Warning

[crump]

May be of interest to some.

Brake Cleaner = Phosgene Article (http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm)

[130man]

Hi Crump, thanks for that posting. I would not have thought the effects could have been so severe. I will certainly read the labels closely from now on.Cheers, 130man.

[spudboy]

Thanks for that info. I do a bit of welding, so worth remembering.

[Bigbjorn]

This is why the use of carbon tetrachloride was heavily restricted. In certain circumstances when burnt it made phosgene and it was also found to be quite a bad carcinogenic, particularly liver cancers. Deadly to heavy drinkers. It was widely used as a fire extinguisher, a cleaning fluid, and particularly by dry cleaners as a spot remover. It used to be sloshed around like kerosene as a degreasing fluid in some workshops. Bloody brilliant stuff it was too. Pity about the Roll of Honour.

[justinc]

Horrific stuff, there was also a note made a few years ago about smoking while regassing airconditioners, apparently R12 superheated when drawn through a cigarette can turn into Phosgene gas. Mustard gas straight inbto the lungs:eek:

JC

[Landy110]

This is very real. I worked in a factory years ago where a woman was involved in a parts cleaning process. The solvent gave off fumes which were not considered to be a major concern but she was a heavy smoker. She died of Phosgene poisoning

[discowhite]

i do alot of welding and i would have 1, never known that, thanks steve, and 2 would never have cleaned anything like that with any sort of solvent. stainless steel brush and heat only. there is enough crap coming from any welding process to add anything else:(

cheers phil

[Blknight.aus]

Sorry, this is a case of Darwin just not being thorough enough This guys an idiot.

heres why


Normally I spray a little carb cleaner on the spot Im going to weld

Hrmm thats not the approved cleaner for the job to start with



Where I normally get carb cleaner was sold out so I got a can of brake cleaner and went throug my regular routine

So. He's substitued another unsuitable product to do a job it wasnt ment to do? Bet he didnt even check the MSDS



Just to be on the safe side I even had the shop door open and the exhaust fan on.

Seems to me like he was expecting it to behave differently hes taken some precautions, Just to be safe



When I was able to control myself again I read the cans warning label

Why didnt he do this way back when he was substituting one product for another?



I started researching phosgene (snip) Phosgene gas can be fatal with a dose as little as four parts per million: basically a little puff of smoke. Symptoms can be delayed from six to 48 hours after exposure (snip) If you do survive the long-term effects can be chronic bronchitis and emphsema

Ok so he knows what to expect and now knows it can have delayed onset but check the very next paragraph.



My breathing still was hard a few hours later

Personally If I was breathing hard after exposure to anything other than some exercise or hard work Id be straight onto 000 and telling them to come get me to a hospital.



but I felt a little better so I didn't go to a hospital. The chlorine taste and smell in my nose and mouth were still strong.

do I really need to explain how bad this bit is? Hes just researched it knows it can have delayed onset is having side effects already and STILL hasnt gone to a ospital.



I started coughing and my chest started hurting but I thought that this would pass after a nights sleep

Yeah because a gas thats fatal at nearly insignificant doses you can just sleep off.


Ok Im not going to attack this any further because it should now be blindingly obvious what the problem here is. I'll give you a hint. Its written on the very bottom of the page. Still having a problem finding the problem. Its written between the big XX and the words Iron Magazine.

Thats right American. Land of the country so lawsuit happy that a bag of peanuts has to carry the warning label "This product contains nuts" Its because of their OH+S cover my ass so you cant sue me environment that EVERY product (including a bottle of water and containers of dried compressed air) has an MSDS (thats a Material Safety Data Sheet) and if its classified as dangerous in any way shape or form has a safety label. So lets summate.

Hes using the wrong product for the wrong job.
He hasn't read the warning lable (which there is a very nice picture of at the bottom of the article which specifically states not to expose to heat, flames or welding)
He knows the potential for something to go wrong exists because he's taken some safety precautions
Something goes wrong he starts to feel crook so now he reads the warning label AND he now researches what it all means
After finding out hes been exposed to a poison that is potentially FATAL with DELAYED onset he doesnt go Straight to a hospital.
After the onset of further symptoms He still doesnt goto a hospital.



At least he realises what he did wrong at the end of the article and warns people to read the labels and warnings. Hang on, Isnt that the reason they are there in the first place?

Idiot.

[martinozcmax]

This is why the use of carbon tetrachloride was heavily restricted. In certain circumstances when burnt it made phosgene and it was also found to be quite a bad carcinogenic, particularly liver cancers. Deadly to heavy drinkers. It was widely used as a fire extinguisher, a cleaning fluid, and particularly by dry cleaners as a spot remover. It used to be sloshed around like kerosene as a degreasing fluid in some workshops. Bloody brilliant stuff it was too. Pity about the Roll of Honour.

We used to freely use gallons of the stuff for cleaning everything electrical/electronic during the 70's in the Royal Navy. It was very good and used to just evaporate off your bare hands.

[V8Ian]

You've put my sentiments into words very well Dave. I wonder if he degassed the fuel tank he was welding? The whole story smells off to me.

[procrastination inc]

"Tri-co" was an awesome parts cleaner.

There were several vapour degreasers where I did my apprenticeship. Used to have to climb in the bottom of them in BA to clean them out...

[JDNSW]

We used to freely use gallons of the stuff for cleaning everything electrical/electronic during the 70's in the Royal Navy. It was very good and used to just evaporate off your bare hands.

An aunt of mine spent her career as a metrologist at the National Standards Laboratory, calibrating slip gauges - which she cleaned with carbon tet.

A lifelong non-smoker and non drinker, she died of atypical lung cancer, and also towards the end of her life suffered partial liver failure.

John

[martinozcmax]

An aunt of mine spent her career as a metrologist at the National Standards Laboratory, calibrating slip gauges - which she cleaned with carbon tet.

A lifelong non-smoker and non drinker, she died of atypical lung cancer, and also towards the end of her life suffered partial liver failure.

John

What a shame. She probably had no more idea than me that it could be dangerous. At least we know better now. I can remember freely buying DDT from the local hardware store. We were so uninformed 30-40 years ago. :confused:

[scarry]

Phosgene appears whenever a CFC refrigerant is burnt.There wouldnt be to many techs in our game who havent come across it.

You just have to be careful what you do......

Make sure all the refrigerant is reclaimed,gone,whatever,before you light the oxy.......