Try not to laugh too hard - am doing mechanics course ...

[Panda]

Just got the results of 2 assignments & am after people's consensus regarding questions I got wrong. Needless to say ... I thought they were right. :eek:

Q. "A motor car engine using a 4 stroke cycle means:

A. one cycle consists of four up and down increments of the piston.

(That's what I put ...)

Correct answer is apparently:

"one cycle consists of two up and down movements of the piston."

I thought it was 4 ...

1 intake stroke when the piston slides down causing vacuum to suck air in.
2 compression stroke - when piston slides up to pressurise air/fuel mixture ready for combusion.
3 power stroke - when spark plug ignites & forces piston down.
4 exhaust stroke - when piston goes up, forcing burned gases out of cylinder.

Q. "A car must carry a vehicle identification plate before it can be driven."

I answered "False."

Correct answer is apparently "True."

Just because a vehicle doesn't have a VIP surely you can still drive it ... I understand that if there isn't one it can indicate it has been removed because of illegal use (for whatever reason), however, aren't there some cases when the VIP can be removed for innocent reasons? Anyway, it still doesn't mean the car couldn't be driven, does it???



Opinions & thoughts please?

[Slunnie]

For the first one, I agree with the marker. You answer doesn't say what you were thinking.

For the second one, I think that you are correct. If it said the vehicle was to be driven on the road then I think the marker would be correct.

[B92 8NW]

The complete cycle is 720 degrees or two rotations of a crankshaft, each stroke can only be a maximum of 180 degrees, hence two up and two down movements.

[Panda]

But you weren't supposed to say that you were thinking, it was multiple choice, can you explain more fully for me please, I don't get it ...


For the first one, I agree with the marker. You answer doesn't say what you were thinking.

For the second one, I think that you are correct. If it said the vehicle was to be driven on the road then I think the marker would be correct.


The complete cycle is 720 degrees or two rotations of a crankshaft, each stroke can only be a maximum of 180 degrees, hence two up and two down movements.

Huh? Could you please give more info.

[Sprint]

you dont need a VIN plate to legally own/register/drive a vehicle

quite a few cars have been stolen and recovered with VIN plates either stolen or mutilated, and have had a surrogate VIN issued to them, no plate, just stamped on the block and body

[Blknight.aus]

a four stroke engine completes a cycle with 2 revolutions of the engine.

the first rotation comprises of the intake and compression strokes (down then up) the second rotation comprises of the power and exhuast strokes (down then up again)

what you have confused is the definitions of cycle, rotations and strokes.

the cycle is typically defined as being from TDC ready for intake to TDC ready for intake.

In a verbose multiple choice assessment 1 answer will be stupidly wrong so can be discounted, 1 will have the correct term(s) but will either be incorrectly sequenced or numbered, 1 answer will have the correct numbers and sequence but the wrong term(s) and the last will usually be the correct answer unless its a 5 choice answer in which case the last answer will either be all are correct or none are correct.



the true false one is a dicey one, I got it wrong as well but prooved that I was correct by asking them to show me the VIN Plate on a registered series II landy that was on base.

However.

the test was written with only current ADR's in mind and their answer, on that basis, is the correct one. You can't legally register a car without a VIN plate and a vehicle that cant be registered cant be driven (so long as you obey the law) which is what the question is inferring but not what is written (assuming youve quoted the question and not paraphrased).

If you got a pass dont get twisted around the axles about it, If its the difference between a pass/fail then its worth asking the questions about.

[Sleepy]

I always remember it as Suck, squeeze, bang, blow.:angel::D


Car Bibles : The Fuel and Engine Bible (http://www.carbibles.com/fuel_engine_bible.html)

[Panda]

Thanks Dave, got it now. They were the only questions I got wrong out of 20, so I guess that's not too bad. Just annoyed me I thought I got them right, & couldn't fathom why I got them wrong. (Christ, it's been a long day!) :) Not looking forward to the next assignment though, all about fasteners, wrenches, precision measuring tools, tool identification & use ... that's going to be somewhat hard to learn from a book ... :eek:


a four stroke engine completes a cycle with 2 revolutions of the engine.

the first rotation comprises of the intake and compression strokes (down then up) the second rotation comprises of the power and exhuast strokes (down then up again)

what you have confused is the definitions of cycle, rotations and strokes.

the cycle is typically defined as being from TDC ready for intake to TDC ready for intake.

In a verbose multiple choice assessment 1 answer will be stupidly wrong so can be discounted, 1 will have the correct term(s) but will either be incorrectly sequenced or numbered, 1 answer will have the correct numbers and sequence but the wrong term(s) and the last will usually be the correct answer unless its a 5 choice answer in which case the last answer will either be all are correct or none are correct.



the true false one is a dicey one, I got it wrong as well but prooved that I was correct by asking them to show me the VIN Plate on a registered series II landy that was on base.

However.

the test was written with only current ADR's in mind and their answer, on that basis, is the correct one. You can't legally register a car without a VIN plate and a vehicle that cant be registered cant be driven (so long as you obey the law) which is what the question is inferring but not what is written (assuming youve quoted the question and not paraphrased).

If you got a pass dont get twisted around the axles about it, If its the difference between a pass/fail then its worth asking the questions about.

[Relay]

They have these questions just to mess with your head. I find it easier to remember strokes by the amount of times at TDC and BDC per cycle. For a 4 stroke it has 2 TDC moments and 2 BDC moments.

I'd argue though. Considering there is 4 strokes: "one cycle consists of four up and down increments of the piston." is still correct.

One cycle consists of four up and four down increments of the piston - would be incorrect. By linking up and down with and means there's room for interpretation. This is all based on my understanding of the word increment...(which I believe is a change in state). English was never my strong suit.

If you passed, run with it...in the end, you know it. Whether the teacher is an idiot or not...? You know that too ;-)!

[digger]

I always remember it as Suck, squeeze, bang, blow.:angel::D


:eek:
Im assuming that after the suck sqeeze bang and blow a little nap and then to work on the car I assume?
:angel:

[Disco_owner]

Hi Panda;

Good on you for undertaking an automotive repaire course , that really shows how brave you are.:cool:

[Slunnie]

But you we're supposed to say that you were thinking, it was multiple choice, can you explain more fully for me please, I don't get it ...
The first answer just insinuated that there were 4 up strokes and 4 down strokes. You've described the process in each of the 4 strokes which is correct, (so there is 2 up strokes and 2 down strokes with each combustion) but the answer selected sounds like you're saying there are a total of 8 strokes in the cycle.

[rovercare]

a four stroke engine completes a cycle with 2 revolutions of the engine.

the first rotation comprises of the intake and compression strokes (down then up) the second rotation comprises of the power and exhuast strokes (down then up again)

what you have confused is the definitions of cycle, rotations and strokes.

the cycle is typically defined as being from TDC ready for intake to TDC ready for intake.

In a verbose multiple choice assessment 1 answer will be stupidly wrong so can be discounted, 1 will have the correct term(s) but will either be incorrectly sequenced or numbered, 1 answer will have the correct numbers and sequence but the wrong term(s) and the last will usually be the correct answer unless its a 5 choice answer in which case the last answer will either be all are correct or none are correct.



the true false one is a dicey one, I got it wrong as well but prooved that I was correct by asking them to show me the VIN Plate on a registered series II landy that was on base.

However.

the test was written with only current ADR's in mind and their answer, on that basis, is the correct one. You can't legally register a car without a VIN plate and a vehicle that cant be registered cant be driven (so long as you obey the law) which is what the question is inferring but not what is written (assuming youve quoted the question and not paraphrased).

If you got a pass dont get twisted around the axles about it, If its the difference between a pass/fail then its worth asking the questions about.


Pretty much that, its kinda getting into semantics really, as its more a stress on terms when your theory was sound, just the wording was incorrect:D

[hoadie72]

you dont need a VIN plate to legally own/register/drive a vehicle

quite a few cars have been stolen and recovered with VIN plates either stolen or mutilated, and have had a surrogate VIN issued to them, no plate, just stamped on the block and body

One of my cars doesn't have a compliance plate (I assume that's what is meant by VIN plate?). I don't know why, but it was that way when I bought it. Most likely the importer forgot to fit the plate as there isn't anything indicating one has been removed. I checked with the RTA before buying and it all checked out.

[Slunnie]

One of my cars doesn't have a compliance plate (I assume that's what is meant by VIN plate?). I don't know why, but it was that way when I bought it. Most likely the importer forgot to fit the plate as there isn't anything indicating one has been removed. I checked with the RTA before buying and it all checked out.
I'm pretty sure VIN and Complience are on different plates??????

[hoadie72]

I'm pretty sure VIN and Complience are on different plates??????

Actually, if they look like this, I don't have one

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Newbs-IIA]

...
the test was written with only current ADR's in mind and their answer, on that basis, is the correct one. You can't legally register a car without a VIN plate and a vehicle that cant be registered cant be driven (so long as you obey the law) which is what the question is inferring but not what is written (assuming youve quoted the question and not paraphrased...

I hope they do include material about cars that don't have VIN plates, last thing I need is some apprenttis that knows nothing about older cars. My Series IIA hasn't got a VIN plate and only recently passed a RWC and is now regoed...

I also agree about the wording of the question, as far as i am concerned you are correct. Removing the VIN plate from a vehicle does not render it 'undriveable' - you can still get in it and drive it around, nothing phyically stopping this. All they had to do was add 'legally driveable' to the question and this would clear up alot of problems. But then there are the older cars which do not have VIN plates to start with...

It's a vicious cycle :p

[Basil135]

Q. "A car must carry a vehicle identification plate before it can be driven."

I answered "False."

Correct answer is apparently "True."

Just because a vehicle doesn't have a VIP surely you can still drive it ... I understand that if there isn't one it can indicate it has been removed because of illegal use (for whatever reason), however, aren't there some cases when the VIP can be removed for innocent reasons? Anyway, it still doesn't mean the car couldn't be driven, does it???


From a legal perspective, the lack of a compliance plate, VIP, or number plate will not prevent a vehicle from been driven.

Same with missing headlights, seatbelts or even seats for that matter. None of these things will prevent a vehicle from been driven. Even on a public road.

So, technically, your answer is correct.

If the question was "A car must carry a vehicle identification plate before it can be legally driven on a public road." or similar, or if the question related around the registration requiremtents, then that is a totally different kettle of fish.

Considering you only missed out on 2 out of 20 questions, I reackon you did really well.

Anyone who has anything to do with legal stuff, be it law, contracts, standards, OHS&W etc, will tell you that 1 word can totally change the meaning of things significantly. Think about the difference of "must" and "should".

[Hastykiwi]

I see where panda got it wrong in the 4 stroke question, however i would suggest that the question does not necessarily test your understanding of the 4 stroke cycle, more it tests your understanding of the semantics of the question.

A shame because its not an english exam.

Nick

[Slunnie]

I see where panda got it wrong in the 4 stroke question, however i would suggest that the question does not necessarily test your understanding of the 4 stroke cycle, more it tests your understanding of the semantics of the question.

A shame because its not an english exam.

Nick
There are a lot of problems with exam questions. That question wouldn't even test understanding if it were easier to understand, it tests an ability to rote learn (memorise).

[RobHay]

:eek:
Im assuming that after the suck sqeeze bang and blow a little nap and then to work on the car I assume?
:angel:
\

CAN I WATCH !!!!!!!!:eek::o;):twisted:

[Panda]

Brave, or plain stupid! :Rolling:

I find it quite difficult, to be honest, but by the same token, I find it very interesting. Am hoping some knowledge I pick up may help me in the future, firstly being a bit more capable when it comes to the Goanna, and secondly, I would love to work in a garage, or dealership, fancy being a parts interpreter ... so the more knowledge I can get, the better.

Thanks for your support :)


Hi Panda;

Good on you for undertaking an automotive repaire course , that really shows how brave you are.:cool:

[Panda]

What annoys me is the fact I spent hours learning the relevant chapters ... not parrot fashion, but actually learning so I could understand each paragraph ... as poor Dave will testify too! :D

I don't see the point in learning parrot fashion just to get high marks or pass exams, defeats the purpose in my book - if I can't understand something, I'd rather take the time to work out what the hell it's all about. :)


There are a lot of problems with exam questions. That question wouldn't even test understanding if it were easier to understand, it tests an ability to rote learn (memorise).

[Panda]

I knew it wouldn't be long ... :Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:




\

CAN I WATCH !!!!!!!!:eek::o;):twisted:

[Slunnie]

What annoys me is the fact I spent hours learning the relevant chapters ... not parrot fashion, but actually learning so I could understand each paragraph ... as poor Dave will testify too! :D

I don't see the point in learning parrot fashion just to get high marks or pass exams, defeats the purpose in my book - if I can't understand something, I'd rather take the time to work out what the hell it's all about. :)
Bit of a tangent now, but you're doing the right thing. Rote learning will only get you off the ground with what you learn, but understanding will allow you to understand, develop, modify, transfer etc what you have learnt. A lot of good tests now will differentiate but starting with questions that test rote learing through to questions which allow the demonstration of whats called high order thinking which includes things like evaluation and critical analysis. High order thinking is now where the marks are.

[Blknight.aus]

agreed, you will be tested by rote for the basic concepts, the harder ones come later with the diagnostic questions.....

I've got some doozies.

[frantic]

As was stated in a previous post there are plenty of cars driving around without vin/ comp plates. The 2 most common are very old cars from the60's back and any Hi-Po collectable that has been stolen and had the plates ripped out by thieves trying to rebirth a write off, in NSW from memory you can get a PAPER certifictate to cover the lost vin/ comp plate so your collectable retains it's value as an original. So you where right in your second Q.

[Panda]

I wait in anticipation ... :D


agreed, you will be tested by rote for the basic concepts, the harder ones come later with the diagnostic questions.....

I've got some doozies.

[Panda]

Have written to the oh learned one lecturer ... be interesting what his response will be ... will keep you posted :)

[Panda]

Now, I'm quite sure you will all find this highly amusing ... I have to actually do work experience in a mechanic's workshop, as part of the course ... that should be interesting, to say the very least ... :Rolling::Rolling:

[V8Ian]

Now, I'm quite sure you will all find this highly amusing ... I have to actually do work experience in a mechanic's workshop, as part of the course ... that should be interesting, to say the very least ... :Rolling::Rolling:
Can I watch?;)
BTW I think you answered the second question correctly, I fail to see the question's relivence to diagnosing and repairing cars.:confused:

[B92 8NW]

Actually, if they look like this, I don't have one

http://www.dwaycar.com/images/VIN%20Plate%20L.jpg

My Mercedes (rather Mer-****-cedes or Mersadist) doesn't have one either, but any car pre 1989 in Victoria doesn't require a VIN for registration)

[Panda]

Thanks again for all your input ... have to fill out a dozen forms (why doesn't that surprise me) ... so no doubt will take awhile for the tutor to respond.

On a happy note, I got a "Distinction" as well as a "High Distinction". So am fairly pleased (thought still not happy I got those 2 questions wrong ...)

[Panda]

Thanks Sleepy, will read it when I've got a bit of time tonight.


I always remember it as Suck, squeeze, bang, blow.:angel::D


Car Bibles : The Fuel and Engine Bible (http://www.carbibles.com/fuel_engine_bible.html)

[Panda]

They have these questions just to mess with your head. I find it easier to remember strokes by the amount of times at TDC and BDC per cycle. For a 4 stroke it has 2 TDC moments and 2 BDC moments.

I'd argue though. Considering there is 4 strokes: "one cycle consists of four up and down increments of the piston." is still correct.

One cycle consists of four up and four down increments of the piston - would be incorrect. By linking up and down with and means there's room for interpretation. This is all based on my understanding of the word increment...(which I believe is a change in state). English was never my strong suit.

If you passed, run with it...in the end, you know it. Whether the teacher is an idiot or not...? You know that too ;-)! ... yea, I know if I'm an idiot or not too :Rolling::Rolling:

[V8Ian]

... yea, I know if I'm an idiot or not too :Rolling::Rolling:

Enlighten us then :p:p:p

[Jedimastermat]

From a legal perspective, the lack of a compliance plate, VIP, or number plate will not prevent a vehicle from been driven.

Same with missing headlights, seatbelts or even seats for that matter. None of these things will prevent a vehicle from been driven. Even on a public road.

So, technically, your answer is correct.

If the question was "A car must carry a vehicle identification plate before it can be legally driven on a public road." or similar, or if the question related around the registration requiremtents, then that is a totally different kettle of fish.

Considering you only missed out on 2 out of 20 questions, I reackon you did really well.

Anyone who has anything to do with legal stuff, be it law, contracts, standards, OHS&W etc, will tell you that 1 word can totally change the meaning of things significantly. Think about the difference of "must" and "should".

As someone who lives in the world of OHS and Quality Management I can only second the above. Generally the one word is the difference is "shall" and "should". Completely different legal connotations. Especially handy to know when one is handed a breach notice for a should clause by an inspector/auditor/compliance officer whos not quite up to speed on the difference

cheers
Mat

[Panda]

An idiot through and through ...



Enlighten us then :p:p:p

[V8Ian]

An idiot through and through ...
I don't believe it, an occasional wombble, that's all.;):D

[Panda]

If you saw me now you wouldn't agree with your statement.


I don't believe it, an occasional wombble, that's all.;):D

[V8Ian]

What the hell is a wombble?A little furry thing that lives in a uterus?:D
Wally's first cousin.:D:D

[Scouse]

Now, I'm quite sure you will all find this highly amusing ... I have to actually do work experience in a mechanic's workshop, as part of the course ... that should be interesting, to say the very least ... Do you have somewhere lined up Panda (hint, hint)?

[Panda]

No I don't Scotty, am open to suggestions though :D


Do you have somewhere lined up Panda (hint, hint)?

[Scouse]

No I don't Scotty, am open to suggestions though :DDo I have to spell it out? :)

I can ask the boss - we do have work experiece people through here every now & then.

[Panda]

That would be sensational Scotty.I'd like to get as much as I can get, reckon that's the only way you can get the experience. Knowing stuff in books is one thing, but actually using the knowledge is something quite entirely different. So, yea, I'd be rapt! Have you got my phone number to pass on to him?


Do I have to spell it out? :)

I can ask the boss - we do have work experiece people through here every now & then.

[Scouse]

Have you got my phone number to pass on to him?I have your home number. PM your mobile and/or work if that's better to reach you on.

[hook]

Mum had an old 85 laser, that was QLD rego, with out both PIN plates......
Was sold as a stolen recovery, still had motor and chassis number but no VIN plate

[Panda]

Thanks Scotty, PM sent :)


I have your home number. PM your mobile and/or work if that's better to reach you on.

[Panda]

Yea, in the course, they say that's the most common reason a vehicle is missing the VIN plate, then go on to say there are other legal reasons they can be missing, but don't elaborate! So I've requested more information. So when I speak to the tutor, I will mention along the lines of what you've said (if that's okay), & see what he says.


Mum had an old 85 laser, that was QLD rego, with out both PIN plates......
Was sold as a stolen recovery, still had motor and chassis number but no VIN plate

[Panda]

:Rolling:My puny little arms struggle enough trying to undo bolts, etc. I would definitely need a nap:D


:eek:
Im assuming that after the suck sqeeze bang and blow a little nap and then to work on the car I assume?
:angel:

[Blknight.aus]

thats what rattle guns, air ratchets and Cheater bars are for.

[Panda]

Yes, but there always seem to be nasty little ones in the most awkward places where a ratchet won't fit onto ... God I hate that! :D


thats what rattle guns, air ratchets and Cheater bars are for.

[bblaze]

Yes, but there always seem to be nasty little ones in the most awkward places where a ratchet won't fit onto ... God I hate that! :D
Thats where you use a ring/open on the offending nut and use a ring spanner onto the open end of the spanner to extend the lenth, if that makes sense
cheers
blaze

[Blknight.aus]

nahh, just gas axe the parts that are in the way out of the way then mig them back when you're done.

[Scouse]

That would be sensational Scotty.I'd like to get as much as I can get, reckon that's the only way you can get the experience. Knowing stuff in books is one thing, but actually using the knowledge is something quite entirely different. So, yea, I'd be rapt! Have you got my phone number to pass on to him?Sorted. Just need to get your TAFE (I assume) paperwork side done whenever you're ready & you're in :p.

[V8Ian]

Sorted. Just need to get your TAFE (I assume) paperwork side done whenever you're ready & you're in :p.
:pYou're a brave man Scouse;)

[Scouse]

:pYou're a brave man Scouse;)Hey, it'll be OK - it's not my Land Rover Panda will be working on :).


Do you like green Defenders Panda? We have a problem one that comes in every now & then that could use some fresh ideas :cool:.

[Bushwanderer]

Nice one Scotty. :BigThumb:

Re the Deafener: If it's DB's, Panda will run a mile. :eek:

[dullbird]

Hey, it'll be OK - it's not my Land Rover Panda will be working on :).


Do you like green Defenders Panda? We have a problem one that comes in every now & then that could use some fresh ideas :cool:.

She would probably have more Idea:p.....can't wait to get the car fixed especially as we are now only 1 day into August and I don't appear to have my software update;).

Get your thinking cap on Panda we will be round soon:D

[tony]

scott your a very brave man.....the workshop will never be the same again......................

dont worry dB panda will sort the puma out she likes cats...........


I'll soon be able to hang my spanners up........again.........

[Panda]

Would you believe I am currently reading how to remove broken studs, screws & damaged nuts ... fascinating reading, nearly as enthralling as law :eek::eek: OMG, Earth to Panda, Earth to Panda ... the spaceship is nearly ready to take you away ... :Rolling:


Thats where you use a ring/open on the offending nut and use a ring spanner onto the open end of the spanner to extend the lenth, if that makes sense
cheers
blaze

[Panda]

OMG!!! I'm so excited! I'll have to study even harder now ... do I get to wear Land Rover overalls??? I'll be in heaven :D:D:D:D:banana::banana::banana:

Oh-oh, will this mean I'll have to hide the Series III round the back when I drive to work? :Rolling:


Sorted. Just need to get your TAFE (I assume) paperwork side done whenever you're ready & you're in :p.

[Panda]

:Rolling::Rolling:Don't worry Scotty, you'll be safe. As for Dullbirds ... I think that will definitely need the experts. Suppose I could always stand there umming & arring & look like I know what I'm doing :Rolling: 10.5
Anderson to Watson, no run, oh dear, oh dear. Right out of the blue Watson has tried to smash Anderson into the street. Anderson gives him a word, and quite right too. You can't be doing that on your debut as a Test opener for goodness' sake. No manners at all



Hey, it'll be OK - it's not my Land Rover Panda will be working on :).


Do you like green Defenders Panda? We have a problem one that comes in every now & then that could use some fresh ideas :cool:.

[Panda]

Hmmmm ... you'll have to consult with the head mechanic of the household Lou, I'm not quite up to speed sorry! :Rolling::Rolling:


She would probably have more Idea:p.....can't wait to get the car fixed especially as we are now only 1 day into August and I don't appear to have my software update;).

Get your thinking cap on Panda we will be round soon:D

[Panda]

Oh I don't think so, we can get matching overalls, 2 guesses what will be written on them ... :Rolling::Rolling:

[QUOTE=tony;1034216
I'll soon be able to hang my spanners up........again.........[/QUOTE]

[Blknight.aus]

just so long as theres pics..... :)

[V8Ian]

Think that you might have got confused which thread you were replying to.:)Hope that your future employer is not reading this:angel:
Land Rover overalls don't come in your size Panda, you'll have to wear Smart Car ones.:p:o:D

[V8Ian]

Another one of your irrelevant quotes I see.:)
Read post # 64, Mr I've got the Memory of a Goldfish.:p:D

[rovercare]

Read post # 64, Mr I've got the Memory of a Goldfish.:p:D

"Hi, my name is Ian" *swim*, *swim, *swim*......."Hi, my name is Ian" *swim*, *swim................:D

[Blknight.aus]

I think its a red herring.



(hey is there any chance of one of pandas threads staying on topic?)

[V8Ian]

I think its a red herring.



(hey is there any chance of one of pandas threads staying on topic?)
No.

[Panda]

I don't bloody think so ... I'll make some then if that's the case ... I could have pretty pink ones :p


Land Rover overalls don't come in your size Panda, you'll have to wear Smart Car ones.:p:o:D

[Panda]

:Rolling::Rolling:I'm not saying another word ...


Another one of your irrelevant quotes I see.:)


Read post # 64, Mr I've got the Memory of a Goldfish.:p:D


"Hi, my name is Ian" *swim*, *swim, *swim*......."Hi, my name is Ian" *swim*, *swim................:D

[Panda]

Well, I'm trying you know ... OMG nearly got out! Hopefully Clarkie will keep us afloat.


No.

[V8Ian]

Well, I'm trying you know ... OMG nearly got out! Hopefully Clarkie will keep us afloat.
Perfect example...................you can't even keep a post on track!!!!!:p:D

[Panda]

Well, they're sort of related ... the mechanics of cricket is quite an important part of the game :D


Perfect example...................you can't even keep a post on track!!!!!:p:D

[Panda]

Now, now Cooper ... you know how long it took & how many hours of work to prepare the pitch, what with the rain an' all. Did you know for example, they designed an umbrella for the Edgbaston pitch in case of rain - called it the "Brumbella" (cause they're Brummies, which of course you would know anyway) ... but they only used it once, because when it got rained on, it was too heavy to remove! :Rolling::Rolling:Got to love the Pommies! :Rolling::Rolling:


What do the mechanics of cricket do?Repair the broken down players! Be a full time job then:)

[Panda]

Could be NM .... just to p them off :Rolling:How have you been by the way? Haven't heard much from you. Keeping you busy tending to the sick? Are you finding alot more swine flu cases coming in? Or people who have the sniffles and panic they've got swine flu? Must put enormous pressure on an already overburdened system.


You know Panda, I do believe you could introduce cricket into every thread in GC.........your task for the day?? :D:D:D:D

[Panda]

Had to do that today to check the gearbox oil ... what a pain that was. Bloody second ring spanner kept shooting off across the garage :D


Thats where you use a ring/open on the offending nut and use a ring spanner onto the open end of the spanner to extend the lenth, if that makes sense
cheers
blaze

[Panda]

Don't worry ... there'll be pics ... probably not very good ones, but pics nonetheless! :D


just so long as theres pics..... :)

[Panda]

:Rolling::Rolling:Let's just hope they like the cricket & decent music to work with (& have a pool table for after work winddown & Tooheys Old Dark Ale in the fridge) :Rolling::Rolling:... a happy worker, is a productive worker!


Think that you might have got confused which thread you were replying to.:)Hope that your future employer is not reading this:angel:

[V8Ian]

Fine taste in beer you have there,although there are better dark ales around.James Squire does some great ones.:D
Common people and their beer, hmmph.:angel:

[Panda]

What does everyone think the answer to this question would be:

"When drilling a hole in thin sheet metal, the sheet must be firmly held to prevent:

A. the drill from catching in the sheet as it breaks through.
B. the drill from overheating.
C. The sheet from excessive distortion.
D. drilling the wrong size of the hole."

There's nothing in the books about it per se, so after a toss up between "A" and "C", I've marked it as "A".

What's your general opinion? :)

[Panda]

:Rolling:No, no, I don't believe goats or cats are mentioned in the question ... so looks like "A". Thanks Cooper. :D:D

As an aside, put them in the back of the Goanna & took them for a walk down the river this afternoon. They did enjoy themselves, though still don't know if they can swim. They thought the sand was rather strange :eek:


If you cannot have"To prevent it spinning off and decapitating either a cat or a goat" then go "A'.:D

[Panda]

Okay ... could someone please advise the general consensus, when torquing head bolts, should they be oiled, or not? If so, why? Doesn't it affect the torquing?

Yes, I know, a sensible, boring question. But there you have it ... :D

[MickS]

Okay ... could someone please advise the general consensus, when torquing head bolts, should they be oiled, or not? If so, why? Doesn't it affect the torquing?

Yes, I know, a sensible, boring question. But there you have it ... :D

Depends if they answer back or ignore you...:D If they ignore you, try talking to the manifold....:D whilst listeneing to Burning Down the House...by Torquing Heads.....

[bblaze]

In most case I like to oil before torqueing, gives a smoother even tension. At times when a loctite is specified you dont oil but the loctite will have lubing properties.
cheers'
blaze

[Blknight.aus]

it depends on the application. The manual will specify if the bolts require the use of a lubricant or not.

Loctite and oil are generally mutually exclusive.

Loctite counts as a thread lubricant. (while its wet)

[Sleepy]

Never thought you'd need advice on talking Panda.........................















OK, back in my box..

[Panda]

:Rolling::Rolling:How the hell do you know me so well? :Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:



Depends if they answer back or ignore you...:D If they ignore you, try talking to the manifold....:D whilst listeneing to Burning Down the House...by Torquing Heads.....

[Blknight.aus]

oh yes...

to answer the question.

lubing the bolts makes a big difference. Generally you get a better more accurate torquing with lubed threads. IF working on torque to yield bolts (which you almost ALWAYS lubricate not only the threads but the underside of the heads as well) failing to lube them can result in unwise mechanics who skip this step issuing swear words not long before other mechanics come over to investigate then laughing.


(Senior mechanics tip. If you snap or break something DONT SWEAR, It may make you feel good immediately but the humiliation that follows when your mates come over to make sure you're ok and leave laughing does nothing for self esteem)

[Panda]

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:Hey, I need your computing expertise. Can you post a rather amusing email for me on the Skull thread? (please)






Never thought you'd need advice on talking Panda.........................















OK, back in my box..

[Panda]

I know you're a man of few words ... but could you possibly elaborate for me? Mr Succinct? :D


it depends on the application. The manual will specify if the bolts require the use of a lubricant or not.

Loctite and oil are generally mutually exclusive.

Loctite counts as a thread lubricant. (while its wet)

[Blknight.aus]

I know you're a man of few words ... but could you possibly elaborate for me? Mr Succinct? :D

Ok how about.

This? (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1071488-post101.html)

[Panda]

:Rolling:Sorry, didn't see it when I posted the other one ... smartarse! :Rolling::Rolling:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/10/1031.jpg (http://www.thescubasite.com/Learn-To-Scuba-Dive/scuba-diving-hand-signals)


Ok how about.

This? (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1071488-post101.html)

[DeanoH]

When you're putting bolts into alloy its a good idea to lubricate, use copper coat or similar so the next person can a/. remove the bolt and b/. not trash the thread.

Re your original question, I reckon this video is fascinating...............

YouTube - In Cylinder Video ( How a 4 stroke engine works )

Deano

[MickS]

Re your original question, I reckon this video is fascinating...............

YouTube - In Cylinder Video ( How a 4 stroke engine works ) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEf8va1S7Sw)

Deano

Good video...at first I thought it was a womb catching fire...:eek:

[Panda]

That was an awesome video Deano - thanks heaps! :):)


When you're putting bolts into alloy its a good idea to lubricate, use copper coat or similar so the next person can a/. remove the bolt and b/. not trash the thread.

Re your original question, I reckon this video is fascinating...............

YouTube - In Cylinder Video ( How a 4 stroke engine works ) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEf8va1S7Sw)

Deano

[Panda]

:Rolling::Rolling:You crack me up Mick ... I won't even ask how the hell you got that analogy ... :eek::eek:


Good video...at first I thought it was a womb catching fire...:eek:

[MickS]

:Rolling::Rolling:You crack me up Mick ... I won't even ask how the hell you got that analogy ... :eek::eek:

It looks like an ultrasound, next thing - backdraft - whoomp...:eek: Won't say where the backdraft came from..:angel:

OK, time for my pill....

[Panda]

Geez, you lot are a worry. I thought I had problems ... :Rolling::Rolling:

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A womb with a flue?

[Blknight.aus]

I know you're a man of few words ... but could you possibly elaborate for me? Mr Succinct? :D


:Rolling::Rolling:You crack me up Mick ... I won't even ask how the hell you got that analogy ... :eek::eek:

easy name another area where a little spark causes a heap of sucking squeezing banging and blowing to occur.

[MickS]

easy name another area where a little spark causes a heap of sucking squeezing banging and blowing to occur.

I aint touching that with a ten foot


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/830.jpg

[Panda]

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:you big girly, you :Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

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I aint touching that with a ten foot


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/830.jpg

[Chops]

Thats an awesome vid,,
I've got a screen saver which is an animated motor being assembled then powers up and fires,,

[Panda]

Have you indeed ... don't suppose you could send it to me could you? (pretty please) :D


Thats an awesome vid,,
I've got a screen saver which is an animated motor being assembled then powers up and fires,,

[Panda]

So what the hell is "galling?" And what is meant by "when nearing full torque value, you will hear a "popping" sound. The fastener will seem to stick and stop turning ..."

Sorry to be a pain ... (yea, I know, I'm pretty damn good at it ...) what the hell is "run-down torque", which I gather is caused by self-locking nuts, damaged threads or not cleaning the bolts properly in the first place. How do you tell you've encountered "run-down torque?"

Perhaps I should just go back to bed ... lol

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[Panda]

Oh forgot ... went to my favourite shop yesterday (well, one of a couple, but we won't go into that ... ), picked up some more Gucchi tools, am getting quite a nice collection now.

Got my friend at Bathurst (who restores old Indian motor bikes) to be on the look out for some Whitworth spanners at swap meets & the likes (this was after doing the diff & checking the axles/bearings at the same time ... needed a Whitworth & don't have any).

Bloody hell, they're as rare as hen's teeth ... :D

Soooooooooooooooooo, if anyone comes across any, keep me in mind. Oh, yes, I'm sure you all will ... not ... always worth a try though :Rolling:

[Blknight.aus]

witworth? isnt that ye olde english for Shifter?

[MickS]

A womb with a flue?

:clap2:

[Panda]

Sorry MG, is that question directed at me, or those other 2 clowns? :Rolling: If it is directed to me ... yes, easy, very easy. :Rolling:

Oh, what fun, I do love a game or two. Do I get a prize? :Rolling::Rolling:

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easy name another area where a little spark causes a heap of sucking squeezing banging and blowing to occur.

[V8Ian]

witworth? isnt that ye olde english for Shifter?
Many people use metric shifters, Dave, some use imperial shifters, both can damage the hex. Whitworth shifters, of the correct size, should always be used. Take note Panda.

[Panda]

Well, good morning Mr Cooper :) Thought you may have been working today annoying your lovely customers all day long, seeing as you deserted the sinking ship last night ...

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To whom are you referring may I ask?:angel:

[Panda]

Yes, thank you Ian, I know all that. Hence, am desperately trying to get some ... and let me tell you, it ain't easy!

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Many people use metric shifters, Dave, some use imperial shifters, both can damage the hex. Whitworth shifters, of the correct size, should always be used. Take note Panda.

[Panda]

Yes, yes, yes and yes. A full set ... if you can get a full set. If not, whatever you can lay your hands on. Thanks Mr Cooper. :)


Do you need a full set,should be able to find you some on sunday,pm me requirements.:)

[V8Ian]

Yes, thank you Ian, I know all that. Hence, am desperately trying to get some ... and let me tell you, it ain't easy!

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:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:Do you want left handed or right handed shifters?

[V8Ian]

Ring,open,sockets? or all?:D
Especially shifters!!!;):p:p

[Panda]

Don't get me started ... you have no idea what a total pain it is being left handed. Did I tell you about the knife I bought? Oh, it was a beauty, except it's designed for right handed people, & I can't open it, without near on cutting my Goddam hand off. And working on the SIII is just as bad ... trying to bloody torque the flange ... what a pain in the arse that was ...

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:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:Do you want left handed or right handed shifters?

[Panda]

All, I tell you, all ... if you see a goddam box full of them, I want it! (please, of course) PM me when if/when you get them & will reimburse you, thanks Cooper. :D


Ring,open,sockets? or all?:D

[Panda]

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:Think I may have to get some, the rate I'm going ... :Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:



It looks like an ultrasound, next thing - backdraft - whoomp...:eek: Won't say where the backdraft came from..:angel:

OK, time for my pill....

[V8Ian]

Dinks, shifters come in left and right handed.:o

[V8Ian]

Don't get me started ... you have no idea what a total pain it is being left handed. Did I tell you about the knife I bought? Oh, it was a beauty, except it's designed for right handed people, & I can't open it, without near on cutting my Goddam hand off. And working on the SIII is just as bad ... trying to bloody torque the flange ... what a pain in the arse that was ...

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I'd give my right arm to be ambidexterous.:eek::confused::p

[Panda]

Am sure we can work something out ... that's if you manage to get them. Just had to pass up going to Glenford's tool shop ... exceeded my tool buying limit yesterday, & didn't want any more temptation. Not my strong point! um, seeing a tool I want & not buying it, I meant. :Rolling:


No problem with that,postage might be for you though.Might have to arrange AULRO courier service .;)

[V8Ian]

Here is where i show my ignorance, AF and Whitworth:angel:s,are they compatible?
No mate, AF relates to head size. Whitworth to shank/thread.

[Panda]

Not really. Bit like me. :Rolling::Rolling:

"Joseph Whitworth (1803 - 1887) was a British mechanical engineer and tool maker who was also responsible for establishing precision measurement and manufacturing standards. Yes, it's the same Whitworth who sent you scouring the countryside for Whitworth wrenches for your MG".


Here is where i show my ignorance, AF and Whitworth:angel:s,are they compatible?

[jackz]

Here's a thread that may spark your interest, Panda. As well as induce some lively banter next time Tony has goanna in your shed.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/87780-nissans-might-have-strong-axles-but-pity-about-wheel-studs.html
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://freesmileyface.net)

[DeanoH]

Glad to see I'm not the only "molly duker" around here. Comes in handy sometimes, but bloody tape measures are always upside down!


:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:Do you want left handed or right handed shifters?

Perhaps one with a reversable ratchet head might be ideal for the budding apprentice ?

Deano

[Blknight.aus]

being ambidexterous and having used both the left and the right handed version of the ratcheting shifter I find it hugely annoying when I goto use the left handed shifter in my right hand and find myself undoing the fitting I thought I was doing up.

yes, I know that they are clearly labeled but its very hard to read your spanners when youve managed to get them covered in gunk while working in the dark space under the vehicle while your holding up a transmission part in one hand, chocking the vehicle's wheels with you're feet and cant shift your head to see what your doing as your using your head to keep the exhaust from falling down and interfering with the tcase while you put it all together.

It also doesnt help that when I heat shrink wrapped my shifter handles I covered up the handles markings, I always thought it was a fairly simple matter to identify the difference between say a left handed metric ratcheting shifter and the right handed witworth one but noooo. The number of times I get some TA whining that not only has he snapped the head off of a stud nut or has rounded the corners off of a nut or bolt and I've had to show him the basics of the difference between the types of shifter..

Im giving serious consideration to stopping the appies from playing with my tool box.

Perhaps If I recovered some of them in a different colour, say yellow

[DeanoH]

[QUOTE=Panda;1072912]:Rolling::Rolling:
"Joseph Whitworth (1803 - 1887) was a British mechanical engineer and tool maker who was also responsible for establishing precision measurement and manufacturing standards....................
[QUOTE]

Standards!! British (total lack of) Standard Whitworth, Pipe thread, Fine, Cycle Thread and whatever other awful conglomeration of crazy thread pitches they could think of. And the spanner sizes only relevant to a "standard" nut and bolt.

This is one thing the yanks got right, no mucking about UNF or UNC, take it or leave it and AF spanner sizes that actually relate to the "accross the flats" measurement of the nuts and bolts.

Fortunately the metric standard uses the same logic. Which is suprising really, you'd expect the French to come up with something totally, well, French.

Taking a page out of Pandas book and going off topic, (us leftys have to stick together), pulled a spanner from the bowels of the tool box which reads 25 A/F 1/4 one end and 31 A/F 5/16 the other. Of course it's made in England by Britool, any ideas ?

Deano

[V8Ian]

being ambidexterous and having used both the left and the right handed version of the ratcheting shifter I find it hugely annoying when I goto use the left handed shifter in my right hand and find myself undoing the fitting I thought I was doing up.

yes, I know that they are clearly labeled but its very hard to read your spanners when youve managed to get them covered in gunk while working in the dark space under the vehicle while your holding up a transmission part in one hand, chocking the vehicle's wheels with you're feet and cant shift your head to see what your doing as your using your head to keep the exhaust from falling down and interfering with the tcase while you put it all together.

It also doesnt help that when I heat shrink wrapped my shifter handles I covered up the handles markings, I always thought it was a fairly simple matter to identify the difference between say a left handed metric ratcheting shifter and the right handed witworth one but noooo. The number of times I get some TA whining that not only has he snapped the head off of a stud nut or has rounded the corners off of a nut or bolt and I've had to show him the basics of the difference between the types of shifter..

Im giving serious consideration to stopping the appies from playing with my tool box.

Perhaps If I recovered some of them in a different colour, say yellow
Panda's ya man Dave, as long as you're not in a hurry.:D:p;)

[Panda]

You WHAT? Did you say you PAY for someone else to work on your vehicle? Oh, deary, deary, me, that's not good Cooper, nearly as bad, no, wait a minute, worse than tennis ... :p:p

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OK,Have dozens of spare spanners in a box,lots are whitworths,lots are af including full set sockets.Will sort out W's and you can have them Panda,only duplicates of others i have.Waste of time me having them really,always pay Rick to work on my cars and if i need anything here,there is a mechanic in the village and can borrow anything,anytime.http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/Cool/cool-045.GIF (http://freesmileyface.net)

[Panda]

Thanks Steve ... however, I repeat ...

WHEN THE HELL ARE WE GOING BUSH?

I've even bought a bottle of Sambucca for the occasion, so get your bloody arse into gear ...

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Here's a thread that may spark your interest, Panda. As well as induce some lively banter next time Tony has goanna in your shed.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/87780-nissans-might-have-strong-axles-but-pity-about-wheel-studs.html
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://freesmileyface.net)

[Panda]

:Rolling::Rolling:Know exactly where you're coming from MG. Needless to say, noone is allowed to use my tools ... I only buy the best, (correction, best I can afford, would dearly love Snap On) & expect them to be kept that way ... gunk on your tools? tsk, tsk, tsk. Thought you'd know better. Shame on you, may have to demote you a peg or two now ... :Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Roll ing::Rolling:

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being ambidexterous and having used both the left and the right handed version of the ratcheting shifter I find it hugely annoying when I goto use the left handed shifter in my right hand and find myself undoing the fitting I thought I was doing up.

yes, I know that they are clearly labeled but its very hard to read your spanners when youve managed to get them covered in gunk while working in the dark space under the vehicle while your holding up a transmission part in one hand, chocking the vehicle's wheels with you're feet and cant shift your head to see what your doing as your using your head to keep the exhaust from falling down and interfering with the tcase while you put it all together.

It also doesnt help that when I heat shrink wrapped my shifter handles I covered up the handles markings, I always thought it was a fairly simple matter to identify the difference between say a left handed metric ratcheting shifter and the right handed witworth one but noooo. The number of times I get some TA whining that not only has he snapped the head off of a stud nut or has rounded the corners off of a nut or bolt and I've had to show him the basics of the difference between the types of shifter..

Im giving serious consideration to stopping the appies from playing with my tool box.

Perhaps If I recovered some of them in a different colour, say yellow

[Panda]

Just went for a test run with the new steering damper & track rod & ... sweet as! :D No wobbles, though I must say, noticed the steering's a bit heavier. Not that that's a problem, after being used to driving with a locker in the front!

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Oh, will put a couple of photos up shortly ... it's such a beautiful YELLOW

[Panda]

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[MickS]

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Someone stole the headlights!! :o Oh, that's right - it's a series III :p

[Sleepy]

Oh forgot ... went to my favourite shop yesterday (well, one of a couple, but we won't go into that ... ), picked up some more Gucchi tools, am getting quite a nice collection now.

Got my friend at Bathurst (who restores old Indian motor bikes) to be on the look out for some Whitworth spanners at swap meets & the likes (this was after doing the diff & checking the axles/bearings at the same time ... needed a Whitworth & don't have any).

Bloody hell, they're as rare as hen's teeth ... :D

Soooooooooooooooooo, if anyone comes across any, keep me in mind. Oh, yes, I'm sure you all will ... not ... always worth a try though :Rolling:

I got a nice (basic) collection of old Sidchrome open ended spanners on ebay - $20 for 8 spanners - type "whithworth" into ebay - there are usually a few "collections" for sale. Best $20 I ever spent....








.......OK second best $20 I ever spent.

[Panda]

:Rolling::Rolling:Oi you, where's the photos of Basil from the All British Day?


Someone stole the headlights!! :o Oh, that's right - it's a series III :p

[Panda]

Well done Paul ... very well done. Am always on the look out for decent tools. I buy some every week, so am gradually getting there ... am desperate to get a real decent tool chest ... oh well, that'll have to wait. :D


I got a nice (basic) collection of old Sidchrome open ended spanners on ebay - $20 for 8 spanners - type "whithworth" into ebay - there are usually a few "collections" for sale. Best $20 I ever spent....








.......OK second best $20 I ever spent.

[V8Ian]

http://www.dogmall.co.uk.nyud.net/smile/sign/sign0021.gif (http://www.dogmall.co.uk/dog-beds-baskets/large-dog-beds/)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/811.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2258805870102277828qRFkFR)

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Gawd, it could do with a tub.:o I hope you don't run anyone over....if the impact didn't kill them, the tetenus would!:(:angel::p

[Panda]

That wouldn't be a bit of sarcasm now would it Cooper? It least my steering damper matches :p:p

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Smashing grille Panda,don"t know why that was not a factory optionhttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://freesmileyface.net/Free-Winks-Smileys.html)

[Sleepy]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/811.jpg

Wouldn't that skull restrict the air flow?

Sorry, hijack, better start another thread.....

[Panda]

Oh dear, maybe I should start a thread on it? :Rolling:

Am actually putting some more on over the weekend :p:p :D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)


http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/45065/2258805870102277828S425x425Q85.jpg

Wouldn't that skull restrict the air flow?

Sorry, hijack, better start another thread.....

[Panda]

Tub my arse! It was designed in Britain, you know! Just because you're all a bunch of girly pansies who have to wash your vehicles every other day ... :p:p You need to get with the programme! :Rolling::Rolling:

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Gawd, it could do with a tub.:o I hope you don't run anyone over....if the impact didn't kill them, the tetenus would!:(:angel::p

[V8Ian]

That wouldn't be a bit of sarcasm now would it Cooper? It least my steering damper matches :p:p

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)
Matches what?:confused:

[V8Ian]

Tub my arse! It was designed in Britain, you know! Just because you're all a bunch of girly pansies who have to wash your vehicles every other day ... :p:p You need to get with the programme! :Rolling::Rolling:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)
Mine hasn't been tubbed for 2-3 months, it's in for a shock tomorrow.:eek:

[V8Ian]

Tub my arse! It was designed in Britain, you know! Just because you're all a bunch of girly pansies who have to wash your vehicles every other day ... :p:p You need to get with the programme! :Rolling::Rolling:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)

No thank you

[Panda]

The damn grille! Are you colour blind, or what? Was even thinking of putting the yellow candles on for the upcoming Castle Hill thingy ... :p:Rolling::Rolling:

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Matches what?:confused:

[V8Ian]

The damn grille! Are you colour blind, or what? Was even thinking of putting the yellow candles on for the upcoming Castle Hill thingy ... :p:Rolling::Rolling:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.mysmiley.net)
No, I'm not colour blind, not even shade blind...........unlike some on here:p:p:p

[Panda]

Thanks Cooper :):) ... so now I know where you work ... good one! :Rolling::Rolling:Aren't you in for an entertaining week next week :Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Roll ing::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

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Whitworths marine,where i front,always have stainless nuts and bolts,Whitworths thread in stock,in case you are looking for any.:D

[Panda]

Damn! Got me there! Wrong choice of words, obviously ...

No thank you

[Sleepy]

Here ya go Panda

whitworth, Home, Cars, Bikes, Boats, Collectables items at low prices on eBay.com.au (http://shop.ebay.com.au/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3984.m38.l1313&_nkw=whitworth&_sacat=See-All-Categories)

[Panda]

Oh, don't worry, I will ... sucked in Cooper! :Rolling::Rolling:

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Do your worst Panda,always enjoy a laugh:D

[V8Ian]

Is there something wrong with you? :eek: She's female....younger.....blonde.....trim......what's your problem Annie?......oh may have just answered that one
Arms aren't long enough.:eek:

The last female bottom I tubbed was my daughter's, 24-25 years ago.:D

[Panda]

Thanks Paul, very appreciated :)


Here ya go Panda

whitworth, Home, Cars, Bikes, Boats, Collectables items at low prices on eBay.com.au (http://shop.ebay.com.au/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3984.m38.l1313&_nkw=whitworth&_sacat=See-All-Categories)

[V8Ian]

Is there something wrong with you? :eek: She's female....younger.....blonde.....trim......what's your problem Annie?......oh may have just answered that one
All of the above;)

[V8Ian]

Your window of opportunity is narrow,only there saturdays and mondays.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://freesmileyface.net/Free-Music-Smileys.html)
Other times leave a message.:angel::D:D:D:o

[Panda]

Thanks Cooper ... even more useful information ... :Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:


Your window of opportunity is narrow,only there saturdays and mondays.http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/Music/music-092.gif (http://freesmileyface.net/Free-Music-Smileys.html)

[Panda]

And yet, I still wait ... to whom was the question for Mr Succinct? :D


easy name another area where a little spark causes a heap of sucking squeezing banging and blowing to occur.

[Panda]

And ... what about this question? Does anyone know? (Yes, that's right, it's directed at you MG!) :D


So what the hell is "galling?" And what is meant by "when nearing full torque value, you will hear a "popping" sound. The fastener will seem to stick and stop turning ..."

Sorry to be a pain ... (yea, I know, I'm pretty damn good at it ...) what the hell is "run-down torque", which I gather is caused by self-locking nuts, damaged threads or not cleaning the bolts properly in the first place. How do you tell you've encountered "run-down torque?"

Perhaps I should just go back to bed ... lol

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[V8Ian]

And yet, I still wait ... to whom was the question for Mr Succinct? :D
So's Dave, he asked a question.:p

[Panda]

Oh heavens no, Cooper, I have something MUCH better planned :Rolling::Rolling:

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And be careful yourself,or I will put you on speaker phonehttp://freesmileyface.net/smiley/Respect/woohoo-022.gif (http://freesmileyface.net/Free-Respect-Smileys.html)we do that to some calls

[Panda]

Yea, but he knows I know the answer to that ... to easy. Thought he may have been asking someone else, as he didn't direct it to me specifically. ;)


So's Dave, he asked a question.:p

[Panda]

10? pfft ...


You will win heaps of brownie points with my co-workers if you can embarrass or confuse me.They have tried for 10 years.http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/Laughing/lol-045.gif (http://freesmileyface.net/Free-Laughing-Smileys.html)

[V8Ian]

You will win heaps of brownie points with my co-workers if you can embarrass or confuse me.They have tried for 10 years.http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/Laughing/lol-045.gif (http://freesmileyface.net/Free-Laughing-Smileys.html)
Panda dear girl, let me know if I can help you in any way.:D:D:D

[V8Ian]

You will win heaps of brownie points with my co-workers if you can embarrass or confuse me.They have tried for 10 years.http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/Laughing/lol-045.gif (http://freesmileyface.net/Free-Laughing-Smileys.html)
If you can have Christmas in July, can we have April (1st) in September?:p;);)

[Panda]

Why, thank you kind sir ... but I've got it covered. :D


Oh,goody!Now it's a conspiracy.I am going to enjoy this.I love being razzed.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://freesmileyface.net/Free-Tongue-Smileys.html)

[V8Ian]

Panda dear girl, let me know if I can help you in any way.:D:D:D
We should be able to get the suport of the forum and hopefully the wider community.:o:o:D

[V8Ian]

Oh,goody!Now it's a conspiracy.I am going to enjoy this.I love being razzed.http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/Tongue/mockery-011.gif (http://freesmileyface.net/Free-Tongue-Smileys.html)
Well you're in for a fat time then mate.:p:p:twisted:

[Panda]

Thanks, but not necessary. :) He'll be besides himself ... with embarrassment! :Rolling::Rolling:


We should be able to get the suport of the forum and hopefully the wider community.:o:o:D

[Panda]

I can assure you, he'll get what he deserves! :Rolling::Rolling:


Well you're in for a fat time then mate.:p:p:twisted:

[V8Ian]

I can assure you, he'll get what he deserves! :Rolling::Rolling:
Can you get the store manager on side? Maybe send the security footage to Funniest Video :D:D:D

[V8Ian]

Okay,let's make it serious panda.You seem sure of yourself,If you can embarrass me then I will send you $100.If you fail,you have to come here and wash my cars.Know how you love that.Deal?http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/Cool/cool-045.GIF (http://freesmileyface.net/Free-Cool-Smileys.html)
Either way, it'll make brilliant footage. :twisted::twisted::twisted:

[Panda]

Me, washing your car? You have got to be joking. My dear chap, you have absolutely buckleys! There is absolutely nothing more unattractive than watching a man wash a car, and I sure as hell don't wash them ... well, there are a few other things as unattractive, but since we're on this subject ... so ... dream away, it ain't going to happen!

:Rolling::Rolling:


Do not worry,if you get me,i will get the tape and get it on here,conversely pics of Panda washing my cars will also be forthcoming.It is a no lose situation for the forum.PS,I will pay for the airfare, worth it just for the pics.:D

[V8Ian]

Not prepared to take the bet then?If you were sure of your success you would snap it up.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://freesmileyface.net)Even without a reverse bet I still want to see what you come up with.Hope it is good,will make sure that the cameras are on.
He's got a valid point Panda.:(

[Panda]

Don't be ridiculous Cooper ... I wouldn't except money. The main challenge is sufficient reward. And, no, I don't wash cars, especially not nancy boy cars like yours ...


Okay,let's make it serious panda.You seem sure of yourself,If you can embarrass me then I will send you $100.If you fail,you have to come here and wash my cars.Know how you love that.Deal?http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/Cool/cool-045.GIF (http://freesmileyface.net/Free-Cool-Smileys.html)

[Panda]

Cameras? What cameras? :eek:


Not prepared to take the bet then?If you were sure of your success you would snap it up.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://freesmileyface.net)Even without a reverse bet I still want to see what you come up with.Hope it is good,will make sure that the cameras are on.

[Panda]

No he hasn't Ian ... not at all ... :Rolling::Rolling:


He's got a valid point Panda.:(

[Panda]

I don't need the lure of winning a bet to know I'll succeed. :p


Not prepared to take the bet then?If you were sure of your success you would snap it up.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://freesmileyface.net)Even without a reverse bet I still want to see what you come up with.Hope it is good,will make sure that the cameras are on.

[V8Ian]

I don't need the lure of winning a bet or know I'll succeed. :p
You could donate the winnings to RFDSQ:):):)

[Panda]

Oh, is that all ...


Security cameras in the shop:D

[Panda]

Scalded cat? What a ghastly thought. How about a cheetah, or a leopard?


Like your ethics,and it may look like a nancy boy car,but it goes like a scalded cat:D

[V8Ian]

To save offending any animal lovers,how about"like a rocket".Don't think anybody cares what happens to them.:D
I've had a few of them over the years.:(

[Panda]

Good point! :D Though nothing quite like watching a cat in action ... except a horse of course, especially when you're on it's back, going at a fair rate of knots ...


To save offending any animal lovers,how about"like a rocket".Don't think anybody cares what happens to them.:D

[Panda]

Oh yea, rockets are fun! Remember a few prototypes my engineering friend made when we were kids, my, oh my, didn't we get into trouble! :eek:




I've had a few of them over the years.:(

[V8Ian]

Oh yea, rockets are fun! Remember a few prototypes my engineering friend made when we were kids, my, oh my, didn't we get into trouble! :eek:
So you've had a rocketing too then?:D

[Panda]

ummmm, yea few. But don't tell anyone :D


So you've had a rocketing too then?:D

[Panda]

Yes, all of the above. :eek:. Not that I would admit that of course.


Ah!I think that he meant receiving them,rather than lighting them.:DCould be wrong though.:)Too late,he got in first

[Blknight.aus]

And ... what about this question? Does anyone know? (Yes, that's right, it's directed at you MG!) :D

damn it why doesnt quoting include the quotes in the text you want to quote?


galling, its sort of like annoying.

as in
his behavior was annoying
his behavior was shocking.

[Stepho_62]

Panda,

A couple of hundred responses have already been added so no doubt I'm not going to add to much technical value.

Firstly let me say congrats for haveing a go. Should be more of it.

Secondly as I'm sure someone has already pointed out, the cycle consists of Suck, push, bang, blow, :eek::wasntme:

The second question I agree with you completely however I suspect that are looking @ a road registered vehicle.

There you go, probably a replication of the previous 250 odd answers, the only difference is I'm proud of a girl having a go :D:arms:

[hodgo]

Ok we have lots of good answers on the 4 stroke engine. What is the purpose of an internal combustion engine.

Hodgo

[DeanoH]

Ok we have lots of good answers on the 4 stroke engine. What is the purpose of an internal combustion engine.
Hodgo

Suck, push, bang, blow, :eek::wasntme: ?

Deano

Deano

[Panda]

:Rolling:Just to annoy the crap out of you MG


damn it why doesnt quoting include the quotes in the text you want to quote?


galling, its sort of like annoying.

as in
his behavior was annoying
his behavior was shocking.

[Ace]

I reckon credit to you for taking the step and doing it, having the technical knowledge to repair your own vehicle is a valuable skill. I did a mechanics course through tafe when i was in highschool. Best thing i ever did, saves me heaps being able to the work to my car instead of having to pay a mechanic. Good work Panda.

[Panda]

Thanks Stepho ... got the cycle well sussed out ... I actually didn't read the question properly in the first place ... needless to say, haven't made that mistake again!

Yes, they were looking at a road worth vehicle. Though still thought the question was very ambiguous & have told them as such (not that they give a rat's arse!).

Haven't got any more assignment questions wrong yet ... so will have to wait until I get one wrong to post the question & answer I put.

Though am still having problems with RUN DOWN TORQUE, to which I haven't received a reply as yet ...

Oh and someone I shan't mention, as am quite sure they're not quite themselves, put some smartarse remark about "galling" to which I'm really none the wiser ... :D






Panda,

A couple of hundred responses have already been added so no doubt I'm not going to add to much technical value.

Firstly let me say congrats for haveing a go. Should be more of it.

Secondly as I'm sure someone has already pointed out, the cycle consists of Suck, push, bang, blow, :eek::wasntme:

The second question I agree with you completely however I Susette that are looking @ a road registered vehicle.

There you go, probably a replication of the previous 250 odd answers, the only difference is I'm proud of a girl having a go :D:arms:

[Panda]

Well, I'd be lying if I said I found it easy ... but I do enjoy it immensely. Nice to hear from you Matt ... how've you been?


I reckon credit to you for taking the step and doing it, having the technical knowledge to repair your own vehicle is a valuable skill. I did a mechanics course through tafe when i was in highschool. Best thing i ever did, saves me heaps being able to the work to my car instead of having to pay a mechanic. Good work Panda.

[Ace]

Well, I'd be lying if I said I found it easy ... but I do enjoy it immensely. Nice to hear from you Matt ... how've you been?

Its get easier, somethings are technical and take a while for the penny to drop but as you delve deeper stuff will just click, besides you have all of us on here to help you out :D

Have been good, started in my new job 3 weeks ago and loving it. Looking forward to recovering from 16 weeks without any pay and then getting back into some more 4wding.

[Panda]

Sounds great Matt, at least you had a much deserved break. Look forward to going out with you again - it's been awhile! :D


Its get easier, somethings are technical and take a while for the penny to drop but as you delve deeper stuff will just click, besides you have all of us on here to help you out :D

Have been good, started in my new job 3 weeks ago and loving it. Looking forward to recovering from 16 weeks without any pay and then getting back into some more 4wding.

[Panda]

Do you mean the purpose of an internal combusion engine, as opposed to an external engine, such as a steam engine? :)


Ok we have lots of good answers on the 4 stroke engine. What is the purpose of an internal combustion engine.

Hodgo

[DeanoH]

Do you mean the purpose of an internal combusion engine, as opposed to an external engine, such as a steam engine? :)

Now an external combustion engine is something else entirely!!! :) Got a feeling I mentioned "Stirling" engines earlier; hmmm..................


I reckon credit to you for taking the step and doing it, having the technical knowledge to repair your own vehicle is a valuable skill.

And even better, you get to practice on other peoples cars.:cool:

Deano

[Panda]

Sorry Deano, I'll have to go back & read it through ... it was the beer I tell you ... :D:D


Now an external combustion engine is something else entirely!!! :) Got a feeling I mentioned "Stirling" engines earlier; hmmm..................



And even better, you get to practice on other peoples cars.:cool:

Deano

[DeanoH]

Sorry Deano, I'll have to go back & read it through ... it was the beer I tell you ... :D:D

WHAT, YOU'VE RUN OUT !!!!!!!!!????????:eek::eek::eek::eek:


Nah, just me being clever. :D There is actually an external combustion engine. This is where heat is applied externally to the 'cylinder'. The concept has been around for several hundred years.
During WW2 external combustion engines were used as lifeboat engines, also Philips made small generators using an external combustion engine back in the 1960's I think. There was talk of them being used in submarines as there is no 'bang' as in....... suck, push, bang, blow, as they are very quiet and the submarine is less likely to get a torpedo up its clacker. I'm just full of useles info today, or as SWMBO would say ......'just full of it'. :(

As far as run down torque is concerned I've got no idea. But in your original post about it you mentioned a pin popping or something that made me think of a torque wrench reaching tension. Am I close ???:confused:

Deano

[hodgo]

To answer my own question
The purpose of an internal combustion engine, is to convert chemical energy into mechanical energy by burning the chemical in a confined space under pressure.
Which intern creates a reciprocal motion (piston going up and down) which intern is converted into rotary motion in the crank shaft via the con rods.
To see how an external engine works google hot air engine
Hodgo

[Panda]

No, certainly haven't run out ... have to concentrate on my mechanicing too much this evening though ... so may have a couple later. :D

Regarding the "run down torque" ... no, I don't think so. But hence my question, as I don't really understand it. From what I can gather, damaged threads, for example, or foreign material (from the bolts not being properly cleaned), can cause a certain amount of resistance, before "drawing" the parts together. This is apparently "run down torque". Apparently, it's not always noticeable (which is of concern to me, not being experienced enough to know the difference). However, if you do come across "run down torque" you have to add it to the recommended torque. Yes, that's right, I'm getting more & more confused. lol. You're supposed to determine "run down torque" during the last couple of turns ... and how the hell you're supposed to know how to add it to the recommended torque is beyond me .... :eek:



WHAT, YOU'VE RUN OUT !!!!!!!!!????????:eek::eek::eek::eek:


Nah, just me being clever. :D There is actually an external combustion engine. This is where heat is applied externally to the 'cylinder'. The concept has been around for several hundred years.
During WW2 external combustion engines were used as lifeboat engines, also Philips made small generators using an external combustion engine back in the 1960's I think. There was talk of them being used in submarines as there is no 'bang' as in....... suck, push, bang, blow, as they are very quiet and the submarine is less likely to get a torpedo up its clacker. I'm just full of useles info today, or as SWMBO would say ......'just full of it'. :(

As far as run down torque is concerned I've got no idea. But in your original post about it you mentioned a pin popping or something that made me think of a torque wrench reaching tension. Am I close ???:confused:

Deano

[DeanoH]

To answer my own question
The purpose of an internal combustion engine, is to convert chemical energy into mechanical energy by burning the chemical in a confined space under pressure.
Which intern creates a reciprocal motion (piston going up and down) which intern is converted into rotary motion in the crank shaft via the con rods...........................


you're not related to dave are you ? :unsure:

Deano

[Panda]

ummmm, unless this is one of your trick questions .... the combusion chamber?


easy name another area where a little spark causes a heap of sucking squeezing banging and blowing to occur.

[DeanoH]

....................................If the threads are damaged or covered with dirt, you can feel some resistance before the fastener actually pulls the parts together. This is called "run-down" torque. If you can "feel" that 5 Nm of run-down torque is needed to make the nut turn on the bolt, then add this 5 Nm to the recommended torque. Sometimes you can hear a clicking sound and feel the nut "stick" before it gets to full torque. Then, as you apply more torque, the nut does NOT move until you reach a higher value of torque. The cure is simple. Just back-off half a turn, and once it has broken free, tighten it again with a steady and smooth action....................
© Karl S. Kruszelnicki


Pinched this off the ABC website.

Talk about a long winded way to explain a simple principle. :wasntme:

What they are saying is that when you have a dirty or damaged nut/bolt that you are tightening, some of the force you are using to tighten it with is being used up to overcome the friction caused by the dirty/damaged nut/bolt. When you are tightening a nut/bolt to a specified torque you need to apply extra torque to compensate for this 'wasted torque' in overcoming friction. In the example given above they've determined that friction to be 5 Nm. I guess you'd determine this by feel when you're experienced but until then try this. If the nut/bolt isn't "pulled up" and you can feel resistance as you tighten it you'll be able to read the amount of torque required to overcome this resistance on your torque wrench. Add this to the required torque and bobs your uncle, the nut/bolt is now done up to the correct tension.

Hope that makes some sense.:):):)

Deano

[Panda]

:Rolling::Rolling:Thanks Steve ... I still haven't looked up the torque settings yet. But you have reminded me ... :D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.thescubasite.com/)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.thescubasite.com/)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.thescubasite.com/)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.thescubasite.com/)


Here's a thread that may spark your interest, Panda. As well as induce some lively banter next time Tony has goanna in your shed.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/87780-nissans-might-have-strong-axles-but-pity-about-wheel-studs.html
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://freesmileyface.net)

[DeanoH]

ummmm, unless this is one of your trick questions .... the combusion chamber?

Aahhhh............................"the innocence of youth".


Deano

[Panda]

:Rolling:Glad to hear I'm not the only one suffering being cacky handed ... in reply to your question ... I have no idea. Had to re-read the chapter on bolts 3 times already ... bloody hell ... and no, I'm not reading it again at the moment! :Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

You'll have to wait for some input from someone who actually knows what they're talking about ... so that kind of counts me out at this stage of the game ... oh, it's going to be a loooooooooooooong course! :Rolling::Rolling:

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[QUOTE=Panda;1072912]:Rolling::Rolling:
"Joseph Whitworth (1803 - 1887) was a British mechanical engineer and tool maker who was also responsible for establishing precision measurement and manufacturing standards....................
[QUOTE]

Standards!! British (total lack of) Standard Whitworth, Pipe thread, Fine, Cycle Thread and whatever other awful conglomeration of crazy thread pitches they could think of. And the spanner sizes only relevant to a "standard" nut and bolt.

This is one thing the yanks got right, no mucking about UNF or UNC, take it or leave it and AF spanner sizes that actually relate to the "accross the flats" measurement of the nuts and bolts.

Fortunately the metric standard uses the same logic. Which is suprising really, you'd expect the French to come up with something totally, well, French.

Taking a page out of Pandas book and going off topic, (us leftys have to stick together), pulled a spanner from the bowels of the tool box which reads 25 A/F 1/4 one end and 31 A/F 5/16 the other. Of course it's made in England by Britool, any ideas ?

Deano

[Panda]

Yep, you got it ... I don't like being rushed :Rolling:

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Panda's ya man Dave, as long as you're not in a hurry.:D:p;)

[Panda]

Now then Cooper, of course I believe you ... :eek::eek: :Rolling:


[QUOTE=Panda;1073174]That wouldn't be a bit of sarcasm now would it Cooper? It least my steering damper matches :p:p

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Not at all,swallows tongue,it is a vast improvement on the boring silver number offered from new.Dances with glee that perhaps she believes me.http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/Penguins/penguin-002.gif (http://freesmileyface.net)

[Panda]

Thanks Deano ... yep, makes sense. However, where the hell did I put my knitting? :Rolling::Rolling:

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....................................If the threads are damaged or covered with dirt, you can feel some resistance before the fastener actually pulls the parts together. This is called "run-down" torque. If you can "feel" that 5 Nm of run-down torque is needed to make the nut turn on the bolt, then add this 5 Nm to the recommended torque. Sometimes you can hear a clicking sound and feel the nut "stick" before it gets to full torque. Then, as you apply more torque, the nut does NOT move until you reach a higher value of torque. The cure is simple. Just back-off half a turn, and once it has broken free, tighten it again with a steady and smooth action....................
© Karl S. Kruszelnicki


Pinched this off the ABC website.

Talk about a long winded way to explain a simple principle. :wasntme:

What they are saying is that when you have a dirty or damaged nut/bolt that you are tightening, some of the force you are using to tighten it with is being used up to overcome the friction caused by the dirty/damaged nut/bolt. When you are tightening a nut/bolt to a specified torque you need to apply extra torque to compensate for this 'wasted torque' in overcoming friction. In the example given above they've determined that friction to be 5 Nm. I guess you'd determine this by feel when you're experienced but until then try this. If the nut/bolt isn't "pulled up" and you can feel resistance as you tighten it you'll be able to read the amount of torque required to overcome this resistance on your torque wrench. Add this to the required torque and bobs your uncle, the nut/bolt is now done up to the correct tension.

Hope that makes some sense.:):):)

Deano

[Panda]

Is the SIII an "interference" engine or a "non-interference" engine? Just wondering ... :)

[DeanoH]

Is the SIII an "interference" engine or a "non-interference" engine? Just wondering ... :)

Which engine ? 4 cyl petrol, 4 cyl diesel, 6 cyl abomination :confused:

You'll find out quick enough if you break the timing chain !! :BigCry:

Deano

[DeanoH]

Is the SIII an "interference" engine or a "non-interference" engine? Just wondering ... :)

Low compression engines like the petrols probably OK, the diesel though............
Only guessing really.

Deano

[Panda]

Well, mine's a 2.6 standard Leyland petrol ... does it make that much difference if it's an interference engine, or not, in the schemes of things? (as far as breaking the timing chain & the ensuing damage to the engine?)

God I need to get a life ... :Rolling:

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Which engine ? 4 cyl petrol, 4 cyl diesel, 6 cyl abomination :confused:

You'll find out quick enough if you break the timing chain !! :BigCry:

Deano

[Panda]

Oh crap ... did I get it wrong?

http://www.mysmiley.net.nyud.net/imgs/smile/sign/sign0082.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net)

Youth? :Rolling::Rolling:


Aahhhh............................"the innocence of youth".


Deano

[DeanoH]

Well, mine's a 2.6 standard Leyland petrol ... does it make that much difference if it's an interference engine, or not, in the schemes of things? (as far as breaking the timing chain & the ensuing damage to the engine?)

God I need to get a life ... :Rolling:

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Don't know much about SIII 6cyl petrol engine, I'm just assuming here that its that horrible overhead inlet side exhaust thing LR used in the late SII's. But it really doesn't matter as far as your question goes, I'm just being nasty to LR's (excuse for) engineers. :)

If you lose a timing chain/belt its always better, and a lot less expensive, not to have the valve gear and pistons colliding. Or if they do only a little bit. Its the degree of interference thats the issue. No interference is best, but with interference, slightly bent valve stems can be straightened but valve(s) through top of piston(s) is terminal. :eek:

Deano :wheelchair:

[Blknight.aus]

galling is essentially the removal of metal when 2 pieces of metal are forced to slide along each other. its usually a microscopic effect and is generaly more noticable when a corse hard material (like say a steel file) is dragged across a softer metal (like say aluminium) if you try this you will notice that the alluminium gets stuck in the file, ITs the same deal with threads on a bolt. This is usually bought about by not cleaning out the threads of the nut/bolt/stud or when there is defects in the production of either. At the microscopic level its not a big deal when it becomes noticable it is. First off because where theres thread damage you have a potential fail point (stripping the threads entirely or jambing and snapping the fixture) but worse it has the potential to skew your torque setting.

nice segway to rundown torque.

Rundown torque is the amount of torque required to have a threaded fastner draw the components the fastner is supposed to hold into contact BEFORE you start torquing it up. In theory if you know the rundown value you add that to the final desired torque.

ITs a pain in the ass when you do have to deal with it and its part of the reason that the phrase "torque in sequence and in stages" came about. In day to day use if you use the correct tensioning pattern and do the bolts up a little bit at a time then run over them all with the torque wrench a second time you will usually eliminate rundown torque issues. HOWEVER. That assumes a perfect world scenario If you have a warped piece that needs to be pulled flat, if you have a dodgy thread, some crap in the hole, suffer galling on the way in have thermal difference issues, have a badly made nut or bolt, are using the wrong nut/bolt or any other of the plethora of things that can pooch the motion of the fixture (nut/bolt/stud) that can add some big numbers to the rundown torque.

Heres where it gets dangerous. If you try to measure the rundown torque and you find it and like your supposed to you add the rundown torque figure to the desired torque figure you can wind up over stressing the fixture or the component and it'll fail.

My advice.

If you encounter rundown torque while assembling a component (bolts that you cant wind in by hand) find out why and sort that problem out. IF theres a good reason for it (its a bloody big bolt, its a nyloc nut, its holding something heavy that wants to sit on the threads) mount the thing in place and put in some dummy bolts wind them down to your initial torquing value (remember in sequence in STAGES) then remove and replace them one by one with the correct fastener.

Where possable the use of guide dowels to locate the component first and a little brain one about the tensioning sequence will eliminate about 90% of the problems you find with rundown torque thats not caused by thread abuse.

[Panda]

Thanks MG ...

Couldn't understand why it was necessary to learn what all the various engine parts are made of ... makes sense though.

But how the hell are you supposed to know the rundown torque value in the first place?

I actually torque 3 times ... 1/3 third, 2/3 thirds, then full torqu Then do the last step again, to ensure I haven't missed any. Over doing it do you think?

What do you mean by "Where possable the use of guide dowels to locate the component first ?" ...

And what's a "its a nyloc nut?"

Thanks MG ... I'll leave you alone now ... :D







galling is essentially the removal of metal when 2 pieces of metal are forced to slide along each other. its usually a microscopic effect and is generaly more noticable when a corse hard material (like say a steel file) is dragged across a softer metal (like say aluminium) if you try this you will notice that the alluminium gets stuck in the file, ITs the same deal with threads on a bolt. This is usually bought about by not cleaning out the threads of the nut/bolt/stud or when there is defects in the production of either. At the microscopic level its not a big deal when it becomes noticable it is. First off because where theres thread damage you have a potential fail point (stripping the threads entirely or jambing and snapping the fixture) but worse it has the potential to skew your torque setting.

nice segway to rundown torque.



Rundown torque is the amount of torque required to have a threaded fastner draw the components the fastner is supposed to hold into contact BEFORE you start torquing it up. In theory if you know the rundown value you add that to the final desired torque.

ITs a pain in the ass when you do have to deal with it and its part of the reason that the phrase "torque in sequence and in stages" came about. In day to day use if you use the correct tensioning pattern and do the bolts up a little bit at a time then run over them all with the torque wrench a second time you will usually eliminate rundown torque issues. HOWEVER. That assumes a perfect world scenario If you have a warped piece that needs to be pulled flat, if you have a dodgy thread, some crap in the hole, suffer galling on the way in have thermal difference issues, have a badly made nut or bolt, are using the wrong nut/bolt or any other of the plethora of things that can pooch the motion of the fixture (nut/bolt/stud) that can add some big numbers to the rundown torque.

Heres where it gets dangerous. If you try to measure the rundown torque and you find it and like your supposed to you add the rundown torque figure to the desired torque figure you can wind up over stressing the fixture or the component and it'll fail.

My advice.

If you encounter rundown torque while assembling a component (bolts that you cant wind in by hand) find out why and sort that problem out. IF theres a good reason for it (its a bloody big bolt, its a nyloc nut, its holding something heavy that wants to sit on the threads) mount the thing in place and put in some dummy bolts wind them down to your initial torquing value (remember in sequence in STAGES) then remove and replace them one by one with the correct fastener.

Where possable the use of guide dowels to locate the component first and a little brain one about the tensioning sequence will eliminate about 90% of the problems you find with rundown torque thats not caused by thread abuse.

[Blknight.aus]

Thanks MG ...

Couldn't understand why it was necessary to learn what all the various engine parts are made of ... makes sense though.

But how the hell are you supposed to know the rundown torque value in the first place?
You measure it, usually with a deflection indicating torque wrench or similar


I actually torque 3 times ... 1/3 third, 2/3 thirds, then full torqu Then do the last step again, to ensure I haven't missed any. Over doing it do you think?

Nope thats about the accepted standard If Im going something thats super sensitive to stress loading (say fuel tank access panels with compress to seal gaskets) Ive been known to go 5 increments

What do you mean by "Where possable the use of guide dowels to locate the component first ?" ...
a dowel is basically a bolt without a head on it, thread one or 2 in then slide the comonent into place on them, jiggle the component or get some shimming material in to centralize it so that none of the threads on the remaining bolts touch the sides when you screw them in.

And what's a "its a nyloc nut?" A nylock nut is a vibration resistant nut that has a nylon insert at the top when you wind it on the nylon binds on the thread. its enough that you cant tighten them on by hand.

Thanks MG ... I'll leave you alone now ... :D

^ in blue

[Ace]

Sounds great Matt, at least you had a much deserved break. Look forward to going out with you again - it's been awhile! :D

Yes, it has been a while, i look forward to it.