Tickford @ Coffs Harbour.

[123rover50]

About 16 or more yrs ago I went to look at a Tickford that was for sale at Coffs. It was completely pulled to pieces , doors windows , engine minus crank, pistons, etc. Wood rotten ,Bulkhead beyond repair, and a bright and shiny galv chassis. But big problem the chassis was not a Tickford, I cant remember the no but it did not have the four little boxes on the rear cross member. The owner had taken the chassis to get hot dipped and been given back the wrong one. So somewhere down there is an 80" with a galv chassis with four little boxes on the back and the chassis number for Tickford 06200384.

[long stroke]

Mmmmmmmmm i wonder where in coffs it is located, not us..:D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...The owner had taken the chassis to get hot dipped and been given back the wrong one. So somewhere down there is an 80" with a galv chassis with four little boxes on the back and the chassis number for Tickford 06200384.Sounds like an excuse to explain the chassis swap to me. How many galvanisers would have ever had two 80" chassis at the same time? Most of the 80" that spent time in Coffs had rotten chassis because of the moisture in the banana plantations.

Still be nice to know it's current whereabouts.

Diana

[bobslandies]

About 16 or more yrs ago I went to look at a Tickford that was for sale at Coffs. It was completely pulled to pieces , doors windows , engine minus crank, pistons, etc. Wood rotten ,Bulkhead beyond repair, and a bright and shiny galv chassis. But big problem the chassis was not a Tickford, I cant remember the no but it did not have the four little boxes on the rear cross member. The owner had taken the chassis to get hot dipped and been given back the wrong one. So somewhere down there is an 80" with a galv chassis with four little boxes on the back and the chassis number for Tickford 06200384.

That number is not one of the Tickfords that I am aware was supplied to the SMHEA. Certainly they were also advertised in Australia.

I am interested to know what you mean about the chassis being different. My original 1948 Workshop Manual (TP/109/A issued December 1948 with updates from TP/109/B issued December 1949) has as an inclusion the Parts Listings for the Land Rover Station Wagon (Tickford) commencing Vehicle Numbers R8670001 / L8670001 and it states - "The Station Wagon body is mounted on a standard Land-Rover chassis, and the majority of spare parts are, therefore, the same as those required for the base model. The following pages, 159 to 192 inclusive, list the parts which are peculiar to the Station Wagon."

This is repeated in the Workshop Manual TP/138/B issued November 1951.
"The Station Wagon body is mounted on the standard Land-Rover chassis frame and the layout and controls are almost identical with those on the standard vehicle." (Section U-1). This manual covers, in addition to the vehicles covered by the 1948/49 manuals, vehicles R and L 06200001 - 06200264, then when the L and R prefixes (right and left hand drive) were dropped 06200265 onwards and 1951 models vehicle numbers 16200001 onwards.

I have to agree with Diana - if the vehicle was that deteriorated then the chassis was probably also beyond easy repair. Looks like a daunting job to restore properly. However, it could be done.

Nevertheless, it would be great to know what has happened to it since you saw it.

Bob

[ellard]

Hi there

I must admit that would be a big job - look at the rust on the firewall...

Quick question related to the Tickfords - how many made it to Australia and were the majority of them used on the SMH...

And how many is there know still to exsists?

All the best

Wayne

[123rover50]

Same chassis except there was four little boxes welded to the rear chassis crossmember to take the rear extension of the body and the early ones used these to mount the lower tailgate hinges. they stick out about 2".

[123rover50]

Hi Wayne, I was asking the exact same question a couple of weeks ago. No definite answer as yet.
Didiman.

[123rover50]

Hi Bob ,check these out.
cheers. Didiman

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Those little boxes don't seem to be on this Tickford!

http://www.historicinsurance.co.uk/historic/Gallery/1011.jpg

Or this one:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/36.jpg
So it's quite a mystery! :confused:

I wonder if the boxes were an in-service modification because the original hinge brackets weren't a success?

Diana

[B.S.F.]

About 13 to 14 years ago I bought a 51 80" with Holden engine which I intended to replace with the original 1600cc engine which came with it.Part of the sellers shed was held up by a rusty 80" chassis full of holes,well beyond repairs.I asked him if I could have it for the engine mounts which I needed for the conversion.After I cut
the mounts out I checked the number. R 06200384. I imidiatly rang the bloke back and asked him after the rest of the car,but he coudn't even remember how the chassis ended up at his place.I never got around to replacing the engine but I still
got the mount with the number on it.
http://100_2397

[123rover50]

Well buggame ,the chassis didnt get swapped at the galvenizers after all. Diana was right. We will have to think what to do now.

Diana ,The boxes are there behind that panel. those hinges are bolted to them. The later Tickfords had a different hinge arrangement, one at each end. but still had the boxes to support the rear body lower panel.

[bobslandies]

Have a look here:
TP111A - Tickford Station Wagon Catalogue 1948@@AMEPARAM@@/docinfo/7027298?access_key=key-20khrvjoueldq3avu3ex@@AMEPARAM@@7027298@@AMEPARAM@ @key-20khrvjoueldq3avu3ex.

It is basically what is included in my original manual.

Look at page 166 which shows the rear body mounting plate (item 7), then page 170 and you will see that the four tailgate hinges (item6) mount vertically with eight bolts (item 10), then go to page 176 which shows the rear body "finishing skirt panel" (item 30) to which the lights mount and how the hinges pass through it (the rectrangular holes).

I can't see any horizontal mounting for that particular type of hinge.

Bob

[123rover50]

O.K. behind the finishing skirt panel is the box ,closed except for the bottom, to get your spannerin to tighten the nuts of bolts 8 of pt no 215162 [fixing hinges to rear of chassis] SW up to no 06200300. After that they changed the hinges [cheaper] one at each end of the tailgate, screwed to the wood rear standing pillars 301600 [L.H.] and 301584 [R.H.]. The parts book does not show the later hinges either. However the boxes remain.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

O.K. things are getting a little less confusing now.

123rover90, you sure are a dark horse not telling us about your little project! :D

Great acquisition even if the chassis isn't the original. Wouldn't it be nice if 80" chassis were still available from the Rover dealer spare parts department!

I for one would be on the message system seeing if Mr BSF Nut would be happy to part with your Tickford body's original engine mount. But hey that is what I'd be doing others may go down a different road.

Keep us informed on progress, with piccys of course. :)

Diana

[123rover50]

Who have you been talking to??

Didiman.

P.S. The saga of the intro hadnt got this far yet. The 109 F.C. is still in N.Z. ex Bougainville. Next episode gets to Mooloolaba. still predates the Tickford.

Didiman.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Just a feeling by your posts.

If I'm wrong then so be it. :)

Diana

[123rover50]

You are not wrong.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Just so you know, there were eleven Tickfords that came through the NSW dealer Grenville Motors, only 4 of them were delivered to the Snowy Mountains Hydro Electricity Commission.

Your 384 does not appear in the Grenville Motors books but is very close to some that did appear, so it is likely that yours was in the same batch dispatched to Australia. Only the UK records from the BMIHT Gaydon Museum will be able to inform you which master distributor your vehicle was sent.

I'm thinking that it is likely to have been Annand and Thompson's in Brisbane, for which the sales records no longer exist.

Diana

[123rover50]

Nearly 20 years ago, I was given an 80" bushbasher [ thanks Glen], no engine or tranny, cut away mudguards etc . After my visit to Coffs I happened to look at that chassis. Surprise Surprise No 06200380. Guess where it is now ? I wonder what happened to the rest of it. What do I do now ??

[bobslandies]

O.K. behind the finishing skirt panel is the box ,closed except for the bottom, to get your spannerin to tighten the nuts of bolts 8 of pt no 215162 [fixing hinges to rear of chassis] SW up to no 06200300. After that they changed the hinges [cheaper] one at each end of the tailgate, screwed to the wood rear standing pillars 301600 [L.H.] and 301584 [R.H.]. The parts book does not show the later hinges either. However the boxes remain.

That explains it then.

Bob

[bobslandies]

Nearly 20 years ago, I was given an 80" bushbasher [ thanks Glen], no engine or tranny, cut away mudguards etc . After my visit to Coffs I happened to look at that chassis. Surprise Surprise No 06200380. Guess where it is now ? I wonder what happened to the rest of it. What do I do now ??

So it seems you have Tickford chassis 06200380 supplied through Grenvilles and other parts from 06200384 supplied by Regents, while B.S.F. Nut has the engine mount from 06200384.

Obviously you know a lot about these vehicles, so what you do now is stop playing games and teasing us......and show us more photos of your great find!

Bob

[123rover50]

To add to the discussion on tail gate hinges, here are piks of 379, when it was for sale on the sunshine coast 15 odd years ago. Before it was bought by its present owner.Compare the rear with the pik Diana posted earlier.
Another mystery is 379 has lights through the grill, while the photo I posted of the Coffs 384 show lights behind the grill.

[123rover50]

Hi BSF Nut Could you send me a P.M. please, I cant work out how it works. Re reuniting the mt with the body.

Cheers Didiman.

[bobslandies]

To add to the discussion on tail gate hinges, here are piks of 379, when it was for sale on the sunshine coast 15 odd years ago. Before it was bought by its present owner.Compare the rear with the pik Diana posted earlier.
Another mystery is 379 has lights through the grill, while the photo I posted of the Coffs 384 show lights behind the grill.

In production vehicles (as opposed to Tickfords) the head lights sticking through the grille panel was introduced at veh 06111547 (produced about April 1950). The fishplate type chassis ended at 06103841 (around November 1949). 379 was delivered here in October 1950.

Of interest is that the first Land Rover that went to Tickfords was pre-production L20 in mid 1948 so they were mindful of the potential of an "estate car" right from the start.

Bob

[50LRO]

Just to add a clearer picky of the earlier hinge

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/08/1821.jpg

50LRO







.

[101RRS]

Maybe I could do a replica now that I am approaching retirement. Replica GTHOs go for 10 times the value of the donor vehicle - maybe I could do the same with a Tickford replica.:)

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

In production vehicles (as opposed to Tickfords) the head lights sticking through the grille panel was introduced at veh 06111547 (produced about April 1950). According to the TP111/G book the headlamps poked through the grille at 06200311 & 06300031
The fishplate type chassis ended at 06103841 (around November 1949). 379 was delivered here in October 1950.According to the TP111/G book the fishplate chassis ended at 06200091 & 06300021

[bobslandies]

I quoted the general changes to get an idea of the month of production of the vehicles, rather than when the number changed in the Tickfords/Welders production series.

To set the record straight from TP 111/G 7th Edition

The Fishplate chassis ended with General Production 06103840; Tickford 06200091; Welder 06300021.
The headlights through the grille [Grille panel assembly (part #236109) and grille (#301900)] began with General Production 06111547; Tickford 06200312; Welder 06300031.
The 2 1/2" wide front springs were introduced at General Production 06113530;Tickford 06200410; Welder 06300031.

So, the Tickford vehicle in post #22 (06200379) is correct in having the headlights through the grille.

General Production 061xxxxx (15,440 produced in 1950); Tickford series 06200xxx (480 produced in 1950); Welder series 063000xx (30 produced in 1950).

It would also appear that 70 Tickfords and 10 Welders had been built in 1949 and a further 100 Tickfords and 20 Welders were built in 1951. Tickford production then ceased but 36 Welders were built in 1952 and a further 22 were built in 1953 after which they did not have a special series of their own (From Mike Combridge's research).

Bob

[Lotz-A-Landies]

No you quoted the chassis number for the production model and then a guestimate of the date based upon when the Tickford vehicle arrived in Australia and was eventually sold to a customer when you just as easily could have quoted the Tickford chassis number, which you obviously had.

[ellard]

Hi there all

I would like to clarify with the gentleman whom started this post - do you have a "Tickford" and if you do so I would love to see some pictures.....

What were the major differences between a standard 80" and a tickford eg seating/dash etc..and what was there claim to fame although short lived.

All the best

Wayne

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Wayne

All good questions.

May I suggest that the Tickford was the first SUV it had seating for 7 (very squashed) people in a car/station wagon body and constant four wheel drive.

The dash was the same although the front doors had wind up windows. The rear had a full width tailgate and flat floor with wheel humps, things that we wouldn't see in other Land Rovers until the production of Range Rover in 1970.

It's demise was in the problems of mass producing a wooden framed body and having it hold together. When the hardtops started production in late 1950 it was easier to deluxe trim the hardtop than to build a completely different body of the Tickford.

[bobslandies]

No you quoted the chassis number for the production model and then a guestimate of the date based upon when the Tickford vehicle arrived in Australia and was eventually sold to a customer when you just as easily could have quoted the Tickford chassis number, which you obviously had.

The Welder series numbers were irrelevant. Your post has since been edited to include the Tickford number series otherwise I would not have posted to clear up any possible confusion this may have introduced with readers who do not have access to the intricasies of different build sequences.

What I was only attempting to establish was the latest date when vehicle Tickford 379 would have been started to be built, not the first or last serial number of any particular production change. I have not had the opportunity to look at any dated components (wheels, radiator, starter motor, generator, regulator, coil, distributor, fuel pump, carburettor and so on) to base an estimate and of course providing that they have not been changed since 1950.

Parts Catalogue TP111/G 7th Edition (the commonly available one) does not have a Tickford Station Wagon sub-section, but has a reference to the Tickford and Welder sequences with each production change that affected those types of vehicles.

The unique parts in the 1950 Tickford model at least are the cable operated wiper motor (Lucas CR4 G96) and the column operated switch (Lucas SC/14G) which controls the trafficator (home models) or direction turn indicators (export).

It was highlighted as being unusual by the original poster that 379 had the improved headlight assembly, while 384 had the headlights behind the grille. It has now been established that from 06200312 Tickfords should have the later headlights.
You can see in the photo in post #22 that 379 does not appear to have the Fishplate chassis ends but this could have been repaired or changed during its lifetime.

The chassis frame is the main building block to put the handbuilt body on. Tickfords bodies were a lot more complex to manufacture in a smaller specialist business. The reason I quoted the General Production serial numbers was an attempt to establish roughly when the last 1950 model Fishplate chassis would have been made in the calendar year.

I doubt if the chassis number was stamped when it left Tickfords - so the Tickford number really did not help to give us an idea of when the vehicle started to be put together which is all I was trying to determine. The use of the newer improved headlight / radiator support was a much easier change during assembly and recording for publication in parts books.

This is drifting off the topic and like Wayne has pointed out we would like to see some more. Over to you 123rover50!

Bob

[master chief]

Hello All,
A few pics of 379 when i used to own it.
Justin.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/08/1720.jpg

[master chief]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/08/1719.jpg

[master chief]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/08/1718.jpg

[master chief]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/08/1717.jpg

[master chief]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/08/1716.jpg

[master chief]

Further to this,the chassis on 379 was 100% original,and was not a fishplate chassis.

Justin.

[ellard]

Hi there all

Many thanks Diana, - and Justin for the pictures....

I think seeing one first hand will answer majority of my questions...

All the best

PS - the gentleman whom stated this hyperthetical question - does he have one or teasing us all.

Wayne