Burnt out Headlight switch - Again!

[Sleepy]

110,000km on my 4yo Defender.

Last night, lost all headlights :eek:- Again.:mad: (Replaced the headlight switch about 18months ago)

I know the symptoms - and is the headlight switch burnt out. Whilst I have driving lights (through a relay) , it looks like I will have to upgrade to headlight relays. Definite weak point Mr Land Rover:mad:.

I did a search but couldn't find it - Who was it selling the headlight upgrade kits/relays around here?

[weeds]

drivesafe........tim is his name from traxide

index7 (http://www.traxide.com.au/)

[Bearman]

110,000km on my 4yo Defender.

Last night, lost all headlights :eek:- Again.:mad: (Replaced the headlight switch about 18months ago)

I know the symptoms - and is the headlight switch burnt out. Whilst I have driving lights (through a relay) , it looks like I will have to upgrade to headlight relays. Definite weak point Mr Land Rover:mad:.

I did a search but couldn't find it - Who was it selling the headlight upgrade kits/relays around here?

You definitely need to have all headlights going through relays. I burned out 2 headlight switches in 2 years and after fitting relays to everything 10yrs ago no more burned out light switches. You can do this yourself very cheaply with a couple of twin relays and some heavy wire...........Brian

[incisor]

or from DavesITshop (http://www.davesitshop.com/davesitshop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=25)

[spudboy]

I've tried to solve this by going HID. They are only 35W on high beam.

Time will tell if this is a good idea!

[mark2]

Relays are defintily the go - should be the first thing anybody does to a Defender. Without them, its not 'if' but 'when' the switch will fail - usually on a dark night. An added benefit is brighter lights due to less voltage drop.

The 'New Era' brand of relay are worth looking out for. Its not a hard thing to do yourself but the kit makes it easier.

[mark2]

I've tried to solve this by going HID. They are only 35W on high beam.

Time will tell if this is a good idea!

I bought a cheap chinese H4 sliding hi/lo HID kit a while back which came with a relay and loom kit - which was handy in the GQ Patrol as it also doesnt use headlight relays:mad: Cleaning switch contacts used to be a regular job.

The current draw for HID's spikes at startup - it can be over 10 amps but quickly goes back to 3 -4. I'd guess that you'd still be better off switchwise than someone using incandescants but who knows......

[Mellow Yellow]

The Traxide wiring loom upgrade kits are available from the (www.aulro.com) "Shop" - see the top of the the blog between "Markets" and "Chat".

[JDNSW]

Switching the headlights without a relay works reasonably well - provided you do not increase the wattage of the bulbs. And the problem is, the damage may have been done by a previous owner, and not shown up yet.

Before increasing the wattage of the lights you should fit relays. While the standing current of HID lights is lower than the original bulbs, they have a high startup current, and should also operate through a relay.

Damage is likely to both the main headlight switch and to the multifunction switch. The damage can be either burning of the contacts, or heating of them enough to melt the plastic they are mounted to. In the first case the switch can be rescued by cleaning the contacts, but in the second case repair is not usually feasible.

As indicated, fitting relays is pretty easy, easier with a kit.

John

John

[Sleepy]

Thanks all.
Yes, two switches in two years is two too many.:D (And I am using standard headlights!)

What a crazy day - I drove the disco and lost my parking/dashboard lights. Mustn't be my week.

Time for a new thread.

[one_iota]

And the added benefit of the Traxide wiring upgrade is that the lights will be brighter (It certainly made a measurable difference on my Disco and on the Defender).

[Jock The Rock]

Hey mate

When you get your Traxide Kit post up a pic of where you mounted your relays in this thread

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/79157-traxide-relay-mounting-points.html

I changed my wiring a bit, rather than running the main feed back to the battery I hooked straight onto the alternator. I'm not sure what side the alternator is on a Td5 but thats an option

Most auto sparkies would know that the longer the cable the less voltage you get. Instead of mine being close to 2m long it's only about 40cm :)

[justinc]

Hey mate

When you get your Traxide Kit post up a pic of where you mounted your relays in this thread

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/79157-traxide-relay-mounting-points.html

I changed my wiring a bit, rather than running the main feed back to the battery I hooked straight onto the alternator. I'm not sure what side the alternator is on a Td5 but thats an option

Most auto sparkies would know that the longer the cable the less voltage you get. Instead of mine being close to 2m long it's only about 40cm :)

Ah yes, BUT Tim supplies some pretty heavy gauge wiring to the battery, It has a lot to do with cross sectional area of the wire too, not just its length.
I have 14,2 volts available at my trailer hitch anderson plug, the gauge of wire supplied with the SC80 means I have no noticeable volt drop from the alternator to the trailer:) Even through the anderson plug I haven't lost anything. Soldered joints are also a must.

JC

[CraigE]

Yep. I have had mine fitted for a while now and no more melted switch blocks.
Thanks Tim.:thumbsup:
The kit makes it so easy.
The annoying thing is the switch will be more expensive than the kit and now you need both.:(

[101 Ron]

After burning out the original switch and getting a price of about 220 dollars for a replacement .........I decided to fit a different type of switch and found a aftermarket type push/pull switch would fit for 15 dollars.
This worked with 135watt globes for four years and burnt that switch out too.
It was replaced with a similar type of switch and this time two Bosch cube type relays fitted just near the switch behind the plastic cover for the steering columb.
The bosch relays cost about ten dollars each.
No more problems to date.
My defender is a 1994 model and more than ten years later they were still selling defenders with the same well known and possibly dangerous problem.
No wonder toyota out sell the landrovers by huge amounts.

[JDNSW]

......
My defender is a 1994 model and more than ten years later they were still selling defenders with the same well known and possibly dangerous problem.
No wonder toyota out sell the landrovers by huge amounts.

I do think that headlight relays are a worthwhile improvement, which as you say is well overdue. But in reality the switches do not give trouble unless higher wattage bulbs are fitted, so it is hard to blame the manufacturers, and relays are not beyond reproach either - I have had a similar relay to the one you mention (Bosch) fail on my driving lights while running 55w bulbs! But at least the relay is cheap and readily available compared to the switch.

My view (although I prefer relay operated lights - NOT with the relay in the dash) is that the switch design is substandard - the fact that they commonly fail with only doubling of headlight current shows they are operating too close to their limit, particularly in hot and dusty conditions. It is possible that the real problem is inadequate testing in hot and dusty conditions - are these failures common in their major markets?

John

[CraigE]

I do think that headlight relays are a worthwhile improvement, which as you say is well overdue. But in reality the switches do not give trouble unless higher wattage bulbs are fitted, so it is hard to blame the manufacturers, and relays are not beyond reproach either - I have had a similar relay to the one you mention (Bosch) fail on my driving lights while running 55w bulbs! But at least the relay is cheap and readily available compared to the switch.

My view (although I prefer relay operated lights - NOT with the relay in the dash) is that the switch design is substandard - the fact that they commonly fail with only doubling of headlight current shows they are operating too close to their limit, particularly in hot and dusty conditions. It is possible that the real problem is inadequate testing in hot and dusty conditions - are these failures common in their major markets?

John
John,
I am not sure that is entirely correct. Mine failed with standard bulbs as have a few others I know of. Even with the Phillips low wattage globes (I changed to after the first melted) it was still getting very hot after driving for more than 1/2 an hour with lights on after I put the new switch in.
Since fitting the relays does not even get warm.

[JDNSW]

John,
I am not sure that is entirely correct. Mine failed with standard bulbs as have a few others I know of. Even with the Phillips low wattage globes (I changed to after the first melted) it was still getting very hot after driving for more than 1/2 an hour with lights on after I put the new switch in.
Since fitting the relays does not even get warm.

I am sure there are cases where they have failed with low wattage bulbs, probably because of poor quality control by Lucas (and their heirs), but for example mine lasted nearly twenty years before failing and convincing me to fit relays. I suspect the "open" design of the switch plus dust may be a factor, not seen in their primary market. Of course, with only the relay current the switch will not get hot and burn, even if the contacts are dusty.

There is no reason other than poor design or manufacture why the switches should fail regardless of bulb wattage - switches have been handling this sort of current without relays for over a hundred years. If they are fitting switches without relays they should stand up to it in all conditions, although you can't expect them to stand higher wattages. (But there are other good reasons for having relays to avoid the voltage drop from the amount of wire between the alternator and the bulb.)

John

[101 Ron]

I also own a 1960 model CJ Jeep with a old fashion push/pull head light switch in the dash board and foot dipper switch which has no relays and runs 135 watt light the same as my defender.
That switch has been operating for 49 years without trouble and the last 20 years with extra current going though it.
Jeep has no doors and the thing gets filled with dust and dirt.
Only the dipper switch has failed once or twice due it filling up with water after creek crossings up over the floor of the vehicle.
Jeep is a cheap production vehicle.
If jeep can do it why cant Landrover.?
The relays fitted to my defender up under the plastic cover for the steering wheel was done that way because the wiring itself is up to the job of running the head lights without any hassles.
Yes relays and a loom down at the front of the vehicle is better, but after looking at the wiring itself I couldnt see the need for the extra trouble and I have had no problems to date.
The silly standard switch is the problem with or with out lighting up grades.

[JDNSW]

......
If jeep can do it why cant Landrover.?
........

They don't use Lucas switches.

John

[Sleepy]

Second one in 4.5 years. Standard Bulbs. Bugger all dusty driving.

My conclusion is it is a crap switch. As someone said above, a better 3 positions switch may be the answer - with relay ;)

Looks like I'm selling the 90 anyway so will leave it for the new owner to decide.:angel: