Speed and red light cameras banned in US

[Captain_Rightfoot]

As evidence mounts that photo enforcement is a flawed concept, Maine has become the 14th state in the United States to ban the use of red light cameras and speed cameras.

Read about it here (http://wheelsmag.com.au/News/Photo+enforcement+blamed+and+banned.html?open&template=domWheels).

"While on the surface these cameras may appear to increase public safety, recent studies have shown that they actually increase the occurrences of accidents at intersections where the public is aware that there is a camera," State representative Rich Cebra said in a statement.

"The placement of these cameras is also a civil rights issue, creating the issuing of a summons and possible fines and jail time to the owner of a vehicle and not necessarily the actual driver of the vehicle. In many places around the country, these cameras have become nothing more than a money-maker for municipalities."

We have already seen that removing NT unlimited speed limits has resulted in an extra 16 people dying there in just one year (http://wheelsmag.com.au/Blogs/Lower+speed+limits+mean+more+deaths+in+NT+.html?op en&template=domWheels).

[Gold_TD5]

Sad fact is, a licence is not a certificate of competency.
Speeds Camera's and safety camera's which is what we have in Victoria,
generate revenue, driver education costs money.

[Sprint]

is driver education provided to the public free of charge though?

[harry]

is driver education provided to the public free of charge though?
no, they pay that in their insurance policies. or we that insure pay it for them.

[Bigbjorn]

Some years ago, a US state banned radar detectors and the State Police started hauling offenders into court. This stopped when the state's senior judge started dismissing charges. His published reasoning was that if any government in a democracy indulges in covert surveillance of the citizens, said government should not be surprised when the citizens take steps to become aware of any such surveillance.

[Hymie]

I had a driver in my Bus get pinged by a speed camera.
I filled out the Stat Dec and passed it over to him to fill out his details which he did, he also paid the fine.
Months later I received a letter telling me I had lost points for the infringement. I rang the department responsible and they sent me a form to have the points returned to my license and taken off the other guys.
Surprise surprise, after due consideration the appeal was rejected on insufficient grounds and I lose the points.
What ****es me off is that even though the points are eventually regained, the stain stay on my record.
If a copper had pulled him over and booked him, end of story.

[p38arover]

In NSW, the RTA are a law unto themselves.

One might get pinged, fined, and get demerit points but take it to court and have the charge dismissed.

The RTA, however, won't return your lost points. Thus, you may still lose your licence!

Motorists being driven into road rage - Metro & Regional - National - General - Queensland Country Life (http://qcl.farmonline.com.au/news/metro/national/general/motorists-being-driven-into-road-rage/1359236.aspx'storypage=0)


The other extraordinary anomaly with the demerit scheme is that, even if a motorist goes to court and has the driving offence dismissed under Section 10 (1) of the Crimes Act, only the fine is quashed. The RTA still imposes the demerit points and the licence is still lost.

See also: http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/hansart.nsf/V3Key/LA20040507014


It appears that courts in New South Wales have fewer powers than the RTA. It seems that once the RTA has decided to penalise an offender its ruling stands, regardless of the outcome of a legal appeal against the penalty imposed. I am a strong advocate of safe driving, and believe that we need a strong system of fines, demerit points and driver rewards to encourage and enforce good driver behaviour. I would certainly never advocate a passenger travelling in a vehicle without a seatbelt. However, I find it incredible that the RTA demerit points remain against a driver's name even when the court has found the driver was not responsible for his passengers not wearing a seatbelt. This young man has lost more than his driving freedom: he has lost his job. This situation will have a very negative impact on his future.

[Cap]

Comon, we all know that speed cameras etc are mainly for revenue raising, no surprises there. And true too that, when approaching an intersection, people will set their eyes on the speedo rather than the traffic in front!

[DeanoH]

........and safety camera's which is what we have in Victoria,
generate revenue, driver education costs money.

And the moon is made of green cheese.

It's a wonder there aren't more accidents in the under Yarra tunnels. You're so busy watching the speedo, and not the traffic on the down hill stretches it's amazing more people havn't been killed.

'Road safety cameras' my ar.................... er foot.

Deano

[Gold_TD5]

Good point DeanoH, the experts will tell you that a micro sleep can kill you.
I would go as far as to say that diverting your attention to your speedometer when you should be focusing on the road in front of you is as bad or worse than a micro sleep.
When I was learning to fly, my instructor told me, always fly the plane first take care of all the other issues second.
Coz if your not flying the plane, nothing else is going to matter.
The same could be said about driving a car.

[Mudsloth]

"The placement of these cameras is also a civil rights issue, creating the issuing of a summons and possible fines and jail time to the owner of a vehicle and not necessarily the actual driver of the vehicle. In many places around the country, these cameras have become nothing more than a money-maker for municipalities."

Right on, don't think this will ever happen here though, whatever happened to the old cat and mouse game hey?

[LSBob]

We have already seen that removing NT unlimited speed limits has resulted in an extra 16 people dying there in just one year (http://wheelsmag.com.au/Blogs/Lower+speed+limits+mean+more+deaths+in+NT+.html?op en&template=domWheels).


A false statement. This year the fatality rate is 13 while for the same time last year it was 30. source NT Police Police internet site (http://www.nt.gov.au/pfes/PFES/index.cfm?fuseaction=page&p=148)

2008 was higher than 2007 but 1987 was a lot higher. Also the majority of accidents happened in built up areas or were a single car accident on a bush road with a driver under the influence. Nothing to do with reducing the speed limit. Though some motorists complained that it was now more dangerous with the speed restrictions as it would take them longer to drive from Darwin to Alice Springs as they wanted to do it in a day --one driver - non stop except for a feed and fuel stop.

[C H T]

FWIW I read that when the Speed Cameras were turned off on the Westgate Bridge (because of malfunctions) injury accidents dropped by 60%. Quod Erat Demonstrandum which is Latin for I told you so!

CHT

PS Italy increased open road speed limits significantly - fatalities immediately dropped by something like 20%

[werdan]

It's interesting how that in the US, the local municipality is responsible for speeding fines instead of the state. The state can therefore ban the things and look like heroes to the people. Here, it's the states that enforce traffic infringements and it would take a federal act to ban them. Good luck with that.

[p38arover]

Here, it's the states that enforce traffic infringements and it would take a federal act to ban them. Good luck with that.

Under our constitution, I don't know that a Federal act would necessarily be binding on the States. Where's our resident constitutional lawyer? :D

[JDNSW]

Under our constitution, I don't know that a Federal act would necessarily be binding on the States. Where's our resident constitutional lawyer? :D

I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but I agree with you - I don't see anything in the constitution that would allow the commonwealth government to legislate in this area. Perhaps a bill of rights in the constitution might do so, but as it stands I can't see it.

For example, federal vehicle standards have no status in the territories or states until the state in question legislates to implement them, which would be in the same area of law.

John

[blitz]

FWIW I read that when the Speed Cameras were turned off on the Westgate Bridge (because of malfunctions) injury accidents dropped by 60%. Quod Erat Demonstrandum which is Latin for I told you so!

CHT

PS Italy increased open road speed limits significantly - fatalities immediately dropped by something like 20%

Quid Erat Demonstratum's literal translation is "Thus it is demonstrated"
but it still fits here :D No Ron I'm not trying to take your role - and I have probably spelt it wrong as well

[Bigbjorn]

PS Italy increased open road speed limits significantly - fatalities immediately dropped by something like 20%

I have driven in Italy. They are ****** crazy. From my observations they steer with their knees as one hand is blowing the horn and the other is giving the "horns of the cuckold" sign out the window. I remember seeing a large Italian mama and a short fat father in a $3000 suit with gold watch, gold cigarette holder, and three kids putting a three seater sofa on top of a Fiat 600 and then driving off flat out in the usual manner. First time there I was staggered to be doing 160 k's on the autostrada and getting flashes and horn blasts to get out of the way. Being passed at that speed by two carabinieri on motorcycles going considerably faster, with rifles slung across their backs. Then seeing them sitting having coffee in the next small town where we pulled off to eat. Must have been running late for their smoko.

[p38arover]

Quid Erat Demonstratum's literal translation is "Thus it is demonstrated"
but it still fits here :D No Ron I'm not trying to take your role - and I have probably spelt it wrong as well

Which is why I use the abbreviation: QED :D