What's Australian made and what's not?

[drivesafe]

This is a spinoff from the anthem thread, so what’s really Australian made these days.

I use as much Australian content as possible in the gear I make but as there is a limit to what is made here, I have to use ( and sell ) a lot of foreign products, but this is just one field.

What other products can we buy that are Australian, and I don’t just mean Australian owned and manufactured, Because even foreign owned Australian located factories employ Australians.

To keep an even prospective, what was Australian made but is not now. You know, like good old Bonds and Blundstone.

Hey, and if you want to have a bitch session about the mongrels that have left our shores for cheaper pastures, don’t let me stop you.

Something that really gets up my nose is when you check out where the ingredients of a give product are scoured and it says “Made from local and imported ingredient”, so does this mean that is half and half or is it one drop of Australian orange juice for every 44 gallons of dumped Brazilian orange juice?

[Bigbjorn]

Well, I think greed is a big factor. I sell a lot of stuff that is made on automatic machinery and is virtually untouched by human hand and has minimal labour content. I get items made in Asia or Eastern Europe that are accurate and well finished and cost me 20% or less of the quotes from Oz manufacturers.

[Sprint]

a while back when Blundestone went from being made in Australia to made in china, the next time i needed a new pair of riggers boots, I looked at what was available, and the next comfiest were Ariat..... made in USA....

also found it amusing when friends brought back a Hawaiian shirt for me when they went on holiday...... FMD, it was actually made in Hawaii!!!!!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Try buying an Australian flag that's made in Australia.

[Disco_owner]

Try buying an Australian flag that's made in Australia.


I think they would be as rare as Hens Teeth and be very priccey.:D

[groucho]

Made in Australia

Our steel is even made with some imported iron ore and imported limestone
cast into slabs and sold overseas, Rolled into coil and products sold back
cheaper than we can do it here Go figure.
The truth is we are used to high wages and conditions
and simply, demand on price is the ruling factor.
We all don't want to have cheaper wages, but demand and profit rules.
The way of the world now, we have to get used to it, all whe winging won't change a thing. Supply, Profit and what the market will pay thats it in a nutshell.........

[JDNSW]

For years, many (most?) Australians have been pursuing objectives that have the effect, if not the intention, of making Australian products more expensive than imported ones (think high wages, high taxes on business, regulations of all kinds far more stringent than most places, red tape), and then single-mindedly buying the cheapest or at least best value.

But probably the biggest problem is that since the Whitlam era Australia has run interest rates far above most of the OECD. This has had two effects. The first and most obvious, is that it makes the Australian dollar higher valued (overvalued?), and hence makes imports cheaper. The second, and more insidious, effect, not generally recognised, is that it makes long term projects uneconomic - if you invest money this year for a return next year, to give the same return as an investment that returns money this year, it has to give an additional return of a year's interest. This may not seem like a major effect, but change the one year to several, or even a decade, and remember you then need to get interest on interest, and it is obvious that once the interest rate rises above about 5%, you can just forget anything that takes more than two or three years to start producing a return. This means that given the choice of replacing an old factory or moving overseas, there is no sensible choice, particularly when other factors are taken into account.

Again, Australians have only themselves to blame - the reason for the high interest rates is that Australians have historically refused to accept any other methods of controlling inflation. And most voters have welcomed a high Australian dollar - it makes imports (and import competing local goods) and overseas holidays cheaper. The only people who complain are those who are producing for export - and those are mostly farmers and miners, who have few votes and don't live in the major cities, and so can be ignored.

John

[clean32]

its just a bit of a round about. where the Napoleonic wars are promoted as an ideological war it was infact a economic war ( let them eat cake) then we follow with the second holy roman empire ( nothing roman or holy about it) again that was an economic war. WW1 again was an economic war but with a difference, rather than food it was manufacturing that was the underlying motivation. same again with WW2. the cold war again was economic with both the west and the soviets trying to control there markets.
but the change in a countries underlying economy is just a sign of a country growing up and in the case of australia we are lagging behind. as the economy moves from primary- manufacturing to service and financial the average standards of live and average life span improves.

put it another way, economy of scale, logistics all force manufacturing to the next cheeper country. if we look at Japan- cheep labour before. now that is not the case. Japan is now more expensive than australia but then again how much manufacturing is now done in Japan? how many Japanese cars on australian roads are actually made in japan? not that many.
the countries today that are doing the manufacturing will not be doing so in 15 years, manufacturing would have moved on to the next cheeper climate ( india then africa )

[drivesafe]

Well, I think greed is a big factor. I sell a lot of stuff that is made on automatic machinery and is virtually untouched by human hand and has minimal labour content. I get items made in Asia or Eastern Europe that are accurate and well finished and cost me 20% or less of the quotes from Oz manufacturers.

Hi Brian, I’m not sure what you mean by greed when compering Australian manufacturing with what is no better than slave wages in other countries.

No matter how yo look at it, we have one one highest living standards in the world. We will only keep these high living standards if we keep being paid the wages we get and it’s not just wages to factor into the final cost of something made here.

We have sick pay, they don’t in China, we have unemployment benefits via the taxes and wages associated with products made here, they don’t in China.

We have long service, they don’t in China.

We have retirement schemes, they don’t in China.

And so on and this is why these countries can afford to make think so ridiculously cheap, it’s done at the expense of the work force.

And don’t think that they can’t manufacture goods to the same high standards that we do, but is strange that when they do, particularly with things like high tech electronics, their final price is not much lower than ours.

There is one very bright light at the end of the tunnel. In most cases, each country that starts out with cheap labour forces and hence cheap products, usually ends up with over priced labour cost that eventually prices their products out of the world market and there are plenty of examples of this.

After the second world war, Japan was in ruins and it was the Korean war that give them a jump start, manufacturing munitions for the yanks.

With new factories, they set about turning out elcheapo copies of other country’s products.

As more and more people found work and became skilled, because it was harder to find new workers, the different companies had to offer better wages and Japan eventually got to the stage where their wages were so high that it was far cheaper for the Japanese companies to go off shore.

They went to places like Korea, where in a decade or two the same problem occurred and I can remember see riots at factories in Korea about 10 years ago because the Korean owners had sacked loads of korean works and move production off shore where the labour was cheaper. They moved their production to the UK.

This same effect is already happening in China, and while it’s not yet a case of cheaper labour off shore, what is happening is that people have been coming to the major centres for country areas, to find work.

When they get there UNPAID holiday break around the Chinese New Year, these workers can only afford to go home.

After the break, the factories fine they have a shortage of workers because when they have gone home, they find that new factories have been built in their areas and as they are skilled labourers, they easily get jobs in these new factories and the only way the factories in the major centres can keep staff, is to offer them much higher wages.

This wage hike is actually happening faster in China then it ever did in Japan or Korea so it won’t be long before it happens in India and so on.

[clean32]

India is already ramping up Fast but they have the advantage of a better education system and logistics, free market polices and a much hight level of english, there only problem is location.
China is advancing because it easy for china to get there products to a large market IE USA, in europe the chinese manufacturing is not so noticeable just because its harder to get there products there and they have to compete with the likes of romania Turkey etc these problems will be bigger for india.

[groucho]

Bottom line is yes we are lucky to have sick pay. long service
holiday loading and all.
Where dose it come from? The employer and or the government
Some body has to fill the tin. Profit and market place sets the bottom line.
Back to subject, it is hard to find a totaly Australian Product.
They are still around but price rules the market place
Dont get me started on over seas Quality............

[81stubee]

the countries today that are doing the manufacturing will not be doing so in 15 years, manufacturing would have moved on to the next cheeper climate ( india then africa )

So where does it end, where does manufacturing moved too, once everyone has had a crack? I think one of the Key issues is no-one is prepared to take the risk of looking forward 50 years! Can hardly blame them, they will only get undercut by someone willing to do it cheaper.

Dad used to be run a small manufacturing business, and 2 years ago shut-up shop, because of the conditions and red-tape involved. He constantly complains about how nothing is made in Australia anymore, yet he goes down to Bunnings and buys stuff from there. What percentage of Bunnings products would be made in Oz?


Stu

[groucho]

So where does it end, where does manufacturing moved too, once everyone has had a crack? I think one of the Key issues is no-one is prepared to take the risk of looking forward 50 years! Can hardly blame them, they will only get undercut by someone willing to do it cheaper.

Dad used to be run a small manufacturing business, and 2 years ago shut-up shop, because of the conditions and red-tape involved. He constantly complains about how nothing is made in Australia anymore, yet he goes down to Bunnings and buys stuff from there. What percentage of Bunnings products would be made in Oz?


Stu


Thats the 64 dollar question where is it going to end.
Red tape would be a start

Market demands rule that's it...........

[Chucaro]

HERE (http://www.jussemper.org/Resources/Labour%20Resources/labourdata.html#) is a good site with good date regarding wages world wide

[clean32]

HERE (http://www.jussemper.org/Resources/Labour%20Resources/labourdata.html#) is a good site with good date regarding wages world wide

that is good, but it didn't seem to take into account the social responsibility that different manufacturing or industries have to provide or fund. for example medical, in aussie this is funded ver tax and directly. many different countries require that the employer funds directly, this example seems not to have been taken into account. there is also many countries that do not have income tax, the governments gaining revenue from import export and companies tax and or are the major owners of industry or business.

[clean32]

Thats the 64 dollar question where is it going to end.
Red tape would be a start

Market demands rule that's it...........

well it will never end but it will scale down, Manufacturing unlike from the 1860 - 1970s is not the economic force it once was, finance is the economic force of the day. resources will be the force in the future. ( australia being well placed if its not wasted)
Look economies work ( over simplified) of how fast the money moves around, not how much money there is. example there is only $123.00 USD for every US citizen and only $64.00 AUD for every australian citizen. based on that a cash economy just can not work, well not unless you wish to go back to the mid 1800s and a life span of 47 years.

ok look at it this way, a chinese factory worker earns $1000 a month, the same worker doing the same job in Australia is earning say $4000 a month plus on costs of Leave holidays leave loading say about 10% for arguments sake. so that makes 4400 you get to spent. OR do you? well actually you doint, income tax comes off first say 30% then GST and a few other taxs we pay and our buying power is down to about 50% of what you actually earn. The chinese worker has none of this so what was a disparity of 4X is now only 2X. but there is more. the aussi company has to pay more tax and insurance that the chinese factory hasn't have to even think about. Insurance, work cover, public liability, Vehicle insurance payroll tax etc etc. if take all this into account there is virtually no real income difference between the chinese worker and the aussie worker. where the real difference is is that the difference in manufacturing costs ends up in the governments coffers. is that a bad thing? i think not i mean would you wish to live and rase a family in a country with no environmental controls? police who are paid 30K a year? roads in the center of town that are none just a collection of pot holes?

[clean32]

So where does it end, where does manufacturing moved too, once everyone has had a crack? I think one of the Key issues is no-one is prepared to take the risk of looking forward 50 years! Can hardly blame them, they will only get undercut by someone willing to do it cheaper.
Stu

good question, England and the Rhineland were the major manufacturing centers for about 100 years, then the USA for about 30 years, Japan 20, Taiwan 15, Korea 10, so i give china 10 years at the most, as i posted above china is already coming under threat from the likes of india. thats what is adding to chinas fever in trying to lock up the resources around the world.

you will also notice that a lot of manufacturing has returned to Europe as well as in australia we have the advantage us being surrounded by a bit of water.

The point i am trying to make is each time the weight of manufacturing shifts it becomes larger in volume but not larger as a percentage, because the total manufacturing market or consumer market id growing as well. Including the country that the manufacturing has been moved to. it has cheep labour because is has no real consumer market. but it isn't long before the factory workers want what they are making so effectively the advantages of manufacturing in that country is eroded as the workers require higher rewords for there efforts. as this wave works around the world lifting each economy to comparable levels then we will see manufacturing move back to closer to the consumer ( as economy of scale and cost advantages are eroded )

[EchiDna]

Sorry Drivesafe, your knowledge of Chinese labour laws and employee expectations dates from 15 years go. In the country areas where people tend to be self employed, they don't get sick leave, they don't get retirement benefits and they don't get long service leave... but wait - since when did your average Aussie farmer get sick leave? long service leave? yeah they used to get a pension, but those days are long gone and now any retirement fund is SELF funded...

in the city, they get every benefit you mentioned unless they are absolutely the bottom rung of the work force - those guys get exploited, but as there are another 800 million or so people willing to take their place happily, the employers can get away with it.

[cookiesa]

Two huge differences', as much as we complain about waiting times etc (and there are exceptions, but as a whole) if you are seriously ill you can go to a hospital and get treated, not based on IF you have health insurance or what balance you have left on your visa card but based on you being an Australian resident. (and to my knowledge we don't usually refuse treatment to non Australians) There is also an education system available which again, while not perfect is pretty good.

And as a side note.. ARB is mostly Australian manufactured. (Of the ARB products of course) Interesting to note that for a while the dakar and australian made leaf springs were run along side each other..... guess which one people were willing to buy and which ones have now gone due to market forces? Yep, the Australian made ones were to dear.

[juddy]

You will never be able to compete with the likes of China, who Mass produce things with vast army's of workers, who get paid very little, and the consumer is the one who drives the market for cheaper goods, and in these times people will want even cheaper things.

where i used to live in England our village had a steel works that was built in the valley ( around 5 miles in length ) original founded by a chap called Samuel Fox, in its heyday over 20,000 people worked there ( British Steel ), when china, Japan, India., came on the screen the work force had a big nose dive, and think there's only around 300 who work there now, they make specialist steels, and alloys, something that the others cant compete with.

I also think people don't mind paying for something, that is of good quality. i still have tools my grandad used 70 years ago, you will not be saying that about Chinese stuff in years to come.

[JamesH]

Globalisation is a terrible thing if you don't like promoting efficiency, economic development and world peace.

Whether you believe that climate change, or virus's or other religions represent our greatest threat, it is lack of money that will get us in the end because it takes money to solve problems.

What is good for Bonds' bottom line is good for Australia. Profits build hospital wings, universities, and other infrastucture. Losses build poverty.

Like many who can afford to indulge their aesthetic preferences regarding where certain things I buy come from, I like my boots to come from Adelaide, my shoes to come from Northampton (UK), and my cars to come from Solihull (though I could be convinced to shift to Crewe or Newport Pagnell if I won lotto). I'd like my headlight wiring upgrade to come from Queensland and my dual battery system too when I need another one, but I don't really care where the components come from. That's not an esthetic decision though, I'm paying for the expertise and quality control.

[Bigbjorn]

Hi Brian, I’m not sure what you mean by greed when compering Australian manufacturing with what is no better than slave wages in other countries.

No matter how yo look at it, we have one one highest living standards in the world. We will only keep these high living standards if we keep being paid the wages we get and it’s not just wages to factor into the final cost of something made here.

We have sick pay, they don’t in China, we have unemployment benefits via the taxes and wages associated with products made here, they don’t in China.

We have long service, they don’t in China.

We have retirement schemes, they don’t in China.

And so on and this is why these countries can afford to make think so ridiculously cheap, it’s done at the expense of the work force.

And don’t think that they can’t manufacture goods to the same high standards that we do, but is strange that when they do, particularly with things like high tech electronics, their final price is not much lower than ours.

There is one very bright light at the end of the tunnel. In most cases, each country that starts out with cheap labour forces and hence cheap products, usually ends up with over priced labour cost that eventually prices their products out of the world market and there are plenty of examples of this.

After the second world war, Japan was in ruins and it was the Korean war that give them a jump start, manufacturing munitions for the yanks.

With new factories, they set about turning out elcheapo copies of other country’s products.

As more and more people found work and became skilled, because it was harder to find new workers, the different companies had to offer better wages and Japan eventually got to the stage where their wages were so high that it was far cheaper for the Japanese companies to go off shore.

They went to places like Korea, where in a decade or two the same problem occurred and I can remember see riots at factories in Korea about 10 years ago because the Korean owners had sacked loads of korean works and move production off shore where the labour was cheaper. They moved their production to the UK.

This same effect is already happening in China, and while it’s not yet a case of cheaper labour off shore, what is happening is that people have been coming to the major centres for country areas, to find work.

When they get there UNPAID holiday break around the Chinese New Year, these workers can only afford to go home.

After the break, the factories fine they have a shortage of workers because when they have gone home, they find that new factories have been built in their areas and as they are skilled labourers, they easily get jobs in these new factories and the only way the factories in the major centres can keep staff, is to offer them much higher wages.

This wage hike is actually happening faster in China then it ever did in Japan or Korea so it won’t be long before it happens in India and so on.

Well, I was specifically thinking of taps and dies from which I make the majority of my living. Standard sizes are made in production runs of tens of thousands on automatic machines. Labour content is minimal no matter where in the world they are made. I get stock that has been made in places like Poland, FYR Macedonia, India, China at a fraction of the prices charged by the Australian manufacturers. Don't get me started on the quotes from the Oz manufacturers for "specials", obsolete and "no longer available" sizes. I have had some of these made as one-offs by a toolroom in New York for 20% including air mail of the quotes by locals. Local manufacturers don't want to know about a production run of specials of less than 200 units. The Chinese manufacturer I use will do them in lots of ten.

[Redback]

Traxide products

Draggin Jeans

Barkbusters

Mongrel Boots

Redback Boots

Sharkcat boats

Bush Bandicoots

Punani under garments

Two Sheep (for two feet)

Ian Harold boots

Just to name a few:D

[PSi]

As a foreign tourist visiting Australia, I was determined to but Made-in-Australia souvenirs but a stuffed kangaroo toy was about 10 times the price for a comparable size made elsewhere (not just China, some from eatsern Europe).
So I bought a smaller Oz-made wombat and lots of China-made koalas to give away at the office.
I did get an Akubra, which I wear proudly on offraod trips but the ignorant gits I hang out with say it looks great but think it's an American cowboy hat :mad:

[spudboy]

.... i still have tools my grandad used 70 years ago, you will not be saying that about Chinese stuff in years to come.

Lucky if you get 70 days out of them!

[Basil135]

I have three things at home, that I know exactly where, and when & how they were made.;)

All 3 were made at home, born & bred in Australia.

That would be my daughters...:D :p (Although 1 is a Victorian, but we try not to mention that too often)