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LavisLane
2nd June 2009, 04:38 PM
Hey all,

I need to get new bags for my P38 soon, so thinking i might as well go all out and get the Arnotts Gen III's with the Bilsteins and spacers for maximum lift.

Hoping that those of your hardcore suspension monsters out there can answer a couple of questions;

1) Does this have any negative affect on normal urban driving. Guessing the opposite but i'm unsure on wether it changes the "normal" setting height...

2) Does anyone know a good contact to fit them in Sydney metro area?

3) With the aussie dollar looking so good, it might be worth getting them from Arnott direct rather than someone like Hard Range. I'd rather support the Aussies though - anyone had any experience with this?

So many questions, so little money...:cool:

Thanks,

David

p38arover
2nd June 2009, 05:51 PM
2) Does anyone know a good contact to fit them in Sydney metro area?


Air suspension bellows are easy to fit yourself.

andrew e
2nd June 2009, 10:25 PM
Sam from Rangeland is a mobile sydney based mechanic and he is very resonable with prices. His wife also drives a p38 which he rebuilt, so he is one of us. Phone #0410664194

what parts exactly are you after, I can get you a price too.

Andy

PaulP38a
2nd June 2009, 11:51 PM
Hey all,

I need to get new bags for my P38 soon, so thinking i might as well go all out and get the Arnotts Gen III's with the Bilsteins and spacers for maximum lift.

Hoping that those of your hardcore suspension monsters out there can answer a couple of questions;

1) Does this have any negative affect on normal urban driving. Guessing the opposite but i'm unsure on wether it changes the "normal" setting height...

Gen III's and standard Bilsteins only - better ride around town no doubt. better ride off-road.
Gen III's, 2" lift and extended Bilsteins (per HRA kit) - harder to fit in to underground car parks or garage at home... tendency to wander a bit more depending on tyres... more travel on the airsprings means more body roll when doing sideway drifts around sweeping bends with the Skylines :p
Probably a good idea to upgrade your steering damper at the same time. Off-road - absolutely-flamin-cruiserandpatroleating-brilliant. :cool:



2) Does anyone know a good contact to fit them in Sydney metro area?

I heard a rumour that Ron likes red wine :wasntme:



3) With the aussie dollar looking so good, it might be worth getting them from Arnott direct rather than someone like Hard Range. I'd rather support the Aussies though - anyone had any experience with this?

I bought some Gen III's direct from Arnott last year when the dollar was strong. Fortunately I had no problems in the short time I had them up until the Rangie was written off with them on it :(
My replacement Rangie already had the Gen III's fitted (as part of the HRA kit), but if I decide to replace them I will buy them from HRA. I think it's worth the bit extra to support the local guy, and to get support from within Oz.
Cheers, Paul.

LavisLane
3rd June 2009, 10:15 AM
Thanks all,

I'm definitely leaning towards the Gen III's with Bilsteins but might hold off on the 2" lift as unfortunately i do alot more city driving than off road. I don't want to give up my P38 drifting badge yet either ;)

I think i'll go Aussie too - happier to support the locals over the septics

Andrew E - Do you have access to Sydney pricing on this kind of setup?

Cheers,

David

Hoges
7th June 2009, 10:27 PM
A constant 2" lift is a lot considering the standard dynamics of the vehicle. I'm also wondering what liability you might take on if something untoward were to happen and the 2" lift was regarded as an unauthorised modification.... contributing to instability of the vehicle...

I often see Hilux's (especially) with significantly obvious lift + oversized tyres, tearing up /down the highway between Bris and the Sunshine Coast ... they appear to be inordinately unstable. The habits of those driving them tend to confirm the suspension mods...if you take my drift

The 30mm or so automatic EAS height reduction from standard height in the P38 for speeds >80 kph was done for a purpose ...

Other than for some obscure notion that a 2" lift "looks tough" :eek: (sorry) why would you put yourself/passengers and others at greater risk of a serious bingle by screwing with the "approved" EAS design.

Please accept that my intention is not to "have a go" ...I am genuinely curious as to why an extra 2" "constant height" adjustment is so important in relatively rare / extreme cases of off road challlenges and whether it's worth the significantly increased risk of an accident in day to day driving...

PaulP38a
7th June 2009, 11:31 PM
You make some valid points Hoges, and as a driver of one of these lifted vehicles, I don't take offence at all.

Having had a stock height P38A and then a lifted one, I definately noticed the difference between the two in terms of handling. Both had Gen III air-springs and Bilstein shocks so the main difference was the 2" lift kit... oh, and tyres.

Around town, I tend to lock the height at standard mode as I like the improved visibility and most of my driving is less than 100Kph.

Fortunately the current P38A with the 2" lift handles pretty well around town on standard height, and is ok on high height.
Even on the motorway, with the height on highway mode it handles reasonably well. Mind you I haven't attempted any high speed swerves.
I have been known to raise the height to standard mode on the highway when some pratt won't move out of the RH lane... in order to get my headlights lined up in his/her mirrors better :wasntme:
I don't do a lot of highway driving in the lifted P38A so I can put up with the reduced handling compared to my previous one. My toy is mainly for about-town driving and playing off-road so I'm pretty happy with the set-up.

The extra 2" has been quite helpful off-road. Obviously the diffs are still the lowest point, but break-over angle is improved to a point where the Rangie can climb over most mounds that my Suzuki does with ease :cool:

Thinking about it (and I acknowledge that my memory may not be that good) I don't think the handling of my current P38A (with Bilsteins and Arnott Gen III's) is actually any worse than my old one when it still had stock air-springs and shocks.

Occassionally I see a Hilux or Cruiser that sits higher than mine and I also wonder about the stability of such vehicles, especially if they are overtaking me at 110Kph+

Romulus
9th June 2009, 06:52 AM
I recently had the latest OEM air bags fitted with Bilstein shockers and steering damper, made a huge difference to the handling of the vehicle.
I guess unless you're going to do some pretty challenging off roading in your P38, a 2" lift would not make much sense.

In fact, since I have 18" mags fitted with Coopers tyres, I lowered the 'standard' riding height of the air suspension by 15mm, all other settings are untouched.

LavisLane
9th June 2009, 01:11 PM
Some valuable information here, thanks all.

The 2" lift was an after thought for me. My bags and suspension are on the way out so after looking at replacement options, it seems that the arnotts gen III's and Bilstiens are a winner. The 2" lift option with these seems like a nice addition but i've never been too sure about the exact position changes after the installation. I'd hoped that the lift just added another 2" in the high setting but all other heights stayed as is, meaning no one would know there was a lift unless i raised it to full height to get over obstacles.

I'm not interested in changing the look of my P38 to a lifted beast as it doesn't really suit the way I use it. I wish it was a "toy" like Pauls! The disco's look great lifted but i like my P38 as is.

So, maybe i just need to update the bags and shocks without the lift as i really only need a replacement setup...

Thanks all,

David

PaulP38a
9th June 2009, 10:46 PM
Some valuable information here, thanks all.

The 2" lift was an after thought for me. My bags and suspension are on the way out so after looking at replacement options, it seems that the arnotts gen III's and Bilstiens are a winner. The 2" lift option with these seems like a nice addition but i've never been too sure about the exact position changes after the installation. I'd hoped that the lift just added another 2" in the high setting but all other heights stayed as is, meaning no one would know there was a lift unless i raised it to full height to get over obstacles.

I'm not interested in changing the look of my P38 to a lifted beast as it doesn't really suit the way I use it. I wish it was a "toy" like Pauls! The disco's look great lifted but i like my P38 as is.

So, maybe i just need to update the bags and shocks without the lift as i really only need a replacement setup...

Thanks all,

David

David - if you're going the Gen III's and Bilsteins I believe you can get an extra 25-50mm of lift without max'ing out either of them, just by adjusting your "High" mode height with EASunlock or a FaultMate... someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Do a search through the posts on here or check out the Suspension pages on rangerovers.net... I think it can be done.

The beauty of doing this is if you don't like it, just put the settings back to where they were (assuming you noted them down before changing them in the first place) :o

The downside of this is if you do bottom out on the new High mode, the (non-selectable) Extended mode may not lift you that extra 25(50?)mm... but this might give you what you want... a stock looking Rangie that goes just that bit higher on-demand.

The 2" lft on mine was done by the PO so he could run 33" muddies. Most of the time I run with my road wheels and tyres - 18" rims with 30.5" Cooper H/T's which don't require the lift.

Cheers, Paul.

LavisLane
10th June 2009, 08:13 AM
Ok, i think that's the way to go... Bilstiens, Gen III's (no 2" lift)

Will update as this evolves...

It's certainly a long a slippery slope once the upgrades start ;):eek:;)

Romulus
10th June 2009, 08:28 AM
yep, I reckon thats the way to go.
I swear by Bilsteins, first set I had was on my old Disco 1 which also had a 2" lift with new springs, was awesome, especially off road and improved handling and body roll even with a 2" lift!

Remy
11th June 2009, 07:10 AM
Each to there own!
Don't get me wrong but i have also be drawn into the Bilsteins change and purchased some a few months ago and replaced my standards (which were ok). The BILSTEINS do reduce body roll and the ride is certainly stiffer. I guess it depends on what you are after. The RR classics were known for their soft plush ride and one of the criticisms of the P38 when it first arrived on the market was that this was lost with its suspension setup (Harsher too a small extent). The Blisteins enhance this even more so rather than a soft plush ride you tend to feel the bumps a bit more but probably gain a bit of control and handling out of this. I don't mind this and will keep mine on but i would suggest taking a ride in one first. Of course if you are replacing everything then your suspension is going to be NEW and will of course feel better than one that was worn out.

I would love a set of GEN3 bags but cannot bring myself to part with the money although the $$$ is getting better. Certainly there seems to be a good design reason to change. Let us know if you do get them and what they cost you when you do.

LavisLane
17th June 2009, 06:43 AM
Thanks Remy, this throws things out a little... my current suspension feels every bump in the road and it's not the smoothest ride. I'm sure this is due to old suspension and as you say, should improve with any update. I'm confident with the current level of handling so would only get the Bilsteins if they were an improvement in both handling AND comfort. Not so sure now....??

p38arover
17th June 2009, 07:21 AM
The RR classics were known for their soft plush ride and one of the criticisms of the P38 when it first arrived on the market was that this was lost with its suspension setup (Harsher too a small extent).

I heard the story that later the P38A used a different shaped piston in the air suspension thus giving a different rate. I've not had the opportunity to examine the early and late model pistons. I note my early ones use aluminium pistons and later ones use fibre filled plastic.

ytt105
17th June 2009, 02:34 PM
Just my 2 cents worth.

I had a RRC air sprung with Billies and thought it road too hard, even after replacing the air bags.

Bought a P38 with worn out suspension, put new bags and new Boge shocks, I think they were an OEM supplier, and it rides much better than the Classic did. Back to what a Rangie should do.

Handling is so far in front of most other 4x4 that I don't think it needs any improvement

Hoges
21st June 2009, 09:53 PM
I agree with ytt105 ...

Replaced my airbags with a standard LR OEM set... they did have both the "Ford" AND the LR trademark logo stamped on them... :eek: Front ones had metallic bands to seal them top and bottom (like the Arnotts), rears are standard bellows.

I also fitted Armstrong Heavy track adjustables... bad move. :mad:

Every bump transmitted 10x fold. So I eventually changed out the shocks for standard oil filled OEMs...not sure what brand,,, but they has the LR logo and are made n Spain! (and about 1/4 price of the Armstrongs!).

the improvement in the ride is amazing... even on Qld's broken bitumen tracks that pass for major highways are now a reasonable ride ...doesn't pay (in my opinion) to screw with (some) original designs!

p38arover
21st June 2009, 09:56 PM
Every bump transmitted 10x fold. So I eventually changed out the shocks for standard oil filled OEMs...not sure what brand,,, but they has the LR logo and are made n Spain! (and about 1/4 price of the Armstrongs!).

Probably Boge.

I fitted Armstrongs but they were the direct replacements for OEM and were only $200 for the set of 4 (off eVilBay).

Benzinvernichter
24th June 2009, 06:12 AM
Just some X-Info from me:

I replaced the bags with "original" ones from airagman but decided against Bilstein and got Konis. They're not cheap but are adjustable.

When it comes to the decision with my new-to-me 4.6 HSE I'll go the route with genIII an Koni.

Peter
Switzerland
2000 RR 4.6 HSE
ex '96 RR 4.0 SE

pgf
3rd July 2009, 11:02 PM
Hi There, I too am looking at suhc upgrades. I wnet to check out hard range website but they're gone... any ideas?
PGF

tasi devil
3rd July 2009, 11:42 PM
deleted...meant to include quote

tasi devil
3rd July 2009, 11:42 PM
Hi There, I too am looking at suhc upgrades. I wnet to check out hard range website but they're gone... any ideas?
PGF

Hard Range Australia (http://www.hra4x4.com.au/)

PaulP38a
4th July 2009, 10:36 AM
Hi There, I too am looking at suhc upgrades. I wnet to check out hard range website but they're gone... any ideas?
PGF

this link (http://www.hra4x4.com.au/) still works for me