New member needs Defender answers

[skoller]

Hi, I have just joined the group because I am seriously considering getting a new 110 wagon and I need to know what I am getting myself into.I previously owned a 3l jackaroo.Mention this to anyone and they start to smirk.Bit like when I mention a 110 could be my next vehicle.I am testing one next week and need to know from owners what they are really like.How good on fuel
How good is the dustproofing
Service and parts costs
How good is the Ford motor and the interior improvments
I think the 110 wagon is the only vehicle that will suit my usage ie solo travel towing a Tvan in remote areas.The Jackaroo has been great but I need a vehicle that will handle the rough going a little better so any comments and views will be appreciated

[Chucaro]

Welcome to the forum mate there are heaps of information here from owners of the new Defender and few of them have done extensive trips on them.
Cheers

[spudboy]

Engine is fantastic. Drives like a 'chipped' TD5. 6-speed is brilliant as 1st is lower than usual and 6th is higher than usual. I get about 11L/100, but others who have more Kms on than me say it gets better once the engine goes past 20,000Km or so.

Dustproofing is better than previous models, but that may not be saying too much!! Actually, I reckon the dustproofing is OK myself.

Generally much quieter than previous models, and comes with a Tacho as standard (OMG!). They must have more soundproofing etc.

Will be less luxurious than your Jackaroo, but it will go for 30 years, unlike any other 4x4 around. You'll get everywhere slower. Not sure what to 0-100 time is but probably 15 seconds.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

From what I read,,,
Like all defenders(and landrovers in general--), its a lifestyle purchase.
Dont expect toyota panel fit,
Dont expect mitsubishi-like ads telling you what a GREAT decision you made,

what you can expect is envy from the rest of us,,
you can expect 30 odd years ownership,,
you can expect remote travel in an off the line production vehicle,,

fuel economy will blow your mind,
cargo ability will also,,
towing capacity ditto,,

service it at Landrover,
take out extended warranty if available,

let us know how the demo goes,,,;):D

[JDNSW]

What you need to appreciate is that the Defender is just about unique. It is probably the only mass produced car today that is essentially assembled by hand, being held together largely by bolts and nuts and rivets, where almost all others are welded together. Further, the body dimensions and styling last had a major revision in 1958, over fifty years ago (some panels are still interchangeable!).

The method of assembly means that fit of panels will not be up to modern standards, and this may or may not result in water or dust leaks. But it does mean that additions and modifications are easy compared to any other model.

In 1958 the dimensions were fixed, but they were set for a working utility vehicle, and fifty years ago people driving these types did not expect much comfort. Furthermore, it was designed around Englishmen who had grown up half starved through the depression and wartime rationing - the average Australian, fifty years later, is much bigger. But if you fit and are comfortable, well and good. The driving position, much more upright than most cars, many drivers find more comfortable, especially on long trips, although it does take some getting used to.

The engine and gearbox are well tested in the Ford Transit, and seem to have a good reputation, although in common with any other modern unit injector designs, problems from contaminated fuel can be ridiculously expensive. Again, in common with other modern diesels (and petrol engines) problems with the engine are likely to be difficult to diagnose without a dealer - and these are few and far between in Australia.

The chassis and the rest of the drive train are well tested, having had progressive development over the last 25 years without major redesign - many parts are either the same or interchangeable. Looking to the future, it is likely that parts to keep it going will still be available long after most competitors are off the road. There are a significant number of people, including myself, using forty year old Landrovers as a daily driver - you can still get parts, largely because they are longlived both in the sense of the individual vehicles tend to last, and the sense that the design remains unchanged over long periods.
Offroad performance is second to none, and on-road performance is comparable to most large four wheel drives except for those with large petrol engines. Fuel economy is better than most. Load carrying capability is better than almost any comparable vehicle, both in terms of volume and mass, although access is not as good as some - but height is just about the best.

Hope this helps,

John

[procrastination inc]

you should work for LR marketing :)

[one_iota]

I made the move to a Defender after owning a Discovery. So probably a similar sort of transition to the one that you are considering making.

For me the change has been easy with the new model having a more car like dash and airconditioning and heating that works. The seats at least for me are firmer than the Disco but more comfortable.

The new motor and gearbox combination makes the Defender easy to drive slowly or at freeway speeds.

My fuel economy at 20000 km is about 11 l/100 km around the city and the engine has loosened up so that now it pulls quite well from low revs.

I don't know what a service costs as I am covered under a corporate fleet deal.

The most recent model will probably have had most of the initial design problems sorted out by now.

But typical of Land Rovers and probably Defenders in particular the quality of the build will vary from vehicle to vehicle...probably due to the archaic method of production described by JD above.

The great thing is that there is a 3 year warranty and when that fails a great bunch of knowledgable people here. :D

[PAT303]

The best thing about LR's is that even though there is less dealer support the private sector is alive and kicking and to a degree know more and do better work than any dealer could hope to do,another point is you don't need a LR dealer as the motor is straight ford so any ford dealer could service it.I serviced tojo's and owned LR's for a long time and LR parts are far more readily available and cheaper than any japanese make,there is enough rumours about LR's to fill a book and all of them are made up by people who have never driven a Land Rover let alone owned one.The only trouble with defenders is that once you have owned one you don't really care for much else. Pat

[austastar]

Not sure what to 0-100 time is but probably 15 seconds.

Hi,
the kinderbeasts reckon it can't be measured with a digital stop watch - some thing to do with the life of button cell batteries used in digital stop watches.
But then they give me heaps about other stuff too.

cheers

[one_iota]

Hi,
the kinderbeasts reckon it can't be measured with a digital stop watch - some thing to do with the life of button cell batteries used in digital stop watches.
But then they give me heaps about other stuff too.

cheers

:Rolling:


It can be measured with a sundial or hour glass

[one_iota]

However for all their faults they are irresistable:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/05/421.jpg

[dullbird]

The best thing about LR's is that even though there is less dealer support the private sector is alive and kicking and to a degree know more and do better work than any dealer could hope to do,another point is you don't need a LR dealer
as the motor is straight ford so any ford dealer could service it.I serviced tojo's and owned LR's for a long time and LR parts are far more readily available and cheaper than any japanese make,there is enough rumours about LR's to fill a book and all of them are made up by people who have never driven a Land Rover let alone owned one.The only trouble with defenders is that once you have owned one you don't really care for much else. Pat

a ford dealer probably could service it but its not a straight ford..yes it is a ford engine but there are land rover made parts on it and its land rover tuned....
Ford gave them the motor and Land rover made and changed things on it to suit.

[Allan]

Once you are over the initial differences that exist in this vehicle compared to other mundane Japanese 4WD you will realize how far they still have to go to even catch up with one of these outstanding vehicles! With all their faults, which fortunately are being slowly addressed, no other vehicle, aside from perhaps a D3, is in the same ball park - IMHO.

Allan

[PAT303]

a ford dealer probably could service it but its not a straight ford..yes it is a ford engine but there are land rover made parts on it and its land rover tuned....
Ford gave them the motor and Land rover made and changed things on it to suit.

It is a straight ford,LR just fiddled with it.There is no difference except for the sump change etc but the engine is ford through and through. Pat

[dullbird]

It is a straight ford,LR just fiddled with it.There is no difference except for the sump change etc but the engine is ford through and through. Pat


so why is the second filter not there?

pretty sure the vac pump is landrovers and there is something else I thnk but cant remember

oh and I'm also pretty sure the ecu programming is landrover too.

I was at a land rover paid for tech day with land rover training.....I'm happy to stand corrected but they had all the data for the engine drive train and everything right down to the build and chassis for the puma the D3 and the RRS...we were there to learn about the newer technologies when introducing driver training to new members with in the club that may own these cars mine was used on the training day.:)

[Allan]

I dont think so:D:D:D:D

Allan

[Grockle]

However for all their faults they are irresistable:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/05/421.jpg
Smart truck 'iota.

[Allan]

Top truck and about as Ford as an Aston DB9

Allan:cool:

[JDNSW]

Top truck and about as Ford as an Aston DB9

Allan:cool:

Actually I think he is talking about a station wagon not a truck - a truck is a goods carrying vehicle, not a passenger vehicle.

But I agree - it is not a Ford, simply uses a Ford engine, same as earlier models used a Pontiac engine and before that a Rover car engine. The only engines specifically designed and built by Landrover for the Defender and its predecessors was the 2 litre diesel and its diesel and petrol descendants - all other engines came from passenger cars or were developed to jointly power the utility Landrover and other more luxurious vehicles.

John

[Scallops]

Your test drive will answer many of your questions.

You will find the Defender much different to anything else you have driven. If you enjoy the test drive - have a close look over all of the vehicle - build quality is variable but always quirky as it is hand made.

If you like the entirety of what you see - go for it. While dealer support is rather thin on the ground, there are specialist land rover workshops and info sources such as this forum to help you out.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[PAT303]

Ford,PSA,LR all had a hand in the TDV6,Ford made-designed the Puma,it comes off the ford line and is shipped to the LR line in a box regardless of what car they are in the engines are ford.The different manufacturers do small changes but if you know about manufacturing you will know that to do changes on a product passed a point it becomes cheaper to start a whole new design.The reason that those makers worked together was cost,no other reason,more manufacturers means more vehicles means economy of scale,in other words the more you make the cheaper they become.Ford played no part in AM,they just owned it.Having worked in the car industry you all would be supprised what engine-drivetrains are in different cars,Nissan to holden,mitsu to Mazda etc.The ECU changes LR made to the Puma are just Program changes,like a Tombie chip in a Td5.If I buy a Puma next year it will be serviced at Ford or I'll stick with Dyno tune,most likely the latter. Pat

[Chops]

Ford,PSA,LR all had a hand in the TDV6,Ford made-designed the Puma,it comes off the ford line and is shipped to the LR line in a box regardless of what car they are in the engines are ford.The different manufacturers do small changes but if you know about manufacturing you will know that to do changes on a product passed a point it becomes cheaper to start a whole new design.The reason that those makers worked together was cost,no other reason,more manufacturers means more vehicles means economy of scale,in other words the more you make the cheaper they become.Ford played no part in AM,they just owned it.Having worked in the car industry you all would be supprised what engine-drivetrains are in different cars,Nissan to holden,mitsu to Mazda etc.The ECU changes LR made to the Puma are just Program changes,like a Tombie chip in a Td5.If I buy a Puma next year it will be serviced at Ford or I'll stick with Dyno tune,most likely the latter. Pat

Your right Pat,,and most of the public have no idea of how many parts are actually "inter-changeable" between different car makers and thier models,,

[dullbird]

Ford,PSA,LR all had a hand in the TDV6,Ford made-designed the Puma,it comes off the ford line and is shipped to the LR line in a box regardless of what car they are in the engines are ford.
The different manufacturers do small changes but if you know about manufacturing you will know that to do changes on a product passed a point it becomes cheaper to start a whole new design.The reason that those makers worked together was cost,no other reason,more manufacturers means more vehicles means economy of scale,in other words the more you make the cheaper they become.Ford played no part in AM,they just owned it.Having worked in the car industry you all would be supprised what engine-drivetrains are in different cars,Nissan to holden,mitsu to Mazda etc.
The ECU changes LR made to the Puma are just Program changes,like a Tombie chip in a Td5.If I buy a Puma next year it will be serviced at Ford or I'll stick with Dyno tune,most likely the latter. Pat

thats right......

All I said is its not a straight ford..it has landrover parts in it tuned by landover and yes ecu mapping specific to landrover. I would not class that as a straight ford drop in like you suggest. but thats just probably differences in interpretation between us both.

if it was a drop in we would all have cruise control...and probably auto's as I believe you can get these on the duratoque which runs the same engine.

Anyway I'm only regertitating what I was told by landrover so I guess if they are wrong then i'm wrong:)

[markz]

I too am considering a purchase of a new defender. I have driven hired Defender on Fraser Island two years ago. I was impressed with what it could do, especially because I had zero 4wd experience prior and have read driving on Fraser could be difficult.
The only thing that's stopping me is the reliability reputation which seems to precede the Defender (or Landrover?). :-(. Many often use a quote "not if but when" it breaks.
I don't mind the aged look at all :-)
I don't know anyone who owns one to confirm this.
Have any of the owners of current Defender experienced any problems that caused them to get stuck in the middle of nowhere? If so can you give details. Do they really all leak oil?
Many say getting a defender is a lifestyle change, what do they mean by that? Will I have to become a mechanic? :-)
Thanks for reading.
Mark

[series3]

I'm 90% sure the 1.5 litre unit in a Mitsubishi Colt is from the Mercedes-Benz A-Class parts-bin. The Chrysler Crossfire is also literally all CLK leftovers under the skin.

[spudboy]

...Have any of the owners of current Defender experienced any problems that caused them to get stuck in the middle of nowhere? If so can you give details. Do they really all leak oil?
Many say getting a defender is a lifestyle change, what do they mean by that? Will I have to become a mechanic? :-)
Thanks for reading.
Mark

I've got a new PUMA 110, and an older TD5, and whilst the TD5 has a few weeps (as oppposed to leaks) the PUMA is 100% dry with not a leak in sight from the engine or the trans.

I think the lifestyle change referred to might be to do with going back to basics, and not having velour seats and 10 stacker DVD players, etc. Living life in a simpler manner.... but I could be wrong :D

You won't have to become a mechanic, at least not for the first 3 years. If you want to though, they are pretty good for the home mechanic to work on. Relatively simple in a world of complexity.

[lardy]

Ford,PSA,LR all had a hand in the TDV6,Ford made-designed the Puma,it comes off the ford line and is shipped to the LR line in a box regardless of what car they are in the engines are ford.The different manufacturers do small changes but if you know about manufacturing you will know that to do changes on a product passed a point it becomes cheaper to start a whole new design.The reason that those makers worked together was cost,no other reason,more manufacturers means more vehicles means economy of scale,in other words the more you make the cheaper they become.Ford played no part in AM,they just owned it.Having worked in the car industry you all would be supprised what engine-drivetrains are in different cars,Nissan to holden,mitsu to Mazda etc.The ECU changes LR made to the Puma are just Program changes,like a Tombie chip in a Td5.If I buy a Puma next year it will be serviced at Ford or I'll stick with Dyno tune,most likely the latter. Pat

pat i think you are dead on, it's been happening in europe for ages fiat peugeot,citreon all in bed together when building their commercial panel vans same lumps same train different badges ford and mazda do it vw and skoda (but they are related after a buy out)

[lardy]

I too am considering a purchase of a new defender. I have driven hired Defender on Fraser Island two years ago. I was impressed with what it could do, especially because I had zero 4wd experience prior and have read driving on Fraser could be difficult.
The only thing that's stopping me is the reliability reputation which seems to precede the Defender (or Landrover?). :-(. Many often use a quote "not if but when" it breaks.
I don't mind the aged look at all :-)
I don't know anyone who owns one to confirm this.
Have any of the owners of current Defender experienced any problems that caused them to get stuck in the middle of nowhere? If so can you give details. Do they really all leak oil?
Many say getting a defender is a lifestyle change, what do they mean by that? Will I have to become a mechanic? :-)
Thanks for reading.
Mark

reliability issues are professed by landcruiser drivers,:p any motor in the world will have issues some landies will some won't. some land cruisers will be pigs some wont luck of the draw imho ;) what's wrong with learning how to maintain your vehicle an understanding of how it works can save you time and money i relish getting my paws mucky

[skoller]

Thanks everyone for the new defender info.Went to the dealer yesterday who I had organised a test drive with but none had yet arrived from where ever they come from.I must have looked disappointed because he said I could test drive it for a couple of days when one arrives.This will be great as I can really see if I can conform to the drivers position and have time to see how to arrange the cargo area to suit my travels.

[frantic]

A few more examples of engine swapping:
any off todays chrysler 300c/ jeep wrangler, comander,cherokee(grand as well) with a diesel is using a merc engine.
Holden colorado= isuzu d-max with a holden aussie petrol v6 and an isuzu tdi. Vl comm 3.0 was a nissan engine used in skyline and later patrol.
ford focus xr5 using ovlov(put it in a mirror) engine , previously every laser was a 323 under the skin!

[Scallops]

.....none had yet arrived from where ever they come from....

That would be heaven. :angel:

[spudfan]

Go for it. I never owned any car but a Landrover. For the last 13 years our everyday mode of transport was a 200tdi 110 station wagon. My wife learned how to drive in it and passed her test in it. She has never driven a "normal" type car. Last year we got a Puma Tdci. It is a really wonderful vehicle. I would say if it will be your first Land Rover it will be a very easy transition as it is so driver friendly. Personally I find the latest incarnation of the beast very user friendly. I never had a problem with Land Rover comfort as that is all I ever drove. However the latest model is so quiet and has tremendous get up and go. Sort of like crossing a rhinoceros with a cheetah. You have all the power and grunt that Defender always had but with a ferocious turn of speed should you need it.Great for overtaking.Regarding reliability etc do not worry. Life itself is uncertain. You could have the most reliable vehicle built and have it written off by a truck while it sat parked outside your house.
My latest mpg was 27.49mpg. This was on our latest holiday trip which is still going on.Max speed 60 mph and lots of sight seeing.
I have other posts here expounding the virtues of the current incarnation of our favourite vehicle, so you can check those out by checking posts by me.
Before I go , when we had series vehicles or even early 90 and 110 models people criticised them for their lack of power, lack of road speed and lack of comfort. People left the Land Rover fold and went somewhere else. This new model gives us all these things and many more besides.Not as simple as models gone before but that is what bureaucrats with pens do.Get to know your service manager in the garage-not the sales rep. The service manager will be your most important contact over the coming years. He should be only too glad that you show an interest. Good luck