Bar?

Yup. First problem is the cut-out for the motor is on the left crush can and needs to be on the right or it will spool off the top.

The second problem is the heat sink on the end of the 6hp motor is too big to fit in the cut-out for the smaller motors.

I'll try to post some picture when I finally mount mine. (9.5xp onto an ARB winch bar.)

Waz

[Narangga]

Yup. First problem is the cut-out for the motor is on the left crush can and needs to be on the right or it will spool off the top.

The second problem is the heat sink on the end of the 6hp motor is too big to fit in the cut-out for the smaller motors.

I'll try to post some picture when I finally mount mine. (9.5xp onto an ARB winch bar.)

Waz

No worries - just checking I wasn't guessing.

[jimbob292]

Jon, there is also the Warn 9.5 XDC. Cheaper than the others and has the thermal cut out switch and solid state switch box. Better value than the XP.

They will all fit the ARB bar on a Defender, though I'm not 100% sure about the Si as I haven't looked at the spec's on that one.

I've got the XDC on the Puma with plasma rope and the Warn wireless remote.

What grade of Plasma rope did you go for?