identifying a GM diesel engine?

[Sprint]

a friend has a GM diesel engine sitting in his shed, and to the best of anyones knowledge it dates from the mid-late 50's

how would i go about identifying it? (model number, etc)

[Bigbjorn]

a friend has a GM diesel engine sitting in his shed, and to the best of anyones knowledge it dates from the mid-late 50's

how would i go about identifying it? (model number, etc)

It should have an ID plate on it giving the model code and the specification it was built to. If missing or painted over, get the number off the block, send the number and a photo to MTU Detroit Diesel Australia.

If from the 50's it is most likely a 3-71, 4-71, or 6-71. Maybe a 110 series but these are rare.

[V8Ian]

It should have an ID plate on it giving the model code and the specification it was built to. If missing or painted over, get the number off the block, send the number and a photo to MTU Detroit Diesel Australia.

If from the 50's it is most likely a 3-71, 4-71, or 6-71. Maybe a 110 series but these are rare.
More likely to be a 53 from that era. One thing's for sure, it's not a 60 Series.:p

[Sprint]

all i can find is a model code of 6080....... the rest is unreadable

[Bigbjorn]

all i can find is a model code of 6080....... the rest is unreadable

That seems to be an older model code than any in my DDA manuals. How many cylinders? In-line or V? What was it used in?

[Sprint]

first digits of the serial number appear to be 6A, which makes it a 6-71..... a bit overkill for what i'd had in mind for it i think

[Bigbjorn]

If it is a 6-71N in automotive rating is is rated at 238hp @ 2100rpm, 600 ft/lbs @ 1600 rpm, weight with normal automotive accessories, fan to flywheel 993 kgs.

[Sprint]

was thinking it might be suitable for a repower on a 1960 F600.....

the only listing i could find online for a 6-71 in a 6080 model was in a LARC

[Bigbjorn]

No wucking furries as a repower for an F600 except top speed may be unacceptable. May need to change the trans. and the diff ratio. Don't know what rating was used in a LARC, suspect not 238hp. Easy to change anyway. Just whack in the right injectors and re-calibrate the governor.

[Pierre]

LARC 5 I did my training in had Cummins power, but wouldn't have been surprised to hear of alternate engines.

Pete

[V8Ian]

LARC 5 I did my training in had Cummins power, but wouldn't have been surprised to hear of alternate engines.

Pete
555 (triple 5) or more commonly called triple trouble? Basiclly a NA VT 190

[Sprint]

according to wikipedia the LARC spec 6-71's were a 165hp unit.....

Brian, what would you reccomend re: transmission and differentials? i know where i can source a 2 speed diff from a early/mid 50's chev

[V8Ian]

according to wikipedia the LARC spec 6-71's were a 165hp unit.....

Brian, what would you reccomend re: transmission and differentials? i know where i can source a 2 speed diff from a early/mid 50's chev
6 ser 9/10/13sp roadranger, they may be hard to find but a 9 ser would do.

[Sprint]

wouldnt that be a bit of overkill for a 5 ton truck?

[V8Ian]

wouldnt that be a bit of overkill for a 5 ton truck?
Be the easiest option for finding flywheel housing for the GM.

[Sprint]

any idea what it'd be like on fuel compared to something like a 7.3L powerstroke V8 from a F350?

[V8Ian]

any idea what it'd be like on fuel compared to something like a 7.3L powerstroke V8 from a F350?
I believe driven sensibly they can be ok, lots of options to get GMs marching. I've never owned one, ask someone ancient like Brian:p;):D

[Bigbjorn]

A 6-71 will chew up and spit out a 610/613 Fuller if you work it to capacity. You need a 9509/910/9513/915. Dont bother with two speed diffs if you have a range change trans. Two speed diffs are Fred Flintstone vintage crap, obsolete by 1960. Flywheel and flywheel housing on automotive spec 6-71 engines is usually SAE #2. Go around some specialist truck wreckers. Fuel usage on my 8V92TA's was comparable with other engines doing the same work. The couple of 53 series I owned were heavy on fuel but I feel in hindsight that this was because they were really too small for the job and were working their rings out just about all the time.

[V8Ian]

A 6-71 will chew up and spit out a 610/613 Fuller if you work it to capacity. You need a 9509/910/9513/915. Dont bother with two speed diffs if you have a range change trans. Two speed diffs are Fred Flintstone vintage crap, obsolete by 1960. Flywheel and flywheel housing on automotive spec 6-71 engines is usually SAE #2. Go around some specialist truck wreckers. Fuel usage on my 8V92TA's was comparable with other engines doing the same work. The couple of 53 series I owned were heavy on fuel but I feel in hindsight that this was because they were really too small for the job and were working their rings out just about all the time.
If the 71 is set below 200 hp the 6 ser box will handle it Brian, the hardest thing would be finding one these days.

[Bigbjorn]

If the 71 is set below 200 hp the 6 ser box will handle it Brian, the hardest thing would be finding one these days.

That combination is right on the limit of a 600 series capacity. A used or rebuilt box will not be as strong. OK for light work but if you push the power through it regularly you will have a short-lived transmission. 900 series were always put behind a 6-71 for prime mover or dog trailer work. At White Motor we never built anything with a 600 series transmission. Truckies could stuff 900 series so why risk the lighter box to their tender care.

[V8Ian]

That combination is right on the limit of a 600 series capacity. A used or rebuilt box will not be as strong. OK for light work but if you push the power through it regularly you will have a short-lived transmission. 900 series were always put behind a 6-71 for prime mover or dog trailer work. At White Motor we never built anything with a 600 series transmission. Truckies could stuff 900 series so why risk the lighter box to their tender care.
How do you stuff a RR? believe me I've tried :D I had a 12 ser in a White, outlasted two engines and three diffs on road train work. Previous to that a 6-13 direct behind a 240 HP, no issues. May be the difference between O/D and cowboys.

[Bigbjorn]

My experience with both truck drivers and plant operators has been that they can stuff anything. What do you do with people who won't cherck oils or water, put masking tape over flickering warning lights, drive with power divider lock engaged until something breaks, persistently use mystery gear on thirteen speeds after being firmly told not to, use the Jake Brake as a gear shifting aid on Cummins engines and so on.

[V8Ian]

My experience with both truck drivers and plant operators has been that they can stuff anything. What do you do with people who won't cherck oils or water, put masking tape over flickering warning lights, drive with power divider lock engaged until something breaks, persistently use mystery gear on thirteen speeds after being firmly told not to, use the Jake Brake as a gear shifting aid on Cummins engines and so on.
I have to put my hand up to the occasional use of the extra gear, but the others :wasntme:plain stupid :confused: obviously not the ones footing the bill.

[Bigbjorn]

Another good trick from a driver was, after bursting a water hose on an N series Cummins, to refill with tap water, no inhibitor, and not bothering to tell anyone. Velocity corrosion hole in a sleeve, hydraulic lock, bent con-rod and broken crankshaft.

It should have been allowable practice to show the driver to an empty office, and hand him the pistol with a single bullet, except most would probably shoot themselves in the foot not the head

[groucho]

OK I i gota chime in here. What is the problem with the mystery gear ?
It ain't special it aint a different part No, it works in Lo range
It only had a in between ratio thats all, With the 9 speeds it didn't match up
with the splitter ratio thats all. I have worked on Road Rangers for years
have used it for years Even the Mack 9 speed Done 525.000 K's and it still was going 3 years after i sold it. Myth .............. Mark

[Sprint]

supposedly it loads the countershaft in the gearbox up to a critical point, oil temps go through the roof, bearings and gear teeth fail, and bang.....

[Bigbjorn]

OK I i gota chime in here. What is the problem with the mystery gear ?
It ain't special it aint a different part No, it works in Lo range
It only had a in between ratio thats all, With the 9 speeds it didn't match up
with the splitter ratio thats all. I have worked on Road Rangers for years
have used it for years Even the Mack 9 speed Done 525.000 K's and it still was going 3 years after i sold it. Myth .............. Mark

I did ask a Tech. Rep. from Eaton-Fuller this question long time ago and got a detailed technical response by fax which I no longer have and can't remember.The maker doesn't like it and considers it forbidden practice and will dishonour warranty claims made where this usage is evident.

[groucho]

supposedly it loads the countershaft in the gearbox up to a critical point, oil temps go through the roof, bearings and gear teeth fail, and bang.....

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/8.jpg

A RoadRanger is a twin countershaft tranmission you can't load one
more than the other. All gears are constant mesh there is no sliding gears.
All gears have 2 teeth contact. The only thing that is not ideal is the
RTOO double overdrive box. Where the box spins too fast at the rear output
burning the thrust wasers. It may be not ideal to use the extra gear
but i am to be convinced that it will damage the box. Only driver abuse will.
You don't use it every time or all day.But now and then it don't hurt......

[Bigbjorn]

right. Here is the guts from Eaton regarding use of "mystery" gear.

The "mystery" gear should never be used at the higher speeds and torque loading the transmission is subjected to in high range. It is not designed for high torque usage. Instead of having several teeth meshed as in the normal arrangement, when in "mystery" position, the gear has only one tooth engaged so is naturally not as strong. It is there for low range usage only where the torque loading is not as severe as in high range. Continual usage in the higher speed/torque loading of high range will lead to excessive wear and gear failure.

[V8Ian]

right. Here is the guts from Eaton regarding use of "mystery" gear.

The "mystery" gear should never be used at the higher speeds and torque loading the transmission is subjected to in high range. It is not designed for high torque usage. Instead of having several teeth meshed as in the normal arrangement, when in "mystery" position, the gear has only one tooth engaged so is naturally not as strong. It is there for low range usage only where the torque loading is not as severe as in high range. Continual usage in the higher speed/torque loading of high range will lead to excessive wear and gear failure.
That being the case, it would be ok to use in a 12 series box; multimesh not being introduced until the 14 series, which superceded the 12.

[Bigbjorn]

The twin countershaft design uses the teeth on opposite sides of the floating mainshaft to spread the drive load over two sets of teeth. I rather gather that this is what they are on about. Ask them yourself. fullerpartsmelb@eaton.com

[groucho]

The twin countershaft design uses the teeth on opposite sides of the floating mainshaft to spread the drive load over two sets of teeth. I rather gather that this is what they are on about. Ask them yourself. fullerpartsmelb@eaton.com

The front half of thr R-R remains the same. constant mesh. No sliding gears.

The deal is with the rear or auxilary

[groucho]

The damage you will do is if you split onto overdrive when you change into hi range in the NO gear, it maybe will have less tooth contact in the aux. Keep it in didect and every thing stays the same. I havn't got to ask eaton fuller
My best mate worked for 12 years 8 hours a day doing RR's and eaton / rockwell diffs that's all he did. Showed me all the tricks to RR's......