Once bitten...

[Leecewah]

Hello all,

We are a family of four about to become five and are therefore looking at upgrading the family sedan to a 7 seat 4WD. I love the look of the Disco 3 and really enjoyed the test drive, but just can't make a car a high enough priority to spend $80K odd on a new one.

So I am looking around for an 05/06 TDV6 SE model, my only concern is the question mark over reliability. I owned a 98 Freelander and whilst I loved the car, it was a complete lemon, with literally everything breaking that could over the 4 years I owned it, it cost me a small fortune to keep it on the road and I lost a packet when I sold it. More concerning was the fact that LR weren't particularly interested.

I swore I would never buy another LR again, yet here I find myself oggling the D3 brochure. So I am after some feedback from any 05/06 TDV6 owners about any problems they have experienced and what I should look out for when I inspect and drive them. I was hoping to get one in good nick for around $40K plus trade-in, can anyone tell me if that sounds feasible (redbook has them from $40,6K to $44,8K).

Any general comments on the 05/06 TDV6 would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Chris in Canberra

[abaddonxi]

Welcome, you've come to the right place.

You don't hear much bad of a D3.

Cheers
Simon

[lrdef110]

Hi Chris, I have a late 05 manufactured 06 purchased TDV6 SE, and have done just over 80,000km. This has definitely been one of the cheapest vehicles to operate I have ever owned. The only issues have been a blown turbo hose at about 50,000k and I had an issue with oil in the brake booster just recently which Land Rover rectified completely free of charge even though the vehicle was out of warranty. Some of the real early 05 D3's have had issues with compressors and other things but these issues appear to have been mostly sorted by 06. They are not the lemon the early Freelanders had the capacity to be, although you will probably find some owners have had problems, but thats a possibility with no matter what you buy. Would I buy one again - sure thing.
Best of luck.

[AnD3rew]

Land Rovers are strange things, I had a 300TDI Disco which threw a timing belt just out of warranty and destroyed the engine due to a known but not admiited manufacturing fault, and Land Rover were (Golly Gee Whizz) to deal with over that.

But then stupidly I went back and bought a TD5, which just about everything imaginable went wrong with and once again Land Rover were (Golly Gee Whizz.)

Now after another break I have just bought a new D3. Everyone tells me they are great now, but by all rights I should never ever go back to the brand, but I did. They must be addictive.

(Thank you moderators for editing my intemperate language)

[peterall]

My experience is similar to AnD3rew's ..had a 300 TDI which was a great vehicle to use but quite unreliable. I have had my TDV6 SE 06 for 12 months (purchased for $48K with 48K on the clock) and it has been the very model of reliablity, style etc. It is, by far, the best vehicle I have ever owned.... around town, in the rough stuff and towing it is great.

[CaverD3]

The D3 is a different beast. Go for the MY07 if you can as they changed the CANBUS to prevent cascde faults.

However anything will be better than the old Freelander.;)

[rovers1952]

my MY07 52,000 klms and 2.5 years (from new) and not a fault (touch wood)
....oh...a weeping front pinion seal...warranty fix (after 3000 ks of grueling dirt roads). Neither did I have a fault with my "03 TD5. But my '94 300TDi was a bit of a nightmare....but it took some punishment!

[rmp]

Good to see you can put your FL1 experience in context.

I actively advise people away from these vehicles, and judging by another thread, so do most others.

D3 is a different matter, I do recommend it and don't consider it unreliable at all.

Enjoy.

[Leecewah]

Thanks for all your comments Gents,

I have to agree with you AnD3rew, they must be addictive, my wife thinks that I must have rocks in my head to even consider forking over my hard earned for another LR.

My sensible side tells me that I should just buy a demonstrator Hyundai Santa Fe for the same amount and lap up the security of the 5 year warranty, but they are uninspiring to drive, don't have the space that I want, only fit 7 at a squeeze and can't be taken too far off road.

Considering I try to avoid being sensible at all costs, I will probably start the search for a used D3 soon (though we are not in a huge rush noting that bubba #3 isn't due until the end of the year, so it is tempting to wait and see if the D3 prices go down when the D4 is released...anyone know when that is likely to be??)

Standby for some foul langauge though if I cough up the dough again and get another lemon!!

Cheers,
Chris in Canberra

[stewmair]

Since 1965: 1 Mini, 2 Austin 1800s (one written of by colleague), 2 real RRs (3then 5 door), 1 Disco TDi, now Disco3 07. All did the Nullabor at least at first when bulldust, most seriously 4WDriven at times, desert and mountain, and not a lemon. Can't say that about a Holden Commodore (returned before warranty ran out) and a Peugeot 505..

[ozscott]

My Freelanders were pretty ordinary...I assume the new ones will be better. My D2 has 150k on it and has had an ABS Modulator replaced under warranty...new front springs and thats it. Very nice machine...V8.

Cheers

[norto]

Don't do it

[Tote]

Don't do it
On what basis do you make such an unhelpful comment? If you've got a D3 with issues we'd probably like to know. If you are just trolling please make your comments elsewhere. For the record following my experience I'd be happy to buy a second hand D3, although beating up a dealer for an extended warranty would be a consideration.
Tote

[norto]

For the record following my experience I'd be happy to buy a second hand D3, although beating up a dealer for an extended warranty would be a consideration.
Tote
Good for you.
Ive had 11 4x4s and the last 4 have been LRS or RRs my current one is a 2005 D3 with only 70k km and it is a piece of c@@p and i have extended warranty that runs out in 2.5 years, i'm 300km from a dealer so everytime i
have an issue i have to get the car to Sydney, leave it there, get home somehow then get back to pick it up. But thats not the major issue....its the total unreliability ive had from this car.
I will post a list of the problems shortly

[norto]

Here are a listof the problems i've had with my D3
Front scuttle replaced
Front diff replaced
Rear diff replaced
Upper steering column replaced
Lower steering column replaced
Turbo replaced
Transmission removed and repaired
Left and right lower control arms replaced
Battery replaced
New airbag wiring kit
Airbag cover replaced
Front decals replaced
Steering wheel replaced
Fuel filler release mechanism replaced
Brake pads replaced @ 40k
Hand brake adjusted twice

There are a few more problems i've had that i will post as they come to mind.:mad:

[CaverD3]

You have had a bad one Norto, you also have not got rid of it yet?
Also the early builds had more problems.
Get an MY07 or later most problem parts and the CANBUS sorted by then.

[norto]

Caver
I was looking at a Pajero because of the 10 year warranty
But i won't get enough for the D3....don't get me wrong
it is still the best 4x4 by far to drive

[mobyone]

Hi Chris,

I have an 05 SE and after nearly 4 years yrs it has been a joy to own/drive. I purchased the extended 3 yr warranty last year as a bit of insurance. I'm planning to upgrade at the end of this year (D4:cool:) and will sell my car with about 2 years of extended warranty remaining. So the moral of the story is keep an eye out for a good one with extended warranty and you can't go wrong.

Cheers
Moby

[Leecewah]

Thanks again Gents for all your comments.

I think that there are enough reliability issues (from the comments below and from other sources) for me to err on the side of caution and avoid LR in my next car purchase.

Cheers,
Chris

[CaverD3]

Get a Toyota LC200 and see how many problems you get.:o

D3 are generally much more reliable than D2s though.

[BigJon]

Here are a listof the problems i've had with my D3

Front diff replaced
Rear diff replaced


Left and right lower control arms replaced
Battery replaced
New airbag wiring kit
Airbag cover replaced

Fuel filler release mechanism replaced

Hand brake adjusted twice



I saw all those things being done under warranty when I worked at a Dealer.

Diffs were replaced because the seals aren't replaceable :eek:.


None of those things would stop the vehicle (with the possible exception of the battery).

[Leo]

The earlier ones (2005 &6) had their fair share of issues, but the later models are as reliable as any of the japs, not to mention much better looking. :cool:

The 2010 Prado has to be the ugliest 4x4 I've seen this side of a Ssangyong.

[norto]

I am looking at trading mine on a 2008 D3......hopefully most of the problems are sorted by then

[rmp]

D3s are reliable. A few lemons don't disprove the rule, you get that anywhere.

Now the D2 and FL1...now we're talking unreliable.

[CaverD3]

I think leecewah will be missing out on the best $x4 in world and one that will meet his needs: carrying seven in luxury. :D

[TerryO]

Leo,

I'm also in the market for a Disco but presently own a SsangYong Rexton II, which I intend to keep tll the day it dies.

The funny thing is people often bag out SsangYongs as being ugly or piles of junk which from first hand experience and several hundred thousand kilometres of driving and towing I can tell you they are not.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I admit, but when it comes to reliability and cost of running I can tell you the Rexton is quite amazing at how little it costs to run and how reliable it is. I have owned three Rextons and two Musso 4x4 crew cabs over the last four years mainly through an old sponsorship deal I had with the then importer. Not one of these vehicles ever let me down once nor did one of them need any warrenty work.

The Musso's would go practically anywhere any other 4x4 would go as well apart from the really narly places. The Rexton is only really a soft SUV but it can tow huge loads easilly and the fuel consumption is truly great, plus it is a 7 seater. The Limited Edtion model Rextons had a level of luxury and electronic gizmo's that very few 4x4 at double the price have, plus they are not slow for a diesel.
I know this is a LR website but there are some other good vehicles out there that do a reasonable job and cost basically very little to own. SsangYong is one of those companies that produce such vehicles.

The one thing that really hurts new SsangYong owners is resale value but this makes them exceptional buying for people looking for a cheap second hand second car that is extremely versatile.


Now back to looking for my second vehicle which will be a LR.

Cheers,
Terry O'Neill

[norto]

Terry
The best thing about LR is the driving experience.....especially in the D3

[TerryO]

Having driven several D3 and D2's I agree with your comments Norto about how good Landrovers are to drive and to be frank that is the main reason why I will buy one.

I nearly brought the black V8 HSE that Oz Ducati recently brought but even though it was a very good price and a really nice example I must admit I didn't find it light years ahead of the late model low K D2's I have driven recently.

As I now live on a farm with a couple of k's of pot holed dirt road from the front gate to the house what ever I buy will end up covered in muck and poo very quickly and will live outside in the elements. Another good reason for not buying anything black.

As many regulars on this website have owned both D2's and D3's I would like to ask people what they really think of any comparison between a 03/04 V8 D2 compared to the early model V8 D3's?

It is reasonably easy to pick up a low k very nice V8 D2 for about the 20k...ish mark. A similar early model D3 with similar k's for about 40k...ish. Obviously one is at least double the price of the other.

So is a early model D3 twice the car of a late model D2 with similar k's and both being V8's?

What ever I buy won't see much true off road work if any and will do lots of highway k's with some towing. I have driven a six cylinder SE D3 and found it truly ordinary. I do very much like the V8 D3 though.

I'd appreciate any of your thoughts and experiences that you feel inclined to share with me ladies and gentlemen.

Regards,
Terry O'Neill

[CaverD3]

I am surprised that you did not think the D3 was way better tha the D2. Having had both I really notice the diference.
If it was the V6 petrol you drove then the engine is noisy and gives the same performance as th V8 D2. The diesel V6 is quieter. :BigThumb: But in all other espects it is a different vehicle.
Take a D3 to the farm for test drive and see how you feel after on and off road.:D
If you want power then the V8 is very nice.:)

[rovers1952]

Not had a petrol experience but my '03 TD5 and my '07 TDV6 are light years apart in comfort, smarts, sophistication whilst achieving similar fuel economy..... in favour of the TDV6 of course. Oh...and in an urban environment, the TDV6 turning circle is stunning (impresses SWMBO)

[TerryO]

The 05 six cylinder SE D3 I drove was a petrol model and felt truly horrible, apart from being noisy and harsh it didn't ride as well as the V8's I've driven, it bumped all over the place, might have something to do with spring rates and dampening being set up for the heavier V8 possibly?

I know the D3 is a much better thing then the last of the D2's but what I'm asking is it really double the car and thus worth double the money?

Looking at it using my limited knowledge of both models I'd have to say both cars look very good, both cars drive well, both V8's have roughly similar fuel economy under similar driving conditions. The D3 has higher equipment levels, I'm guessing for the same model equivalent. The D3 has a superior cabin in size and dynamics and the D3 V8 is more powerful, but is it really worth double the money?

I was trying to compare the early 2005 D3's as I'm not in the market for a late model D3 no matter how much better they might be. That is if they are actually more refined or better then the first model?

The other consideration is a LR specialist told me recently that it is definately cheaper to keep a D2 on the road then a similar model D3 obviously the vehicles I'm looking at are out of warrenty.


Regards,
Terry O'Neill

[CaverD3]

You may find a D3 with an extended warranty still on it.
Remember that you re-sale will be higher on the D3.
Given what you are using it for you would be better witha V8 D3. Try looking for one of the V8s that came without the rear seats as you may not need them.

[TerryO]

Thanks Caver I've decided to go down the D2 path partly given that what ever I buy will live outside on a farm. I can justify to myself a cheaper and older D2 getting scratched and always being mucky but not a relatively more expensive D3 copping the same abuse. If I still lived in town then I'd buy the D3.

Anyway thank you for the input.

Regards,
Terry O'Neill

[scarry]

Have owned D2's for the last 10yrs,and had the use of a D3 for a week recently,TDV6.The D3 is way nicer than the D2,bigger,more comfortable,quieter,smoother,quicker,etc.

Money wise the D2 is way ahead,cheaper to keep on the road.

The D2 is still a damn good vehicle,particularly the MY03 ones.

I havent upgraded as mine only has 70k on it,& why pay 75k+ for a vehicle if the one i have has nothing wrong with it & ticks all the boxes at the moment.
I would also rather take the D2 on the OTT up the cape than a new D4,which is the one i would get.

The more you spend on a vehicle,the more you will loose when you get rid of it.

Good luck with your decision....

[ozscott]

It might be just me but bigjon's post above is enough to stop be "upgrading" from my D2 to a D3 - cant replace differential seals! My god I thought front universals instead of the D1's swivel hubs were bad enough on the D2...!

[rmp]

It might be just me but bigjon's post above is enough to stop be "upgrading" from my D2 to a D3 - cant replace differential seals! My god I thought front universals instead of the D1's swivel hubs were bad enough on the D2...!

It shouldn't be. You'll find examples of lemons with every make and model. What you need to look for a consistent pattern of faults. You'll find that with FL1, and dare I say D2. Not with D3. BigJon's post should be just one you add into the mix of many.

Another pro-D3 factor is far improved safety.

But the D2 may be a better bet as it'll be less expensive to buy and probably to run.

[ozscott]

no - the point is not about lemons but serviceability after warranty...diff seals not being available is absurd...as is having to replace the D2 half shaft with CV instead of servicable joints but the point is that every later model of LR becomes more absurd and insanely expensive to run out of warranty...

[CaverD3]

The diff seals went for particular reason (oil contamination due to the coating on the diff housing) and the seals can be replaced as LRSA are supplying re-conditioned diffs instead. LR ar just good with their warranty as the contamination of the diff oil could cause more problems so it is easier to replace the whole diff unit. With Toyota you would be fighting to get the seals replaced for only a small leak of oil.
The diffs are now coated with a different product (black instaed of clear)
A lot of the D3 parts are actually cheaper than th D2's eg brake disks.
If something major goes wrong it can be expensive but the same for any vehicle especially 4WDs. Ever checked out Toybota prices?

[TerryO]

It's what is called built in obsolesence. Having looked at many new vehicles lately especially european makes they are becoming more and more throw away cars once they hit a certain age and k's.

The reason I believe this is it will be very hard and expensive to service them especially with all the electronic gear they are stuffing in them now.

If you want an example of ridiculous parts prices look at a VW Tourag. The first ones side mirrors are reportedly about $2500 each! This was enough to scare me off of buying one second hand. The vehicle itself is one of if not the nicest things I've ever driven. It makes the D3 feel like a old tractor in comparision. The driving and level of luxury inside one of the up spec v8's is brilliant, the petrol comsumption would scare an Arab oil shiek out of owning one though.
But you can just tell that it would be a nightmare cost wise to service and buy parts for out of warranty with all the gizmo's fitted to it, so I gave the VW a wide birth.

I keep hearing the D3 will end up being much more expensive to service then a D2. So for a number of reasons I'm buying a D2 and I won't mind to much if the cows decide to chew bits off of it or give themselves a good scratch on it.

Regards,
Terry O'Neill

[gghaggis]

Like Caver's, I don't think the D3 is particularly expensive to repair. The point about the diff seals isn't that they _cannot_ be replaced, but that LR were replacing the entire assembly (at their cost) to ensure no further claims. In part this was probably a reaction to loss of consumer confidence in the Defender diffs that were failing.

I replaced an entire rear suspension strut - air-bag, shockie etc - for around $700. I thought that was pretty good. A complete new fuel tank, with lift pumps, filters etc was around $1500. I replaced the front wheel flares (black ones) for around $250 for the pair!

Maybe people should phone their local LR dealer and enquire on the spare parts prices. Sure, there may be one or two outrageously priced items (and every manufacturer has those), but in general they're not as expensive as some of you believe. And for the out-of-warranty, extreme-penny-counters, you can alway order parts from the UK, which are generally at a lower cost.

Cheers,

Gordon

[bruiser69]

Like Caver's, I don't think the D3 is particularly expensive to repair. The point about the diff seals isn't that they _cannot_ be replaced, but that LR were replacing the entire assembly (at their cost) to ensure no further claims. In part this was probably a reaction to loss of consumer confidence in the Defender diffs that were failing.

I replaced an entire rear suspension strut - air-bag, shockie etc - for around $700. I thought that was pretty good. A complete new fuel tank, with lift pumps, filters etc was around $1500. I replaced the front wheel flares (black ones) for around $250 for the pair!

Maybe people should phone their local LR dealer and enquire on the spare parts prices. Sure, there may be one or two outrageously priced items (and every manufacturer has those), but in general they're not as expensive as some of you believe. And for the out-of-warranty, extreme-penny-counters, you can alway order parts from the UK, which are generally at a lower cost.

Cheers,

Gordon

I was considering the purchase of a D3 TDV6 (05-07) until I read that the diff seals can't be replaced. This is crazy!
I use my D2 TD5 mainly on sand and clay (consistency of bulldust) tracks on Stradbroke Island, and the seals take a hiding.
Has anyone worked out how to replace the seals?

Cheers..B

[gghaggis]

I was considering the purchase of a D3 TDV6 (05-07) until I read that the diff seals can't be replaced. This is crazy!

Cheers..B

Who told you that the seals can't be replaced?? All I said was that (for vehicles still under warranty), LR are generally replacing the whole unit. That's their choice (and one that most customers are happy with). You can buy a seal and replace it yourself if you want (instructions are on the LR GTR site). Or have a service agent do it for you.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Leo]

edit: Gordon beat me to it.

[ozscott]

I saw all those things being done under warranty when I worked at a Dealer.

Diffs were replaced because the seals aren't replaceable :eek:.


None of those things would stop the vehicle (with the possible exception of the battery).


This is a post from this thread....from a person who worked at a stealers...."the seals arent replaceable". Has anyone got a part number and availability for the diff seals?

[ozscott]

Bruiser - I spend a fair bit of time camping at Flinders with my D2 V8...dont let the D2 go mate!

Cheers

[gghaggis]

This is a post from this thread....from a person who worked at a stealers...."the seals arent replaceable". Has anyone got a part number and availability for the diff seals?

Apparently LR don't list the seal as a spare part, but the aftermarket and diff guys do - UK D3 owners (eg "Bodsy" on disco3.uk) have bought and replaced the seals. And LR list the procedure for replacing a seal. I think that pretty much shows that there is no reason why you can't do it. If you own a D3 and need to have them replaced, I'm sure I could look it up for you.

Cheers,

Gordon

[bruiser69]

Bruiser - I spend a fair bit of time camping at Flinders with my D2 V8...dont let the D2 go mate!

Cheers

Yeah, I might upgrade to late 04/05 TD5. These are very good value & have advantage of locking centre diff for towing camper trailer up the so called 'entrances' to camps along Main Beach, now that is so badly eroded.

Cheers..B:)

[ozscott]

Mate - I have towed into Flinders plenty of times including a 23 foot dual axle van (road tryes on the van) and have been into those powdery entrances to Main many times unladen and always with stock 29 inch tyres...I went to 31 inch a while ago and took on Fraser at its dryest and it ate it up including Indian Head - dead set amazing an a manual too. I dont have CDL, so if you havent tried bigger tyres give that a go before worrying too much about CDL matey. The difference between stock and taller tyres is huge. I had a mate with an 03 manual V8 but with diff lock as standard with me at Fraser and he didnt do it any easier...it would be of some help I guess (having a 95 auto with it also) but with the bigger tyres I reckon there is literally nothing to it.

Cheers

[gghaggis]

Mate - I have towed into Flinders plenty of times including a 23 foot dual axle van (road tryes on the van) and have been into those powdery entrances to Main many times unladen and always with stock 29 inch tyres...I went to 31 inch a while ago and took on Fraser at its dryest and it ate it up including Indian Head - dead set amazing an a manual too. I dont have CDL, so if you havent tried bigger tyres give that a go before worrying too much about CDL matey. The difference between stock and taller tyres is huge. I had a mate with an 03 manual V8 but with diff lock as standard with me at Fraser and he didnt do it any easier...it would be of some help I guess (having a 95 auto with it also) but with the bigger tyres I reckon there is literally nothing to it.

Cheers
<RANT ON>
Oh give us a break - mate. I had a D1 on 35's that'd eat a D2 for breakfast etc etc etc ...... do you want me to go on (and on and on and on) about how better off I was with the D1?? You've been doing this for the last 2 years. Have you actually bought a D3? Or driven one??

None of this is the point. The D3 is a good 4WD. It's new tech. Like ANY new 4WD (including the D2 when it was the current model), it's pricey to service and repair. But no more than any other NEW 4WD. If that's too much, stick to an older model. There's nothing wrong with that. But stop scaremongering on the D3 site and then ignoring the answers to the questions you ask.

<RANT OFF>

Cheers (hic),

Gordon

[ozscott]

Mate - you are on a bender....I saw your answer and hope you are right about diff seals. I was responding to a post above from someone at a dealer SAYING that they were NOT available - hope you are right. As for my experience I have owned the 95 D1 for 7 years now and my 02 D2 since new....and before that have driven many 4wds of all brands...I have used 4wds including my own off road extensively. My point to the gentleman from cleveland was that CDL is not necessarily a big thing when considering selling his non CDL D2 just for another slightly later D2 WITH CDL....you need to read better, re-read, then turn on your own filter before posting.

Cheers:D

PS. And please dont assume that someone's experience with 4wds and LRs is limited to the joining date on this forum (as you have assumed in your post) because you can end up looking a little silly to be honest

[CaverD3]

I think Gordon was more refering to your earlier thread. :angel:

The diff seal question was answered earlier. It is just that LR go the extra mile to fix things. If LRSA are getting theirs re-conditioned then the seals must be available.

Those who have D3s generally love them and even Norto who had an earlier build with lots of problems is getting another one. :D The vehicle is that good.
New vehicles are more expensive to buy, if you can't or don't want to afford it fair enough.

[bruiser69]

Ok now I am confused. Does anyone have a D3 service manual that shows how to replace diff seals?
I didn't want to start an argument as to whether D2 or D3 was the best vehicle, just don't want any nasty surprises if I do go with D3.
I thought waiting 12 months after D2 TD5 was released would be sufficient to find out any inherent bugs..LOL.. I got the lot! Oil in injector harness (twice), ABS modulator shuttle valve, ABS sensor harness, but still love my D2 & it has never left me stranded. I have to hand it to LR that they fixed these under warranty even when warranty had expired.
I would never buy a new vehicle again until at least 2 years after release & reading every forum on model first.
I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has a D3 TDV6 05/06 to find out any issues that they have had as well as general running & servicing costs.

Cheers..B

[Leo]

Ok now I am confused. Does anyone have a D3 service manual that shows how to replace diff seals?
Cheers..B

It's all in the on-line GTR (Land Rover Global Technical Reference) site. The Dana supplied diffs are generally problem free on these, apart from a batch that suffered from contamination due to paint peeling on the inside of the casings. These are/were replaced under the following TSB:



Models
LM - New Range Rover
LA - Discovery 3
LS - Range Rover Sport

Title Front & Rear Differential Noise & Oil Leaks
Last Modified 03-MAR-2009 12:23
Category: Driveline
Symptom: 509000 Axle Concerns
Content: Front & Rear Differential Noise, Minor Oil Seal Leak & Debris in Oil.

Concern: Noise (Whine or humming) from the front or rear differential. A minor oil leak may be evident with possible debris in oil. Oil will be black in color.

Cause: The casing black paint /sealer degrades, detaches and contaminates the oil.
This results in the oil overheating which results in oil seal leaks and bearing noise.
Note: Differentials from the VINs quoted below are manufactured with a new casing paint which overcomes the above mentioned issues.

Please only raise an EPQR for differential issues which occur post the quoted VIN numbers:

Discovery 3 LR3 - LA8A459201
Range Rover Sport - LS8A141510
Range Rover. LM8A268394

[CaverD3]

http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/11257/Diff%20detail%20GTR.pdf

There you go.:D

[ozscott]

Caver - dont know what thread you are referring to. Please understand though that I love LRs and that includes, funnily enough, the D3 but as an ownership proposition (out of warranty) they keep getting more expensive (and often without good cause)...and seeing that post about the diff seals from someone who worked at a dealer exacerbated my view of that...lets face it if someone posted on the D2 forum who owned a D1 and wanted to know what the D2 was like I would praise its ability etc on one hand but warn him that on the other hand the D1s didnt face insanely expensive and frequent (150,000k) replacement of front CVs and half shaft because the D1 has proper swivel housings as a live axel vehicle should have and their front drive shafts dont seem to suffer like the D2's do pontentially without warning and then causing a hole in the transmission when it lets go...you see there has to be balance. On this D3 thread I wonder if SOME not all writers have forgotten that - surely if someone with an earlier model wants feedback they want it warts and all...

Also its not about whether you can afford it or want to afford it, but more so about informed decisions. So, if it were the case as Bigjon posted that you couldnt get diff seals, surely a potential owner would want to know that...and dont forget that many owners hang onto their machines out of warranty and want to know what the real costs of same are (including if needs be down the track the costs of major items like engine re-conditioning and transmissions etc), they are not just lease scrollers who become forum sages on the latest and greatest machines...

Cheers

[CaverD3]

Sorry, post not thread. :angel:

The questions asked on here have been answered by those who have and know D3s and are happy to do so. Both positive and negative comments have been made.
Those who bought D3s made an informed decision after researching their options.
What you were told by the dealer has been corrected by a few on this forum.
THE SEALS CAN BE REPLACED.
You need to compare like with like, if you are looking for a new LR then you get a D3 or defender or RRS or RR (or D4?).
Other brand which are new vehicles are as expensive or more expensive to repair. With the D3 now five years old there are aftermarket options coming out like the did for the D2.
If you want second hand there are many options including a D3.
Affordabiliity is not just about purchce but as you pointed out, upkeep, if you not wish to pay for both you won't buy it.
If you wish to discuss D2s maybe the D2 section would be the place to post your knowledge of that model LR.

PS Reconditioned TDV6 from LR is about $6000, not bad for a modern diesel.

[norto]

Caver
Is that a ball park price or hearsay....sounds cheap

[CaverD3]

Dealer said just over the $6K it was being put in a D3 with >25,000km onit that had blown (water in the manifold) it had had a hard life it was a a hire car for off road work as well as guided trips, lot of Stockton trips worked hard. Had a good layer of mud too.:D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/63.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/64.jpg

I don't think they paid for the arduous service shedule though.;)

[ozscott]

Caver - I was discussing the D2 because of a post about same from another member and my original post on page 2 about the D2 was in support of the proposition that the newer discoveries were much more reliable than the early Freelanders...if you are suggesting that it is remiss for me to post about a D2 when part of the question from another member is that their D2 does not have diff lock and when they are wondering whether to go to a later D2 with diff lock or not or go to a D3 then I suggest that is misplaced. I think someone above got a bit overly sensitive about my post - and because I dont have a D3 that seems to make some people jumpy; they are all LRs.

As for $6k - if you gave me a written quote from a reputable diesel reconditioner I would be doing cartwheels and I would be inclined to a diesel if I ever went D3/D4 but to be honest having been around workshops a bit over my time (my family are all mechanics and diesel fitters and 4wd shop owners) I doubt the veracity of what you were told...to give you an example a second hand small capacity nissan TD from the wreckers with relatively low ks (150k) and no warranty save that it will start and run is about $15,000. I have seen the bills first hand of what it costs to recondition a relatively low tech 95 D1 Tdi - $20,000 without turbo. I know that some inroads havebeen made in recent years with reconditioning diesels but I really doubt that it would be 6k mate. But hey, if it is terrific and more power to D3 owners I say. Having said all that it depends on the condition of the engine, the reason for the reco and what needs replacing - in the $20k ex the injectors all needed replacing.

Cheers

[Warrigal57]

In response to Leecewah and Bruiser69: "I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has a D3 TDV6 05/06 to find out any issues that they have had as well as general running & servicing costs."

I own a 2006 D3 TDV6. Very happy with the vehicle in all respects, and it has been very reliable after 85,000km. This includes several Fraser Island, Cape Yorke and Simpson trips.

The D3 went into limp home mode on one occasion due to a wiring fault with the second battery - when cable for the second battery rubbed through and shorted on the chassis (in the rain) - no fault of the vehicle just poor aftermarket installation.

Experienced some rear diff noise around the 75,000K mark. Due to a fluid leak at the seal according to the dealer - repaired under warranty. No diff noise since.

General servicing costs appear reasonable, though some of the major services are expensive eg the vehicle will soon need replacement brake pads and I have been quoted $1360 by the Brisbane dealer - which appears exorbitant and I will be looking elsewhere.

But overall, very happy with the vehicle. Cheers.

[CaverD3]

There appears to be a conistant high quote price from Brisbane dealers are there more than one?

That price should include all the discs too.:o

[ozscott]

There is Bruce Lytton down the coast and a dealer in Toowoomba. I have heard good things about BL. When the vehicle is out of warranty you may want to consider MR Automotive at Redcliffe but you will need to see if they have the software for the D3 (they have for the D2).

Cheers

[gghaggis]

Ozscott,

Apologies if my earlier rant came across as overly abrasive.

However, you are trying to advise someone on the relative merits of owning and paying for a D3 vs an older LR (a D2). You have never had a D3, so I'm unsure as to where you get your info. But you do seem to take any D3 horror story as literal truth and then imply denial when anyone tries to correct you ("I hope your right" or "If that's true" etc etc) - both here and earlier on the Discoweb site. If you were a 'Yota owner, I'd suspect you of trolling;)

Many D3 owners _have_ owned earlier LRs, and are hence in a better position to comment on the comparitive costs, benifits etc. I acknowledge that there is often a biased overtone from current owners - there always is and always has been. It's up to the reader to determine whether this is warranted or not. One needs to separate the facts (or facts from reported experiences) from the (often unintended) hype.

So to close, so as there is no confusion - per paragraph, facts first, hype next:

1. The D3 is mechanically extremely ruggedly built. From my experience in breaking down and rebuilding RR Classic's, County's, Defender's, D1's and yes, D3's, I would have no hesitation in claiming them to be one of the strongest drivetrains put into an LR.

2. There was a batch of D3 diffs that had a coating that contaminated the diff. LR's response was to replace the diffs under warranty for owners concerned about diff noise or leakage. A pretty decent action, I thought.

3. The diff seals are commonly available in the UK. As I've never had a diff problem, I cannot comment on their availability here, but if LRA or Dana can't supply, I'm sure Rovacraft can. Else buy online from UK. The procedure for changing the seals is delineated on the GTR web-site, as is all service and repair procedures.

4. The D3 is no more expensive to maintain than any other new 4WD. In my experience, in many areas it is cheaper (air springs, body trim, CV's). In a couple (eg EPB module) it is up in 'Yota territory!

5. The D3 is (in general) no more expensive to maintain than an older LR, if you only did it through a dealer. But as there are more independents doing the older LR's (and providing aftermarket parts), it can be cheaper to run and maintain an older LR than a second-hand D3 out of warranty. This would apply to any brand of car.

6. One real advantage of a second-hand D3 though, is that due to the ability to electronically configure the vehicle, many upgrades that were applied to newer builds can be (and usually are, free of charge) applied to the earlier builds. I know of no other 4WD where this is possible.

Hope this is clearer.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Neil P]

.... The D3 is no more expensive to maintain than any other new 4WD......

It's interesting that you should point this out to Forum readers Gordon.
After reading recent posts here about D3 service charges , I made a few
phone calls around Cairns to check other marques. I had a LC100 V8
Sahara for 2 years before the D3 , and had kept records of service costs.
It was most revealing to discover that 4X4 charges had skyrocketed ,
whilst car sevice costs for our other vehicles had stayed the same for
2 years. Now , here's the kicker ; A LR "source" informed me that it's all
to do with who's good for being screwed and who's not. You've got
a vehicle in the high 5 figures and you can pay. Go figure ..........

[rmp]

Makes good business sense to me.

[ozscott]

Thanks Gordon. I guess I am somewhat jaded about the direction that ALL new vehicles are heading in terms of complexity...and often for only very modest gains or in an attempt to cover all bases. The D3 is undoubtably an amazing vehicle. When I say things like "I hope your right" im not being disengenous because I actually do hope that the D3s have less problems than what is sometimes reported and are easier to fix than the complexity first presents (and for that matter easier to source discreet parts for than is sometimes presented)...because one day I might even get one. One thing that is clear is that having blokes that are passionate (as you are) about the D3 is good for everyone because you get to the bottom of what can be done and done cheaper in terms of maintenance...and for that matter what can be done to ensure better longevity.

Cheers

[ozscott]

Neil - I think there is no doubt that some dodgy places do add a shiny pants or shiny expensive 4wd charge...

Cheers

[ash333]

I am new to the Land Rover brand and have owned my 2009 D3 for about 2 weeks. I was concerned about quality because of what I read on the internet and a friends experience with a Freelander. So far i can say my D3 is performing very well, nothing has fallen off and everything is working as expected. Fingers crossed it stays that way.

Cheers,
Ash

[norto]

ash
Most of the problems would have been sorted in your
model.......just enjoy it.

[Neil P]

..... owned my 2009 D3 for about 2 weeks ..........nothing has fallen off and everything is working as expected.......

Give it a chance , most work well for at least 28 days or your money back
and a $100 fuel voucher for your troubles ............:lol2:

[ash333]

14 days of trouble free motoring to go :)

[ozscott]

You will get in trouble Neil:)

[Neil P]

You will get in trouble Neil:)

Nay , I'm a D3 Boy ........ :cool:

[TerryO]

Some five odd pages of posts ago on the original topic I asked what I thought would be a simple question regarding D2's v D3's and is a D3 twice the car of a D2 just as it is in cost secondhand?

That little innocent question has sparked all kinds of interesting discussions back and forth. I must admit I've enjoyed reading the banter and the occassional rock throwing exercise.

Anyway as of yesterday (Thursday) I have purchased a 2003 V8 HSE which is a little rough around the edges however it goes very nicely and is an absolute pleasure to drive.

You were right Norto the real fun is in the driving.

Anyway gentlemen thank you for the entertaining banter. I hope in the future I get to ask another question or two which helps stimulate similar levels of discussion.

Regards,
Terry O'Neill

[Neil P]

Terry,

Is your purchase the 7 seat rear air susp and round-style headlights D2 ?

[spudboy]

...I was concerned about quality because of what I read on the internet and a friends experience with a Freelander.

You can't extrapolate anything to do with a Freelander to a new D3....

[TerryO]

Yes Neil it is the round style headlight model.

At the same time I also checked out the maroon 2001 ES that is advertised in the 'Market' section of this website. That to was a nice vehicle but the owner and I couldn't come to a compromise deal on a sale price. So I went back and drove the HSE for a second time and haggled what I consider was a good deal.

I must admit now I'm glad I brought the HSE even though it was a reasonable amount more dollar wise then the ES.

I answered my own question relating to the D2 v D3 in the end. The D3 V8 is a magic vehicle but I couldn't justify paying twice the money for a early D3. I'm glad though I didn't cut the budget to much though and buy the ES.

I contacted Pedro a couple of times and asked his opinion on several important things I needed to know and he helped me considerably. Thank you Pedro for taking the time to explain to a newbie which way is up and which way is down.

The only problem I have now is I don't want to stop driving the bloody thing I'm enjoying it that much.

:-)

Regards,
Terry O'Neill

[CaverD3]

:BigThumb: Sounds like you went for the good model, like the D3 most issues sorted in later builds.
I loved driving my D2, there's something about landrovers that make you smile when you drive them.:D

[Desert Traveller]

D2 to D3.
Its as if they were designed and manufactured by different companies. The quality improvements, on and off road handling and abilty are so different. FL1 is back in the D1 class unfortunately. I advised my daughter to buy a Suzi instead of a FL1 and I love my LR's.
My D3 has over 100k on the clock, it is a MY06 TDV6 SE and the only reason I'd get rid of it is to get a D4 3.0 litre TDV6.
Try and get a MY07.

[Neil P]

.....The only problem I have now is I don't want to stop driving the bloody thing I'm enjoying it that much.......

You obviously don't have too much traffic either....... queuing in
anything is crap ........:lol2:

[TerryO]

Neil I can't say that Goulburn or its surrounds are usually thought of as a high traffic area.

;-)

Cheers,
Terry O'Neill