advice needed

[wallie]

Hi, I'm a new member and was wondering if anyone can help with some info?

I have series III station wagon that I am currently restoring. It has a FORD crossflow motor, was curious to know how it would perform with a 2.25 diesel.

I'm looking to return it to as close to original as I can. Should be much better on the gearbox and running gear.

[incisor]

hi

long as you can handle "slow" it will be fine.. will be fine with one in it but with 5 in it you will be taking your time so to speak...

the crossflow conversions are usually a pretty good thing, esp if you have a toro overdrive...

[wallie]

thanks for that :)

would a 2.25 petrol be better?????

[djam1]

In a wagon a 2.25 Diesel was veerryy slow the 2.25 Petrol was ok at best.
The Ford I would of thought would be a good thing provided the gearbox was good and you did something with the gearing.

[wallie]

im unaware of how the vechile performs with the ford motor as i brought it with a shattered gear box which is currently being rebuilt. would prefer not to repeat the drama myself :)

thanks for your help

[Savanahkelpy]

The 2,25 diesel is a slow reving long stroke motor, with indirect injection, precombustion chambers, no turbo, and a narrow rev range for its best power and torque. The toro overdrive gearbox is strong enough to be used as a splitter, allowing you to keep the motor in the right rev range to let it work.
Yes, they are slow on the road, compared to modern vehicles, but they pulled like a small ox. Under a heavy load, they refuse to die, and a well tuned example will pull from almost an idle, if you are in the right gearing for the situation. The toro does improve your fuel economy, mostly by keeping the motor in its power band. This was a combination i had in my series 3 swb hardtop, for about 15 yrs. Its definetly, a work horse setup, not a show pony cruiser.

[Blknight.aus]

even the poorly tuned ones run like a glacier, slow but hard to stop...

if you get one get the crank rods and pistons matched up and balanced as best you can afford it..

if your brissy/ipswich way your welcome to come and have a look at fozzy with my $1K everyshortcuttaken rebuild special that I now have to regasket and post CCCCC probabley redo the rings.


summating what the others have said.

If youve never had one before the 2.25 diesel in stock trim is going to introduce you to a whole new world of slow.

[wallie]

just out of curiousity how slow is slow? could you cruise on 80 to 90kph and would it be better in the bush

[JDNSW]

The 2,25 diesel is a slow reving long stroke motor, with indirect injection, precombustion chambers, no turbo, and a narrow rev range for its best power and torque. ........

I question this description of the engine. It is oversquare (Bore 90.49mm and stroke 88.9mm) so I am at a loss to see how this can be described as "long stroke". It is hardly slow revving - with governed rpm of 4000, it revs higher than most similar sized diesels today. And with a spread of 1750rpm for maximum torque to 4000rpm for maximum power, it is hard to see how you can say it has a narrow rev range for best power and torque. My experience is that the engine pulls with usable torque from stalling speed, perhaps 500rpm to governed maximum of 4000rpm, without any pronounced peak - I first used this engine in the Simpson Desert 45 years ago and the wide range of useful power was invaluable for getting over sandhills.

The rest of the description is pretty accurate, though. The big shortcoming is that even in 1961 when the engine was enlarged from 2.0 to 2.25 litres (and the maximum rpm increased from 3500 to 4000) the maximum power of 62bhp and torque of 103lb.ft. were not really adequate for the long wheelbase models. It is simply this low power and torque that is the problem, not the revs at which they are developed! Consider that the current defender 110 with a very similar vehicle mass (and identical shape) has double the power (albeit at lower rpm - 3500) and two and a half times the torque (albeit at a higher rpm - 2000) - and they are not generally considered high performance!

John

[haggisbasher]

hehehe Brings back memories now..... had a 1970 sIIa swb diesel back home for 8 years. Without an o/d it was a 40 mph cruiser :( wit the o/d it got to 50 mph cruiser! Yes... took a while to ge tthere but did!

Mates used to give me some hassle over it and it... ahem... performance. Fixed it by saying..... so can you tow a broken down Shogun (Pajero) at 40 mph comfortable? It could not be killed...... and just ran. Even towed out a relative's perkins powered Rangie when it got stuck!


Ahhh many greta memories of Lawrence.... god bless 'im!

Chris

[Savanahkelpy]

just out of curiousity how slow is slow? could you cruise on 80 to 90kph and would it be better in the bush

80kph was "doable",,90kph is pushing, hopefully, with a tailwind or downhill,:D,, at 70kph, open highway,,like western qld country roads with sparse traffic, the motor still pulled well, in overdrive, but ticked over like a sewing machine, and got around 32 mpg,,(old figures).

[wallie]

would the petrol be a better option? any advice would be appreciated

[Sleepy]

My 109D is flat out at about 80 to 90kmh. I have an overdrive, so can wind it up to 100kmh but not really comfortable at those speeds.

As long as your not in a hurry, it is a great motor.

It's noisey though.:eek:

Can't speak for the petrol - haven't owned one. (yet ;))

[Newbs-IIA]

I have a 2.25 Petrol in my IIA, it has been rebuilt around 10 years ago with extractors and holden carby but is probably in an average state of tune at the moment after sitting unused for 5 years

Saying that she cruises great at 40mph and will get to 52mph however i think my speedo is not geared properly for the 7.50R16s so maybe even faster :o It is very slow and gutless arond town but it does eventually get to speed - don't like going up hills though :(

Low range makes up for everything :D I love being able to climb a tree in low first at idle :D :D :D

[Newbs-IIA]

I have no overdrive by the way and haven't driven it on a highway yet so i am hoping to get to 55mph+

That toro ovedrive sounds good, I would get one to use it like a split diff on a truck for the novelty :p

To quote Jeremy from Top Gear, "right there's first, 1.5, second, 2.5, 3" whilst driving a semi on the truck challenge hahahaha

[rijidij]

My first Landy was a 2.25 diesel. Yes, they are slow and noisy on the road, but once you turn off the bitumen they are where they are meant to be. Even just driving on a flat gravel road, they seem to go the perfect speed.

Cheers Murray

[JDNSW]

would the petrol be a better option? any advice would be appreciated

The petrol engine is certainly more driveable than the diesel, and also it is quite possible to get a worthwhile improvement in performance by mild tuning. (although note that most examples will benefit from being brought to standard spec - e.g. timing, ignition components in good shape, wear on distributor rectified, working thermostat, carbie in good shape, tyre pressure right etc)

My lwb unless heavily loaded will cruise, albeit a bit noisily, at 100kph, but will lose speed on any hill worthy of the name. But drop back to 90, not only a lot quieter, but also fuel economy is better. Drop back to 80, and you will keep the speed on most hills, and furthermore, you may even approach 14l/100km, compared to the more normal 18-20l/100km.

John

[Rangier Rover]

If I were you I'd leave the 250 in it. They are my next pick from a Hemi in a series. Fix the box and don't floor it in 1st at all,3rd for to long or reverse at all and the series box will take it. You can give them hell in 2nd and 4th all day. In the late 80s we ran a Tuboed 202 in a 109 this way and only smashed one box doing a flat change to 3rd trying to drag race an XU1:angel:
Still run series here now and if the box is treated right they are very durable.
Why would you want to go back to a Rover diesel:confused: They are a great pluger but not to much fun over long distance.

The 2.25 petrol will send you broke in fuel usage if driven hard. 80kmh +
The 250 ford will likely do around 25mpg if driven sensibly.

Tony

[wallie]

maybe i should just stay with the xflow?

[Newbs-IIA]

If I were you I'd leave the 250 in it. They are my next pick from a Hemi in a series. Fix the box and don't floor it in 1st at all,3rd for to long or reverse at all and the series box will take it. You can give them hell in 2nd and 4th all day. In the late 80s we ran a Tuboed 202 in a 109 this way and only smashed one box doing a flat change to 3rd trying to drag race an XU1:angel:
Still run series here now and if the box is treated right they are very durable.
Why would you want to go back to a Rover diesel:confused: They are a great pluger but not to much fun over long distance.

The 2.25 petrol will send you broke in fuel usage if driven hard. 80kmh +
The 250 ford will likely do around 25mpg if driven sensibly.

Tony
Totally agree about the HEMI 6, that motor has huge potential in a 4WD. Would be my pick every time over a red motor. Saying that there just isn't enough of them around for it to be a relyable swap and have good acess to parts.

Great engine, 245 or 265 (or the baby 215 :p)

[Grover-98]

Hey guys i have got first dids on a Series 111 Safari with a 2.25 Diesel motor. After reading this i have gathered they are a work horse and not built for speed which i can handle :) and are great in the scrub which is my main interest with this 4x4 as i already have a Tidy 300tdi D1 to get me around the city :)

Just curious on figures such as diesel consumption doing general around town work as i will not be taking it on the highway. i think i read somewhere 9L Per 100K but that seemed rather optimistic? or are they really that polite to your wallet? Also how are they to live with? reliable? The one i am looking at has been well looked after and is a friend of a friends so i know what im told is not from a Danoz add ;)...

Sorry to hijack the thread but i only request a moment of stage time, also what is a going price for one of these? i am sure its broad all i know is this one is running out of reg in a month as is in good nic and has been looked after. :)

Cheers guys! oh its a shorty.