Range Rover P38 review

[3toes]

Just picked up the September 2009 edition of Land Rover enthisiast which has a few features on the P38 as it is now 15 years since it was released. Red P38 Range Rover on cover.

Interesting take as are not following the normal in that the main story is written by one of their writers who has owned 3 of the P38 Range Rovers and never had a serious problem. Is questioning where all the other reviewers have obtained their info. I have owned 2 P38 (diesel and current petrol) and have had a similar experience.

Further in is a story on how to converta P38 to coil springs. Interesting that they point out in the article that it would be cheaper to replace the compressor and all 4 air bags than do the coil conversion.

Another magazine also on the shelf which I read on site rather than paying for has a story on the P38 Range Rover. This time on what a used example would be like and what to look out for. Recommendation is to buy a D2 as would be cheaper to run. Not sure where they obtain their running prices from though as for the price they paid per tyre I could buy 3 Pirelli ST. (Paid the extra and bought 4 though.) You might guess which magazine this was as they mentioned the disaster the used example they purchased earlier was.

[rofosixone]

just started to get this mag in lroc (sydney) library ,july and august has our members landies in it ,be interesting to see september mag with that above info .i had coil conversion done but what they fail to mention is once coils done ,you dont spend again to replace .i can go to a paddock and stake a air bag ( than have to buy replacement bag again)or if have a leak ,and compresor works continuously than gets hot and fails (what hapened to me) and then have to buy new one again or repair it .i see they forgot to mention that , and that coils are static ,you can poke them with a stick and get them hot in the desert but still their working , hmmm cant wait for that sep mag to read.

[karlz]

i had coil conversion done but what they fail to mention is once coils done ,you dont spend again to replace .i can go to a paddock and stake a air bag ( than have to buy replacement bag again)or if have a leak ,and compresor works continuously than gets hot and fails (what hapened to me) and then have to buy new one again or repair it .i see they forgot to mention that , and that coils are static ,you can poke them with a stick and get them hot in the desert but still their working , hmmm cant wait for that sep mag to read.

Dont forget, coils also break.
1st hand experience of that too, I was travelling through the congo (africa) and my friend was in a 110 defender, he ended up braking 3 coils, both rear and also a front. He carried 4 spares with him luckily.

Ive replaced air bags on my rangie, its a very easy job, and not costly.
Air bags give a superior ride than coils (especially the arnots), have other benefits such as varying height especially when towing, and higher ground clearance when desired. I wouldnt do a coil conversion, why replace with inferior technology?

[Kalincho]

Oh yes, but with coils you do not have the constant paranoia every time you turn the key!:p

Its all been said before. Each to thier own. Both sides of the argument preach to the converted. Circle of Life.

I converted.

[PaulP38a]

Its all been said before. Each to thier own. Both sides of the argument preach to the converted. Circle of Life.

Well said Kalincho. Whatever floats your boat, or rocks your world.

Me, I like the boat (air springs) :D

[karlz]

Oh yes, but with coils you do not have the constant paranoia every time you turn the key!:p

Its all been said before. Each to thier own. Both sides of the argument preach to the converted. Circle of Life.

I converted.

So my rr lasted 140000 kms before problems started with EAS.
Yes, it gave me the ****s, but after replacing the components I now understand how it all works, and I know Imconvinced air is the way to go.

Dont forget, Landrover have innovated the 4x4 market.

Coils instead of leaf springs
Disc brakes instead of drums
Constant 4wd instead of free wheeling hubs
Comfort instead of discomfort


So, Kalincho, you chose to head in the direction of the toyotas.
Why did you go backward?

[PaulP38a]

So my rr lasted 140000 kms before problems started with EAS.
Yes, it gave me the ****s, but after replacing the components I now understand how it all works, and I know Imconvinced air is the way to go.

Dont forget, Landrover have innovated the 4x4 market.

Coils instead of leaf springs
Disc brakes instead of drums
Constant 4wd instead of free wheeling hubs
Comfort instead of discomfort


So, Kalincho, you chose to head in the direction of the toyotas.
Why did you go backward?

Don't forget to add the "command driving position" to the list of innovations. It sold me more than any other feature when I bought my first RRC.

Karlz, give the guy a break please. We each have our own reasons for the choices we make. While I wouldn't change EAS for coil springs, I respect other's choices to do so. It is their loss. If I wanted a Rangie with coil springs, I'd just buy a Classic or a D2 instead... at least they are easier to get parts for :p

IMHO, the best feature of a P38A is the EAS... and that they look so damn good! Well, not mine... it's pig ugly compared to Remy's :eek:

[rofosixone]

yes karlz can break but were are they made ,china or australia or britan (mine yet to break). i personaly loved air and it is superior than coils but after 6years of ownership and spending 5,000 dollars in repairs on air ,i now look at it like this .next trip whats going too fail /since coils fitted zeroooooooooooooo. but i only look at it on the money side .also read somewere some one asked land rover dealer why defender not air baged ,his answer was same as mine/unrliable . ps today got stuck in bog hole due to being hung up on chasis because of lack of ground clerence as i said do miss air but love money in my pocket , ps got snached out by disco with 85 profile mud tyres and raised coils to my 65 highway profile tyres and std coils /only point to that we went through the same mud bog ,i didnt make it he did .there are other ways may be should put 70 profile mud tyres back on ,naaaaaaaaaaaaa love my high speed grip and cournering ,as someone above said ( paul p38a,i agree with him /and kalincho too ) each to there own ,lov em but to costly to maintain ,cheers.

[Kalincho]

Because my wife is Japanese and she said the RR was too English! :o

I had just done the motor swap and thought it was all working well, The EAS didn't have a problem up until then. Swapped the bags over, thinking all was peachy, the next day the RR lent badly to the right, could lift it up and it would level it self out, turned out to be the EAS line hose into the the top of the bag was leaking, though would hold under pressure.

Weighed up all of the options and opinions and budget (this is after persuading my wife to fix the RR.) and the decision was made to give her the chop.

Just the thought of it going into a hard fault mode, a sensor being out of whack, an air spring leaking, a compressor failing, etc and my wife being in the car when it happens was all too much stress to take!
(She was in the car when we were 400+km from home and the motor overheated with a cracked liner.):wasntme:

Just for the record, every LR mech in Perth that I have spoken with has recommend the castration.

One even said :

" EAS is only good for city driving, I wouldn't drive to Mandurah with it"

I personally did like having it and I am in agreement with all of the for statements. It was a hard decision to make, but thus far one that with a gentle soft beep when I turn the key, I am prepared to live with.

P.s. I still have four brand new Airbagman bellows sitting in a cupboard! :angel:

[rofosixone]

now you know why i am single /so i can afford range rover and the petrol /and no one to nag me about it ,he he he .

[willem]

Just for the record, every LR mech in Perth that I have spoken with has recommend the castration.

One even said :

" EAS is only good for city driving, I wouldn't drive to Mandurah with it"




The air suspension/ coils debate will go on for quite a while yet. I agree with Paul - to each his own. I wouldn't go back to coils after experiencing air, but others with other priorities think differently.

But the mechanic who made the above statement is a bigoted dill. He effectively displays his own narrow-mindedness. Manduarah is 60kms down the freeway from Perth, for goodness sake!

There are pros and cons to air suspension, but it is here to stay and it is being further refined with every new model, and the reliability will increase as time goes on. There was a time when electric starters were viewed with suspicion, and now EVERY car has one! They do break down from time to time, but you hear of no clamour to take them out and replace them with crank handles!

In the sixties heaters were not a standard fitting. Now every car has one. And even the occasional O ring leaking and its replacement drama wouldn't convince us to go without.

There will come a time when air suspension is seen as normal and the problems it brings will be seen as just a normal part of owning a car. So it has always been, and people eventually come to accept real progress (the Amish are the exception here!). People's needs, priorities and perceptions change at different rates and that is perfectly normal. That is why debates like this happen.

Willem

[DeanoH]

Because my wife is Japanese and she said the RR was too English! :o

Weighed up all of the options and opinions and budget (this is after persuading my wife to fix the RR.) and the decision was made to give her the chop.



You're a hard man Kalincho, giving the missus the bullet just cos she doesn't like the Rangey.

Spoke to the LR mechanic in Alice Springs. his view of the P38 was 'never leave the bitumen, don't drive more than 200 Km from home and make sure the RAC priority assist is paid up'. And he's a LR devotee. !!

P.S. Are you looking for a home for the airbags ?

Deano

[rofosixone]

p38"s never leave the bitumen ah ,he hasent seen my photobucket pics .by the way, he might say p38"s suck but nissan 4.2 diesels swallow (water).

[M.Allison]

p38"s never leave the bitumen ah ,he hasent seen my photobucket pics .


Lol same here!

mike

[eb220]

Anyone know if this magazine is sold here in Aus?

Cheers

Chris

[Grumbles]

It is but can be hard to get. Very few newsagents seem to stock it.

[rofosixone]

i had same problem trying to buy it in syd metro area ,same answer as above. only way to be certain to get it is by subscribeing to it via its australian representative who is patrick sutcliffe which i did for lroc library. if you get it via patrick you save around 40% off the newsagents price and its delivered to your ad. contact him on patrick.sutcliffe@landroverenthusiast.com or (02 ) 9489 3756 (ah) or po box 1096 wahroonga nsw 2076 australia. or if lroc syd club member ,$5 deposit to take out ,up to 3 months to read and look at ,return it and get your $5 back so really its a free bie at the end when returned ,and once its older than 3 months no deposit required anymore to take out but still 3 months limit applies.

[Zekkus]

Those of you who've converted to coil springs, why wouldn't put in aftermarket air bags to have the best of both worlds?

This was the first thing I did to my Nissan GQ Patrol way back in the 80's. These bags sit inside the coil springs and assist in ride height and towing adjustment.

I would have thought this a no-brainer .. please don't flame me .. it's only my second post! ;)

Cheers, Zekkus

[rofosixone]

in answer to above ,its called i dont want to spend any more money.std p38a is great but when gets old and worn out and starts to fail it costs to fix, just dont want to do it anymore.now since put coils have not seen graeme coopers workshop since cooma 60th /i rest my case.(other wise air is best on and off road /unless water hits computor under seat, than coils best.)

[M.Allison]

i have coils! they are great! im about to lift it again....just as soon as i figure out what i need to extend/change...now im not going to pay out on anyone that have bags, just for my 4wding i needed something more reliable i take mine on some pretty hairy stuff and i have pierced one before, probably due to being an old bag but they are really expensive to replace where as the worst i have done now since putting the coils in is snap an ABS line in half...dont ask me how i dont know.

i find the ride on coils is actually the same as bags provided you have the right shocks...

how ever i did notice that springs are much more harsh when you bottom out as apposed to airbags and when im towing it no longer levels out so i find my trailer sits on a massive angle. but i can live with that

thats my two cents

Mike

[rofosixone]

i agree 100% on above (mikes coments) about coil conversion (cheap long term alternative to constant wearing air parts /or repairs) .as zekkus says can put red poly bag in coil and add air if towing to keep back level ,seen it on lotz a landies rangie ,dianna told me all about them but as mike says only time back goes down is when towing my camper (which is not much these days,geting lazy ,sleep at back when camping these days ,no set up time ).its not to bad as mike says and could get poly bags for rear coils but again ,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ happy as is .did have air shocks on other car and when pumped up ,and car is empty went around a high speed courner and almost went into 4 wheel drift into guard rail due to air shocks changeing balence /thats why dont want to put polys just in case drive like bond again around courners and happens again ,just leave std no surprises no drifting, now just leans instead but still grips like on railway tracks on road .

[Hoges]

Quote " Oh yes, but with coils you do not have the constant paranoia every time you turn the key"

Hsssss.... paranoia....? what paranoia.... will the fuel pump start? are the doors properly shut? can I smell coolant... what's that book symbol on the HEVAC? :eek::mad::(;):D

Treat the o-rings in the valve block and airbags as serviceable items...replace them every couple of years...it's cheap insurance. With the PDA version of EAS Unlock an old PDA running MS Pocket PC ver 4.2 with a serial cable connected to an OBDII plug ($10) and stored in the glovebox... all complete... with the compressor properly mounted it's barely audible when operating...

[PaulP38a]

Well said Hoges.

The only thing I'm truly paranoid about in a P38A (other than deep water) is the temperature gauge... I watch it almost as often as the speedo.

Fair enough to you blokes who have converted to springs though. I can see merit in a simpler suspension system for offroad work. Still reckon you should've just bought a Disco II instead ;)

Cheers, Paul.

[rofosixone]

as said before,if you know to fix by your self /go for it ,i dont.if you know how to play with computors /go for it,i dont.if you earn $100,000 a year/go for it ,i dont.as for valve block costs over thousand and some new ones dont even work /go for it ,i dont want it.serviceable items like 4x air bags and compressor failed me cost me $2,600 fitted/go for it .dont have that problem any more .as klink would say hogannnnnnnnnnnnnn.not argrueing ,air is best but $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.ps paulie dont like discos /girls car .i want a mans car /range rover .(you watch going to get shot by disco owners at next club meeting) and in my water encounter ,i won with a little bit of help.

[PaulP38a]

ps paulie dont like discos /girls car .i want a mans car /range rover .(you watch going to get shot by disco owners at next club meeting)
yep, pretty safe bet that the Disco owners are gonna hunt you down. Hope you're in your V8 Rangie as their TD5's won't have a hope of catching you (on the road) ;)

I wouldn't call a Disco a girl's car... that moniker is reserved for the Freelander :o My wife's words not mine. I tried to buy her a P38A or a Disco but she wanted the Freelander 'coz "it's more of a woman's car".

To all the Freebie owners about to lynch me... I used to own/drive a Freelander rag-top and really liked it, I just like my Rangie better :D and I still get to enjoy driving my Wife's Freebie TD4.

[rofosixone]

accually quote came from my dad ,thought it was funny.by the way arnt we supose to hate jap 4x4s,i do.

[M.Allison]

Paul my car out runs discos 4x4ing :D it even outruns the older rangie ;) and as for the disco II well i like my 4.6L with my rear traction control :)

Hodges - As for maintenance on the airbags yeah im sure if you spend a little money here and there and maintain it, it can be a great system i agree with you BUT no matter how much money you spend on maintaining the airbags you will still have bag failures and you will still have lines being split you will still have electrical faults and you will still have to replace a compressor....eventually.

those are some of the problems i faced so i decided a cheap way (when the economy was bad) was in import an arnotts spring conversion.

In my eyes for serious off road use i would elect going coils.

For on road and a little bit of off road stuff (light). I would probably stay with airbags as your not stressing them so they will last a long time.

Mike

[PaulP38a]

accually quote came from my dad ,thought it was funny.by the way arnt we supose to hate jap 4x4s,i do.

I guess the term "Disco Mum" is kinda appropriate considering about half of the Disco's I see are being driven by members of the fairer sex with children on board.

I don't hate Jap 4x4's, just don't want to drive one as I already have a RANGE ROVER :D:D:D

Suzuki Sierra's are a lot of fun though.

[andrew e]

Disco owners are just lower class citizens, who cant afford a rangie.

[dobbo]

Disco owners are just lower class citizens, who cant afford a rangie.


And cup holders are there for those who cannot afford the time to stop for a cup of tea

[Aussie]

When I purchased my RR I knew **** all about EAS. I took the time to learn how it works and I must say its a piece of ****.

I can replace an airbag in under 30 mins. I can replace the compressor and reset the codes in under 30 mins. I also find the parts for a P38 very cheap.

airbag front $180
airbag rear $160
compressor $500 (I now have a spare) and the reason my Comp blew is because I was too lazy too replace the front leaking Airbag.

Not bad for an item that needs changing every 10 years approx (airbags). I can also understand the argument for coils and have no issues with ppl doing the conversion.

Its all about personel choice. I absolutley love the ride comfort with EAS and I've taken the time too understand it. I've also taken the time too understand the P38 and it saddens me too hear of the reputation these vehicles have. I drive mine too work every day 80km round trip and it never misses a beat. Its taken me all over Victoria Its like all vehicles, dont maintain it and it will break.

For me the P38 has the best of both worlds. Awesome on the road and for the type of offroading I want too do its fantastic. If I wanna bush bash hard and scratch some paint then I'll drag out my old series 2A (and get a headache driving it..LOL noisey ol bugger it is) but I love it too.

The only thing that makes me angry is tools that have never owed a RR and somehow seem to think they are experts and constantly bash the P38 ( I think its maybe a small willy syndrome) I'm not saying their perfect but what they fail to understand is simply put by Jeremy Clarkson "Its how it makes you feel when your driving it - the X factor".

[willem]

And cup holders are there for those who cannot afford the time to stop for a cup of tea

P38s don't have cupholders anyway ... but I fitted three to mine - thanks, Ron - and I love 'em!

Willem

[Aussie]

We who have EAS dont need to stop unlike coil heads who need to rest their bums :p:p:p

[dobbo]

P38s don't have cupholders anyway ... but I fitted three to mine - thanks, Ron - and I love 'em!

Willem


I am well aware of that, used to pee me off having to hold my coffee cup until we stopped. Didn't want to put the empties on the carpet, back then a P38 was worth money.

[M.Allison]

P38s don't have cupholders anyway ... but I fitted three to mine - thanks, Ron - and I love 'em!

Willem


Mine has cup holders?....i think under the swivel center console lid....it also has rubber to hold them in? am i using something else as a cup holder haha

mike

[rofosixone]

dont upset disco 2 owners andrew e ,one day u might need one to snach u out of a mud bog (unless raised coils and mud tyres)/thanks dino .gezzzzzzz aussie you got 10 years out of a air bag ,unlike you i do hard core and easy lroc club trips in a p38a not 2a and mine dont last no were near that .if you know how to fixem which i dont, go to photobucket site /type p38a in search box /the first pic you see (that white one that looks like ronalds one ) has been there for a month at the workshop on its bump stops ,hurry your needed there with your expertise .ps i got s/h cup holder of a HSE at lvs at silverdale for $30 ,and put it in myself (i am proud of that)and it swings like mikes one above / best $30 i spent ,love ittttttttttttttttt.

[Scouse]

Mine has cup holders?....i think under the swivel center console lidI think this was a HSE feature only, at least in the earlier models.
Very handy but a bit on the small side & they get knocked by your elbows if they're tall cups.

[M.Allison]

I think this was a HSE feature only, at least in the earlier models.
Very handy but a bit on the small side & they get knocked by your elbows if they're tall cups.

haha well im glad that i am using the right ones :D

mike

[andrew e]

Earlier p38 hses had the indentations to sort of hold your cup upright, but in the later (bosch)ones they got them in the rear seat armrest (exactly the same as a d2) and in the leather covered center console lid - with rubber. I have had customers spill the coffee on the window switches, and on the becm with bad outcomes. Yes they need more cup holders.

However i am not a range rover driver, i am a county driver I can hold a beverage and drive at the same time.


Andy

[dobbo]

Earlier p38 hses had the indentations to sort of hold your cup upright, but in the later (bosch)ones they got them in the rear seat armrest (exactly the same as a d2) and in the leather covered center console lid - with rubber. I have had customers spill the coffee on the window switches, and on the becm with bad outcomes. Yes they need more cup holders.

However i am not a range rover driver, i am a county driver I can hold a beverage and drive at the same time.


Andy


The other avantage we have in a County is we can order a flat white and froth up the milk with a couple of revs of the diesel.

[Aussie]

The other avantage we have in a County is we can order a flat white and froth up the milk with a couple of revs of the diesel.

LOL That made me laugh. Brings back memories of doing many miles in my 2A. That thing used to rattle my fillings it would have made a great froth too

[andrew e]

The other avantage we have in a County is we can order a flat white and froth up the milk with a couple of revs of the diesel.

and with a p38 rangie the frothy milk is in the sump..... ouch, i shouldnt be saying this to my loyal customers:D

[DT-P38]

When I purchased my RR I knew **** all about EAS. I took the time to learn how it works and I must say its a piece of ****.

I can replace an airbag in under 30 mins. I can replace the compressor and reset the codes in under 30 mins. I also find the parts for a P38 very cheap.

airbag front $180
airbag rear $160
compressor $500 (I now have a spare) and the reason my Comp blew is because I was too lazy too replace the front leaking Airbag.

Not bad for an item that needs changing every 10 years approx (airbags). I can also understand the argument for coils and have no issues with ppl doing the conversion.

Its all about personel choice. I absolutley love the ride comfort with EAS and I've taken the time too understand it. I've also taken the time too understand the P38 and it saddens me too hear of the reputation these vehicles have. I drive mine too work every day 80km round trip and it never misses a beat. Its taken me all over Victoria Its like all vehicles, dont maintain it and it will break.

For me the P38 has the best of both worlds. Awesome on the road and for the type of offroading I want too do its fantastic. If I wanna bush bash hard and scratch some paint then I'll drag out my old series 2A (and get a headache driving it..LOL noisey ol bugger it is) but I love it too.

The only thing that makes me angry is tools that have never owed a RR and somehow seem to think they are experts and constantly bash the P38 ( I think its maybe a small willy syndrome) I'm not saying their perfect but what they fail to understand is simply put by Jeremy Clarkson "Its how it makes you feel when your driving it - the X factor".

Agree!