New Fraser island backpacker 4wd rules

[Utemad]

New laws target backpacker safety on Fraser Island

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/351.jpg
Paramedics treat injured tourists at the scene of the fatal Fraser Island crash in April.

July 26, 2009 - 11:07AM
New laws will restrict the number of people and amount of luggage hire vehicles can carry on Fraser Island following the deaths of two tourists.
Italian Concetta Dell'Angelo, 26, and Ian Davy, 22, from the UK died after being thrown from a Toyota troop carrier (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/two-backpackers-die-in-fraser-island-crash-20090418-aak8.html)when it rolled three times on the World Heritage listed island in April.
The nine other backpackers in the car were also hurt when the driver swerved to avoid a wave, with two receiving spinal injuries.
The speed limit on the island was dropped to 80km/h following the crash, which also prompted calls for greater driver training for hire vehicles.
Transport Minister Rachel Nolan announced on Sunday new restrictions on hire 4WDs would allow only seven people to travel inside, down from the current maximum of 11.
Luggage will also be prevented from being carried on roofs to stop the vehicles from being as top-heavy and lessen the chance of a roll-over.
Ms Nolan said statistics showed the greatest crash risk on Fraser Island was faced by foreign visitors in hired troop carriers.
"There is a safety issue among groups of visitors, generally backpackers, who have been able to come from abroad without relevant driving experience, load up a troop carrier and take off," she said in a statement.
"That clear evidence of a specific safety problem can't be ignored and it is why I have decided to take this targeted action."
She said the government would work with operators on a timeframe to give them enough time to modify vehicles or replace their fleets.
Ms Nolan said a recent blitz on hire vehicle operators on the island had found just 59 out of 90 vehicles were roadworthy.



New laws target backpacker safety on Fraser Island (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/new-laws-target-backpacker-safety-on-fraser-island-20090726-dx6n.html)

[Outlaw]

A good start :)

[Debacle]

Main thing they need to do is cut the number of seats in the vehicles.

There was 12 people in that one that rolled, assuming an average of 75kg per passenger equals 900kg of passengers without taking into account their gear, a lot of which would have been on the roof rack making the situation even worse.

Make a maximum of five passengers per vehicle and take off the roof racks.

[McDisco]

They need to ensure that the operators only hire them to people that have some experience. There should at least be a 1 hour mandatory workshop on sand driving.

Angus

[Armadillo]

Unfortunately they can't legislate against inexperienced drivers, idiots and unscrupulous hirers (who BTW at a recent inpection were found have some 25% of unroadworthy vehicles). It may be a start, but I personally can't see it making much difference.

[solmanic]

Unfortunately they can't legislate against inexperienced drivers...

Yes they can... if they had any balls.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - introduce a license class for vehicles with a low-ratio gearbox. 18 months grace period for those of us who already have high/low ratio vehicles to get our licenses upgraded, then bring it into full force.

No way then can an unlicensed driver (especially one from overseas) be able to hire a 2 tonne Troopie and park it on it's lid on a beach somewhere!

[camel_landy]

Yes they can... if they had any balls.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - introduce a license class for vehicles with a low-ratio gearbox.


What about a 4x4s without low-range??? (Auto gearboxes do a very good job of compensating for a lack of low-range...)
What about your 'lifestyle choice' family who want to own a Discovery but never select low-range??


I see where you're going but I think it would be somewhat open to abuse... It'll also instantly kill off the 4wd market in Oz!

Most people would see those regs and say "Why would I want to upgrade my license?", the only people who would take up the option would be the more 'hardcore' 4x4 user. Then, if they don't have the option on their license, they will instantly discount anything with low-range as they won't want to take another test just to drive that type of car.

Finally, that will then lead to the bottom falling out of the Oz market for all 4x4s with a low-range gearbox (wether people would be using it or not). In turn, that would push up the price through the good old rules of supply & demand.

M

[p38arover]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - introduce a license class for vehicles with a low-ratio gearbox. 18 months grace period for those of us who already have high/low ratio vehicles to get our licenses upgraded, then bring it into full force.

That would include Subarus with manual gearboxes.

[Sprint]

first thing, teach the buggers basic road rules, watched a car come up the WRONG side of a dived main street last night....... with 2 ethnics in it!

[solmanic]

What about a 4x4s without low-range??? (Auto gearboxes do a very good job of compensating for a lack of low-range...)

The only 4x4s I can think of without low range are soft-roaders anyway (I'm sure someone will enlighten me if there are other, serious ones). These are generally designed with more of an on-road bias so pose less of a threat to inexperienced drivers. Also without the swags of available accessories there is less chance of someone trying to take one to Fraser Island, and no regular hire company would let them anyway.


What about your 'lifestyle choice' family who want to own a Discovery but never select low-range??

Tough! The license class needs to be for the intended use of the vehicle. As far as I'm concerned, if you buy a "real" 4x4 you should be properly trained or get something more appropriate. We do it for motorcycles.

I see where you're going but I think it would be somewhat open to abuse... It'll also instantly kill off the 4wd market in Oz!

I personally think it will improve it. Most 4x4s sold here are not dual range and not capable of crossing the Simpson. We are only really talking about 20-odd actual vehicle models (that I can count off the top of my head). Manufacturers of these vehicles would just have to promote safe off-road driving by offering the equivalent of a motorcycle "Q-Ride" (not sure what other states have) to get purchasers' licenses upgraded to include the new class.

Most people would see those regs and say "Why would I want to upgrade my license?", the only people who would take up the option would be the more 'hardcore' 4x4 user. Then, if they don't have the option on their license, they will instantly discount anything with low-range as they won't want to take another test just to drive that type of car.

The point here is that tall, heavy, 4x4 vehicles pose a risk of injury or death to the inexperienced operator off-road which are different to risks faced by regular cars on-road. I would rather be forced to upgrade my license than have the government lock-up more and more bush tracks and interesting, 4x4 accessible wilderness areas because of litigation paralysis.

Finally, that will then lead to the bottom falling out of the Oz market for all 4x4s with a low-range gearbox (wether people would be using it or not). In turn, that would push up the price through the good old rules of supply & demand.

Like I said, this legislation would not affect most soft-roaders and that's where the real volume sales are anyway. The companies like Land Rover & Nissan but more importantly Toyota who produce some volume of dual-range 4x4 sales should be smart enough to make this work to their advantage. After all, Land Rover already have their own driver training scheme and use this as part of their appeal.

M


That would include Subarus with manual gearboxes.

I take your point so maybe the regulations would need to include a nominated kerb weight and vehicle height or ground clearance (thinking of Suzuki Jimnys here which should also require the license IMO).


So this is how I see it working...

Using QLD as an example, introduce a new license class C4 (general cars are C). This means the motorist is licensed to drive off-road capable 4WD or AWD motor vehicles with a dual-range or low ratio (includes single-range vehicles with ultra-low first or crawler gears)gearbox and a kerb weight inexcess of 1800kg OR ground clearance inexcess of 190mm with a greater than 1 height:width ratio.

ie. heavy or tall purpose built off-road vehicles.

I'm sure some boffins would be able to refine this so the legislation doesn't incorrectly cover the wrong cars but it is just an idea. The rules above would therefore cover the Suzuki Jimny but not Subaru Forester as an example.

[Tote]

A good start :)
Agreed, seems like a sensible initial response.

Regards,
Tote

[weeds]

its a start........unfortunitly there will be the human factor and it won't be the last incident

bad all none queenslanders from entering the island:p

[Chops]

Im with you Solmanic,

I agree that something needs to be done,,,we, as regular 4X4ers have accidents and moments too,,, and we're trained,, through experience with the fact we learn with mates etc when we go out, and the fact most of us use our vehicles as daily drivers,,,

When the visitors hire these Troopies etc, and drive on the beaches and even in the bush/outback,, you'll probably find most of them have never driven anything larger than a Ford Laser or equivilent,,,
It'd be a bit like most of us jumping into a B-Double,,

And maybe if there was a slow-up in the 4x4 market, we might be able to get some more local vehicles made,,(its not like we couldn't use the work)

[VladTepes]

Yes they can... if they had any balls.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - introduce a license class for vehicles with a low-ratio gearbox. 18 months grace period for those of us who already have high/low ratio vehicles to get our licenses upgraded, then bring it into full force.


I completely DISAGREE !

The LAST THING we need as a country and especially as four wheel drivers (or hunters, or fishermen etc) is MORE LEGISLATION>

The pollies have already tied one hand behind our backs - don;t think that a $wd licence wouldn;t be used as anotehr means of control / taking people out of the past-time and as a means of further restricting us !

get real mate !

[miky]

Using QLD as an example, introduce a new license class C4 (general cars are C).


Ok, so you reckon that QLD 4x4 drivers are that bad do you :angel:

So long as us excellent drivers from SA don't have to have a new class :)

Seriously now... what a lot of crap!

I guess you want to ban bull bars and lifts and ??? etc. as well. Or perhaps we could have another licence class for those??

[solmanic]

I completely DISAGREE !

The LAST THING we need as a country and especially as four wheel drivers (or hunters, or fishermen etc) is MORE LEGISLATION>

So you disagree with the idea that there is currently nothing stopping incompetent people from endangering themselves and others by purchasing or hiring a large 4x4 and putting it on its lid on a beach somewhere? Do you think that situation is OK???

The pollies have already tied one hand behind our backs - don;t think that a $wd licence wouldn;t be used as anotehr means of control / taking people out of the past-time and as a means of further restricting us !

It's like having a boat license or motorbike license. No-one is stopping anyone from enjoying off-roading as a recreational pursuit. And as I said earlier, I would hope that having better educated & trained people off-roading might mean the government doesn't have to keep closing stuff down!

get real mate !

Sounds like a comment from someone who fears they might fail their off-road driving test if you ask me :p. Seriously, what have competent and intelligent members of the 4WD-ing community (like ourselves) got to fear? Just upgrade your license and get back to doing what you love.


Ok, so you reckon that QLD 4x4 drivers are that bad do you :angel:

My example has nothing to do with Qld drivers, I was just using that as an example because I am familiar with the licensing classifications.

So long as us excellent drivers from SA don't have to have a new class :)

Seriously now... what a lot of crap!

As I said above, are you also afraid of being made to do another driving test?

I guess you want to ban bull bars and lifts and ??? etc. as well. Or perhaps we could have another licence class for those??

WTF! I don't see how proposing the introduction of another license class has anything to do with vehicle modifications. Let's focus on the issue here - it's about inexperienced drivers being allowed to endanger themselves & others by using equipment they are not familiar with in a manner they have had no training in.

Yes, it's another step towards a nanny state,
Yes, it's yet another little piece of bureucracy we might have to deal with...
...but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

[isuzurover]

Yes they can... if they had any balls.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - introduce a license class for vehicles with a low-ratio gearbox. 18 months grace period for those of us who already have high/low ratio vehicles to get our licenses upgraded, then bring it into full force.

No way then can an unlicensed driver (especially one from overseas) be able to hire a 2 tonne Troopie and park it on it's lid on a beach somewhere!

Your proposition is unworkable.

The hire companies would either get an exemption or get the law overturned. Or they would modify/buy vehicles that got around the new rules.

Even if they did bring such laws in - many people with OS licences could probably successfully argue that they comply. e.g. take Germany:
- it costs e2000 or so to get a drivers licence
- you need to sit a whole battery of written and practical tests
- the experience/tests MUST include night driving, autobahn driving, etc, etc...
- Australian licences are only valid in germany for a grace period of 6 months - after that, you need to do all the licence tests.
- many German people have HV licences, as military/civil service is compulsory (for males).
- Unimogs have LL/L/M/H ranges ;)

All of the above doesn't mean you can drive on sand at high speed. Which is the main issue here, and is not addressed by your proposed changes.

[Grover-98]

It says the speed was DROPPED to 80Kmph... what was the original speed limit?

Personally i wouldn't even want to do 80Kmph! :angel: seems as if they are being generous and these changes are more then welcomed on my behalf as it will in turn prevent injury, and the idea of training those hireing vehicles would be a great idea, as this crash MAY have been avoided if the driver were to hit the wave rather then swerve on the unstable footing of sand.

Shame it takes death for these things to be looked at :(


James.

[solmanic]

Your proposition is unworkable.

The hire companies would either get an exemption or get the law overturned. Or they would modify/buy vehicles that got around the new rules.

The possible example I've outlined would require a hell of a lot of butchering of any vehicle to change its classification. Lowering, weight shedding, not to mention dropping the entire transfer case. And if they modified the vehicles to dodge the licensing classification this would reduce the vehicle's capabilities and how would they avoid the vehicle failing a roadworthy?

Even if they did bring such laws in - many people with OS licences could probably successfully argue that they comply. e.g. take Germany:
- it costs e2000 or so to get a drivers licence
- you need to sit a whole battery of written and practical tests
- the experience/tests MUST include night driving, autobahn driving, etc, etc...
- Australian licences are only valid in germany for a grace period of 6 months - after that, you need to do all the licence tests.
- many German people have HV licences, as military/civil service is compulsory (for males).
- Unimogs have LL/L/M/H ranges ;)

In the same way that Germany has extra training & testing for high speed freeway driving, Australia should have it's own training for our unique conditions. Now I'm pretty sure no other country has an off-road vehicle license class so why shouldn't Australia be the first? As for foreign license holders, they would need to get Australian C4 accreditation before they could hire or drive such vehicles like everyone else. If they were visiting for a few weeks, then no point - can't hire a Troopie - potential disaster averted. If they were here for a few months then they have the option to do the same driver training & testing as anyone living here and get an endorsement on their foreign drivers license then happy trails.

All of the above doesn't mean you can drive on sand at high speed. Which is the main issue here, and is not addressed by your proposed changes.

Exactly why the separate class is required. I was only outlining the possible vehicle characteristics which would require the driver to hold a class C4 license. But obviously the testing would need to cover what you are referring to, ie. basic off-road technique & theory. Not unlike the GCLRO Driver Awareness and Recovery Exercise but with testing.


It says the speed was DROPPED to 80Kmph... what was the original speed limit?

It was 100km/h and considered the same as any open highway.

Shame it takes death for these things to be looked at :(

Ain't that the truth.

[WhiteD3]

Just ban self-drive hire cars. This would stop the tourists from driving and create a new job market for tour drivers. In fact baning troopies would go a long way towards fixing the problem IMHO.

[VladTepes]

Yeah right Sol - just like the Government hasn't used gun licensing to crack down and restrict gun ownership. :rolleyes:

[Albert]

Most rules thought up are just knee jerk reactions made up to make it look like they are doing something.
If people have a international liecense they are entitled to drive here, mess around with the rules and you will destroy the tourist industry. We have to keep in step with the rest of the world. I have driven in 25 countries on my Aust/inernational liecense and the last thing I would want to do is have do more paper work. There is not even any need to know the local road rules when you come here, knowing you need a special liecense is just something else you wouldent know.
It was a bad crash that they had, but there are bad crashes on the road every day.
Driver attitude is more important that most of the rules they keep changing.:mad:

[Panda]

I've never been to Fraser Island, so can't really pass that much comment. But 2 things struck me ... firstly, statistically, how many accidents have there been there in the past say, 10 odd years, & have those accidents involved predominately tourists from other countries, or Aussies holidaying there as well?

Secondly, do they have reputable tour operators who take people driving on the beach?

Thirdly, would it be a workable scenario to legislate that foreign tourists can only drive on the beach if they are taken by a reputable tour guide? i.e. they are not permitted to hire vehicles, but are permitted to join a tour guide. It will stuff the hire vehicle's business, though they could still hire out to locals etc, and it would boost the tour guide proprietors. For an extra fee, the proprietors could allow the foreigner's to drive under their instruction maybe. Yes, it will be more expensive, but I think it's expected you are to pay more for such "outings" in a foreign country.

[2stroke]

Well I think there's too many tourist dollars involved to stop backpackers. The family and I went to Fraser a few times every year in the 80s and 90s but I got to be a little nervous seeing approaching troopies, speeding, overloaded and driven by a drunken scandinavian thinking he or she's a rally driver. The thought of a head on wasn't pleasant. Been going to Moreton ever since. To me the scariest thing about that accident is that the troopie was heading north and swerved to miss a wave, where do you go if you're heading south and that thing is approaching at speed on the "wrong side of the road"?

[300+]

This came up in the news again today and I had a thought...

Does the ban on luggage on the roof also include roof top tents? That will upset a lot of people.

What about those who have Oz tents which can't fit inside and have to be on the roof? Fit some skateboard wheels and drag it behind?

Cheers, Steve

[djhampson]

This came up in the news again today and I had a thought...

Does the ban on luggage on the roof also include roof top tents? That will upset a lot of people.

What about those who have Oz tents which can't fit inside and have to be on the roof? Fit some skateboard wheels and drag it behind?

Cheers, Steve

Good point and what about Roof rack mounted awnings, fishing rods, shade shelters etc. Surely they all count as luggage?

Bloody stupid law if you ask me! But what can you expect from a State Government like ours.



What about a 4x4s without low-range??? (Auto gearboxes do a very good job of compensating for a lack of low-range...)

The only 4x4s I can think of without low range are soft-roaders anyway (I'm sure someone will enlighten me if there are other, serious ones).

Freelanders! :p

The beach is where most soft-roaders are taken (aside from school and shopping centres) so I'm not sure a limitation on Low Range only would be all that effective.

[mns488]

the only thing going on my roof when we go to fraser (in Feb 2010) is the whinging pom that is coming (if he starts whinging that is)....;)