IS There A Santa Claus??????

[**Discovery300Tdi**]

Ok well i have to get this off my chest before i put myself in a mental home!:wheelchair:

I have been talking to my wife about this subject for awhile now and want to put it to rest. Now is it wrong to tell your kids that there is a santa or there isn't????? :oops2:personal i think its wrong because basically your filling false hope into your children. I know it gives them joy and puts smiles on there faces and i love it when my kids are happy and smileing but its still not telling them the truth. Should we be teaching our kids about the real reason for christmas????

What do you guys think????? Please dont think that i hate christmas or i'm a bible basher:angel: just want to see other peoples opinions about the subject.

cheers simon.

[dullbird]

I wonder what his noodleness would think!:D












If and when I have kids there WILL be a Santa Claus as although not true that is one of my most strongest and fondest memories from my childhood

[The ho har's]

I don't think it hurts to beleive in Santa cause they aren't kids for very long and soon enough they will grow up;)


Mrs ho har:angel:

[Scallops]

Whadya mean there is no Santa Claus????? Next you'll be telling us that the Easter Bunny doesn't exist - sheesh - let your kids have a childhood.

[dmdigital]

You mean THERE'S NOT A SANTA CLAUS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:BigCry: :BigCry: :BigCry: :BigCry: :BigCry:

[WedWon]

Should we be teaching our kids about the real reason for christmas????


By the real reason I assume you are talking about is the Northern Hemisphere's pagen celebration of the mid winter solstice.

I am an advocate of telling children that the gifts and things don't come from a rotund white haired house breaker.

The mileage you would get in the "behave or else..." stakes beforeand would be helpful, and when theri faces light up with delight, its going to be you they'll look up to in appreciation

Just my 2c worth
Jason

[stevo68]

Whadya mean there is no Santa Claus????? Next you'll be telling us that the Easter Bunny doesn't exist - sheesh - let your kids have a childhood. X2, what false hope, Santa's real. I have 4 children from 12 to 1 yr old. The 12 yr old has pretty much cottoned on about the whole Santa thing.....but she still "believes" in it. I think it is just one of those things that is a great childhood memory....pure and simple. Honestly.....I think you would have to be a hell of a grinch to tell ones kids,

Regards

Stevo

[Blknight.aus]

santa, easter bunny, its all fun I had them both along with the chirstmas roo and the easter bilby.

[bblaze]

I'm 48, I got presents from him, I've dressed up as the big fellow, I have seen the joy that he brings to kids and for that I will believe
cheers
blaze

[weeds]

i still get presents from santa claus...........he must be real

[Blknight.aus]

Consider the following:

1) No known species of reindeer can fly. But there are 300,000 species of living organisms yet to be classified, and while most of these are insects and germs, this does not COMPLETELY rule out flying reindeer which only Santa has ever seen.

2) There are 2 billion children (persons under 18) in the world. BUT since Santa doesn't (appear) to handle the Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and Buddhist children, that reduces the workload to 15% of the total - 378 million according to Population Reference Bureau. At an average (census) rate of 3.5 children per household, that's 91.8 million homes. One presumes there's at least one good child in each.

3) Santa has 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he travels east to west (which seems logical).

This works out to 822.6 visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household with good children, Santa has 1/1000th of a second to park, hop out of the sleigh, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left, get back up the chimney, get back into the sleigh and move on to the next house.

Assuming that each of these 91.8 million stops are evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course, we know to be false but for the purposes of our calculations we will accept), we are now talking about .78 miles per household, a total trip of 75-1/2 million miles, not counting stops to do what most of us must do at least once every 31 hours, plus feeding and etc.

This means that Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second, 3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest man- made vehicle on earth, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per second - a conventional reindeer can run, tops, 15 miles per hour.

4) The payload on the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium-sized lego set (2 pounds), the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting Santa, who is invariably described as overweight.

On land, conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting that 'flying reindeer' (see point #1) could pull TEN TIMES the normal amount, we cannot do the job with eight, or even nine.

We need 214,200 reindeer. This increases the payload - not even counting the weight of the sleigh - to 353,430 tons. Again, for comparison - this is four times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth.

5) 353,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air resistance - this will heat the reindeer up in the same fashion as spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy. Per second. Each.

In short, they will burst into flame almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them, and create deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire reindeer team will be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second.

Santa, meanwhile, will be subjected to centrifugal forces 17,500.06 times greater than gravity. A 250-pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of his sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force.> In conclusion - If Santa ever DID deliver presents on Christmas Eve, he's dead now.

[dullbird]

LMFAO :Rolling:

[The ho har's]

Consider the following:

1) No known species of reindeer can fly. But there are 300,000 species of living organisms yet to be classified, and while most of these are insects and germs, this does not COMPLETELY rule out flying reindeer which only Santa has ever seen.

2) There are 2 billion children (persons under 18) in the world. BUT since Santa doesn't (appear) to handle the Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and Buddhist children, that reduces the workload to 15% of the total - 378 million according to Population Reference Bureau. At an average (census) rate of 3.5 children per household, that's 91.8 million homes. One presumes there's at least one good child in each.

3) Santa has 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he travels east to west (which seems logical).

This works out to 822.6 visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household with good children, Santa has 1/1000th of a second to park, hop out of the sleigh, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left, get back up the chimney, get back into the sleigh and move on to the next house.

Assuming that each of these 91.8 million stops are evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course, we know to be false but for the purposes of our calculations we will accept), we are now talking about .78 miles per household, a total trip of 75-1/2 million miles, not counting stops to do what most of us must do at least once every 31 hours, plus feeding and etc.

This means that Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second, 3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest man- made vehicle on earth, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per second - a conventional reindeer can run, tops, 15 miles per hour.

4) The payload on the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium-sized lego set (2 pounds), the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting Santa, who is invariably described as overweight.

On land, conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting that 'flying reindeer' (see point #1) could pull TEN TIMES the normal amount, we cannot do the job with eight, or even nine.

We need 214,200 reindeer. This increases the payload - not even counting the weight of the sleigh - to 353,430 tons. Again, for comparison - this is four times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth.

5) 353,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air resistance - this will heat the reindeer up in the same fashion as spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy. Per second. Each.

In short, they will burst into flame almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them, and create deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire reindeer team will be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second.

Santa, meanwhile, will be subjected to centrifugal forces 17,500.06 times greater than gravity. A 250-pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of his sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force.> In conclusion - If Santa ever DID deliver presents on Christmas Eve, he's dead now.



:TakeABow::TakeABow::TakeABow::TakeABow::clap2:


I liked my reply better:wasntme:



Mrs ho har:angel:

[V8Landy]

How old are they Simon???. They are only kids once let them find out later. The smiles on my kids faces that he brings i will tell them when they are 21.:p

[samuelclarke]

Of course he exists...his name is Fred Claus (http://fredclaus.warnerbros.com/) (and it just happens to be a movie) :bangin: :wasntme:

Blknight.aus that reply was classic lol - good laugh. :D

Back on topic though, in reality it is deception. Is it setting a bad example? That's a hard one to answer honestly. Is it just a harmless part of growing up? Maybe, or maybe not. I can only remember once visiting Santa when I was a kid, and my parents never led me on to believe it was true...they also didn't come out and say it was false either. Really I think it should be told in the context of fairy tails.

There are other area's of Christmas that I think should be at least given equal coverage - like focusing on what I can give instead of receive (with the children especially), spending time investing in relationships that matter and yes even though the real origins of Christmas aren't Christian I think it's good to give thought to the implications of Jesus Christ coming to this earth mean to us. For believer or non-believer you would have to admit that his life and death have radically affected history...I think the world would be a better place if people lived their lives by more of the principles he taught...

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now. :angel:

[vnx205]

I trust you are familiar with this response from 1897.

Newseum - Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus (http://www.newseum.org/yesvirginia/)

[F4Phantom]

Dont tell them, let them work it out for themselves. In the mean time perpetuate the childhood story which has been around causing zero mental health problems for over 100 years (dont know when it started).

Dont over analyse this stuff, there is no right and wrong and the world has grown up on myths and legends since the idea was able to be conveyed. I think you would have to be a stuck up ***** to actually think you can predict a positive or negative outcome to wether kids should belive in things which are not true untill an age where they can reason for themselves. It it was not santa, in another world it would have been something else.

If you want to end santa, you may as well get them started on life long careers, financial planning, experience in factory work, homework stress relief methods, lessons in the dangers of low school marks, an intorduction to horrible car accidents, oh and how to appreciate your parents more for buying your christmas presents.

[DiscoStew]

this will heat the reindeer up in the same fashion as spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere

Why the hell do you think Rudolf has a red nose? It's not from drinking too many gin and tonics.


I don't think I have ever heard of a kid growing up to be a misfit because they suddenly find out that their parents have been lying about Santa Clause. "Your honour, I only committed perjury because my parents lied to me for years about Santa."

And what about all those other lies parents tell?? Especially the ones that end up with some poor kid being ripped to shreds on Australian Idol because their parents never told them the truth about why Nanna's ears started bleeding at the school concert.

and to the comment about how well behaved the kids will be if they know it is up to you to decide if they have been good enough.:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

[IceFyre]

I have a friend who believes it's wrong to lie to kids and tell them Santa is real (she tells them he is just a fairy tale) .. Now this is the same person that tells her kids when their pet mouse died that he was just sleeping. I think you will find that most people who tell their kids that Santa is not real, due to not wanting to lie to their kids, tell them little white lies all the time. Do you tell your kid that the noises coming from the bedroom some nights are Mummy and Daddy wrestling or tickling each other or the truth ??

Come on we are kids only once .. leave all the disappointments for when we are adults :)

Just my 2c worth :)

And yes I will be lying to my son about Santa for as long as I can.

[Basil135]

My girls firmly believe there is a Santa. They know the Christian meaning of Christmas, due to the school they attend, but are happy in the myth that Santa brings them some pressies as well.

This might not be helped when Dad (aka - me) always seems to get just what he wanted from Santa. :D And Santa's hand writing looks a lot like mine...:cool:

The other side of the coin is, if you tell your kids the "truth" how are they going to a) feel at Christmas when all the other kids are talking about it, and b) going to handle been told by their friends that Santa is true, and mum & dad are lying about it.

The other thing to consider is with the commercialism of Christmas, are they actually going to believe you, when they see Santa's in every store?

[mike 90 RR]

Life is short ... So you can either have some fun ... or ... just be pessimistic about it

If you want to teach them reality ... The world is gonna blow up, the sun is gonna explode, Man is doomed, The cow your patting is gonna be on your dinner plate

That should keep them nervous & depressed for a few years

Nothing wrong with fantasy ... Even your avatar is derived from it ... It's good for the mind & teaches imagination .... This is the basis of all modes of entertainment & invention


Is Santa real????
Lets look at the Criteria of the subject ..... He lives in the North Pole / He delivers Toys / He knows if your naughty or nice / He won't appear untill your all asleep / He drinks milk & eats a cookie

I knew if they were naughty or nice
I bought the toys
I wrapped the presents
I waited till 2pm to make sure they were asleep
I put them under the tree
I drank the milk & ate the cookie
I sprinkled flour in footsteps, out of the fireplace to the Xmas tree (snow)

Criteria fulfilled .... Yes Santa is real ... You just need to twig that IT IS YOU who is THE SANTA .... Ba humbug

So hope your gonna don the red suit this year ... and teach & show them the basis of values in sharing / giving / Family .... Also it is a lesson on the values of considering others .... All the preparation work + the activities involved, keeps them interactive & busy ...

It will only be what you want to make out of it ...

Mike
:)

[JohnF]

Parents lie and tell their kid there is a Santa, then wonder when they grow up they do not believe their is a god, and so these kids grow up to become ardent skeptics, who will not believe anything even when the evidence says it exists. "Train up a child in the way that he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it." Proverbs 22:6.

[mike 90 RR]

Parents lie and tell their kid there is a Santa

A .... No lie has been told
B .... You gonna tell me that you don't enjoy a good (non religious) fictional story
C .... Even god is about sharing and caring

[stevo68]

Parents lie and tell their kid there is a Santa, then wonder when they grow up they do not believe their is a god, and so these kids grow up to become ardent skeptics, who will not believe anything even when the evidence says it exists. "Train up a child in the way that he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it." Proverbs 22:6. Are you serious?? No offence...but what a load of twallop...where is the evidence/ statistics to back up your claim? I grew up with Santa as did my siblings. I believe in God....my brother is a pastor and my sister works in the church.

I think drawing a correlation between Santa and growing up skeptical is drawing a llllooooooooonnnnnggggggg bow indeed :eek:,

Regards

Stevo

[Timj]

And since when was Spot the dog real? We tell children stories to help them to learn about life, how to live with others and how they should conduct themselves as part of our society. Santa is just one of those stories and certainly bought a lot of joy to my children as they were growing up. It wasn't traumatic when they decided that he wasn't real, it just became a different way to enjoy Christmas.

I have always tried to educate my children to ask questions and not to just outright believe what they are told, even by me. If this makes them sceptics then good. I myself find it difficult to cross the line into belief of something that I personally cannot see the basis of but that doesn't effect the joy a child has in learning the world around them. That joy and wonder at finding something new is a thing that we adults can learn from.

Tim.

[dullbird]

isn't the bible full of stories to teach other about the ways of life:wasntme:

[Bushie]

Consider the following:

1) No known species of reindeer can fly. But there are 300,000 species of living organisms yet to be classified, and while most of these are insects and germs, this does not COMPLETELY rule out flying reindeer which only Santa has ever seen.

2) There are 2 billion children (persons under 18) in the world. BUT since Santa doesn't (appear) to handle the Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and Buddhist children, that reduces the workload to 15% of the total - 378 million according to Population Reference Bureau. At an average (census) rate of 3.5 children per household, that's 91.8 million homes. One presumes there's at least one good child in each.

3) Santa has 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he travels east to west (which seems logical).

This works out to 822.6 visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household with good children, Santa has 1/1000th of a second to park, hop out of the sleigh, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left, get back up the chimney, get back into the sleigh and move on to the next house.

Assuming that each of these 91.8 million stops are evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course, we know to be false but for the purposes of our calculations we will accept), we are now talking about .78 miles per household, a total trip of 75-1/2 million miles, not counting stops to do what most of us must do at least once every 31 hours, plus feeding and etc.

This means that Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second, 3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest man- made vehicle on earth, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per second - a conventional reindeer can run, tops, 15 miles per hour.

4) The payload on the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium-sized lego set (2 pounds), the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting Santa, who is invariably described as overweight.

On land, conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting that 'flying reindeer' (see point #1) could pull TEN TIMES the normal amount, we cannot do the job with eight, or even nine.

We need 214,200 reindeer. This increases the payload - not even counting the weight of the sleigh - to 353,430 tons. Again, for comparison - this is four times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth.

5) 353,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air resistance - this will heat the reindeer up in the same fashion as spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy. Per second. Each.

In short, they will burst into flame almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them, and create deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire reindeer team will be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second.

Santa, meanwhile, will be subjected to centrifugal forces 17,500.06 times greater than gravity. A 250-pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of his sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force.> In conclusion - If Santa ever DID deliver presents on Christmas Eve, he's dead now.


Beat me by *that much*

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/24615-xmas-sexism.html#post365568


Martyn

[isuzurover]

We haven't had kids yet, but there is no way we will be trying to get them to believe in mythical people/creatures (apart from the FSM of course ;) ).

We were taught the truth, but told not to ruin it for the other kids.

[DiscoStew]

Parents lie and tell their kid there is a Santa, then wonder when they grow up they do not believe their is a god, and so these kids grow up to become ardent skeptics, who will not believe anything even when the evidence says it exists. "Train up a child in the way that he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it." Proverbs 22:6.

As recently as the middle of the last century the idea of Santa was very prevalent yet belief in god was very strong. More recently with the advent of children receiving information much younger there is less belief in Santa and yet there is also less belief in god.

Perhaps teaching children to have faith in Santa actually helps them have faith in other non-physical beings as well.

[series3]

If santa visits 91.8 million homes, that means that the poor guy also has to also eat 91.8 million biscuits, and drink 91.8 million glasses of milk. 91.8 million middies of milk equates to 26,163,000 litres (i think).

No wonder hes slightly obese:p

[mike 90 RR]

It's May....and we are discussing Christmas already?? :confused:

.... surely you remembered ... Christmas in July :o

Mike
:p

[George130]

My kids believe in Santa.
My memories of the elaborate traps we would build to catch santa and my dad constantly setting them off to laugh at us and claim he was just checking we were ok are worth it.

I even still remember my grandad's trick. He would wait till all us kids went to bed and then go out and let of a blank shell from his shotgun, walk back in claiming he got him that time and santa won't dare be back again. Sounds like a cruel joke but it definatly added to the excitement of christmas once we finally fell asleep.

I'm happy for people to not tell their kids but don't ruin it for mine.