Alternative to hand winch - hi-lift jack

[Cap]

Been reading up on the uses of the hi-lift jack, and im very suprised at the accessories that are available now days. Im thinking that the use of a high lift for the purposes of winching is not a bad idea, after all, most times you only need a few feet of winching to get you on your way (unless of corse your stuck down a clay valley (see Pelverata Horribilis thread).

Has anyone else used the hi-lift as a hand winch? I figure it would be cheaper than a hand winch but also provide more uses too. I have read threads on here about the hi-lift and what a PITA they are... but wanted to know with the latest offering if this mindset has changed.

Interesting read about the hi-lift at Hi-Lift Jacks and Hi-Lift Recovery Gear -- EE -- Expedition Exchange Incorporated (http://www.expeditionexchange.com/hilift/)

Cheers,

[waynep]

Many years ago I made up a kit to turn a Hi Lift into a winch. It worked (sort of ) but was a a pain to set up and operate. I practised using it at home but never used it in earnest in the bush.
The main problem is you only get to winch the length of the jack and then you have to block the vehicle and re set everything.

I now have MaxTrax and a Tirfor. The Hi Lift stays in the shed these days.

[Cap]

I was reading up too that with a hi-lift and a hand winch you most likely dont need an electric winch to get you out of trouble... you only need time and patience!

Maxtrax are another good addition too... although by the time one finishes adding all this recovery gear you got a lot more weight on the vehicle :o

[**Discovery300Tdi**]

Mate never doubt the good old hand winch!!!

I have a magnum hand winch and they are bloody good :thumbsup:and the thing is that its not that much of hard work needed, if anything its alot more fun getting your rig out. Also got one X-Tracks from bushranger there pretty good as well.

cheers simon

[waynep]

I was reading up too that with a hi-lift and a hand winch you most likely dont need an electric winch to get you out of trouble... you only need time and patience!

Maxtrax are another good addition too... although by the time one finishes adding all this recovery gear you got a lot more weight on the vehicle :o

MaxTrax don't weigh much. Maybe 10 kg.

A Tirfor and wire rope weighs no more than a fixed electric winch. Very versatile piece of kit.

[windsock]

Many years ago I made up a kit to turn a Hi Lift into a winch. It worked (sort of ) but was a a pain to set up and operate. I practised using it at home but never used it in earnest in the bush.
The main problem is you only get to winch the length of the jack and then you have to block the vehicle and re set everything.

I now have MaxTrax and a Tirfor. The Hi Lift stays in the shed these days.

Use a 60 inch hi lift a lot. Use it to get the truck wheels aligned with ruts if I get crossed up, use it to lift out of 'pea' gravel in river beds and drive off the jack. I have even spread the chassis apart to get the gearbox out

Use it as a winch with a home made kit. You actually need two lengths of chain off the hilift. One attached to the vehicle or load being pulled, and he other short length hanging off the end of the hilift with a snig-chain hook on it. You get to the end of the jack on the pull, and then you use the snig-hook to fix the pulled load to the end of the jack, let the jack 'down' slide to maximum travel again, take up the load and start pulling again. Kind of hard to describe and I am looking in my picture folder to see if I have anything of value there. If not, I'll set it up on the concrete floor and take a shot.

Only problem I have with the winch thus, is time. If I am stuck in a situation that is time-critical, i.e. in a river, then the time taken to set up and pull can be the difference between rescue and salvage... :o I usually have the hilift all set as a winch to go if I am doing river work. That way if I get stuck in the water, it is a 'quiker process to get hooked up and moving. I have 8 20mm x 500mm mild steel rods with eyes on the end to drive/hammer into the river bed somewhere ahead if no readily available anchor is around. In all it takes 5-15 minutes from stop to first crank of the handle if I am all sorted before getting stuck.

In this situation you can't beat the speed and ease o an electric but I stuffed my last electric winch up in the river... ;)

Tirfors are great but can only pull. With the hilift I have a tool that'll do that and lift, and push and...

[Cap]

Thanks for your replies. I think I much prefer to spend the $$ on a hi-lift and a hand winch before an electric. I too have an electric with a stuffed motor due to water/mud... now I think if I was in the middle of nowhere and it failed, what then?? At least a manually operated winch can get you out, and slow is better than not at all.

If you can get some pics of the hi-lift set up windsock, that would be very helpfull.

Cheers,

[101RRS]

I tried using a hi lift jack as a winch once - hooked up all ok but due to the short length of the winch all I did was take up the slack in the rope I was doing before it was time to disconnect and reset - even when I tried using some chain - all the hi lift jack did was take the slack up.

Now if you used a block and tackle to take up the tension of the winch cable and then connect to the hi lift then it might work better.

Might be Ok if your anchor was only a few feet away but overall I thought it impractical as a winch - I would look at other alternatives.

Garry

[windsock]

OK, finally got back online (faulty server) with photos.

First up, realigning track in the ruts. Slippery stuff and many ruts while cornering can lead to getting crossed up on some of the local tracks...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/11/645.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/830.jpg

No problems with 60 inches of lift and the right angles...

Now the winch part. Always use non-stretch chains or straps otherwise that will be all you do is use up precious calories stretching a rope. :p I carry two lengths of chain, and can hook up the configuration below in whatever place I find stable between load and anchor point.

First have the right configuration of chain.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/831.jpg
This shows the fitting onto the lift part. Also in that picture you can see my permanent home made 'holding' chain. More on that further down.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/832.jpg
Pulling chain must be longer than holding chain for reason obvious down further.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/833.jpg
Start of the pull... you can see my holding chain rattling around in the gravity.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/834.jpg
End of A pull, not the last pull most likely several more pulls to go if I have anything to do with it... :angel: Fix the holding chain in place and release the load onto it. As below.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/835.jpg
Hook the holding chain to the pulled load chain, and undo the pulling chain by letting 'down' the jack one or two clicks.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/836.jpg
Slide the lift down to take another bite of the pulling chain, take the weight of the load, and disconnect the holding chain... and away you go again... reliable as a good back and a strong arm.

If the back is crook and the arm is weak then even driving off road should be a problem also. :wasntme: I actually have a crook back and can still carefully do the above exercise without busting it further.

Before you know it you are warm, unstuck, and ready for a cold one, much shoulder slapping all round... ;) Of if you are on your own like I am most of the time, a lot of 'blue' muttering about mud etc... :mad: :D

As far as the anchor. If there is nothing 'natural' I use rods of steel as mentioned above. Driven into the ground in either straight line or a 'V' confiiguration and then chained together I can anchor myself in even the most awkward of river bed situations most of the time.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/837.jpg

Hope these shots help with a picture of how to sucessfully and easily use a hi-lift as a winch - armstrong style.

[Cap]

Ecellent post Windsock! :D

I got all what you mentioned above, the only thing is what do you use to hold the other end of the jack with.. another chain connected to a tree trunk for example?

I also take it that the smaller 48" jack is basically useless for this activity as travel is limitted.

I dont know how I feel about the anchors, ill take your work that they do the job but im worried about the potential projectile weapons they can be.

Thanks again for the effort you have taken to put up the pics ;)

Carlos

[windsock]

Yes, I normaly anchor the hilift by the 'top, and pull the load using the 'lift' motion of the jack. I have quite a few options as to where exactly the jack goes relative to the pulled load but I try to set it up whee it is stable underfoot as the jacking exercise is quite rigourous if well stuck. I can pull the land rover 110 on its diffs along ruts using my weight (76kgs) but if I was lighter I think I would slide around a bit more. Most times it moves ok on its wheels and I hardly feel the load but when really stuck, you need firm footing and a weight to throw around.

As to the anchor rods... it relys on the strength of many if you know what I mean. I get movement from the closest pins to the load but this slack is taken by the next pins and their slck is taken by the next etc. Many pins makes a strong anchor. Sand, gravel all is ok. Where I have issues is when there is a large boulder down below and cannot get good depth. Move the pins around and I ususally get a good anchor.

I should also hasten to add, the pins are not used that close together either. Normally, ground conditions permitting I hammer them in approx 300-400mm apart. I have plenty of chain to use t link them all up.

Cheers, glad to be able to assist.

Phil

[Cap]

Thanks for that, thats what I suspected. As for throwing weight around, I weigh 93kg (6'3") so I guess im at a slight advantage that way ;)

[windsock]

Thanks for that, thats what I suspected. As for throwing weight around, I weigh 93kg (6'3") so I guess im at a slight advantage that way ;)

Yep, I am 6'2" and the extra height is good leverage. My shorter mate has a few problems at times and he is heavier than me. Depends on where the handle ends up once the slack is taken up and the load is felt. 93kg at that height should see you going great on this set up... :D

[George130]

Used the high lift only once for winching. That was in the back yard when we drowned the bob cat. Was quite easy to pull the thing back onto it's wheels. As said the biggest issue is the distance before you run out of travel.

[BMKal]

Thanks for that, thats what I suspected. As for throwing weight around, I weigh 93kg (6'3") so I guess im at a slight advantage that way ;)

Ah you're only a little fella Stooge. :p

I used my hi-lift as a winch a while back to skull drag a rather large electric motor up onto it's base plate to drive a crusher. Was the only thing we had available at the time (poor planning - assumed there would be a crane, or at least a forklift on site). It got the job done, but slowly and a lot of hard work. A coldy definitely went down well at the end of the day. :)

[Cap]

The beauty about it is that even if you have an electric winch, IF that fails on the track then at least you have 'Plan C' - Hi-Lift winching :) (Plan B is the hand winch proper like tirfor types)

[camel_landy]

Personally, I'd look at carrying a Turfor and have the Hi-Lift as a backup.

I've used the Hi-Lift for winching a couple of times and I agree with the others in that it's a PITA. By the time you've managed to take up the slack, you're only going to pull a few inches!!!

So, if you are going to use it, make sure you're using chain & straps so that there's no stretch.

HTH

M

[alien]

We used this method not long ago. The Warn wouldn't work even though it was respooled only 20min. before this happened. Air bubbles from the control box was the first clue.:confused:.

Planing is the key, as said LIFT AND MOVE/LIFT AND PACK when possible.
Don,t make it harder than it needs to be.
It is hard work, I find a No2 son works well:Rolling:.

We also have used a truck/transport "dog" to take the slack out of the chain, you MUST lock the handle down though.

Re-acess before putting weight on the jack each time you re-winch, things do move as the weight comes off to re-config.(SAFTY 1ST.)


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/technical-chatter/16800d1247570052t-possible-td5-oil-chain-stoped-cam-chain-pict1028.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/technical-chatter/16800d1247570052-possible-td5-oil-chain-stoped-cam-chain-pict1028.jpg) http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/members-rides/16624d1246866376t-aliens-d2-pict1023.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/members-rides/16624d1246866376-aliens-d2-pict1023.jpg)

Still recomend a tirfer style winch, versitile and no "It will be right i've got a winch" attitude ;):angel:.

Cheers.

[spudboy]

Nicely bogged! How long did it take you to hand-winch out of that?

[alien]

Only took 2 hours. Left late arvo to take shots for http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/83171-aliens-d2.html .

Broke every rule in the book. Leave early, take food, CHECK DEEPTH:o, let some one know where you are, never travel alone, I'm sure theres more;).

16861

Bottomed out on tow bar brackets, no weight on back axle.
Had to dig tow hitch out after pulling back 2 foot, invert and lift from it. Packed under wheels and winch.

If it's worth doing,do it right:whistling::oops2:.
Cheers

[Cap]

We used this method not long ago. The Warn wouldn't work even though it was respooled only 20min. before this happened. Air bubbles from the control box was the first clue.:confused:.

This is exactly my reasoning behind a hand winch (tirfor or hi-lift). Like I said, my electric winch is buggered, ill never trust one again.

The other thing too, if your winch was working at the time, would you have winched yourself further into the much to get out? Maybe not a good idea!

Thanks for the pics, brought back memories of my brothers nose dive and mine...

[spudboy]

All of the above is why I am starting to build a hydraulic winch system, powered by my PTO.

I've got the PTO pump, am ordering the winch today (Mile Marker) and have found out where to get all the ancilliary gear to control it.

I am going to keep it simple. No solenoids/electirc hand controller. Just a fwd/backwards control valve.

I've got a Tirfor, which is fab, but pretty backbreaking on a long pull.

[cookiesa]

(First let me start with a disclaimer/full disclosure statement)... it has been a while since I have posted and my new Job is at ARB...

that said I have tried winching with a hilift previously and personally found it barely worked, as already mentioned taking up of slack was a big problem meaning minimal travel. I would agree and say you definately need an all chain/cable set up. (Although another option would be plasma or similar but you may have just aswell bought a handwinch!)

My preference is definately the handwinch and a couple of snatch blocks!

A very nifty accessory I have since come across is a wheel adaptor for a hi lift which allows you to lift the wheel instaed of the boby.. great for packing under the wheels!

[LandyAndy]

I tried using my hi-lift as a winch when I bogged my D2 properly.
Once the slack was out of the chain I couldnt lever it any further.I ant clever but I can lift heavy things!!!!
There was no way I could crank it another click!!!
Andrew

[alien]

Just read an article in Land Rover Owner International.
July 1988 issue 8, picked up while on hollies.

It showed casting(jack and push side ways), useing the shovel as a jacking plate and..
Attach a Kerr(read; rope type snatch strap) to anchor point, and a chain to vehicle.
Remove as much slack as possible and winch untill the whole system is under max. load. ie. until vehicle starts to move.
Start motor and drive out...!

We are talking mud tracks and not rocks ect. BUT I don't think I like the idea.
Just throwing it in the mix.

Cheers

PS. We have the longer Highlift which gives us another 150mm of jacking travel.

[windsock]

I don't quite understand some of the posts about a hilift only taking up the slack.

There really is only one way to be successful at using a hilift as a winch. Non-stretch chain, cable or straps just the same as any other recovery pulling device. If the ropes chains, or straps are slack before pulling then even a tirfor will take time to pull it in tight. For the hilift, by using two chains attached to the hilift to pull (chain 1), hold (chain 2), reset hilift, pull (chain 1), hold (chain 2), reset hilift etc there is absolutely no reason why a hilift cannot do the same work as any other hand winch. (See the photos in my post pg 1 if not sure of two-chain setting).

Add in the versatility of being able to push, lift and clamp and you have the 'Leatherman" of recovery devices... sure, using a hilift is awkward but hell, it ain't tiddly-winks out there when you are stuck in goop...
:wasntme:

In saying that about using stretchy ropes, I have actually used the method outlined by Alien D2/Landrover mag. Load the snatch strap by two pulls of the hilift and drive out using the loaded stretch. I use this method in the rocks or muddy tracks when a controlled direction of movement or exit is required. If I am pulling the truck and am not in it, it (the truck) tends to follow gravity. By loading up a snatch strap and then driving off the load, I can control direction and distance. Handy when there is a drop-off or when climbing big rocks in the river bed (not rock-crawling just getting over big rocks). I have two straps I use for this, a specific snatch strap, and an ARB winch extension that has a small amount of 'give'.

[F4Phantom]

Very interesting ideas. I have another idea which I only discovered existed over the last few days. That is the Lever hoist or lever block.

Basically its like a block and tackle which huge mech advantage but uses a lever instead of a rotating chain. As said a chain is a PITA to use for vehicle recovery but a lever is not. The only issue is you want the chain to be fairly clean entering the device so my idea would be to use the lever hoist from a tree and a longer chain/rope to the vehicle. You still encounter the issue of resetting the block when you have moved your 1.5M of chain it comes with. The positives I see is the easy to use lever action, the very low hand force to lift 1.5 - 3 - 9 tonnes, the very small weight and size of the system and the low purchase price, $220 to $400 retail.

[BMKal]

Very interesting ideas. I have another idea which I only discovered existed over the last few days. That is the Lever hoist or lever block.

Basically its like a block and tackle which huge mech advantage but uses a lever instead of a rotating chain. As said a chain is a PITA to use for vehicle recovery but a lever is not. The only issue is you want the chain to be fairly clean entering the device so my idea would be to use the lever hoist from a tree and a longer chain/rope to the vehicle. You still encounter the issue of resetting the block when you have moved your 1.5M of chain it comes with. The positives I see is the easy to use lever action, the very low hand force to lift 1.5 - 3 - 9 tonnes, the very small weight and size of the system and the low purchase price, $220 to $400 retail.

Yep. I've got one of these out in the shed, and have previously used it exactly as you have described (lever block hanging off a tree) to recover a vehicle. Mine has about 10m of chain though, so I don't have to "re-set" nearly as often (was originally sourced for lifting screens out of processing tanks in a gold mine).

They are a very handy bit of gear (especially if you didn't have to pay for it). I've also used it for lifting out / installing engines into vehicles on many occasions - much better than pulling on a chain above the engine bay and worrying about your chain getting hooked on engine components / scratching the bodywork.

[F4Phantom]

Yep. I've got one of these out in the shed, and have previously used it exactly as you have described (lever block hanging off a tree) to recover a vehicle. Mine has about 10m of chain though, so I don't have to "re-set" nearly as often (was originally sourced for lifting screens out of processing tanks in a gold mine).

They are a very handy bit of gear (especially if you didn't have to pay for it). I've also used it for lifting out / installing engines into vehicles on many occasions - much better than pulling on a chain above the engine bay and worrying about your chain getting hooked on engine components / scratching the bodywork.

I almost got the 1.5T model but winded up with the 3T model. I dont know the exact weight of a RRC but overdoing it is safer and also easier on the kit. List price $700, my price 3 hunge if anyone wants one.

[adonuff]

I don't quite understand some of the posts about a hilift only taking up the slack.

There really is only one way to be successful at using a hilift as a winch. Non-stretch chain, cable or straps just the same as any other recovery pulling device. If the ropes chains, or straps are slack before pulling then even a tirfor will take time to pull it in tight. For the hilift, by using two chains attached to the hilift to pull (chain 1), hold (chain 2), reset hilift, pull (chain 1), hold (chain 2), reset hilift etc there is absolutely no reason why a hilift cannot do the same work as any other hand winch. (See the photos in my post pg 1 if not sure of two-chain setting).

Add in the versatility of being able to push, lift and clamp and you have the 'Leatherman" of recovery devices... sure, using a hilift is awkward but hell, it ain't tiddly-winks out there when you are stuck in goop...
:wasntme:

In saying that about using stretchy ropes, I have actually used the method outlined by Alien D2/Landrover mag. Load the snatch strap by two pulls of the hilift and drive out using the loaded stretch. I use this method in the rocks or muddy tracks when a controlled direction of movement or exit is required. If I am pulling the truck and am not in it, it (the truck) tends to follow gravity. By loading up a snatch strap and then driving off the load, I can control direction and distance. Handy when there is a drop-off or when climbing big rocks in the river bed (not rock-crawling just getting over big rocks). I have two straps I use for this, a specific snatch strap, and an ARB winch extension that has a small amount of 'give'.
Hi
I can see how you could get 2 pulls using a a long and short chain how would we get 2 pulls from the highlift when using a snatch strap???

This might be a safe way of recovering a stuck vehicle if you were one up, leave the handbrake on tension up the strap get in and move forward your thoughts??

[windsock]

Hi
I can see how you could get 2 pulls using a a long and short chain how would we get 2 pulls from the highlift when using a snatch strap???

This might be a safe way of recovering a stuck vehicle if you were one up, leave the handbrake on tension up the strap get in and move forward your thoughts??

Gidday,

Yes, it works but takes a bit of figuring for each given situation. Firstly, this system assumes you have enough distance between anchor point and vehicle to use the whole length of snatch and a bit of chain (length to suit) as well. The chain is between snatch strap and hi-lift. I have a couple of chains that I can adjust or set the working lengths and so when using a snatch strap I simply estimate how much stretch or force I want and make sure I have at least that amount of chain between the two. No two situations have been the same and so no one solution applies to all but if you have a variety of recovery gear, a bit of nerve and time, things usually happen for the better. Things can go bad though so the usual disclaimer etc...

I have been out 'practising' a few times where while not stuck have still gone out and attached it all to see what things are capable of and all the how-to's etc. Makes actual recovery work a slightly more experienced thing rather than learning on the job. Fun too to see other marques driving up and start scoffing at me only to see me pack up 'mid-recovery' jump in and drive away when things get 'crowded'. Don't like crowds. ;)

Since installing the old Thomas winch I have not needed to use any other method for self-recovery (the reliability of this old thing is great). Mid mounted with the rope still only exiting the rear, I have not needed the hi-lift for anything other than lifting. Soon now I will route the rope through to the front and have all the extra versatility this will bring.

[cookiesa]

A snatch strap should NEVER been used like this. The last thing you want is the vehicle unexpectedly moving which could very well happen doing it this way. Use the right gear, an extension strap or another length of chain

[alien]

A snatch strap should NEVER been used like this. The last thing you want is the vehicle unexpectedly moving which could very well happen doing it this way. Use the right gear, an extension strap or another length of chain

Never say never, I agree with you that it's not IDEAL to use a snatch strap with a high lift.
I can see where it MAY be used as a last resort at certain times.
It's harder using a highlift as a winch than a "turfer", ask my son;)
DON'T use a snatch strap if vehicle is "bottomed out", just dangerous if if resting on the diff ect..
MAYBE if a wheel is on a rock ledge ect. that you can't "pull" over.
It is only to help gain momentum, NOT to "drag" the car.
Your not trying to move the vehicle with the strap just assist by given a little extra "pull".
Remember the hand brake should be on when using this method so your not actually winching it.

Like all things, SAFETY 1st.
This method is down the list of options.

[windsock]

Sigh :unsure:


A snatch strap should NEVER been used like this. The last thing you want is the vehicle unexpectedly moving which could very well happen doing it this way. Use the right gear, an extension strap or another length of chain

If you read back a few pages you'd see the context of how I use this method. I am out there on my own 95% of the time and this way I can load up the strap and hop in and control my truck rather than let it flop around at the whim of gravity. Gravity can be a real bugger when you are about to either flop on your side or fall over the side of a drop... self-loading a snatch like this is all about having a far more controlled exit where one is available.

It is but one method amongst many I can and have used to extricate myself from certain situations... note also I have two straps I can use, one with loads of stretch and one with a small amount of stretch available.


In saying that about using stretchy ropes, I have actually used the method outlined by Alien D2/Landrover mag. Load the snatch strap by two pulls of the hilift and drive out using the loaded stretch. I use this method in the rocks or muddy tracks when a controlled direction of movement or exit is required. If I am pulling the truck and am not in it, it (the truck) tends to follow gravity. By loading up a snatch strap and then driving off the load, I can control direction and distance. Handy when there is a drop-off or when climbing big rocks in the river bed (not rock-crawling just getting over big rocks). I have two straps I use for this, a specific snatch strap, and an ARB winch extension that has a small amount of 'give'.

[streaky]

How much stretch (if any) is in the ARB Purple winch extension strap? I have one in the truck but have not yet had the oppertunity to use it.

I also have the Orange coloured ARB snatch strap that gets used alot...but never for anything else apart from snatch recoveries.

Thx.

[KarlB]

Snatch straps have a stretch of ~20% while winch extension straps have a stretch of ~5%. These figures would vary between manufactures, materials, etc. Dyneema synthetic rope extensions have less than half the stretch of a strap (~2%).

See here for an ARB comment: http://www.arb.com.au/getting-started/ask-arb/Snatchstraprecovery.php

Cheers
KarlB