Rusty bits on new Defender

[chumpion]

Morning All - this is my first post about my new Defender.

We picked it up last Saturday from Parramatta (brand new March 09 build with 30km's on it), and noticed there were a lot of rusty bits and pieces under the vehicle. Most of the steering arm joints are rusty, the diff cover bolts are rusty, the joints on the drive lines seem a bit rusty, even bits of the brakes are rusty.

We looked at another Defender in the lot, and it was exactly the same.

We also looked at the Freelanders/ Disco's and Range Rovers, and they were not like that.

The car is stock standard - not even a bull bar installed (yet..)

The car yard assured us that it was normal, so we noted it down on the documentation, got a promise the Service Manager would call us first thing Monday morning, and drove off. It's now Friday, and we haven't heard anything.....

My question is - is this normal? Some bolts are rusty, and some aren't, which seems bizzare. Yeah, it is surface rust, but that can't be good in the long run, can it? Do any other new Defender owners have the same problem?

Other than that, we love the car. It's our second Defender, 4th Land Rover, and can't wait to get out this weekend in it (Lithgow here we come!).

[p38arover]

Leaking oil will soon coat the bolts so there is no need to worry. :D

[solmanic]

Sounds like the journey over here might have been on the deck of the ship.

[juddy]

No they always travel in the inside of the ship, more likey they have been stored out side for months on end....

[spudboy]

Mine was sprayed underneath all over with evil black goop from the factory. One small spec can decimate a white TShirt :eek:

I had heard they stopped doing this, but from your experience it looks like they should reinstate it.

Hopefully the dealer will be able to spray it with something to protect it.

[dullbird]

I would be taking photo's of everything in which you are concerned about....for your documentation as well. And I would be riging the dealer and asking why you have not yet been contacted...

[scott oz]

All the best.

I’m in the process of replacing all my screws nuts bolts and washers with stainless (SS). If I take something off I replace with SS unless it requires high tensile.

I’ve found so far the floor and trim screws/bolts have suffered the worst. The door hinge bolts (at the pillar) had one with particularly bad rust.

Welcome to the LR experience all good fun if you like tinkering.

[rar110]

I rebuilt my 1989 110 with all new zinc coated bolts. I live pretty close to the bay and after 4 years most are rusting. As above am in the process of replacing with stainless. Next job will be the sill bolts and a-pillar bolts holding the door strap plate.

Even my stainless aerial rusted.

lucky the chassis is galed.

[chumpion]

Yeah - just got off the phone from them (they called me - maybe they read this forum....).

Anyways, I'm taking it in on to Land Rover on Tuesday to put it up on the hoist and take a few photo's. Apparently this is something they are starting to see a bit - the Service Manager mentioned the black goop not being applied any more, and more corrosive parts being seen.

I'll keep the forum updated - and I guess if anyone else is experiencing something similar, they could let me know.

[chumpion]

I rebuilt my 1989 110 with all new zinc coated bolts. I live pretty close to the bay and after 4 years most are rusting. As above am in the process of replacing with stainless. Next job will be the sill bolts and a-pillar bolts holding the door strap plate.

Even my stainless aerial rusted.

lucky the chassis is galed.

lol - that sucks a bit, but I guess thats the price of living near the ocean....

This vehicle is 1 week old though - and only built 2 months ago. I guess the 6 year corrosion warranty is a good thing now....

[spudboy]

... the Service Manager mentioned the black goop not being applied any more, and more corrosive parts being seen.



An accountant probably worked out they could save 5 pounds per car by not spraying it. Good thinking - not :(

[sashadidi]

my 1 year old one has a little rust like described, I cleaned it up and applied Corrsion x (used in aircraft) on all exposed threads and then used anti chip coating on chassis, underside using a underbody gun and oil inside chassis
better than the black gung because you can see if any chips and rust forming where as with the black stuff on the old TD5 it was hiden away more
No doubt was a cost saving measure at the factory

[101 Ron]

I heard the new defenders were brought to Australia on the cheap as deck cargo on a submarine...:p:p:p:p:p
Seriously I was walking though a car yard looking at a new cab chassis ford ute and it was greatly affected by surface rust on unplated nuts and bolts etc.
Landrovers are not the only ones going cheepo on the painting

[Allan]

I was told by Bias Marine that stainless steel bolts/rivets are alloys worst enemy. A small hole today will be a big hole next year!

Allan

[flagg]

I was told by Bias Marine that stainless steel bolts/rivets are alloys worst enemy. A small hole today will be a big hole next year!

Allan

Interesting, can you explain this a little more? Is it some kind of electrosomethingorother? :angel:

[Bundalene]

From experience and reading others comments the area of most concern regarding corrosion is in the firewall, between the spot welded seams. Very difficult to see.

Erich

[Blknight.aus]

yep its electrolysis

in the uber layman terms...

different metals have different charge properties. the further apart the difference the quicker they attack each other and one looses.

Stainless steel beats aluminum every time.

IF it wasn't for this phenomenon we wouldn't have batteries.

[JDNSW]

I was told by Bias Marine that stainless steel bolts/rivets are alloys worst enemy. A small hole today will be a big hole next year!

Allan

Not quite worst - copper or brass/bronzeare worse, but stainless steel in contact with aluminium or its alloys is a recipe for disaster - and it won't be the stainless that is affected! Any marine place will tell you the same. As Dave says, it is simply that you have formed an electrolytic cell.

If you use stainless steel bolts on a Landrover, you must ensure that they are not in electrical contact with any aluminium panels, using nylon washers and sleeves which you should be able to get from any marine chandler.

In my view galvanised fasteners are superior as the galvanising prevents the steel from affecting the aluminium.

John

[slt]

Hmmm, mine came off that very same ship ... :o I'm heading down into the garage right now for a squizz :eek:

[BilboBoggles]

Don't look at the welds on the chassis.... I think you'll find the paint has cracked on all of the welds and the bare metal is showing and rusting. I was lucky that mine came straight off the ship, and was rust free, and the first day I got it home I sprayed all over underneath with Tectyl Wax before it had a chance to rust. (Unfortunatley Landrover won't fix this issue, it would be very expensive to replace the chassis.)

Also don't take a good look at the paint on the rear crossmember which I think you will find is not finished correctly and has already oxidised. In fact the paint is so thin that after about 3 years it will dissapear and the rear cross member will be covered in surface rust. This happened on my 5 year old TD5, but Landrover repainted the rear of the chassis. The paint on the PUMA chasis is exactly the same poor quallity. If yours is showing signs of oxidisation ie is slightly white but goes black when you touch it, then get Land Rover to repaint it.

[slt]

Well now I've got black gooey hands and knees, and yep, similar story. Light oxydisation on exposed steel nuts and bolts, primarily on the diff housing and steering arm joints. Other areas of the chassis looked weirldy rusty, but are actually some orangy paint or something. Having owned one before, I don't think it's something I'll loose sleep over for now ... at least no signs of oil leakage yet ;)

Be interesting to hear what your (our) dealer has to say about it. Keep us posted please.

slt

[scarry]

Juniors was the same as yours,rust everywhere.His is also 09.Parts of the chassis were very rusty,particularly the welds at the front.There was also paint scratched off here & there.Paint was very thin.They left front guard also sagged & did not line up with the bumper when you looked at the vehicle from the front:( ,if you can understand what i mean.

Also the paint inside the plastic wheel arch flares is now coming off,you can scratch it off with your fingernail:(they didnt notice that,and we didnt until we got it back

Anyway off to Austral it went for a week,they sent it out & have painted most of the chassis,and packed the left guard with washers to get it level:eek:





The loan D3 was nice:D:)

[slt]

On a positive note, on my way back I looked into my mail box, only to find my 'Welcome to the World of Land Rover' pack. Included was a stainless steel/chrome plated luggage tag ... and not a speck of rust :cool:

[BigJon]

Light oxydisation on exposed steel nuts and bolts,


I reckon the word you are looking for there is "oxidation". :p:p

[one_iota]

yep its electrolysis

in the uber layman terms...

different metals have different charge properties. the further apart the difference the quicker they attack each other and one looses.

Stainless steel beats aluminum every time.

IF it wasn't for this phenomenon we wouldn't have batteries.

To add to this there is a useful explanation of galvanic corrosion and table here:

Galvanic Table (http://www.auf.asn.au/scratchbuilder/galvanic_table.html)

[sashadidi]

To add to this there is a useful explanation of galvanic corrosion and table here:

Galvanic Table (http://www.auf.asn.au/scratchbuilder/galvanic_table.html)
the corrison x I used was recommended by an Helicopter enginner who works in malaysia and they use thison the airframes in the humid conditions to slow the oxidation process down and helps to make bolts etc come undone quicker
CorrosionX (http://www.corrosionx.com/marine.html)

[frantic]

Previously ( like 15yrs+ ago) all imports had a coat off wax underneath and in the engine bay that was removed by the dealer as soon as it got off the truck. This would actually cost money and was part off the dealer delivery charges, by the sound off it they are scrapping this practice to quicken up delivery and reduce costs! Also the cars are now all being shipped to port Kembla as opposed to botany next to Australia's biggest steelworks and left out in the open for extended periods, salt water and iron particlulate fallout anyone;)?
I found out the hard way about wax as a trainee salesman(2 decades ago) took a young couple out on a test drive in a barina that had just got delivered to dealership on friday arvo, the wax doesnt smoke till its hot so when we got back it looked like the motor was on fire:firedevil: with smoke everywhere, no flames luckily, the detailers had not bothered to tell us they had a POETS and left the barina for monday to clean!
Thank god I left that job and moved to greener pastures!

[scott oz]

So Stainless nuts and bolts with nylon washers? I gather this provides the necessary insulation/seperation

[scarry]

On a positive note, on my way back I looked into my mail box, only to find my 'Welcome to the World of Land Rover' pack. Included was a stainless steel/chrome plated luggage tag ... and not a speck of rust :cool:

One appeared in our letterbox as well,probably cheap chinese thingy,certainly looks better quality than the paint job on the Fender chassis:D:p:angel:

[JDNSW]

So Stainless nuts and bolts with nylon washers? I gather this provides the necessary insulation/seperation

Yes, or galvanised (not zinc plated - that is too thin) bolts and nuts.

John

[Scouse]

I'll keep the forum updated Any updates on this at all?

[spudfan]

Just a thought. Maybe Land Rover stopped putting on the waxy stuff on the advice from their insurers. In the event of the vehicle catching fire I wonder how a heavily waxed chassis would react? I know a Land Rover chassis is usually clattered in oily stuff but this was not put there by the manufacturer on purpose. In these strange times I would not be surprised if there was not some daft reason like the above for the lack of treatment on the chassis.
I painted my chassis three times then waxoiled the inside of it. Also bumped my head off a few parts underneath which should ensure a coating of grease if nothing else!
A note of caution. I heavily waxoiled a chassis on a 200tdi. It failed the mot because the mechanic could not read the chassis number. Had to book it in again after I had cleaned the bit where the number is.

[chumpion]

Just a quick update - Trivett's offered to rub back all the rusty bits, and coat with something for me, but asked if I could wait until the first service before doing it to see if it was just surface rust.

I agreed, but now it's in the shop permanantly in limp-home mode, I might jump up and down a bit and see what I can get done.

The plus side is that the rust is noted on the delivery documentation, so in a couple of years time I can come back to them and show them it was an original problem.....

[Grockle]

spud.the pumas now have a clear plastic sheet over the chassis no., it just stops that bit rusting !, LR have stopped rust proofing as a cost cutting measure.

[justinc]

This returning to its natural state and electron shedding seems to be the norm with the later Td5's and now Puma models. All I have seen are the same. Poor finish and zero anti-rust must be in vogue.:(.

JC