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Savanahkelpy
25th June 2009, 04:56 PM
Yesterday, i went back to a camping/fishing spot, that i was last at over easter,,(see "bad camping ethics"), in hope of catching another fish or 2, to top off the last week of my holiday. little did i know that i would have to cut it short, this morning, in fear of my safety, and finaly ending up in the local plods office,( :nazilock:). No, i wasn,t in trouble, just stumbled on a drug crop, while it was being watered. :eek::eek::eek:. Never has walking away from a situation, in the bush, quietly and quickly, been such a difficult thing to do, as every step sounded like thunder, in my ears.
When you see one person, (grower or crop minder), you don,t know if they are alone or not, whether they are armed or not, or what their state of mind is like.
Had the shakes by the time i got back on to the main road.;):(
Laurie.

Mudsloth
25th June 2009, 04:57 PM
thats full on man

p38arover
25th June 2009, 04:59 PM
Ruddy heck! I'd have been wetting myself!

Savanahkelpy
25th June 2009, 05:09 PM
Think i,ll buy a gold lotto ticket, as he had his back to me, and i spotted him through foliage, about 15 mtrs away, got a good look at most of his pumping setup, :eek:, as that,s what alerted me. ( 12 v batteries littered everywhere), this was not a remote settlers household water supply pump, either.

The ho har's
25th June 2009, 05:16 PM
Gee remind me never to go camping where you go:(


Mrs ho har:angel:

Savanahkelpy
25th June 2009, 05:25 PM
The camp site was great, just the wandering down the river, looking for a better fishing spot, because i could hear rapids and i know black bream feed above and below rapids, was the activity that proved to be a bit sus, but i think i did what any other person on this site would do.
Surely, innocent fishing should be something anybody should be able to do, in safety?
I hear that down south, they grow the stuff, in doors, so i guess you may not know what or who, you have for neihbours.

lewy
25th June 2009, 05:51 PM
pics,gps co-ordinates,arrrr the 70's,i must of been there but i don't remember.:wasntme:

Savanahkelpy
25th June 2009, 05:55 PM
plod has the gps data, thats the only one needing it,:twisted:

richard4u2
25th June 2009, 06:13 PM
give it a week and you should have a nice clear spot to camp :)

Bigbjorn
25th June 2009, 06:49 PM
plod has the gps data, thats the only one needing it,:twisted:

In Queensland? This means that now the farmer has partners.

MickS
25th June 2009, 06:55 PM
Also very lucky in another way mate - quite often, the growers of these crops go to great lengths with mantraps etc...sharpened steel rods sticking out of the ground, timber boards with nails sticking out etc...

Utemad
25th June 2009, 07:15 PM
When I went to uni there was a forestry field trip (that I wasn't on) and they stumbled upon a crop. Luckily one of the guys on the trip was ex SAS and spotted a man trap. They got out of there quick smart!

cjc_td5
25th June 2009, 07:34 PM
Having grown up in the area around Lithgow and Kandos, I have heard many stories of people stumbling onto drug plots.

We have found evidence in the past of plots and camps around our farm in the Wolgan Valley. Even once found a camp in the bush and could recognise timber that they had used to make a chair as coming from around our sheds! Makes you feel pretty spooked and wanting to tiptoe out of there quick smart. You can almost feel the sights being lined up on the back of your head! The Wolgan Valley (and similar areas) have always been popular, being a suitable distance from Sydney and being warmer by being lower in elevation than the surrounding mountains.

Savanahkelpy
25th June 2009, 08:05 PM
Having grown up in the area around Lithgow and Kandos, I have heard many stories of people stumbling onto drug plots.

We have found evidence in the past of plots and camps around our farm in the Wolgan Valley. Even once found a camp in the bush and could recognise timber that they had used to make a chair as coming from around our sheds! Makes you feel pretty spooked and wanting to tiptoe out of there quick smart. You can almost feel the sights being lined up on the back of your head! The Wolgan Valley (and similar areas) have always been popular, being a suitable distance from Sydney and being warmer by being lower in elevation than the surrounding mountains.

I can relate to the sights thing, as when i saw the guy, (1 1/2 seconds worth), i did a 90 degree turn, headed upstream, fully expecting a loud, "HEY YOU", or similar, and i had an itchy patch between my shoulders, although i suspect it was my imagination. I got the hell out of there!!

spudboy
25th June 2009, 08:20 PM
Yeah - that's a bad thing. Glad you got out of there without incident.

What did the police say?

Captain_Rightfoot
25th June 2009, 08:32 PM
Yeah - that's a bad thing. Glad you got out of there without incident.

What did the police say?

<Draaaw> WOW man this is good stuff... hehe :spudnikbackflip: :wasntme:

JDNSW
26th June 2009, 05:58 AM
Living in an area which is heavily timbered and rather difficult of access, this sort of story is familiar. About twenty years ago a property ten kilometres from here was raided - the proprietor spent about the next year in Long Bay, but was then a beneficiary of NSW's "Minister for Early Release". According to local gossip he was given the property by his in-laws from Griffith on the basis that he raised one crop and if he got caught it was all his own idea. He is still there, apparently going straight.

Then there is the property four north of here - recently changed hands, but has for the last ten years been a problem for the fire brigade - the house is believed to be booby trapped, and the owner is difficult to contact as a guest of Her Majesty. Again, according to local gossip, his father gave him the place to "get him out of the scene he was in" in Sydney - apparently unsuccessfully.

John

Savanahkelpy
26th June 2009, 06:47 AM
Speaking of difficulties of access, i woke up this morning with a smile on my dial because i must have been thinking about over night, while asleep, and with my wicked sence of humour, i couldn,t help but laugh,:D
When i bugged out, yesterday, and by the time i got back on to the main road, i was starting to think, "Why should i cut my camping trip short because of this idiot and his actions, so when i crossed the bridge, i turned into the area most used by people for camping and having a break from driving, and there was parked a vehicle.;). By this time, my personal radar was on high alert, and for some reason, this vehicle raised suspisions, so i took down its details and gave them to plod, as well
If this was the vehicle ,(and i say IF), driven by a certain individual, then he had walked about 2 1/2 klms down stream to his site, to do his thing, :oand i had driven the same distance,on the other side of the creek, merely walking across the river bed. I can,t help but laugh, what a dork!:D:twisted::D

Grimace
26th June 2009, 07:06 AM
lucky you 'high' tailed it out of there, if he caught you, you could have been 'stoned'! :o

Shonky
26th June 2009, 07:36 AM
A neighbour of ours came across some financial difficulty about 2 years ago, and so decided to sell about 1/3rd of his land including a large shed.

The government took note of his plight and supplied him with free board and meals for over a year.




...or maybe that was because the dopey git forgot to remove his hydroponic plantation from the shed before the new owners moved in and found it!

:Rolling:

p38arover
26th June 2009, 08:14 AM
give it a week and you should have a nice clear spot to camp :)

Maybe with a little dropped crop to ease the discomfort. ;)

Michael2
26th June 2009, 08:15 AM
These are dangerous & STUPID people.

Let me tell you some precautionary tales we were told by the drug squad, when we did our paramedic training.

Story 1. A guy drives up and down the Hume HWY towing a covered trailer. In the trailer is a gas cooker, cooking his drugs. One day there's a mishap and a gas fire, in which he gets severely burned. Some months later he is out of the Alfred Hospitals burns units, still wearing his burns suit, and is caught by Police driving up & down the Hume HWY towing a trailer, but this time, with electric cookers.

Story 2. The S.O.G. raid a house in a leafy Melbourne suburb, the Drug Squad are in tow. Normally the S.O.G. secure the scene and the scientists on the Drug squad go in & shut down the operation. On this particular occasion they rush in, grab the crook and keep bolting out the back door. Perplexed as to their sudden exit, the Drug squad get on the radio and ask why. The guy had a hydrogen cylinder with tubing running to various flasks and sealed with wads of rags. He also had an open fire in the same room. The strret was evacuated, and when the fire died down, they went and shut down the process.

Story 3. The Police are surveilling a green house in the bush. There's a lab at the end of the green house. While they film, theres a disturbance at the front door. The crook (whose in the lab) gets up suddenly and knocks stuff over. The whole whing goes up like the Hindenburg. Police are glad it went up during surveillence and not a raid, as the interior had mesh and formed a cage, so there was only one entry / exit point.

Story 4. A couple of mates have an argument, so one decides to dob in his mate to the cops. The Police arrive and aren't able to find anything. As they're about to leave, the gleefully excited crook asks, "do you want me to show you where it is?" They take him up on his generous offer. He goes and removes a grille from the brick wall, behind it is a string, he pulls the string and hydraulic rams lift a concrete slab in the yard, with a brick BBQ on it!!! Under the slab are twin wells, one to a hyrdoponic room and another to a lab. He hadn't started production, but if he had, the fluro igniters from the hydroponics would have ignited the vapours of chemicals he was using and he could have taken out some of his street.

Story 5. A lot of these guys use petrol as a solvent for reducing their drugs, not knowing that they can buy industrial quantities of alcohol.

The stories sound unbelievable, but there was a slide show to corroborate them.

And as already stated, be wary of booby traps around bush plots.

abaddonxi
26th June 2009, 08:33 AM
Speaking of difficulties of access, i woke up this morning with a smile on my dial because i must have been thinking about over night, while asleep, and with my wicked sence of humour, i couldn,t help but laugh,:D
When i bugged out, yesterday, and by the time i got back on to the main road, i was starting to think, "Why should i cut my camping trip short because of this idiot and his actions, so when i crossed the bridge, i turned into the area most used by people for camping and having a break from driving, and there was parked a vehicle.;). By this time, my personal radar was on high alert, and for some reason, this vehicle raised suspisions, so i took down its details and gave them to plod, as well
If this was the vehicle ,(and i say IF), driven by a certain individual, then he had walked about 2 1/2 klms down stream to his site, to do his thing, :oand i had driven the same distance,on the other side of the creek, merely walking across the river bed. I can,t help but laugh, what a dork!:D:twisted::D

Th dork bit is probably that he didn't park his car far enough away.

From the stories I've heard, the idea is that you put the plantation on the neighbours property, and never drive in. Everything is walked in, including all of those batteries, and take a different route every time so that there isn't a worn path in.

Lucky thing is he probably wouldn't have been carrying a gun if he was already loaded down with batteries.

JDNSW
26th June 2009, 09:10 AM
Reminds me of the account I read some time ago (possibly an urban legend). The man telling the story was at a police auction, and the bloke standing next to him bought a whole stack of flourescent lights seized from an urban hydroponic setup. He asked the bloke what he wanted all the lights for? The reply, "They took my lights, and getting them back this way is a lot cheaper than buying new ones!"

John

Lucy
26th June 2009, 10:56 AM
A dairy farming friend tells me that finding small crops in the middle of their corn fields (grown for silage) is a common occurrence. Once they decided to bring forward the date of harvesting unannounced - the cows were very happy!

Savanahkelpy
26th June 2009, 11:16 AM
I will say, that all said and done, i,m safe, i get to fish and camp another day, maybe/ most probably at other places, but its unwanted hazard of being a bushy and the search for good fishing holes. I figure i,ve done all i could and whether you trust the police or not:nazilock:, its now in their hands. I gave all needed information in my posession, and its now up to them to make connections and take any action.
Laurie.:)
Looks like i,ll have to search upstream, now,,, for fishing spots, that is,,,,had enough of anything else!!

russ55
26th June 2009, 11:43 AM
Reminds me of a story from some Townsville blokes about 20 years ago on the western side of the Cape.

About 8 at night, 3 blokes walk into their camp with guns, gave 1 guy a hiding to show they meant business, burnt their swags, told them to **** off, not come back and they had their rego numbers so no coppers!

They could only surmise they were somewhere near a crop or a transfer point.

These guys were all burly but they reckon these hoods were fair dinkum and frightened the crap out of them!

Bigbjorn
26th June 2009, 11:45 AM
Reminds me of the account I read some time ago (possibly an urban legend). The man telling the story was at a police auction, and the bloke standing next to him bought a whole stack of flourescent lights seized from an urban hydroponic setup. He asked the bloke what he wanted all the lights for? The reply, "They took my lights, and getting them back this way is a lot cheaper than buying new ones!"

John

One often sees hydroponic farming gear at the Public Trustee "Police Seized Goods" auctions. The auctioneers tell me that after the sale the police get the names and addresses from the auctioneers buyer register (POI is necessary to get a bidders number) and a few months later pay the buyer a call and sometimes the gear goes back through the auction house.

JohnF
26th June 2009, 12:20 PM
spent a couple of hours watching a low hovering police helicopter hovering over our neighbors place, when they dropped a streamer, and all these police toyota 4WD's heasded down. He had 6 mature plants growing under the lantana. Next day the chopper was back and photographed us on the otherside of our place carrying matocks, etc. along our fence line to remove groundsill, a declared noxious weed. Then we moved a bit further along our fence line and found dope growing in our scrub, just one plant. So we went back to the house and called the cops, and a local constable came out and removed it. We could have been done for it if we had left it growing there.

timbocruiser
26th June 2009, 08:42 PM
holy crap you where lucky mate! shifty bastards they are!

Binford
27th June 2009, 12:46 AM
This is why I can't understand the "logic" of making firearms illegal. Illegal or not, the drug guy almost certainly has a gun, but because you're a law-abiding citizen, you can't?! Makes no sense at all.

I feel blessed to live in a state where I can get a permit to carry a concealed handgun. And I almost always have it on me when I'm out in public. Not that I'd go charging in with my gun out (I would have done precisely the same thing you did), but at least I'd have had a fighting chance to get out of there if I'd been spotted and cornered.

You NEVER expected to run into such danger, did ya, Savanahkelpy? Well that's the funny thing about danger like that! One never knows when to expect it. That's simply the reason I take full advantage of my rights to carry a pistol. I wish you good folks down there could as well....

Stay safe, guys....

chunk
27th June 2009, 02:48 AM
Yesterday, i went back to a camping/fishing spot, that i was last at over easter,,(see "bad camping ethics"), in hope of catching another fish or 2, to top off the last week of my holiday. little did i know that i would have to cut it short, this morning, in fear of my safety, and finaly ending up in the local plods office,( :nazilock:). No, i wasn,t in trouble, just stumbled on a drug crop, while it was being watered. :eek::eek::eek:. Never has walking away from a situation, in the bush, quietly and quickly, been such a difficult thing to do, as every step sounded like thunder, in my ears.
When you see one person, (grower or crop minder), you don,t know if they are alone or not, whether they are armed or not, or what their state of mind is like.
Had the shakes by the time i got back on to the main road.;):(
Laurie.


I would like to congratulate you on doing the right thing and reporting you find, a lot of people in that situation wouldn't have because they were either to scared to or just didn't want to get involved. Good onya if there were more people like you this country would be an even better place.:clap2::thumbsup:

disco2hse
27th June 2009, 06:11 AM
I will say, that all said and done, i,m safe, i get to fish and camp another day, maybe/ most probably at other places, but its unwanted hazard of being a bushy and the search for good fishing holes. I figure i,ve done all i could and whether you trust the police or not:nazilock:, its now in their hands. I gave all needed information in my posession, and its now up to them to make connections and take any action.
Laurie.:)
Looks like i,ll have to search upstream, now,,, for fishing spots, that is,,,,had enough of anything else!!

Thing that annoys me about this whole saga and so many others like it is that tow rags (read that as gangs) have effectively spoiled access to the great outdoors.

We have the same kind of problem here where it is now quite dangerous to venture too far off the beaten track and some gangs have even taken to hijacking people in the bush and robbing them :mad:

Alan

chunk
27th June 2009, 06:34 AM
Thing that annoys me about this whole saga and so many others like it is that tow rags (read that as gangs) have effectively spoiled access to the great outdoors.

We have the same kind of problem here where it is now quite dangerous to venture too far off the beaten track and some gangs have even taken to hijacking people in the bush and robbing them :mad:

Alan

Yer those sheep can be pretty nasty if you rub them the wrong way:)

JDNSW
27th June 2009, 07:55 AM
This is why I can't understand the "logic" of making firearms illegal. Illegal or not, the drug guy almost certainly has a gun, but because you're a law-abiding citizen, you can't?! Makes no sense at all.
...........


The logic, whether or not you agree with it, is that since the drug guy can be pretty certain you are not armed, even if he is, he is unlikely to attack you, even if you confront him - if he disposes of you, he does not know how many other people know where you are, and the last thing he wants is an official search of the area. If he is armed, and as you say, it is quite possible, it is for the purpose primarily of frightening off competitors who may try to take over his business, or to frighten off innocents. If he frightens you off, there is a reasonable chance that you are so scared you won't go to the police (or he has already bought them). If he kills you there is a high probability of a major search, which is certain to involve people he has not bought, and equally certain to find his plantation. On the other hand, if he knows you are likely to be armed, he is much more likely to shoot first and take the risks.

While some murders of insiders in the drug business may not attract enthusiastic policing, murder of uninvolved people, as with the antidrug campaigner whose name escapes me at Griffith, is almost certain to attract vigorous policing, which in that case closed down the area as a place for drug supply, at least for a number of years.

John

richard4u2
27th June 2009, 09:08 AM
always assume some growing herbs will be stoned 99% of the time, so any thing could happen :(

waynep
27th June 2009, 09:36 AM
This is why I can't understand the "logic" of making firearms illegal. Illegal or not, the drug guy almost certainly has a gun, but because you're a law-abiding citizen, you can't?! Makes no sense at all.

I feel blessed to live in a state where I can get a permit to carry a concealed handgun. And I almost always have it on me when I'm out in public. Not that I'd go charging in with my gun out (I would have done precisely the same thing you did), but at least I'd have had a fighting chance to get out of there if I'd been spotted and cornered.

You NEVER expected to run into such danger, did ya, Savanahkelpy? Well that's the funny thing about danger like that! One never knows when to expect it. That's simply the reason I take full advantage of my rights to carry a pistol. I wish you good folks down there could as well....

Stay safe, guys....


Not wanting to turn this into a gun/anti-gun discussion, but I think that if everyone was "packing", the likelyhood of someone getting hurt would be much higher. ( for many reasons).

Thanks for your concern, but I don't want to see this turn into a country where every camper in the bush needs to pack a weapon thanks. It wouldn't be the same.

Hay Ewe
27th June 2009, 09:50 AM
couple of years ago me a mate wnet exploring on motorbikes for some old mine sites that showed up on the AUSLIG maps, just for a day out.
we followed a track and came upon an house with a fresh fire - really remote in the scrub.

we turned around after she said thats where the murderers live!

I told the story to a mate a while later and he sincerely told me not to go exploring in the bush like that again!

Its great fun following old tracks but like others said, it has ruined the honest peoples day out

Oh well,

Hay Ewe

Rosco
27th June 2009, 09:53 AM
....... as with the antidrug campaigner whose name escapes me at Griffith......

John


Hey JD

Does the name Donald Mackay ring a bell ... ;)

spudboy
27th June 2009, 10:21 AM
This is why I can't understand the "logic" of making firearms illegal. Illegal or not, the drug guy almost certainly has a gun, but because you're a law-abiding citizen, you can't?! Makes no sense at all.


I'm afraid I don't agree with you Binford.

Making it hard to own a firearm is a good thing. I have no idea what Australia's per-capita shooting stats are, but I can bet they are orders of magnitude less than the USA's stats.

What might start out as a spat with fists thrown can quickly escalate into someone getting killed if people were carrying firearms.

I use a firearm for my job occasionally (farmer) so I don't think they are evil things in themselves, but there is no way I'd want to see Australia have the same 'freedoms' as you get over there.

JDNSW
27th June 2009, 11:51 AM
Murder rates per 100,000 per year, most recent figures:-

USA =5.8*
Australia = 1.45
NZ = 2.0
England + Wales = 1.37
Norway = 0.78*
Switzerland = 2.94*
Finland = 2.17*
Colombia = 33*

See List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia But note that the figures given for some countries are probably very unreliable (you can guess which ones), although probably fairly good for all the ones I have quoted.

* means very high private possession of firearms. It is not clear to me whether the high US firearm possession is a cause or effect of the high murder rate, and the lack of correlation for other countries does not strongly implicate firearms.

The lowest figure quoted is 0.47 for Morocco, and you may well be dubious about how good their statistics are. The next lowest are Singapore and Hongkong at 0.48 and 0.49, and there is little doubt that their statistics are accurate.

John

geckos
27th June 2009, 12:35 PM
Never has walking away from a situation, in the bush, quietly and quickly, been such a difficult thing to do, as every step sounded like thunder, in my ears.

Gees mate. I know how you feel. Other places in the world you might have to do that but in Australia????????????????????????????

MacMan
27th June 2009, 06:57 PM
Have found a number of funny things out hunting.

I still remember the penny dropping when I saw my first kiddy pool in the middle of the bush, at the bottom of the deepest gully within 3km.

:twisted:

disco2hse
27th June 2009, 07:11 PM
Yer those sheep can be pretty nasty if you rub them the wrong way:)

I have only got one thing to say in response to that oh so stereotypical comment :eek:




YouTube - Black Sheep - The Movie




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/142.jpg

Alan

chunk
27th June 2009, 10:32 PM
I have only got one thing to say in response to that oh so stereotypical comment :eek:




YouTube - Black Sheep - The Movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXO3BF-D-E4)




http://www.andyofniall.net/assets/Blog/black-sheep.jpg




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/142.jpg

Alan


About time those sheep got there revenge

clean32
27th June 2009, 10:42 PM
About time those sheep got there revenge

Yep they really doint like losing the more sheep than people tittle to australia

Make you wonder about what the aussies do to them for such a population growth.

Binford
27th June 2009, 11:46 PM
The logic, whether or not you agree with it, is that since the drug guy can be pretty certain you are not armed, even if he is, he is unlikely to attack you, even if you confront him - if he disposes of you, he does not know how many other people know where you are, and the last thing he wants is an official search of the area. If he is armed, and as you say, it is quite possible, it is for the purpose primarily of frightening off competitors who may try to take over his business, or to frighten off innocents. If he frightens you off, there is a reasonable chance that you are so scared you won't go to the police (or he has already bought them). If he kills you there is a high probability of a major search, which is certain to involve people he has not bought, and equally certain to find his plantation. On the other hand, if he knows you are likely to be armed, he is much more likely to shoot first and take the risks.

While some murders of insiders in the drug business may not attract enthusiastic policing, murder of uninvolved people, as with the antidrug campaigner whose name escapes me at Griffith, is almost certain to attract vigorous policing, which in that case closed down the area as a place for drug supply, at least for a number of years.

John

I can appreciate your logic, John. Well put. But only 4% of the population here takes advantage of the concealed carry laws, so the odds of anyone being armed are actually pretty low. So the same thought-process is likely to go on in the American drug guy's head--that is the assumption would be the citizen is most likely unarmed.

But the bad guys just can't know for sure, can they? And how many criminal attacks didn't take place because of that question?

I didn't mean to spoil this thread with a gun debate. Let me just say that if I got cornered in a serious life-threatening situation with no escape, I just appreciate having the means to protect myself and my family. Remember...when seconds count, the police are only minutes away! ;)

Griffith, eh? That's one of the two areas in Australia I have had the privilege to visit! I flew in there on my way to Coleambally where I stayed a few times at a little motel run by a sweet lady named Gwen. So when I picture Australia, that's basically what I'm thinking of. That area and Gatton, a couple hours outside Brisbane.

Cheers....

chunk
27th June 2009, 11:49 PM
Yep they really doint like losing the more sheep than people tittle to australia

Make you wonder about what the aussies do to them for such a population growth.


Sheep breed a lot better when you don't touch them up:twisted:

JDNSW
28th June 2009, 06:29 AM
...........
Griffith, eh? That's one of the two areas in Australia I have had the privilege to visit! I flew in there on my way to Coleambally where I stayed a few times at a little motel run by a sweet lady named Gwen. So when I picture Australia, that's basically what I'm thinking of. That area and Gatton, a couple hours outside Brisbane.

Cheers....

Interestingly, I am familiar with Coleambally - a cousin of mine lived there (on a farm) for many years until her death about six months ago. And I have been driving through (although these days more often past) Gatton, on and off, for the last forty-seven years. Also a couple of years ago visited the parents of a friend of one of my grand daughters who are school teachers in Griffith.

John

clean32
28th June 2009, 07:51 AM
Murder rates per 100,000 per year, most recent figures:-

USA =5.8*
Australia = 1.45
NZ = 2.0
England + Wales = 1.37
Norway = 0.78*
Switzerland = 2.94*
Finland = 2.17*
Colombia = 33*

See List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_rates) But note that the figures given for some countries are probably very unreliable (you can guess which ones), although probably fairly good for all the ones I have quoted.

* means very high private possession of firearms. It is not clear to me whether the high US firearm possession is a cause or effect of the high murder rate, and the lack of correlation for other countries does not strongly implicate firearms.

The lowest figure quoted is 0.47 for Morocco, and you may well be dubious about how good their statistics are. The next lowest are Singapore and Hongkong at 0.48 and 0.49, and there is little doubt that their statistics are accurate.

John

Having traveled and lived in different countries quite a bit. I think that couture has more to do with the number of deaths rather than the number of guns available. finland has a very aggressive guy type of outlook, this seems to be encouraged by the government under the justification of supposedly being constantly under threat of russia ( history ) this is the same as in russia.
the swiss are just borderline nutters. the only counrty that Nazi germany never risked to invade ( they were going to but the swiss got word of it . it would have been like invading Japan)

even NZ compared to australia. NZ with its underlying battle couture. ( ever seen the documentary " once were warriors"

in short i think that a countries history has more to do with the numbers of deaths. this intern dictates the number of guns and not the other way around.

clean32
28th June 2009, 07:57 AM
Sheep breed a lot better when you don't touch them up:twisted:

maybe you are correct. looks like australia hasn't gotten much past Caveman pickup lines

Rape

# 1 South Africa: 1.19538 per 1,000 people
# 2 Seychelles: 0.788294 per 1,000 people
# 3 Australia: 0.777999 per 1,000 people


Rapes (per capita) by country. Definition, graph and map. (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita)

disco2hse
28th June 2009, 08:53 AM
About time those sheep got there revenge

:D:D

Yeah well, just you wait till Skippy finds out. :wub:

:tease:

Alan

waynep
28th June 2009, 09:01 AM
Having traveled and lived in different countries quite a bit. I think that couture has more to do with the number of deaths rather than the number of guns available. finland has a very aggressive guy type of outlook, this seems to be encouraged by the government under the justification of supposedly being constantly under threat of russia ( history ) this is the same as in russia.
the swiss are just borderline nutters. the only counrty that Nazi germany never risked to invade ( they were going to but the swiss got word of it . it would have been like invading Japan)

even NZ compared to australia. NZ with its underlying battle couture. ( ever seen the documentary " once were warriors"

in short i think that a countries history has more to do with the numbers of deaths. this intern dictates the number of guns and not the other way around.

I was a little confused by your post there Clean32, but if you take "dressmaking" and substitute it for the French "couture" in those two places, it all makes perfect sense ;)

( to a former Kiwi anyway )

BTW "Once Were Warriors" isn't a documentary, it is a fictional movie, but based on life in South Auckland. There was a sequel a couple of years later with "What Becomes of the Broken Hearted".

Savanahkelpy
28th June 2009, 09:31 AM
When i was out camping, i wasn,t lost,, but this thread seems to have become very disoriented,,:D:twisted:
Laurie,:wasntme:

abaddonxi
28th June 2009, 10:03 AM
I was a little confused by your post there Clean32, but if you take "dressmaking" and substitute it for the French "couture" in those two places, it all makes perfect sense ;)

( to a former Kiwi anyway )

BTW "Once Were Warriors" isn't a documentary, it is a fictional movie, but based on life in South Auckland. There was a sequel a couple of years later with "What Becomes of the Broken Hearted".

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

clean32
28th June 2009, 11:29 AM
BTW "Once Were Warriors" isn't a documentary, it is a fictional movie, but based on life in South Auckland. There was a sequel a couple of years later with "What Becomes of the Broken Hearted".

then as a Kiwi you must hail from AK.
but then i grew up around places like the Lakeside hotel in Rotorua. ( tables nailed to the floor) and the flying jug at the MT ( cant remember tis real name)
the Forrest at toke
or try surviving a couple of years in the FORD block rotorua.
did you ever survive a new years at the mount ( 70s - 80s)? or Mt collage riots ( yes a high school with riot police)

to many provincial Kiwis, the movie Once were warriors IS a documentary

its no wonder the federation cloned the warrior race LOL ( star wars)

disco2hse
28th June 2009, 11:43 AM
then as a Kiwi you must hail from AK.
but then i grew up around places like the Lakeside hotel in Rotorua. ( tables nailed to the floor) and the flying jug at the MT ( cant remember tis real name)
the Forrest at toke
or try surviving a couple of years in the FORD block rotorua.
did you ever survive a new years at the mount ( 70s - 80s)? or Mt collage riots ( yes a high school with riot police)

to many provincial Kiwis, the movie Once were warriors IS a documentary

its no wonder the federation cloned the warrior race LOL ( star wars)

:confused::confused::no2:

Y'know I think that most people who watch a movie will recognise it isn't real. Even 'provincials'.

Maybe it portrays a section of society accurately, as this does (I know that very very well), but it is not real. It is not a documentary, it is fiction.

Oh, and by the way. Not all kiwi's "hail from AK". I don't. I am a provincial and I think I realise the difference between what's real and what's not. ;)

Alan

87County
28th June 2009, 04:21 PM
...
While some murders of insiders in the drug business may not attract enthusiastic policing, murder of uninvolved people, as with the antidrug campaigner whose name escapes me at Griffith, is almost certain to attract vigorous policing, which in that case closed down the area as a place for drug supply, at least for a number of years.

John


JD, it was Donald McKay......

waynep
28th June 2009, 05:01 PM
then as a Kiwi you must hail from AK.
but then i grew up around places like the Lakeside hotel in Rotorua. ( tables nailed to the floor) and the flying jug at the MT ( cant remember tis real name)
the Forrest at toke
or try surviving a couple of years in the FORD block rotorua.
did you ever survive a new years at the mount ( 70s - 80s)? or Mt collage riots ( yes a high school with riot police)

to many provincial Kiwis, the movie Once were warriors IS a documentary

its no wonder the federation cloned the warrior race LOL ( star wars)

Well, close , I lived in Murupara for 4 years in the mid 70's. If you lived in BOP you'll know Murupara and it's reputation. A couple of times while I was there, shotguns were discharged in the public bar. All the beer,blood and everything else was hosed out of the bar the next morning.
Like most others there I owned a rifle, and did a bit of deer hunting ( I was hopeless at it I might add ).
But for all that I had a great time there -real character building town.

I agree with you, OWW although not a documentary, is pretty close to reality as I experienced it anyway.

Sorry thread really hijacked now ...

MarknDeb
28th June 2009, 05:25 PM
Mate by the sound of it, if they had of chased you they wouldnt have caught you because they would have been slipping in your poo :angel::wasntme:

Glad to hear you got out safe ;)

clean32
28th June 2009, 06:16 PM
:confused::confused::no2:

Y'know I think that most people who watch a movie will recognise it isn't real. Even 'provincials'.

Maybe it portrays a section of society accurately, as this does (I know that very very well), but it is not real. It is not a documentary, it is fiction.

Oh, and by the way. Not all kiwi's "hail from AK". I don't. I am a provincial and I think I realise the difference between what's real and what's not. ;)

Alan

Mate sheeesh if you live it its a doco

clean32
28th June 2009, 06:51 PM
Well, close , I lived in Murupara for 4 years in the mid 70's. If you lived in BOP you'll know Murupara and it's reputation. A couple of times while I was there, shotguns were discharged in the public bar. All the beer,blood and everything else was hosed out of the bar the next morning.
Like most others there I owned a rifle, and did a bit of deer hunting ( I was hopeless at it I might add ).
But for all that I had a great time there -real character building town.

I agree with you, OWW although not a documentary, is pretty close to reality as I experienced it anyway.

Sorry thread really hijacked now ...

yeppa know the place, Forestry gangs vers the bike gangs etc, i think Murupara was Hu Hu country, my old man was Filthy Few so i would change my name often and always when not on FF dirt.
but if you head down the cape way for a bit of hunting, 1st you get permission from the land owner then you go to the local shout a couple of rounds and let everyone know what you are up to. If a local says no dear \ pigs that way you just doint go there, if you do there is a good chance you doint come out.
things are a bit more organized on the cape now. rather than the cow cockies losing stock and having there houses burnt down for being a suspect nark thay are more likely to fined a scrub cutting gang working or a new fence line up. the number of people disappearing is down as well. just the way things are. not my business.

Savanahkelpy
28th June 2009, 06:59 PM
Mate by the sound of it, if they had of chased you they wouldnt have caught you because they would have been slipping in your poo :angel::wasntme:

Glad to hear you got out safe ;)

Since i had all my fishing kit in a woolies blue chiller bag plus landing net, in left hand, and a brand new shorty ugly stik plus penn winder, in right hand, the temptation to drop everything and run, had to be resisted. He had boots and i was in sandles, and i,m trying to sneak away quietly, on course dry gritty sand and dry leaves. :eek:Of course, ****s was trumps!!:D
Laurie

rovercare
28th June 2009, 07:03 PM
These are dangerous & STUPID people.

Let me tell you some precautionary tales we were told by the drug squad, when we did our paramedic training.

Story 1. A guy drives up and down the Hume HWY towing a covered trailer. In the trailer is a gas cooker, cooking his drugs. One day there's a mishap and a gas fire, in which he gets severely burned. Some months later he is out of the Alfred Hospitals burns units, still wearing his burns suit, and is caught by Police driving up & down the Hume HWY towing a trailer, but this time, with electric cookers.

Story 2. The S.O.G. raid a house in a leafy Melbourne suburb, the Drug Squad are in tow. Normally the S.O.G. secure the scene and the scientists on the Drug squad go in & shut down the operation. On this particular occasion they rush in, grab the crook and keep bolting out the back door. Perplexed as to their sudden exit, the Drug squad get on the radio and ask why. The guy had a hydrogen cylinder with tubing running to various flasks and sealed with wads of rags. He also had an open fire in the same room. The strret was evacuated, and when the fire died down, they went and shut down the process.

Story 3. The Police are surveilling a green house in the bush. There's a lab at the end of the green house. While they film, theres a disturbance at the front door. The crook (whose in the lab) gets up suddenly and knocks stuff over. The whole whing goes up like the Hindenburg. Police are glad it went up during surveillence and not a raid, as the interior had mesh and formed a cage, so there was only one entry / exit point.

Story 4. A couple of mates have an argument, so one decides to dob in his mate to the cops. The Police arrive and aren't able to find anything. As they're about to leave, the gleefully excited crook asks, "do you want me to show you where it is?" They take him up on his generous offer. He goes and removes a grille from the brick wall, behind it is a string, he pulls the string and hydraulic rams lift a concrete slab in the yard, with a brick BBQ on it!!! Under the slab are twin wells, one to a hyrdoponic room and another to a lab. He hadn't started production, but if he had, the fluro igniters from the hydroponics would have ignited the vapours of chemicals he was using and he could have taken out some of his street.

Story 5. A lot of these guys use petrol as a solvent for reducing their drugs, not knowing that they can buy industrial quantities of alcohol.

The stories sound unbelievable, but there was a slide show to corroborate them.

And as already stated, be wary of booby traps around bush plots.

You talking about people cooking amphetamines, not a dude growing weed in the dirt, I'd like to see the Mull crop explode:D

rovercare
28th June 2009, 07:07 PM
One often sees hydroponic farming gear at the Public Trustee "Police Seized Goods" auctions. The auctioneers tell me that after the sale the police get the names and addresses from the auctioneers buyer register (POI is necessary to get a bidders number) and a few months later pay the buyer a call and sometimes the gear goes back through the auction house.

Correct, but they can't Visit without a warrant:D

rovercare
28th June 2009, 07:18 PM
even NZ compared to australia. NZ with its underlying battle couture. ( ever seen the documentary " once were warriors"

.

A Documentary:imwithstupid::Rolling:

That's great, good one:p

rovercare
28th June 2009, 07:20 PM
So now you've been and dobbed him in, what about when he finds out it was you? bet he won;t be your friend:)

p38arover
28th June 2009, 07:46 PM
So now you've been and dobbed him in, what about when he finds out it was you? bet he won;t be your friend:)

Especially if he's a member of this forum and will know who you are! :eek:

Savanahkelpy
28th June 2009, 08:12 PM
Some of us are prepared to take the risks inherent in doing the right thing. Many people would walk away and do nothing because of unfounded fears, based on rumour and inuendo, planted in their minds by other gutless people. Many aspects of life are risky. What is a person expected to do? Stay in bed because life is risky? This stupid guy took a risk, the day he decided to break the law.

clean32
28th June 2009, 09:40 PM
A Documentary:imwithstupid::Rolling:

That's great, good one:p

LOL walk into just about any public bar between the cape and hamilton and make a bar bar joke. then we can make a doco

disco2hse
29th June 2009, 05:57 AM
LOL walk into just about any public bar between the cape and hamilton and make a bar bar joke. then we can make a doco

Mate you live in an 'interesting' reality. :bangin:

Glad most of the rest of us that actually live here don't :Rolling:

Alan

Bigbjorn
29th June 2009, 11:19 AM
Correct, but they can't Visit without a warrant:D

But they can certainly put the place under observation, check number plates & form of residents and visitors,and have the electricity authority check the electricity connection and consumption. Can also knock on the door, looking for "Fiction Al". Often the others who are watching the back door will manage to trip a few making a sudden exit when there is a heavy "copper's knock" on the front door.

If any of the residents and visitors have form, and have purchased the equipment, then they should be able to convince a magistrate there is a well founded suspicion and get a warrant.

rovercare
29th June 2009, 11:37 AM
But they can certainly put the place under observation, check number plates & form of residents and visitors,and have the electricity authority check the electricity connection and consumption. Can also knock on the door, looking for "Fiction Al". Often the others who are watching the back door will manage to trip a few making a sudden exit when there is a heavy "copper's knock" on the front door.

If any of the residents and visitors have form, and have purchased the equipment, then they should be able to convince a magistrate there is a well founded suspicion and get a warrant.

Having had a fair bit to do with people both side of the fence Brian, in reality, most people are caught because of 2 reasons, 1. they have a blue with a mate and get lagged in, 2. the neighbours, cotton on and get jealous when old mate who doesn't go to work, has new cars/bikes/jetskis etc

Not because they bought some grow lights at a sherriff's auction:D