Puma frustation

[Allan]

Lets face it the puma has problems, my SVX is still at the dealers for a vibration problem. They have said they are sick of throwing parts at it and need to fix the problem, but will I be young enought to offroad it by the time its fixed (59). On the other hand when its right what else would any of us drive offroad? Are we, as puma drivers, sending our resale values to the level of a fiat125 overnight.
Does anywone think we need to work constructivly with the dealers and possibly LR as a club, to improve the product? I know my dealer is sick to death with my vehicle being in their workshop. I feel thay are almost as frustrated as i am. As a mental Health Nurse, I am not sure if this is best practice, as a LR owner I need input.


Allan

[Blknight.aus]

NOT your problem.....

the dealer needs to talk with LRA who needs to talk with LRUK who should be stomping all over the ford engineers.

I'd like to help but theres a couple of problems with that

1. I havent seen or played with a malfunctioning one
2. Im not a registered LR greaser so
a, I dont have the kit to do proper diagnosis
b, Anything I do isnt covered by warrenty
c, Im not insured for it
d, I dont have the tech books so most of my work would be basic principals stuff
3. I dont have a stack of parts to look at and play with on it

[Scallops]

Lets face it the puma has problems, my SVX is still at the dealers for a vibration problem. They have said they are sick of throwing parts at it and need to fix the problem, but will I be young enought to offroad it by the time its fixed (59). On the other hand when its right what else would any of us drive offroad? Are we, as puma drivers, sending our resale values to the level of a fiat125 overnight.
Does anywone think we need to work constructivly with the dealers and possibly LR as a club, to improve the product? I know my dealer is sick to death with my vehicle being in their workshop. I feel thay are almost as frustrated as i am. As a mental Health Nurse, I am not sure if this is best practice, as a LR owner I need input.


Allan

You know - my Puma just isn't that bad! I've had 3 issues - vacuum pump, ABS sensors, and a harmonic noise. The former two are both well known issues with the 07 model and are now fixed to 09 spec. A new rear prop shaft has sorted the harmonic noise and indeed the vehicle drives like a Bentley now. I think the sump pan was a recall but I got mine swapped out on demand before this was the case.

It is sometimes a battle to get a dealer to sort things properly, but I think I got a "good" Puma and I'm more than happy with it and it's mechanical record.

I get mine serviced at MR automotive though (a Land Rover specialist) not the dealers - unless I'm away and can't avoid it.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I get mine serviced at MR automotive though (a Land Rover specialist) not the dealers - unless I'm away and can't avoid it.
So you just take it to LR for warranty? I'm familiar with MR and know how good they are. How do LR like that?

[Scallops]

So you just take it to LR for warranty? I'm familiar with MR and know how good they are. How do LR like that?

Yes - just for warranty. I suspect LRA neither like me nor the fact that I take it to MR. :D But they only have themselves to blame - I've had to take my vehicle to MR to diagnose my issues (at my cost) so LR can fix them, so why would I trust LR to do the servicing?

PS - My dealer gave me a quote to do the next (40,000km) service - $1200.00

MR's quote - $500.00 - Get real LRA - $700.00 saved. And you know everything is done properly.

[Scouse]

So you just take it to LR for warranty? I'm familiar with MR and know how good they are. How do LR like that?LR don't mind who services the vehicle as long as it's done by the book.
However, who services the vehicle can make a big difference after warranty has expired & you want help from LR.

[Scallops]

LR don't mind who services the vehicle as long as it's done by the book.
However, who services the vehicle can make a big difference after warranty has expired & you want help from LR.

In a way, I'm actually looking forward to my warranty expiring - because then I can just leave everything to MR rather than have to go to LR, have them say nothing is wrong, then go to MR, then go back to LR!

[Rugrat]

PS - My dealer gave me a quote to do the next (40,000km) service - $1200.00

MR's quote - $500.00 - Get real LRA - $700.00 saved. And you know everything is done properly.

Just had our 40k done. Quote was for $850 - actual was $728. So I thing your dealer may be slipped on the calculator buttons. :) Our only goes to the dealer (at this stage).

[Scouse]

Point taken.

As an example, we have a customer who just had their D3 V6 suffer a catastrophic failure over a year out of warranty. LR are picking up the full replacement motor cost. Full service history made the decision by LR a lot easier in this case.

[Scallops]

Just had our 40k done. Quote was for $850 - actual was $728. So I thing your dealer may be slipped on the calculator buttons. :) Our only goes to the dealer (at this stage).

Well that is the quote ($1200.00) and that's what I'd be charged (perhaps they add in the "annoying customer" item to my bill) - I can't drive to Melbourne to get it done :p. I know my quote is right for the Brisbane dealership as both service centres gave me the same quote.

[SVX37]

Yes - just for warranty. I suspect LRA neither like me nor the fact that I take it to MR. :D But they only have themselves to blame - I've had to take my vehicle to MR to diagnose my issues (at my cost) so LR can fix them, so why would I trust LR to do the servicing?

PS - My dealer gave me a quote to do the next (40,000km) service - $1200.00

MR's quote - $500.00 - Get real LRA - $700.00 saved. And you know everything is done properly.

At $1200 they are telling you they don't want your car there....or your wallet looks fat to them!

[Scallops]

At $1200 they are telling you they don't want your car there....

Yes - I know - they have nothing to worry about on that front.

It would be an interesting exercise to ring Austral motors and ask them for a quote for this service - see what they say!

[muddymech]

Does anywone think we need to work constructivly with the dealers and possibly LR as a club, to improve the product?

Allan



I think in general we are trying our best to improve what is a great car, if i could have waited i would have bought once the car had been sold for couple of years but my circumsatnces suited buying an early car, hence i now pay the price for this by being a development mule.

what hurts is being flexible to try and sort out problems but reaching a point were you feel out on a limb and that landrover does not really care. this was high lighted after a phone call to customer service which basically said i was not worthy as a customer and very unimportant.

saying that things may have changed now that they have looked at my warrenty claims as a phone call from them two days later was very civil and sounded like they wanted to help, lets face it landrover want cars going in for warrenty work as much as we do, its extremely frustrating and expensive with all teh additional travel and time off work, but im guessing down the road they will be as reliable as as sought after as 300tdi and td5 which lets face it were not good out of the starting blocks.

I have (i belive) been flexible with landrover, as some would prefer to say i have been walked over, weather it helps getting the car fixed time will tell but it is extremley frustrating and does get the blood boiling, its definatly not an experiance i will recommend for anyone, if landrover prove they can come to the party and start being honest may be i would buy a new car but at the moment i can not even recommended it.

ian

[Captain_Rightfoot]

LR don't mind who services the vehicle as long as it's done by the book.
However, who services the vehicle can make a big difference after warranty has expired & you want help from LR.

Exactly. I know from my previous experience that manufacturers will usually help outside warranty for big items if they can answer the most or all of the following questions in the affirmative.

a) Is the claimant the first owner of the vehicle?
b) Has the vehicle been serviced properly within the dealer network?
c) Is the repair being done by the selling dealer?

I mean they aren't going to look for a dash rattle, or probably chase a leak. However if you had a gb/tc/engine failure I would expect substantial support certainly until 5yo and maybe even 6. I have heard of 6 year old mini's getting partial manufacturer support for big jobs.

That is why I'm struggling with who to service the car with. It has just turned 4 and is now due a service. The dealer has been a bit of a pain and stuffed up lots of stuff for me. However I think LR would still help me if we had something big and expensive go so I'm thinking about swallowing the loss and going there for one last time before switching to MR for good. Scallops calculation of an extra $700 does make you wonder whether you wouldn't be better saving the $$ yourself.

To be honest I'd be happy to service the car myself however if you ever want to sell it then it's good to have a documented service history.

[solmanic]

...Are we, as puma drivers, sending our resale values to the level of a fiat125 overnight.

I think Defender re-sale values will always be good. I believe we, as a collective group on the forum here, are better connected, and therefore better informed than most other new vehicle owners. I mean how many new Nissan & Toyota owners are immediately or already absorbed into such a "club"? We know what is going wrong with just about everybody else's vehicles, and then we all rush out to check and see of our own vehicle is likely to do the same thing. I know that as soon as DB or Scallops tell me about some issue with their Puma, I am all over the dealer to make sure the same thing doesn't happen to mine - and vice versa.

We have a collective fault finding & diagnosis machine here that no dealer can match.

Back to re-sale - I am sure once our Defenders are 5 years old, and most of the faulty parts have either been replaced by LR under warranty, or swapped out for something superior (eg. diffs, axles), or "fallen off" altogether (eg EGR) they will still be valued proportionally higher than any other 5 year old vehicle.

[muddymech]

I think Defender re-sale values will always be good. I believe we, as a collective group on the forum here, are better connected, and therefore better informed than most other new vehicle owners. I mean how many new Nissan & Toyota owners are immediately or already absorbed into such a "club"? We know what is going wrong with just about everybody else's vehicles, and then we all rush out to check and see of our own vehicle is likely to do the same thing. I know that as soon as DB or Scallops tell me about some issue with their Puma, I am all over the dealer to make sure the same thing doesn't happen to mine - and vice versa.

We have a collective fault finding & diagnosis machine here that no dealer can match.

Back to re-sale - I am sure once our Defenders are 5 years old, and most of the faulty parts have either been replaced by LR under warranty, or swapped out for something superior (eg. diffs, axles), or "fallen off" altogether (eg EGR) they will still be valued proportionally higher than any other 5 year old vehicle.



x2.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I think Defender re-sale values will always be good. I believe we, as a collective group on the forum here, are better connected, and therefore better informed than most other new vehicle owners. I mean how many new Nissan & Toyota owners are immediately or already absorbed into such a "club"? We know what is going wrong with just about everybody else's vehicles, and then we all rush out to check and see of our own vehicle is likely to do the same thing. I know that as soon as DB or Scallops tell me about some issue with their Puma, I am all over the dealer to make sure the same thing doesn't happen to mine - and vice versa.

We have a collective fault finding & diagnosis machine here that no dealer can match.

Back to re-sale - I am sure once our Defenders are 5 years old, and most of the faulty parts have either been replaced by LR under warranty, or swapped out for something superior (eg. diffs, axles), or "fallen off" altogether (eg EGR) they will still be valued proportionally higher than any other 5 year old vehicle.

x3 :)

[Scouse]

I have to disagree here.
The more we rubbish these new Defenders, the better chance I will have of being able to buy one in 5 years time :p.

[TimNZ]

2 years, 15 days left of warranty, then its out with the TDCi & Getrag and in with the TDV6 & and disco 6 speed.

How it should have been in the first place.

Tim

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...then its out with the TDCi & Getrag and in with the TDV6 & and disco 6 speed.

How it should have been in the first place.

TimWhy doesn't LR get that issue. :confused:

They seem to think that particular engine/transmission combinations should only be part of the status of the vehicle. Hence only RRs and Vogue get the TDV8, the Disco3 gets the TDV6 and the Defender only gets the Puma.

Have they ever heard of grey nomads who want to tow a 28ft caravan around Aus want the interior space of the D3 but the power to tow the van long distances. Same with the Defender, are they only supposed to crawl around the country with the family and the camper trailer using a little 4 cyl diesel when the competition have 6 and 8 cyl options.

When will they learn???? :(

[SVX37]

Yes - I know - they have nothing to worry about on that front.

It would be an interesting exercise to ring Austral motors and ask them for a quote for this service - see what they say!

Hey Scallops! I just rang them........$1200! Just as you stated so no favours for me.:D

[Scallops]

Hey Scallops! I just range them........$1200! Just as you stated so no favours for me.:D

:D:D I rang Southern Cross too - they charge the same - don't know why the Melbourne dealers are so much cheaper.

[inside]

Why doesn't LR get that issue. :confused:
I think it is because the Defender is an international model, supporting that you are supposed to be able drive it from here to the UK if you wanted to and during that trip you would likely be putting in some very low quality fuel compared to our standards. A TDV6 may be great for Australia and our diesel but travelling to other countries it might stop when feed junky fuel.

In any case it seems the new Defenders have some issues which is unfortunate as the rest of LRs model range is doing well at shaking the unreliable tag from its image. But then the Defender is the only new classic car you can buy and if you own a classic you're supposed to break down on the side of the road every so often. :)

[frantic]

I have said it before to LR themselves. If they wanted to compete with toy/niss in the defender range , fit them all with airbags and abs, every company that uses these comercial utes would be falling over themselves to buy a defender as most large companies and their subbie's have OH&S guidlines in place to only purchase the vehicle in the range/apllication they are looking at with abs/airbags. At the moment no large 4wd ute has these!(patrol cruiser, defender)
If LR wanted to go headon with toyota why not follow their lead and put a detuned TDV8, abs, 2 airbags( they had airbags in the disco in 1989 why not in a def 20years later?) into a defender at a price that would match the LEAF sprung toy. At the moment the price diff is around $7-10,000 with similar options surely puting in 2 airbags, abs in 130's( single and crew as business orders would flow) and a tdv8 would not cost more than $10k?

[TimNZ]

<snip>I think it is because the Defender is an international model, supporting that you are supposed to be able drive it from here to the UK if you wanted to and during that trip you would likely be putting in some very low quality fuel compared to our standards. A TDV6 may be great for Australia and our diesel but travelling to other countries it might stop when feed junky fuel.

<snip>

Try telling Dullbird and Muddymech that. LRA are getting upset if we drive our cars offroad, or even in the rain!!! How is the Puma supposed to be able to cope with crap fuel if it doesn't even have a decent sediometer/filter arrangement.

Tim

[dmdigital]

I am in the minority obviously. These are the faults so far with my Puma.
- Weeping Pinion seal on rear diff (that's OK my Tdi has one to match, will get fixed when next serviced)
- Loose door seal on driver's side rear door down the angle section (get fixed next service)
- Leak on driver's side door somewhere. It is very hard to find a leak when it is bucketing down rain which is also being blown almost horizontally against the side of the car. As I mentioned elsewhere, new Hilux down the road leaked a lot worse and is much harder to dry out. (will try an get fixed, have to find it again at next service)

And that's it! So far nothing else, drives well, fuel economy is improving after 11000km and in 6 weeks time it starts out on a 3 month trip. Doesn't use oil. As for what I've read on forums (or is that forii:confused:) about problems, the only one I am concerned about is the vacuum pump and I am procuring a spare for the trip.

The first 10 days of the vehicles life it did 4,500km with a Kimberley Kamper behind it. 630km of that was corrugated and very dust dirt road. Its now had all the oils changed except the gearbox at 5,000km (5 weeks old) and the engine oil and oil filter changed at 10,000km (6 months). If I drive it out of town it is on a dusty or muddy corrugated dirt track. It has clocked up a few km's on the beach having done about 6 trips out to Cape Arnhem on soft sand.

[TimNZ]

I think thats the problem Derek, they have the scope to be an absolutly brilliant vehicle. Some things could have been better, like the fuel filter arrangement I mentioned, but nearly all the people that have had trouble have been let down by dealer support and build quality.

[scarry]

Yes - just for warranty. I suspect LRA neither like me nor the fact that I take it to MR. :D But they only have themselves to blame - I've had to take my vehicle to MR to diagnose my issues (at my cost) so LR can fix them, so why would I trust LR to do the servicing?

PS - My dealer gave me a quote to do the next (40,000km) service - $1200.00

MR's quote - $500.00 - Get real LRA - $700.00 saved. And you know everything is done properly.

X2

The 80k service for the D2 from Austral was something like $1100.The vehicle had not actually done 80k,but the 4yrs was up.MR did the service PROPERLY:)
for $500 approx,including replacing the plastic filler plugs in the diffs with brass ones,and flushing & filling the auto with synthetic fluid,& doing the auto service.

[Scallops]

X2

The 80k service for the D2 from Austral was something like $1100.The vehicle had not actually done 80k,but the 4yrs was up.MR did the service PROPERLY:)
for $500 approx,including replacing the plastic filler plugs in the diffs with brass ones,and flushing & filling the auto with synthetic fluid,& doing the auto service.

Exactly - and congratulations on making "Wizard"! :D

[solmanic]

...The 80k service for the D2 from Austral was something like $1100.

Remember, poor old Austral have a big premises and have to pay inner city rates! Also, how else will they effectively discourage we Defender driving scum from messing up their nice clean workshop floor with our oil leaks. :blink:

[Rugrat]

:D:D I rang Southern Cross too - they charge the same - don't know why the Melbourne dealers are so much cheaper.

:eek: Glad I dont live in QLD - 1200 is to rich. How much would fuel costs be to drive south :p

[spudboy]

I am in the minority obviously.

No - mine has been trouble free too. It got a recall to put on a new sump, but that's it, and they even gave me a free loan car for the day, so no complaints.

No diff problems, which I was expecting.

Still got 18 months of warranty left, so plenty of time to catch up with everyone else :D

[scarry]

Remember, poor old Austral have a big premises and have to pay inner city rates! Also, how else will they effectively discourage we Defender driving scum from messing up their nice clean workshop floor with our oil leaks. :blink:

But if someone else can do a better job at half the price.........We better not say too much they may put their rates up:o

Anyway,thanks Scallops,i hadn't noticed,i will have a dig around & find out what a Wizard means:p;)

Still cant find an LR no. on the vacuum pump:angel:I will get junior to take a pic of it & put on here.

[JohnR]

Well I am happy camper as well :D My car has never broken down on the side of the road and the only faults it's had Southside LR have fixed with a smile. They really look after me there right down to letting me choose what type of loan car I would like :eek: I have always been very civil and thankfull of the service they have given me and the couple of times they made mistakes I pointed them out they appologied profusly and fixed the problem.

These are great cars and have a few teathing problems. I know a couple of you have had more than your fair share but I think if you have a good relationship with your dealer they will go to the end of the earth for you. They are people who are payed to look after these cars, not the designers and not the decision makers for policy etc... Going off at them or making them feel inferior or subserviant will not get you far.

My car gets a fair thrashing and they thank me for using it "properly" I am supprised the the axles and diff's have survived so well.

I am one happy 07 Defender Driver :D

Cheers,

[Scallops]

And as I said in post number 3 in this thread - my Puma is and has been fine too. I've had a few issues - both with the vehicle and in particular with the dealers - but overall my Puma is great - love it, happy I bought it.

[GuyG]

Well I am happy camper as well :D My car has never broken down on the side of the road and the only faults it's had Southside LR have fixed with a smile.



I seem to remember that it did run out of fuel :wasntme:

[JohnR]

I seem to remember that it did run out of fuel :wasntme:


Well yes and the very next day I got fair up LR for that ! How dare they make a vehicle that can't cope with the simple day to day 1050km's! :p

Thanks for bringing that up Guy :censored::rocket:

Cheers,

[inside]

From reading the posts on Puma problems it's doesn't seem to be the issues themselves it's more the speed at which they can be identified and fixed, vehicles these days are complex and complex products can have problems. As an end user though you have a right to expect a certain level of support after you've put down the $. You also have to read through the noise a little and understand that people with the issues will make it known where as people who don't aren't going to start threads saying they've had 6 months of trouble free driving!

The issue seems to be internally in LR somewhere not the dealers. I have a new LR and have found them very responsive and quick to act but I did have a feeling that they tend to give things a go and then tell you it's OK. We replaced XYZ and that has solved the problem but there was little understanding of what actually caused the problem.

In the OP's case what you would like to hear is "Sorry we do not know what the problem is but we have communicated with LR in the UK and they have a lead engineer working on a solution for you. It's going to be a few days here's a loan car and we'll let you know what we will be doing next".

[dullbird]

From reading the posts on Puma problems it's doesn't seem to be the issues themselves it's more the speed at which they can be identified and fixed, vehicles these days are complex and complex products can have problems. As an end user though you have a right to expect a certain level of support after you've put down the $. You also have to read through the noise a little and understand that people with the issues will make it known where as people who don't aren't going to start threads saying they've had 6 months of trouble free driving!

The issue seems to be internally in LR somewhere not the dealers. I have a new LR and have found them very responsive and quick to act but I did have a feeling that they tend to give things a go and then tell you it's OK. We replaced XYZ and that has solved the problem but there was little understanding of what actually caused the problem.


In the OP's case what you would like to hear is "Sorry we do not know what the problem is but we have communicated with LR in the UK and they have a lead engineer working on a solution for you. It's going to be a few days here's a loan car and we'll let you know what we will be doing next".

OMG inside you hit the nail right on the head there...we would love to hear that and be very happy with that outcome even if it was ongoing. Better than being lied to or kept in the dark

[Searover]

Well i've had few issue with mine after only 14'000K, not as many or as serious as other here. Main crank shaft seal leak, rear seal transfer case leak,power steering hose came loose dumping all the fluid just as i arrived home, brake line rubbed thru on a heat shield in the engine bay and sump replaced.

I've just realized mines behaving just like a normal landrover, leaking all over the place just doing it earlier than most, It's a fast learner:o. Maybe i should be happy about that:)

Not really happy about all the problems as I've lost confidence in her ability to survive any long trips and it's a 900Km round trip to the dealer. Will see later this year if I keep her or trade her.

As a relatively new comer to the land Rover fold and having very few problems with the D3 I'm a little disappointed with the Defender but love her in many other ways so I'll probably persevere for the time being.

[dullbird]

we have had our fair share of problems.....but in fairness to the car it did a 12,000k trip in 4weeks without a hicup:)

[Craig]

I'd like to put my hand up as another relativly happy owner. Its been almost 12 months now and I've on ly had a few problems.
- Central locking not working on front pax door.
- Drivers power window falling out.
(dealer thinks that these were the fault of the window tinter, but fixed them anyway)
- Door seal on rear drivers side door at the bottom at the angle bit.
which will be fixed next service.

I hope I'm not jinxing it now. but so far so good.

Craig

[PAT303]

I'd just like to say that all the problems that people have had like the hoses rubbing through and vac pump drama's etc are just as common on other makes.I have maintained fleets of vehicles for a while now and dash warning lights coming on,faulty parts,recalls etc are a weekly thing.LR have done a very good job,and thats not biased it's the truth when it comes to reliability and it is proven by the number of LR's now owned by mag editors etc which would not have happened 10 years ago.They are assembled by people so they do have issues. Pat

[Scouse]

Drivers power window falling out.
(dealer thinks that these were the fault of the window tinter, but fixed them anyway)
There's been a few through here with that have had the window bolts fall out. It seems they haven't been tightened on assembly.

[solmanic]

For the record, I am also a happy owner! No breakdowns here - only cosmetic niggles and early response to the more major issues as I get even a sniff something is untoward.

The main issue with the Puma Defenders is the same as it has been with ALL Previous Defenders - build quality. We all know the reasons - hand built unit and all that - but it doesn't stop us from exercising our rights as consumers to expect a 100% perfect product. And we also know that if things aren't put together absolutely straight, true & tight then who knows what can go wrong down the track.

Sure, there are failures with components that are part of the new 07MY package, but I will be very surprised if any of these survive three years of warranty attention.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

For the record, I am also a happy owner! No breakdowns here - only cosmetic niggles and early response to the more major issues as I get even a sniff something is untoward.

The main issue with the Puma Defenders is the same as it has been with ALL Previous Defenders - build quality. We all know the reasons - hand built unit and all that - but it doesn't stop us from exercising our rights as consumers to expect a 100% perfect product. And we also know that if things aren't put together absolutely straight, true & tight then who knows what can go wrong down the track.

Sure, there are failures with components that are part of the new 07MY package, but I will be very surprised if any of these survive three years of warranty attention.

We bought a new BMW MINI in 2002. It was one of the first Cooper S off the line. However they had been building them for 11months when ours rolled down the line and we hoped it would be enough to get things sorted.

Well, as it turned out it wasn't. The car was plagued with all manner of minor and major faults and niggles. That car had literally dozens of visits to the dealer and spent months away from us. I would estimate that BMW sank well more than 10k in warranty cost into that car! To give you some idea they replaced three front door trims because the silver was painted on and it kept dissolving unless you washed your hands before you closed the door! Each door trim had a warranty cost of $1400 plus fitting !

Anyway, despite all this we did love the car. However with the arrival of the second child it just couldn't stay so we sold it after 4 years. At the point of sale it was a good ship and we hoped it would treat the new owner well. So - to your point solmanac - we have kept in contact with the new owner and he just texted me this morning as he is trading it on a new JCW. How many problems did he experience over 2.5 years that were related to the cars troubled beginnings? 1 minor glitch.

So, it shows ride the dealers hard and get it fixed under warranty and you should have a trouble free car.

As an aside it amazed me that a handbuilt defender could be better put together than a MINI built by BMW!

[solmanic]

As an aside it amazed me that a handbuilt defender could be better put together than a MINI built by BMW!

Yes, but some of the BMW mini parts are manufactured at the Land Rover factory ;).

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Yes, but some of the BMW mini parts are manufactured at the Land Rover factory ;).

:o I know a guy who apparently assembled my left hand front door and he told me that they stamp the panels for MINI. :o I'm not sure whether they did the bonnets or not - but the blurb said they were the largest/most complex pressing on any car... which sounds like a big claim. For the record, my front left had door has been trouble free :D:D

[solmanic]

I'm pretty sure ALL the mini panels are pressed at Solihull. It's one of the reasons BMW invested so much in a new pressing facility there. Seen them there myself.

[perko]

I would also like to put my hand up as a very happy puma defender owner. My 08 defender has done nothing but perform in the last 20,00km's, the first 6,000km's driving around perth wa and back to tasmania and the last 14,000km's in tasmania. Since being back in tasmania I have done nothing but abuse the defender on some of the hardest offroad tracks in tasmania and it has done it with ease. I feel sorry for all the owners that are having problems with there defenders, because this defender would have to be the best land rover I have ever owned.

[one_iota]

There have been a couple of issues for me (a clutch and a couple of sensors and a loose earth) but there were much worse with my 95 Disco in the first couple of years and the Disco has kept on keeping on without too many more problems.

I'm a very happy Puma Defender owner