Difficulty with Fairey Overdrive

[LandyDude]

Hi Everyone

I have a 69' 2A (aka "Arthur") that I have been trying to fit a Fairey overdrive to. I am getting some strange noises and am hoping somone might be able to give sone guidance as to what the problem might be.

Arthur didn't come with the overdrive, I was fortunate enought to be able to find a guy that had two Faireys. I bought both with the hope that I could end up with one good one.

Taking what I believe is the better of the two units, I had unit checked out and the bearings in it replaced (by a professional local engineering firm). On the bench it appears to turn smoothly. (The bearing on the clutch sleve was also replaced).

Fitting the unit the Arthur also went smoothly. I found online a PDF the original Fairey fitting instructions manual and it all went as described without problem.

Unfortunately driving was a different story :(

The positive is that it works, but it makes a lot strange noises doing so.:confused:

When disengaged, its not too bad when you take of and drive accelerating. But when you back off, it makes a hell of a racket. I don't know how to best describe the noise, but it a loud whine, a bit like a jet engine. Accelerate a bit and noise goes away, but it does come back as you speed up but not as bad as when you back off.

When the unit is engaged, its get noiser (not as loud as when you back off). The noise is still there when you back off.

I took the unit off and put back the original high gear, and everything was back to normal (as it was before the overdrive).

Put the overdrive back in and the bad sounding noises are back.

I drove around with the floor off to try and get a better idea where the noises are coming from. Whilst it I found it a bit hard to tell, it seems that the overdrive itself doesn't seem to be the source of the noises. They seem to come from the area where it engages with the output from the gearbox and the transfer case.

The overdrive seems to work ok, but the noises just don;t seem right. I understand the will be more noise and so was expecting to hear the extra whine etc., but ther level of noise I think is above what you would consider normal, especially the very bad sounding noises when you back off.

I don't know if its a clue or not, but in the overdrive manual there is a reference inthe fitting instructions (step 9) to "ensure that the distance piece and shim (if fitted) are re-assembled in the order shown.". I dont have what appears to be a distance piece and shim fitted. I wonder if this has anything to do with it? And if it does, where I could even get them?

I don't know what else I can describe.

I hope someone out there has some ideas about what the noise problems and what I could do or try to fix them.:confused:

--Elvin

[101 Ron]

Most likely gear whine.
The gear on the overdrive has done miles on another transfercase and has worn a certain way.
When you put the overdrive in you have two different gears that have not worn in together and therefore you get noise.
there is little you can do about it.(except for fitting new transfercase and overdrive gears)
If all checks out .....then just drive it and live with the extra noise.

[JDNSW]

As 101 Ron says. But check whether the operating mechanism is touching the bodywork (I had to shorten the screw on the side of the transmission tunnel which was touching the bracket for the lever). If anything is touching the body it will make it a lot noisier.

If there is slight wear on the output shaft of the overdrive where it rotates on the input shaft, or the input shaft is slightly worn, even if the needle roller bearing was replaced, it will still allow the output gear to move slightly out of line, resulting in the noise you hear.

John

[LandyDude]

Thanks 101 Ron & John

I compared the gear on the overdrive with the one I removed from the gearbox output.

The one from the gearbox looks much newer and is in very good condition. I guess it's probably been changed at somepoint in Arthur's life.

The one on the overdrive isn't bad, but is comparatively worn. The edges of the teeth are a bit rounded.

I can imagine replace the overdrive's gear would be very expensive, and maybe not possible to even get hold of on.

I wonder if I should ask the engineering firm that changed the bearings to see if they can do something that would make the o/d gear mesh the same way as the gear I pulled off (using it as a template), without having to go to the expense end effort of also replacing the transfer case gear?

--Elvin

[JDNSW]

Thanks 101 Ron & John

I compared the gear on the overdrive with the one I removed from the gearbox output.

The one from the gearbox looks much newer and is in very good condition. I guess it's probably been changed at somepoint in Arthur's life.

The one on the overdrive isn't bad, but is comparatively worn. The edges of the teeth are a bit rounded.

I can imagine replace the overdrive's gear would be very expensive, and maybe not possible to even get hold of on.

I wonder if I should ask the engineering firm that changed the bearings to see if they can do something that would make the o/d gear mesh the same way as the gear I pulled off (using it as a template), without having to go to the expense end effort of also replacing the transfer case gear?

--Elvin

The gear is available from Rovers Down South in New Orleans, but is, as you guessed, very expensive. One suggestion I can make is that you check the condition of the idler shaft and needle rollers bearings in your transfer case - any wear here will allow the idler gears to move slightly out of mesh, and become noisy. They can be replaced in situ.

John

[isuzurover]

The whine may reduce as the gear beds in.

Faireys usually whine quite a bit when engaged, however are usually quiet when disengaged.

What is the gear like on your 2nd fairey? It isn't too difficult to swap them over.

[LandyDude]

The gear is available from Rovers Down South in New Orleans, but is, as you guessed, very expensive. One suggestion I can make is that you check the condition of the idler shaft and needle rollers bearings in your transfer case - any wear here will allow the idler gears to move slightly out of mesh, and become noisy. They can be replaced in situ.

John

Thanks John. You're right, I had a look at the price on the Rovers Down South web site and the gear costs more than what I paid for the o/d :eek:

I will look into your suggestion on the idler and bearings. In reading the workshop manual its not a quick job, but as you say can be done in situ.

My inital concern is if the noises are going to lead to some damage. I'm planning a longer trip next month and figure if there is any risk in it packing it in when outback I'm better off with out the o/d even if the trip is a bit slower ;) Who needs to drive faster than 75 kph anyway...

~Elvin

[LandyDude]

The whine may reduce as the gear beds in.

Faireys usually whine quite a bit when engaged, however are usually quiet when disengaged.

What is the gear like on your 2nd fairey? It isn't too difficult to swap them over.

Thanks Ben

I cleaned up what I thought was the better of the two units. But I think I should fit the other one and see how it compares. If it makes less noise, maybe I should swap the o/d output gear (if the thinking its the bit not meshing right with the transfer case input gear) or I go and reco all the bearings in that unit too and use it instead. The reason I chose the other o/d to fix up was because its synchro ring looked like it was in better condition. Seems I didn't pay enough attention to the output gear.

I'm hoping I can make something good without having to get into pulling bits out of the gearbox or tranfer case as that appears to be a lot more work and no so easy to do on the workbench :)

~Elvin

[akelly]

Hi Dude,

I think your noise is (as already mentioned) the meshing of the o/d input with the T'case. Not much to add on that...

However - I learned from harsh experience to carry all the parts needed to remove the o/d with me at all times (the stuff you removed to install the o/d). I smeared it all in grease and wrapped it up in an old shirt - that is carried in my tool box. When the input gear or sleeve does go (and eventually one will) you are buggered without the original bits (include a new lock tab as well).

On the T'case idler - it is a very easy job that takes about an hour. I did mine out in the street last year. I replaced the entire gear and bearings as the old gear was very pitted - resulted in a huge reduction in gear whine (unrelated to the o/d).

Cheers,

Adam

[LandyDude]

Hi Dude,

I think your noise is (as already mentioned) the meshing of the o/d input with the T'case. Not much to add on that...

However - I learned from harsh experience to carry all the parts needed to remove the o/d with me at all times (the stuff you removed to install the o/d). I smeared it all in grease and wrapped it up in an old shirt - that is carried in my tool box. When the input gear or sleeve does go (and eventually one will) you are buggered without the original bits (include a new lock tab as well).

On the T'case idler - it is a very easy job that takes about an hour. I did mine out in the street last year. I replaced the entire gear and bearings as the old gear was very pitted - resulted in a huge reduction in gear whine (unrelated to the o/d).



Thanks Adam

I reckon I'll have a crack at that t/c idler... I better go get some parts.

For the drive up to Cameron Corner I'm planning for next month, if I do get the o/d going ok .. I reckon I'll take out that insurance policy and take the old gear too ;)

~Elvin

[LandyDude]

Good news on the overdrive, after much stuffing around, replacing bearings etc. I've managed to get one of my overdrives going fairly well now. Don't such wierd noises when backing off, and when not engaged things are reasonably "quiet".

When engaged I get a bit of a whine, which I understand is a symptom of the Fairey anyway.

I've read a bit that people have put in oil stabilizers to address some of the O/D problems, in particular Morey's oil stabilizer.

What opinion do people have out there on Morey's or other oil stabilziers? Do they make any difference?

Is it a good idea to put it in all three gearboxes (main, transfer and O/D) ? Also in the diff?

Since my engine main bearing seal likes to leak, I don't think I'd bother with it in there as I can't see it making a difference and it would just leak/thin out anyway :(

(PS. Thanks for all the guidance you've all been giving on my O/D)

[JDNSW]

I run Moreys in my overdrive, but I don't think it really makes a significant difference. Note that one thing I have done is to extend the breather up about three centimetres to stop it chucking oil out - I enlarged and tapped the hole and fitted several brass fittings topped by an axle breather fitting off a Series. Seems to have stopped it, although I have just replaced the gasket on the top plate, which was leaking.

John

[LandyDude]

I run Moreys in my overdrive, but I don't think it really makes a significant difference. Note that one thing I have done is to extend the breather up about three centimetres to stop it chucking oil out - I enlarged and tapped the hole and fitted several brass fittings topped by an axle breather fitting off a Series. Seems to have stopped it, although I have just replaced the gasket on the top plate, which was leaking.

John

Thanks John. I might look at doing the same, see if I can find something the shed I can use for a breather. I might not be able to go so high as I have a tool box tray in the middle seat which comes down about 4 inches. It's got plenty of clearance to the gearbox as it is but will have to see if how high I can go.

[JDNSW]

Thanks John. I might look at doing the same, see if I can find something the shed I can use for a breather. I might not be able to go so high as I have a tool box tray in the middle seat which comes down about 4 inches. It's got plenty of clearance to the gearbox as it is but will have to see if how high I can go.

So have I! I did not give full details - there is a right angle bend screwed into the plate, then two nipples to carry it left to past the tool tray, then another right angle, then another two nipples, then the breather. Depleted my tin of brass pipe fittings, but it seems to work. I suspect it does not need to be very high, even a centimetre or so would probably help.

John

[Defender Mike]

Hi All,
I am about to fit a Fairey O/D i picked up on Ebay to my 1958 Series 1 109 inch ute. I see mentioned that oil get chucked out of the breather which is just a split pin by the looks. Do they also leak oil into the T/fer case . I read above to always carrry the original parts and will do this just in case. Any other info or tips greatly appreciated.
Mike:)

[Johnno1969]

Hey Elvin,

If you do end up doing any more work on the overdrive itself, I managed to source all the parts when I reconditioned mine (mind you, I still haven't used it yet...) - and I got a lot of them substantially cheaper than mobs like Rovers Down South charge (some expensive items were literally one third of the "usual" price people quote).

I can't add much more than those who have already replied - except that I know a good type of soundproofing as well...

Send me a PM if you need any of the info.

Cheers,

John

[Johnno1969]

Hi All,
I am about to fit a Fairey O/D i picked up on Ebay to my 1958 Series 1 109 inch ute. I see mentioned that oil get chucked out of the breather which is just a split pin by the looks. Do they also leak oil into the T/fer case . I read above to always carrry the original parts and will do this just in case. Any other info or tips greatly appreciated.
Mike:)

Yep, they sure do. Mine used to spit oil into the transfer, which caused the transfer to overflow out past the rear output seal. Hopefully with a new seal it'll be better (and a number of years ago I put in a larger breather with a raised breathing pipe, as already mentioned in other posts, which helps to keep the external spill and over-pressurisation down).

Cheers,

John