P38 - NEW ENGINE (& owner) CRACKING UP!

[DT-P38]

JUST PULLED THE BIT BELOW OUT OF A PREVIOUS THREAD TO MORE ACCURATELY LINK WITH TITLE.

Funniest thing was, just before we left off road "the pretty pig" started starving for fuel and cracking up at about 2500-2800 rpm. So the entire trip was done on the bottom end of the rev range! :p Still not completely sure why, but initially had thought it was bad fuel picked up in Moe just before heading for the hills. Upon return home changed fuel filter (to no effect) then on mechanics advice pulled MAP sensor and gave it a good clean (with CO Contact Cleaner) but again no change. Pulled MAP a second time to double check and it still looked really nice but noticed there was no O-ring between air box and MAP body (:wasntme:). Hence MAP may be getting mucked up... will get one in to her tomorrow and see if that fixes it. :confused: NOTE: O-RING HAS SINCE BEEN REPLACED TO NO EFFECT.

However, I still can't understand how it can run like a treat for the first week or so and then just drop out like that... prior to the trip I was giving her the odd rev up toward the top end and although it wasn't ultra smooth, I thought she was going along quite nicely for a tight new engine (although we did have a bit of fuming here and there previously which strangely seems to have dissappeared again). Also, given the old mate who did the engine change must have left the O-ring out, I'm really stumped as to why all this would simply start a week or so later anyway?!? :confused:

Any of youz P38 GURU's got any experience, comments or suggestions about what else might be going on here? Could the break down be spark and not fuel/air related? Should I be getting diagnostic checks done? I have heard conflicting stories about MAP issues not even showing up on the various test equipment?!?

Does all this talking about it really help?!? - I think it does... Or, should I just go and get my head checked by a shrink for getting so intimate with the pretty pig (as Mrs sometimes reckons!)?

Anyway, would really appreciate your comments... Me a little lost again... but still pretty happy!!!:D:D

ONE SUGGESTION RECEIVED TO DATE WAS TO CHECK CRANK ANGLE SENSOR.

[andrew e]

ONE SUGGESTION RECEIVED TO DATE WAS TO CHECK CRANK ANGLE SENSOR.

I dont think it will run at all with a faulty crank angle sensor.

[DT-P38]

OOOPS, just noticed I have been referring to MAF as a MAP... Dill, Dill, Dill!!!

Mechanic Mate who did the change over has today informed me that we will need to get diagnostic check for faults first, but he is pretty much set on it being MAF Sensor.

SOOOOOOOOOO.......

any advice on the best "backyard-er" diagnostic tools for sale for a 1995 P38 4.6?

AAAAAAAAAAND,

does anyone wanna sell me a working (and cheap!) MAF???

Have a fellow AULROian around the corner who has Scan Gauge 2, but have read it may only be good for post 99 P38's. I guess we really want a solution to cover all "the pretty pig's" requirements (such as EAS). Also have a guy via e-bay who will sell me a new non genuine (but guaranteed) MAF for around $250, but would obviously prefer OE and as new as possible (dealer says new OE is $800-ish).

Essentially, I am not loaded enough to keep forking out for dealer plug ins (no offence intended if any of you are reading) especially if I can buy something fairly easy to use and have a crack at it. I intend to have a long and passionate affair with the "pretty pig" given investment to date is now sitting around 4 times re-sale!

I also figure part of looking after a fresh motor will be regular plug ins anyway.

Looking forward to any advice.

Dave & "the pretty pig"

[PaulP38a]

Hi Dave

If you are intending to have a long and meaningful relationship with your "pig" and seriously want to do some of your own diagnostics and clear faults, you should consider getting a FaultMate MSV2 or the earlier Rovacom. You can get a MSV2 new from Hard Range (West Oz), RPI Engineering (UK) or Black Box Solutions (the manufacturer in Cyprus). They retail for between $1,000-$1,500.

Have a lurk around eBay and you might find a second hand Rovacom or MSV2 for less.

I'm still trying to figure out all the goodies I can do with mine, which I only got a few weeks ago... for similar reasons to you... I intend to keep my "tractor" for a long while yet. I reset the adaptive fuel mappings last week and it "appears" to be getting fuel economy...

Re your rough running issues... I had a similar sounding problem quite a while ago... was a bad connection on one of the leads... sometimes they look like they are on ok, but they're not. Remove each one and re-seat it again. maybe, just maybe...

I guess you could also try a big bottle of fuel injector cleaner incase some crap did get picked up in Moe... no, I'm not referring to any girls that I went out with when I lived near there in 1980's :D

Cheers, Paul.

[DT-P38]

Thanks Paul, will have to invest soon I guess, as have had no change from pulling and checking leads, or running fuel additives/injector cleaners. Am now in process of purchasing new Non Gen MAF for approx $250 (beats OE at $800-ish) hoping this does it.

At this stage (after spending around $4K with them) I just can't stomach going back to dealer to get stung for a $100+ plug in... I can get better rates (and value!) from the local brothel for plugging myself in!

If the MAF don't do it, old mate mechanic (who did the engine swap) will have to be getting it back to sort out. I think he can get onto a machine during lunch or after work or something... fingers crossed on the MAF anyway!!!

Hoo Roo, Dave.

[DT-P38]

Any ideas why the various state arms of AULRO couldn't invest in diagnostic equipment for members to share?

Perhaps if all registered P38 owners in VIC put in $50 we could get a unit to sit at the president or secretarys place and then just book it out and pick up/drop off to a schedule... or am I just dreaming and the suppliers will not enable it?!?

[DT-P38]

To all who may have read my negative comments below...I now post a serious SORRY TO LR DEALERS.

I have recently contacted my local dealer and been informed a diagnostic plug in is actually only around $70-80. I now feel guilty bagging them out inaccurately and wish to clarify. I have been told that the cost only goes up when further investigation of highlighted faults (or problems not flushed up as faults) is required and then standard hourly labour charges are then added to this flat charge.

Again, Apologies for my mistake, I must have just been unlucky in my experiences and always had to have additional investigations completed. Will have to start paying more attention to my receipts and feedback from the techo's.

Regards, Dave.

[DT-P38]

Well lucky that last post was an apology! I just finished putting the new MAF in and guess what? NO CHANGE. :mad: Still cracking up over 2500rpm. :mad:

AAAHH WELL, "the pretty pig" she is gonna have a nice little change of scenery and go spend some time with "old mate" mechanic again! :thumbsup: Hopefully his superior LR training, mystical rangie skills and diagnostic tools can find a nice simple fix... and maybe I can help out another P38 brother with a very, very slightly used non gen MAF (or maybe even a very well run in OE one!). OH YEAH, I can have a crack at e-baying with Andy! :ehigh5:

THE SLAB-KARMA CHALLENGE!
:twobeers:
As an attempt to bring some joy and humour into this sad situation (and seeing as I'm guessing the wallet is possibly gonna be spread open again), I will put up a slab of beer to the individual who is first to come up with the nearest thing to (what I can only hope will be) a final solution. So gents, the rules are simple:
:twobeers:
1. You need to be first in with the right answer, and
2. You only get one stab at it and can not list a selection of cures.
:twobeers:
Note: If the fix is multi part the first correct entries for each part will share in the beers! Me and the wallet just hope we don't have to try delivering beer to 24 different winners!
:twobeers:
Happy days all! And FYI, I still love the "pretty pig"!!! Its weird, but even the disappointing post MAF test drive was able to put a wry smile on my face! Its obviously an illness this P38 thing...

HOOROO, Dave & the "pretty pig" :cool:

[Gullible]

How specific do we have to be?

Could I just post "It's a Lucas problem" and win the beer?:angel:

[DT-P38]

Eeeeeeeeeeerrr let me think, No!

I could also win my own slab (been doin too much of that lately!) by simply stating it's a Land Rover problem!

[PLR]

G`day ,

if electrical ....

Check the diagnostic connector isn`t loose and the pins look to be making contact .

Check the connectors for the engine / coil pack and engine / trans are good . (in engine bay on engine ?, firewall pass side, both )

Check crank sensor tip for marks and if any check reluctor(flywheel) not loose falling off and itself as well .

Lead to believe all these can a cause misfire in P38 don`t know about rev specific , just ideas .

If it had a dissy at those revs the alternator wire route would be worth a look as would the rotor arm harmonics .

Also having a look in the dark with the bonnet up and engine running , if you see any sparkles that`s a good spot to look .

Cheers

[DT-P38]

Well, well, well! I thought a case of beer might motivate a few more responses than that... but it seems I should have offered a case of tea on AULRO instead! LOL!!!

Anyway, we have had a lovely warm holiday up in the NT and returned to "old mate" mechanic having gone AWOL. Apparently, he has some issues and too much going on to check her out and get things sorted. Poor Bugger.

Ahh well, never mind, will try to get her off to another expert for analysis next week. Hopefully a fix can be determined resonably quickly before all the warranties run out on the new stuff... I'm guessing we have already lost about 2 months off the short motor warranty...

Anyway, will let youz know what the outcome is and advise winner (if there is one)!!

Hoo Roo, Dave and the "pretty pig".

[johnlamont]

Failure of an engine to achieve good high RPM performance is often caused by poor mixture, however spark plugs are the most common cause. Pull the plugs and have a look at the colour. They should be a light tan. Change plugs for new ones of the correct heat range. John

[andrew e]

stepper motor or throttle pos sensor. (i am just guessing to get beer)

[HSE30]

I have had many P38's that will idle and run to 1500 to 3000 rev's on a faulty crank angle sensor. They cost about $60.00 worth throwing one in. Regards Russell.

[DT-P38]

Brief update from the new mechanic today has identified the likely issue as

CRANK ANGLE SENSOR!

The fix is happening on Monday and I will be picking the pretty pig up in the arvo. Straight after this I will be arranging a slab for HSE30! :beer:
What would be your prefered flavour HSE30? Also, please PM me your delivery address... if far north Queensland means Townsville, I have an old mate up there who could probably arrange drop off for me.

And there you have it! Well, fingers crossed that is the end of it all for now so I can get onto the other jobs like fitting Andrew E's EAS Bypass kit and that bloody big brake job of Russells that I still need to buy and do...

And then (he says day dreaming...) maybe some sexy stuff like bash plates, some home made off road bent pipe bars, one of those snorkels everyone keeps dreaming about, spot lights, led's, chrome strips, clear lenses, a new CD changer, roof repair and respray, blah, blah, blah...

Does it ever really end with these things?

[Hoges]

Just came across this thread... what model is your P38..i.e. is it a GEMS or Bosch EFI system. From what i have been able to determine the Bosch makeover has a CKPS which is virtually foolproof, but the GEMS CKPS is problematic due to its design...
interested to know

thanks and regards

Hoges

[DT-P38]

G'day Hoges, ;)

its a '95 so I am quite certain its LUCAS/GEMS. However, I really only assume this as thats how they are referred to and I have seen a lucas label on a part I replaced (MAF)... to be truthful I could not be certain as I haven't really got that much knowledge yet.

Am trying to improve that situation every day though!

HOO-ROO! :cool:

[willem]

G'day Hoges, ;)

its a '95 so I am quite certain its LUCAS/GEMS. However, I really only assume this as thats how they are referred to and I have seen a lucas label on a part I replaced (MAF)... to be truthful I could not be certain as I haven't really got that much knowledge yet.

Am trying to improve that situation every day though!

HOO-ROO! :cool:

Anything before MY 99 is Lucas/ GEMS. 99 on is the Bosch Thor system.

Willem