Trying to get my head round things.

[austastar]

Hi,
part of my post vocational training is getting my head round the various makes of 4wd on the market with what each make/model is best suited for and what make/model will do what I think I want it to do.

I want to carry a slide-on, and have pretty well nailed that down to the Innovan (http://innovan.com.au). It is similar to what we have in the way of an old Toyota dyna (http://www.myswag.org/gallery/d/6289-2/Edgcumbe+Beach+track.JPG) camper, and we like the way we can travel and stealth camp with out the drama of 'occupying' territory by pitching camp and making ourselves a target for any officious local council employee enforcing the 'No Camping' regulations of the area.

The choice of cab chassis was going to be Cruiser or Patrol at first, but Mr N. discontinued the 4.2L motor, and Mr T decided on different wheel tracks.
Not to worry, I'm not in a rush to sell the camper yet.

Just to confuse the issue now of course I find the Defender is back as a cab chassis.

Printing out the brochures from the 3 websites and trying to make sense of the dimensions of tray lengths, wheel bases and 60% legal over hangs was starting to addle the brain, so I decided to do it visually and see which, if any satisfied the TLAR rule. (That looks about right).

Setting up a drawing program with a scale of 1:20 and knowing the given dimensions of the wheel bases, I snaffled some side-on images of the three vehicles and made them all the same scale.
As the Nissan image came from the Innovan site, it came complete with an Innovan piggy backed already, I copied just the innovan from the Nissan and pasted it on to the Toyota and Defender 130. (The 110 might just scrape in for legal load length but for this exercise I left it out.)

http://www.myswag.org/gallery/d/8343-2/For-Web.jpg

View full size. (http://www.myswag.org/gallery/d/8342-1/For-Web.jpg)

My first surprise was how close the Nissan is to its maximum over-hang limit.
The Toyota sort of fitted where I thought it would, I have seen them with fairly ponderous slide-ons, and they seemed unstressed.
But look at the Defender - it is about 40cm inside its maximum tray length, and it looks stable; the rear wheel is rear of the centre of the load.
Mr T is about in the middle, and Mr N. is looking - well - not relaxed.

The other big surprise was the kerb weights vs the load capacity, I hadn't realised the Defender was so capable.

Well that was an interesting exercise for me, and I thought I would pass it on, though I dare say many here would have known the outcome.

cheers

[badger]

Something that may be worth you looking into is that the leaf sprung nissan has a longer wheel base than the coil sprung (pictured). That said it also has a zd30 grenade so id probably discount it :P

[Blknight.aus]

the T is also on a C section chassis and is known to pretzle with big torsional loadings.

[austastar]

Something that may be worth you looking into is that the leaf sprung nissan has a longer wheel base than the coil sprung (pictured). That said it also has a zd30 grenade so id probably discount it :P

Hi,
Brochure: 2970 for all three, but the leaf DX is 175mm longer overall (without tray)

The bloke who designed the Innovan has it on an air-bag ST 4.2L though.

cheers

[badger]

Sorry abut that i may have mislead you. i was just sure my leafy chassis was longer than the coil one its going on.
I still wouldnt use a coil nissan as they have a very low gvm and are well known for the rear coil mounts bending upwards and chassis cracking behind the cab if they are loaded.

One of the many reasons im going to look at a 130 dual cab next week. as well as "mr n" and "mr t" still not making a decent dual cab

[austastar]

Hi Badger,
A friend loaned me his dual cab 130 some time ago to shift a geology collection from under my parent's house, and it had to come out and up a very steep drive way. i.e. don't reverse up it in a RWD - the wheel spin on concrete isn't pleasant.
Any how the dual cab went up with a load of rocks in the back with no drama what so ever. I was very impressed with its ability, but have no need for the dual cab - I need a full tray.
I did like the 'extra cab' idea on a Mazda Bravo I had a look at - not interested in the vehicle, but the suicide door and jump seats were practical, and a bit of extra space in the 130 single cab would be some thing I would sacrifice 40cm of tray for, but doubt it will ever eventuate.
cheers

[austastar]

Hi,
Having now bought the D130, and still being keen on the Innovan, it was time to see if and how the two would go together.
Looking at a display Innovan on a ute at Agfest, I realised my assumption on how the thing tied down on the tray was wrong, and there were more things to get the brain around.
The offer to visit the factory and have a demo model placed on my tray to try it for fit etc was an offer too good to refuse, so we went up to Penguin (NW Tas) to get a little more familia with the beast.

A demo model was wheeled out on a trolley to be lifted onto the tray.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/31.jpg
Perceptions are a funny thing, it looked so small. Scary! Lots of uncertainty and doubts arose, how will we fit into that?

A couple of fork lifts raised it so I could back the ute under the unit.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/32.jpg


With the unit lowered on to the back and and the ute now carrying all the weight it looked huge.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/11/595.jpg
Scary again! Will it carry all that?

It is held down by chain and turn-buckles to the chassis, and I was worried that the line of the chains would foul some under tray access I wanted to make for drawers and storage for the spare wheel.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/33.jpg
Looks good so far. I will weld up some plates with loops for the chains to clip in to.

Various step combinations were tried to see which would be most suitable for the tray height.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/34.jpg
Three steps were too short, five are a bit long, we think that 4 should be about right. They will fit into a clip bolted to the rear edge of the tray.

With the roof up, we tried the inside for fit again.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/35.jpg
It is smaller than our present unit by quite a bit. (2 ton Toyota Dyna and fixed 'house' on the back) We hope to make up for the smaller space with the more efficient layout and having external access to storage will save a lot of double handling having 'outside' stuff outside.

There were some units on the factory floor, still in their cast component form, and there was no objection to me taking some photos to share around.
Knowing the curiosity and interest of the forum in all things camping/vehicular, we have:

The outside part of the floor and walls of the Innovan.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/36.jpg
This is the back, the door in the middle, pull out kitchen unit on the left, shower taps/head space on the right.

Into this is dropped the inner part of the walls floor and the two are sikkaflexed together.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/37.jpg
This gives a moulded gell coat finish to both sides, and forms the internal surfaces of things like cupboards, shelves etc

A side on view of the lower inner shell.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/38.jpg
You can see how the various shapes will be formed for the L side bed, cupboards etc

Eventually the whole thing is put together.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/39.jpg
The roof and windows, interior fittings etc.

A lot of the plumbing and electricals are put in while the shells are still separated, and connected up when the two halves are brought together.
The sparkies and plumbers are not crawling around in small cavities trying to route piping and conduit.

We hope to place an order for ours about December and take delivery a month or so later.
There is heaps of information on the unit on the Innovan (www.innovan.com.au) website for those who would like to know more.
cheers

[austastar]

Hi,
One of the first things I have to do now is get the spare tyre off the tray deck and in under the tray.
I have seen another D130 ute with it mounted there, but I have part of the tray frame work in the space to be occupied by the tyre.
So the tray has to come off, a friend fitted the tray as a semi temp measure, and he had a fork lift to move it.
I had a light weight hoist and a few beams, or I could use the Tirfor, but working alone, I didn't want the tray swinging about on the end of a chain.
A pile of Besser blocks, a plank and the Land Rover bottle jack did the trick in a few hours.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1388.jpg

Now I could get at the offending piece of metal, the 70x50mm cross member that supported the two 50x50mm longitudinal rails on the tray that was designed for some other make of vehicle with mounting points not at all similar to the Defender.
Before I cut the 70mm piece, I inserted a 50mm RHS to hold the loose end, and provide some support to replace the missing metal.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1389.jpg
The red triangles are about where the mounting posts sit under the rail.

With the tray off, it fitted much further in against the front left tray mounting post and another unused mounting point a bit further back.
With a 70mm spacer and a rail to mimic the position of the tray, it looked like it would fit.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1390.jpg

I was not happy with the lumpy other bits that were on the rail. The temptation to cut them off was tempered with concern that I had not a clue what they were there for.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1391.jpg

I put a 20x20mm RHS along under where the tyre would go at the same level as the tallest bump.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1392.jpg
This would take the weight of the tyre evenly across the rubber, and was held either end in existing chassis bolt holes.

The outer edge of the tyre was now supported precariously by the out rigger arm on the chassis. I presume this is used for the body mounting on a Dual Cab or Wagon.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1393.jpg
A length of 20mm RHS was positioned under the tyre to evenly support it, and the top of the tyre eye-balled for fit under the rails. A good position seemed to be near the centre of the wheel, making it a good position to put a nut to match up with a retaining bolt to hold the whole thing in place.

Next day:

The chassis where the tyre will go.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1394.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/18052)

The bracket made up and in position.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/882.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/18053)

The tyre mounted in position.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1395.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/18054)
Now if the tray will fit back over it I will be happy.
There is one more mounting bolt to be fitted, depending on how tight the tyre is under the tray will decide whether I make a tab under the bar or on the side, the thickness of the 3mm strap could be too much.

cheers

[Gav110]

Mate, they look like they were meant for each other - match made in heaven (once you sort the minor stuff !!) Good luck !

[austastar]

Hi,
well the tray is now back on, the spare tyre fits beautifully in underneath, very snug fit. I did have to trim a bit off the handle of the retaining bolt, but that was no drama.
I also fitted a pair of side steps from a wrecked dual cab, Hobart Plating did a nice job on cleaning them up and finishing them with chrome.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/149.jpg
cheers