Child Restraints

[Lightweight]

When I picked up my Defender the first task I undertook was to fit legal child restraints to the 110.

As many posts and questions here have pointed out, this is not an easy task. With a minefield of different state regulations, laws and governance. From the factory there are no ADR approved anchor points in the wagon section of a 110. The tie down points are no good, drilling a hole in the aluminum and adding your own point will not suffice the regulations.

I first visited a regulated child inspection officer at the local Hospital, although very helpful, had no solution other than he knew he couldn't complete the task. It was a good thing to see that the regulations work and it WAS NOT a task someone was going to do to make money over safety.

He pointed me to another installer who had done CRAB's and Posts to have a look. He was puzzled at first, the first option was a CRAB, but couldn't see how it could fit, without and external plate as the correct measurements from the back of the seat, would have placed the bar on a panel that would have needed a bolt through to the outside panel. Not an option here.

After a phone call to "the guy who passes the engineering for RTA" which i think was "Mobility Engineering", we had a solution.

My preference was function over form for this install, the aesthetics where not the driving factor. I wanted a legal install that was not on the floor of the wagon, rather on the wheel arches so i could still install a drawer system. After a few calls and a bit of work, I had a post installed at the rear of the cabin (to meet all of the requirements), and a certificate to show its worth.

Now my two year old can travel with a view!

18030 18031

[Scouse]

Nice result :).

I'm sure a lot of other Defender owners would like some contact info for Mobilty Engineering if you have it handy.

[Lightweight]

These guys provided the advice....

Mobility Engineering - Mobility Engineering (http://www.mobilityengineering.com.au/)

These guys did the install...

Welcome to Altapac (http://www.altapac.com/)

[Mellow Yellow]

G'Day Lightweight,

I just bought the Yellow Peril from a guy in Canberra who had child restraint anchorages fitted by Canberra Motor Works in April 2005. He also had a Milford cargo barrier fitted but the anchorages are completely independent of the barrier.

It's a very functional fitting but still quite neat and in keeping with the vehicle. Came with an engineering certificate which the NSW RTA accepted yesterday without blinking an eye.

I'll post photos tomorrow when I've got a bit more time.

Mellow Yellow.

[abaddonxi]

Added to the child restraint hall of fame.;)

[wisey110]

Nice one. I'm getting a 7 seater with 2 points added think on the floor(don't have it yet so i'm un sure). Its getting done somewherer down Brisbane so when i get it i'll find out where it was done and what it looks like for people up in QLD.

[Mellow Yellow]

Here's a few photos of the child restraint anchorages in the Yellow Peril.

[JonoW]

Hi Lightweight. I am currently looking at buying a Defender 90 (MY09) and am up against the same challenge you were in terms of finding a safe and certified (in that order) solution to the absence of anchor points from the factory. Whilst the 110 seems to present some hurdles, it seems that those presented by the 90 are possibly even harder as there is no bench seat. The vehicle is 4 seats, with the rear two being folding seats. I guess from the perspective of an anchor point location, this difference probably is immaterial.

Do you have any suggestions? I was considering calling your guy at "Mobility Engineering". You don't recall his name do you?

Cheers.

Jono

[abaddonxi]

Jono

Mobility Engineering are in Hornsby NSW.

Check this thread for more details and state by state contacts -
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/good-oil/57559-child-restraint-anchor-points-kid-baby-seats-capsule-booster-crab-creb-bar.html

Cheers
Simon

[frantic]

I used this combination of threads from the good oil(thanks to AULRO for organizing it!:D) which led me to get a horizontal bar fitted that runs parrallel to the bench seat and can have fitted up to 3 child seat bolts, this means that it does not eat into load area. The reason that you DONT have to have an external plate is that it is the rim of the ute that you are bolting to(its good enough to tie down heavy loads so will support littlies) and dont need one of those crab bars sticking up out of the floor.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/good-oil/57559-child-restraint-anchor-points-kid-baby-seats-capsule-booster-crab-creb-bar.html

My set up is Identical to MOJO in this tread without the cargo barrier and drawers:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/98681-child-booster-seat-defender-anchor-points-needed.html

[5teve]

i find this very strange that on the disco the child restraints are just a peice of 6mm bar in the back of the seats. The defender has shared anchor points for the seatbelts in the floor, therefore why cant a similar arrangement be used for the child restraints? If the belt anchor points are stong enough for adults then why arent they (or similar) suitable for child anchor points?

Thanks

Steve

[abaddonxi]

i find this very strange that on the disco the child restraints are just a peice of 6mm bar in the back of the seats. The defender has shared anchor points for the seatbelts in the floor, therefore why cant a similar arrangement be used for the child restraints? If the belt anchor points are stong enough for adults then why arent they (or similar) suitable for child anchor points?

Thanks

Steve

One reason is that ADR specifies anchor points be no lower than 100mm from top back of the seat. I think this applies to aftermarket installations, since there is no guarantee of the strength of the seat-back when used as a pivot point for a child restraint strap.

Anchor points when provided by the manufacturer are all over the place, but I assume that they have to engineer them during manufacture.

[5teve]

i guess that makes sense..

I was just wondering (and its obviously not possible aftermarket due to ADR's) about piggybacking a bracket on the top of the seatbelt anchors to hook into with the child seat restraint..

oh well... just a thought :)

Steve

[Lightweight]

Hi Johno,

I don't recall the guys name, but a company called "Altapac" at Kotara, did a great job sourcing and installing the post. They found out all of the regulations and made the calls to source the parts. They where very helpful!

[ScottW]

Possibly a dumb question, but was there no 'genuine' option for a child restraint in a defender? I have one in the county. It is even shown in the owners manual.
Or are they just made from unobtanium?

[moorey]

I bolted a strip of 8mm steel along the back of my 130 where the top and body of the cab join. My local licenced fitter had no hesitation in being satisfied with the strength. Cheap, feasable and seeming kosher. I can't imagine he would fit to something he thought would be a problem, although I can't vouch for it being a 'legal' option:angel:

[stace70]

my puma 130 is currently at altapac getting child restraints in....will post pic when I get it

[Michael2]

If a cargo barrier is an approved design that can handle x amount of deceleration force, then can a cargo barrier be used as the anchor point?

My cargo barrier has a mesh top, but a solid aluminium chequerplate bottom mounted to the frame. Victorian engineers say I can put a bolt through the floor with a large washer (specified size, but I can't remember exact size now). So if I can bolt the restraint to the floor through thin alloy, then it must be infinitely safer to bolt it through the cargo barriers thicker plate, with the force now spread across that plate and against 4 or 6 mounting points.

Even if my cargo barrier were all mesh, I could use a wide plate to spread the force across the full length of the cargo barrier, but rely on the barriers mounting points.

I've seen the flimsy factory mountings on the back seats of Holden Zafiras, and I doubt that they would be half as secure as a cargo barrier.

[Ranga]

If a cargo barrier is an approved design that can handle x amount of deceleration force, then can a cargo barrier be used as the anchor point?

My cargo barrier has a mesh top, but a solid aluminium chequerplate bottom mounted to the frame. Victorian engineers say I can put a bolt through the floor with a large washer (specified size, but I can't remember exact size now). So if I can bolt the restraint to the floor through thin alloy, then it must be infinitely safer to bolt it through the cargo barriers thicker plate, with the force now spread across that plate and against 4 or 6 mounting points.

Even if my cargo barrier were all mesh, I could use a wide plate to spread the force across the full length of the cargo barrier, but rely on the barriers mounting points.

I've seen the flimsy factory mountings on the back seats of Holden Zafiras, and I doubt that they would be half as secure as a cargo barrier.

Check my solution here http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/83124-finally-got-defender-3.html#post1075403. This has been approved by an engineer, despite the anchor point being more than 100mm below the top of the seat.

[Blknight.aus]

then it must be infinitely safer to bolt it through the cargo barriers thicker plate, with the force now spread across that plate and against 4 or 6 mounting points.

Even if my cargo barrier were all mesh, I could use a wide plate to spread the force across the full length of the cargo barrier, but rely on the barriers mounting points.

I've seen the flimsy factory mountings on the back seats of Holden Zafiras, and I doubt that they would be half as secure as a cargo barrier.


Not quite... from an engineers standpoint the barrier is designed to deform under heavy impact so attaching an anchor point to them is a no-no as the anchor point might shift during an accident. It doesnt matter how thick the plate is your anchoring the seat to, if the frame moves the plate moves and belt tension is lost or exceeded. In some cases you might even degrade the performance of the cargo barrier by plating over the mesh.

Now that's not true of all cargo barriers, if you have one of the ones that doesnt have the check straps and bolts directly to "non deforming" anchor points you might get it past an engineer.

Part of the reason that child seats have additional securin straps is because in the event of an accident the seat mountings (particulalry the ones that hold up the back of a back seat) dont absorb the inertial energy that the occupant imparts, most of that energy is absorbed by the seat belts leaving the seat mounts to deal with the weight of the seat.