lardy
22nd July 2009, 10:01 PM
having noted that you guys have had some amazing dramas with your new pumas, i thought i would make a thread quoting a piece in this months lro international magazine.
They state that earlier versions of the puma (where they claim most of the issues were) should have been corrected during dealer servicing.
They also say in a few months time the first 2.4 tdci will be out of warranty, and so when buying one second hand you need to check the issues following have been rectified.
ENGINE
The 2.4 is the best electronically controlled engine there has been in a Defender (not hard only had the td5 prior)
Engine knock: this should all be sorted by now. a few early engines developed a heavy knocking sound when started, which was attributed to a lubricating problem.
The tdci engine has oil cooling jets (also known as piston control jets) inside the engine block.
When the engine is running, these jets fire pressurised engine oil at the underside of the pistons and cylinder bores.
The oil flow from the jets is controlled by springs which on some engines didn't allow oil through until the oil had warmed up -which was a bit late, hence the knocking sound due to accelerated engine wear.
Land Rover didn't mess with this issue.
Affected engines were replaced and all subsequent units fitted with improved jet springs.
Damage to the engine oil pan (sump)
On some 07/08 models the front propshaft uj at the diff end could contact the the engine oil pan during extreme axle articulation when off roading.
Inertia of the vehicle being jolted and the natural flex of the mounting bushes allowing the transmission to move (that's normal) may also be a contributory factor.
this contact is likely to be heard as a knock, the contact mark will be visible on the side of the pan near the prop uj .
Dealers will have checked this during routine servicing and replaced the oil pan with a later type ...the later type has an indentation opposite the prop joint.
Engine warning lamp
Many issues can cause the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) to come on, including fuel problems -which we'll look at later.
Starter motor does not engine
This is a rare (and that is optimistic lol) electrical issue and may be due to the vehicle's immobiliser system ...this cannot be confirmed at present ( yay for land rover!)
Starter motor
Repetitive starter motor failure has been attributed to a problem with the ignition barrel allowing the starter to overrun after the ignition key is released (had that on a disco 1 but it was old!) The fault was iliminated from VIN: 775971 and any earlier vehicles will have it's ignition checked if a starter problem is experienced.
Fuel System
Some vehicles have suffered water and dirt ingress to the fuel system via the fuel tank vent pipe.
Although the vent points down, it's location in the rear right wheel arch means that wheelspray and splash can enter the open end subsequently causing problems at the fuel filter and engine.
The symptoms often occur just after driving off, and may show as starting problems, misfires, low power or rough running.
Fuel filter problems will activate the MIL and can cut power by putting the engine into limp home mode.
If certain fault codes are logged in the ECU it may be necessary to replace the fuel metering valve and or the fuel pressure relief valve.
That requires the pump to be re-coded to the ECU using IDS.
The filter should usually be drained every 1200 miles and renewed every 24000. A filter change requires the use of a special pump to draw fuel back into the engine, though you can avoid this by brimming the new filter with fresh fuel prior to fitting.
In one case, 20mm of water was found in the fuel filter after 10000 miles, so the 12000 miles stipulated period for draining should always be adjusted for extreme conditions, as is always the case with any servicing intervals. Some garages recommend changing (or at least draining) the filter at 6000 miles. Much depends on the vehicle and what it is being used for.
If the symptoms are occurring without evidence of water in the system, dealers may investigate further, checking the electrical wiring/connectors in the fuel rail.
FUEL METERING VALVE
The fuel metering value in the high pressure fuel pump and the fuel pressure relief valve (PRV) in the end of the engine fuel rail have caused problems - and the individual valves are not repairable. The PRV protects the system from overpressure and once it has operated, it needs replacement. Before, problems with the fuel pressure relief valve required the completer fuel rail to be replaced, and the fault on the fuel metering valve needed renewal of the complete high pressure fuel pump. Land Rover has since made the valves available to buy individually. Symptoms of metering and relief valve problems include low engine power, misfires and reluctance to start, but the vehicle has to be connected to the LR IDS system to confirm failure of these items.
BRAKES - CALIPER/PAD NOISE
A rattle or a click may be heard from the front brakes when travelling over uneven surfaces, or as the brakes are applied. If it occurs as the brakes are applied (usually a single knock), it is likely only to be heard again the next time the pedal is pressed. It's caused by a brake pad moving upward slightly as it grips the disc when the brake is applied. This free movement is designed into the brake to ensure pad to disc clearance during off road driving, thus avoiding brake bind. There is nothing wrong with either the pad or the caliper under these conditions.
Be aware thought, that the noise could also be due to looseness in the caliper or suspension attachments, so check that all associated bolts are tight.
If the noise occurs while you are driving with the brake pedal released, the brake disc run-out and the wheel bearing settings may need to be checked.
If your garage confirms that a problem exists with the brake, anti-rattle clips can be fitted quickly to reduce - or even eliminate - the noise.
BRAKE VACUUM PUMP
Oil staining on the underside of the front left of the bonnet suggests that the oil seal on the brake vacuum pump has failed. The suggested cause is dirt damage to the lip of the oil seal. A new pump will be needed, taking less than an hour to fit.
The new pumps have an extra lip on the dirt seal that helps prevent dirt getting through. A similar problem has been experienced on Fords with the same basic engine, but not to the extent of the Defender.
BODYWORK
*Bonnet Latch
Bonnet latch cable adjustment and safety catch alignment issues are not new to the Defender, so it is surprising that instances have still cropped up in the new model. Ensure that the safety catch on the underside of the bonnet is aligned correctly with its latch plate on the shut panel, and that the main bonnet fastener holds the bonnet firmly closed over rough ground. If the bonnet springs open, with the safety latch doing its job and holding it, all that is usually needed is a simple cable adjustment to ensure the remaining catch is set to close fully when the bonnet is slammed.
TRANSMISSION DRIVELINE, Gear Selection and Noisy Clutch
Clutch disc damper springs on early models tended to weaken and loosen, causing them to rattle and making gear changes difficult. LR has addressed this problem by fitting improved clutch covers and clutch discs. Damper springs in the new clutch discs have normal free movement of about half a millimetre.
There have been problems with the transmission sticking in gear, which was previously cured by replacing the transmission. The fault concerned the selector shaft detents (springs) which are now available as a servicable part.
Propshaft.
Check that grease nipples are fitted to the propshafts and that they are tight. If nipples are not fitted - have a word to your dealer.
INTERIOR - Audio Speakers
Here, at last is a Defender in which you can actually talk and listen to the sound system at the same time. You may also hear vibration and rattles, seemingly coming from the speakers - but this may actually be caused by trim issues. Try pressing on the surrounding trim pieces to check if the noise disappears.
reproduced with the aid of the missus...who can type heaps quicker than me
They state that earlier versions of the puma (where they claim most of the issues were) should have been corrected during dealer servicing.
They also say in a few months time the first 2.4 tdci will be out of warranty, and so when buying one second hand you need to check the issues following have been rectified.
ENGINE
The 2.4 is the best electronically controlled engine there has been in a Defender (not hard only had the td5 prior)
Engine knock: this should all be sorted by now. a few early engines developed a heavy knocking sound when started, which was attributed to a lubricating problem.
The tdci engine has oil cooling jets (also known as piston control jets) inside the engine block.
When the engine is running, these jets fire pressurised engine oil at the underside of the pistons and cylinder bores.
The oil flow from the jets is controlled by springs which on some engines didn't allow oil through until the oil had warmed up -which was a bit late, hence the knocking sound due to accelerated engine wear.
Land Rover didn't mess with this issue.
Affected engines were replaced and all subsequent units fitted with improved jet springs.
Damage to the engine oil pan (sump)
On some 07/08 models the front propshaft uj at the diff end could contact the the engine oil pan during extreme axle articulation when off roading.
Inertia of the vehicle being jolted and the natural flex of the mounting bushes allowing the transmission to move (that's normal) may also be a contributory factor.
this contact is likely to be heard as a knock, the contact mark will be visible on the side of the pan near the prop uj .
Dealers will have checked this during routine servicing and replaced the oil pan with a later type ...the later type has an indentation opposite the prop joint.
Engine warning lamp
Many issues can cause the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) to come on, including fuel problems -which we'll look at later.
Starter motor does not engine
This is a rare (and that is optimistic lol) electrical issue and may be due to the vehicle's immobiliser system ...this cannot be confirmed at present ( yay for land rover!)
Starter motor
Repetitive starter motor failure has been attributed to a problem with the ignition barrel allowing the starter to overrun after the ignition key is released (had that on a disco 1 but it was old!) The fault was iliminated from VIN: 775971 and any earlier vehicles will have it's ignition checked if a starter problem is experienced.
Fuel System
Some vehicles have suffered water and dirt ingress to the fuel system via the fuel tank vent pipe.
Although the vent points down, it's location in the rear right wheel arch means that wheelspray and splash can enter the open end subsequently causing problems at the fuel filter and engine.
The symptoms often occur just after driving off, and may show as starting problems, misfires, low power or rough running.
Fuel filter problems will activate the MIL and can cut power by putting the engine into limp home mode.
If certain fault codes are logged in the ECU it may be necessary to replace the fuel metering valve and or the fuel pressure relief valve.
That requires the pump to be re-coded to the ECU using IDS.
The filter should usually be drained every 1200 miles and renewed every 24000. A filter change requires the use of a special pump to draw fuel back into the engine, though you can avoid this by brimming the new filter with fresh fuel prior to fitting.
In one case, 20mm of water was found in the fuel filter after 10000 miles, so the 12000 miles stipulated period for draining should always be adjusted for extreme conditions, as is always the case with any servicing intervals. Some garages recommend changing (or at least draining) the filter at 6000 miles. Much depends on the vehicle and what it is being used for.
If the symptoms are occurring without evidence of water in the system, dealers may investigate further, checking the electrical wiring/connectors in the fuel rail.
FUEL METERING VALVE
The fuel metering value in the high pressure fuel pump and the fuel pressure relief valve (PRV) in the end of the engine fuel rail have caused problems - and the individual valves are not repairable. The PRV protects the system from overpressure and once it has operated, it needs replacement. Before, problems with the fuel pressure relief valve required the completer fuel rail to be replaced, and the fault on the fuel metering valve needed renewal of the complete high pressure fuel pump. Land Rover has since made the valves available to buy individually. Symptoms of metering and relief valve problems include low engine power, misfires and reluctance to start, but the vehicle has to be connected to the LR IDS system to confirm failure of these items.
BRAKES - CALIPER/PAD NOISE
A rattle or a click may be heard from the front brakes when travelling over uneven surfaces, or as the brakes are applied. If it occurs as the brakes are applied (usually a single knock), it is likely only to be heard again the next time the pedal is pressed. It's caused by a brake pad moving upward slightly as it grips the disc when the brake is applied. This free movement is designed into the brake to ensure pad to disc clearance during off road driving, thus avoiding brake bind. There is nothing wrong with either the pad or the caliper under these conditions.
Be aware thought, that the noise could also be due to looseness in the caliper or suspension attachments, so check that all associated bolts are tight.
If the noise occurs while you are driving with the brake pedal released, the brake disc run-out and the wheel bearing settings may need to be checked.
If your garage confirms that a problem exists with the brake, anti-rattle clips can be fitted quickly to reduce - or even eliminate - the noise.
BRAKE VACUUM PUMP
Oil staining on the underside of the front left of the bonnet suggests that the oil seal on the brake vacuum pump has failed. The suggested cause is dirt damage to the lip of the oil seal. A new pump will be needed, taking less than an hour to fit.
The new pumps have an extra lip on the dirt seal that helps prevent dirt getting through. A similar problem has been experienced on Fords with the same basic engine, but not to the extent of the Defender.
BODYWORK
*Bonnet Latch
Bonnet latch cable adjustment and safety catch alignment issues are not new to the Defender, so it is surprising that instances have still cropped up in the new model. Ensure that the safety catch on the underside of the bonnet is aligned correctly with its latch plate on the shut panel, and that the main bonnet fastener holds the bonnet firmly closed over rough ground. If the bonnet springs open, with the safety latch doing its job and holding it, all that is usually needed is a simple cable adjustment to ensure the remaining catch is set to close fully when the bonnet is slammed.
TRANSMISSION DRIVELINE, Gear Selection and Noisy Clutch
Clutch disc damper springs on early models tended to weaken and loosen, causing them to rattle and making gear changes difficult. LR has addressed this problem by fitting improved clutch covers and clutch discs. Damper springs in the new clutch discs have normal free movement of about half a millimetre.
There have been problems with the transmission sticking in gear, which was previously cured by replacing the transmission. The fault concerned the selector shaft detents (springs) which are now available as a servicable part.
Propshaft.
Check that grease nipples are fitted to the propshafts and that they are tight. If nipples are not fitted - have a word to your dealer.
INTERIOR - Audio Speakers
Here, at last is a Defender in which you can actually talk and listen to the sound system at the same time. You may also hear vibration and rattles, seemingly coming from the speakers - but this may actually be caused by trim issues. Try pressing on the surrounding trim pieces to check if the noise disappears.
reproduced with the aid of the missus...who can type heaps quicker than me